Is a CS Deg Needed to Make Game Soundtracks? 45
Kurtiz666 asks: "A good friend of mine has his bachelor's in music composition - he wants to score game soundtracks for a living. He's a very good composer but has had difficulty breaking into the industry, doing only occasional work like soundtracks for plays and such. He thinks getting a CS degree will help him and is making plans to go back to school, but I'm not entirely convinced he needs this degree. I don't want to sound like his mother or anything, but I also don't want him to waste 2 years on school if he doesn't have to. So, how do you break into the game soundtrack field? Are there any software skills you recommend, and is a CS degree really necessary?"
My experience (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't done large scale soundtracks for games, only smaller stuff (and not on anything that became a big completed product), but based on my experience, and what I've seen in the industry, he's on the right track with just doing plays and whatever he can. I've done scores for a couple theatrical productions, and having that on your resume will prove your ability to write music to supplement drama and action better than a CS degree.
My advise: don't get the CS degree. Keep doing music. Participate in small projects on the side of your regular occupation.
I've also heard that starting out just running mail and doing intern work is a great way to get your foot in the door at game dev shops.
Re:My experience (Score:2)
Breaking into the game industry is the same as breaking into the film industry: it's not about what you know as much as who you know. And networking (in this sense) falls squarely
Shy & stuff (Score:1)
not just to get a job (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't think so... (Score:3, Insightful)
Better places to ask: (Score:4, Informative)
vgmix.com
etc?
Seems they would know better than
Find an OSS game (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Find an OSS game (Score:2)
By who? People that have no involvment or pull in commercial game production? And how would that help this guy who, obviously wants to work for the likes of EA?
Re:Find an OSS game (Score:2)
Re:Find an OSS game (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
What on earth does game soundtrack composition have to do with computability, context free grammars, operating system resource allocation, space and time complexity analysis, etc? The entire premise of the question is insane.
It sounds like this person thinks that CS is where you go to learn to use a computer. That would be like sending an aspiring painter to get a degree in physics so he could learn to use a paintbrush.
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
There are plenty who think a degree in science doesn't prevent science fiction
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
There are also plenty of IT workers with degrees in English...
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
Yes (Score:2, Funny)
The Wizard of Oz to the Scarecrow: I can't give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma.
Re:well (Score:2)
You go to law school.
<muppet voice="gonzo">
Sure, if you wanna do it the easy way!
</muppet voice="gonzo">
Subconscious copying (Score:2)
You go to law school.
This is unfortunately more true than you may think. If you want to compose music for commercial purposes, you'll need an understanding of the law if you want to avoid having people sue you for copyright infringement through subconscious copying [slashdot.org].
need experience (Score:1)
Absolutely not. Unless.... (Score:2)
=Brian
As a musician... (Score:4, Informative)
Another thing to do is learn how to write music on as many different audio apps as possible, as well as with physical instruments like guitar, keyboard, drums, etc. If someone asks you to come in and write music using a Jeskola Buzz Machine http://www.buzzmachines.com/ [buzzmachines.com], you need to already know how. You also need to understand mixing and mastering and need to know how to use analog and digital recording equipment. Mixing isn't too difficult but mastering really takes talent and skill.
Basically, he needs to shell out some cash on music equipment and software instead of on a degree. If he insists on going to school, he needs to go to a school like Full Sail http://www.fullsail.com/ [fullsail.com] that actually offers courses that would be relevant to the field.
In the 70's and 80's maybe, but not now... (Score:2)
Now there are no practical limitations to sound hardware. There's almost no reason for a good composer to understand anything about the hardware their composition will be playing on. In some extraordinary cases, I suppose, it might be useful to know that a particular sound subsystem can only manage 128 voices instead of 256, or on
Re:In the 70's and 80's maybe, but not now... (Score:2)
Re:In the 70's and 80's maybe, but not now... (Score:1)
There's almost no reason for a good composer to understand anything about the hardware their composition will be playing on.
Unless the composer wants to create custom instrument patches for a given piece of synthesis hardware instead of relying on a hackneyed "General MIDI" package provided by the console maker.
In some extraordinary cases, I suppose, it might be useful to know that a particular sound subsystem can only manage 128 voices instead of 256
Nintendo DS has 16 voices, and sound effects an
HELL NO! (Score:2)
Here's all you need to do: spend 10 years making soundtracks for free or cheap for every game you possibly can until someone "discovers" you. Alternately, move to where video games are made, take any job at any company so you can get in the building and f
I've been in the games industry since 1995... (Score:2)
The sound designer makes sound effects and music. The programming staff integrates the sound assets, usually using a 3rd party library like Miles. All the sound designer needs to know is how to make music and save it in certain formats. They're never anywhere near the code, and usually that's just fine with them.
If your "friend" is having a hard time getting into the gaming industry he would be better se
Limitations of the format (Score:1)
All the sound designer needs to know is how to make music and save it in certain formats.
Except sometimes it's useful for the sound designer to know the technical rationale behind some of the limitations of the format. For instance, if the format allows only 8 voices or 1 MB of instrument samples per song, it would be useful for the sound designer to know why (Nintendo DS has 16 voices and 4 MB of RAM). That still doesn't need a CS degree.
A friend of mine had the same problem! (Score:3, Funny)
Took him 12 years to become a gynacologist, but it was worth it. That man's name? Michael Bolton.
Didn't he end up in some office? (Score:2)
Don't forget to network (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been working in computers since 1986, in computer audio since 1993, and I know a fair number of people in the game industry.
In my experience, I have never gotten a job that was worth a damn without having contacts on the inside. Never. I have had crummy jobs that I applied for randomly, and I have had cool jobs that I got because I knew someone. Maybe this makes me lame, but I suspect it makes me typical.
Make friends in the game industry, or at least also trying to get in to the game industry. You don't even need to know them in person; this is the era of the Internet. The goal is that sooner or later they'll be in the meeting where the project manager at their game company says "Okay we're shipping in two weeks; it's time to add the music", they'll be able to say "I know this guy..."
They don't even need to be high up in their company. I started at Creative Labs working tech support. Within a few years, I had moved around in the company to marketing, and I was in the meeting where my boss said "We need someone to compose some music for our web site." We hired Paul Godwin [be-in.com] because someone in that meeting knew him.
You have a web page up with at least snippets of some of your compositions up, right? If you can't find an open source game to help out with, turn off your PC speakers and compose some music for a game that already exists! Put 'em on your site arranged by genre: fps, rts, driving, puzzle, whatever.
In addition to a sharp looking site, you need to have some demo CDs. I bet you can make even the little business-card CDs in redbook format. I'd make 'em redbook with small song segments since you will be limited to 8-10 minutes of music. You can make them mixed-mode if you feel like, but I bet redbook with a nice printed label with your name and URL would suffice. You don't need to press them on everyone you meet, but keep them around.
If you don't already, spend some time learning about how the industry works. It may be boring and/or trite, but consider this: You meet someone who works for a publisher, and says "yeah we don't actually make any of the games ourselves." Dead end? Hardly! Maybe they don't make the games themselves, but they work with dozens of small software houses, each of which does need composers. "What titles are you publishing right now? Really, who is that by? Are you going to publish any future releases from them? You know I'd love to get in touch with someone there about composing some music for one of their titles."
Are you ready to be self-employed? Lots of small-time game operations are run on a shoestring. They're not going to need a properly-paid composer full time on staff. Get your state business license, come up with a nice looking invoice, learn how consulting contracts work.
And last, save your nickels and dimes, because next March 20-24, no matter what, you need to be here [gdconf.com].
Best of luck.
Chris O
San Carlos, California
Re:Don't forget to network (Score:2)
So you want to learn CS? (Score:3, Insightful)
S -> SAb
A -> BSa
B -> ACSa
C -> dSD
D -> BaSBA
Is this grammar capable of producing sentences of finite length?
Also, determine an upper bound on the time complexity for computing Ackermann's function. Describe the significance of this function in the context of algebras.
Next, demonstrate that the grammar of ANSI C is not context-free. What modifications to the grammar would you perform to cause it to be context-free? Is the resulting grammar LL(1)?
I hope you found all that to be interesting, fun, and relevant to music scoring, because that's what you'll be doing in Computer Science.
Re:So you want to learn CS? (Score:1)
I hope you found [formal grammars] to be interesting, fun, and relevant to music scoring, because that's what you'll be doing in Computer Science.
Except that if you're trying to cut off one song and start another without using a cheesy fadeout, you may need to have the machine compose a smooth transition between the two, and that can be modeled using rewrite rules.
Thanks for your replies (I'm the original poster) (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not the one trying to break into the gaming industry...I'm a graphic designer. Ask me anything about QuarkXpress and I'm probably able to answer it - kerning, tracking, tabs, keylines, all that geeky gd stuff. You don't have to believe me, that's fine. But thanks anyway, and thanks in advance to anyone posting advice after this.
Thi
A day of synchronicity (Score:2)
Reminds me of the one time I dropped acid and /. had a story titled "Periodicity, patterns and chemistry" :D
Find a good mod and write music for it! (Score:2)
Do so.
Then he can point people to the mod and say "I sacored that".
Re:uhh... (Score:1)
Videogame Degrees and other stories (Score:1)
Your friend should make himself familiar with the music formats used in videogames. Research the Ogg Vorbis audio format, an open source rival to MP3s, and one of the most used audio file formats in the gaming industry (any game developed using the Unreal Tournament and the Unreal 3.0 engine uses Ogg Vorbis). Learn to use Mod Trackers for mus
Sure it is... (Score:2)
What Wikipedia says: (Score:2)
Computer scientists study what programs can and cannot do (see computability