Computer Jobs -- How to Resign Professionally? 1080
MikeDawg asks: "I submitted a letter of resignation yesterday, and today I'm at home posting stories to my weblog and Slashdot. I gave my employer two weeks notice, and almost immediately, I had my accounts disabled, and my permissions revoked on all the computers at my work, which makes me unable to do anything in my position of being a 'Systems Analyst/Systems Administrator'. I spoke with the HR rep, and gave her my notice yesterday, then I spoke with her today about what had happened to my access, and they honored my resignation... 2 weeks early. (Luckily, I'm compensated in pay for the next two weeks). What I want to know is, how do you computer and IT professionals out there put in your notice of resignation (if you are with a permanent employer, and not contractual), and not get immediately shutdown, and shunned away from the computers? The CIO immediately thought I was going to do something terrible to the system, and destroy accounts, and any other activity that I have access to, but I was giving him notice that I was leaving. What is the professional thing to do?"
What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:4, Insightful)
I suppose its rather sad having such a low opinion of corporations, but I have seen them screw enough people to not be bothered by the mercenary attitude that I have now towards work. I contract so I get paid the hours that I work and to stop work intruding on the rest of my life.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's funny, because as an IT decisionmaker at a company, I have shunned contractors. Why? because it is my experience that contractors are in it for themselves regardless of the impact the have for the company that's giving them money.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:4, Interesting)
In many years of contracting I've always found it better to consider the impact on the company (price expectations, etc) as a factor in every job, and this has been rewarding in that when the company does well, I do well and continue to get to work with people that I enjoy a positive working relationship with.
I do avoid working for project managers with hostile outlooks though. Some managers are just unreasonable (wishing to exploit you as if you were slave labor) and not worth it. They are very easy to spot at the start for the most part.
A few of these are justifiably pessimistic, having been taken advantage of previously, these types are usually ok once they see you have the right work ethic, etc.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Insightful)
If the company has done its job, you don't need to be there. If you were to get hit by a bus, would the company survive? Probably? Then they'll get by without you. If they realize they need you desperately, you can consult.
Also, you are a liability. Even if you display no ill will toward the company, they can't be sure it's not an act.
To be professi
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Funny)
I resigned almost two weeks ago and still have two weeks left before my four week notice period is up.
I will continue to do my job cabably until the very end and won't be doing anything malicious, it is our corporate culture that people (even those in powerful/trusted positions) work to the very end of their contract.
I'm surprised how well the boss took me writing "I resign" on the whiteboard though.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
-AC
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:4, Insightful)
99% of employers? They'll have security escort you from the building. The severance is in lieu of notice, as in 'your employment is /severed/ at that point', and you have zero right to be there, and are actually trespassing.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Insightful)
After a certain period, severance pay is worth more than you'll get for your 2-week notice.
If you can get 2 months, why not? If they're treating you stupidly (locking you out of systems, etc., when you clearly could have done any nasty shit well in advance) rather than professionally, return the "favour". They have it coming.
The way they handled it might be SOP, but it doesn't mean its right or ethical. Nobody should be treated like a crook or a pariah. If they want to do that, let them PAY EXTRA for t
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Informative)
The lesson is: give a month notice next time, and hope they will do the same thing. I'd rather have a month's severance than 2 weeks.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:4, Insightful)
IT professionals have a lot of responsibility and a lot of power, and can seriously f-up a company with a few clicks.
You could make the same argument for senior management but somehow when they f-up the company they get a nice severance package from the board. I guess a few mil is a nice reward for running a company into the ground.
Hell, let's not even go there. Let's talk about grunt workers. In a lot of companies the janitors/maintenance are almost as powerful (if not more so?) as the IT staff. They have keys to everything, including (in all of the places I've ever worked) the server room. Sure, they can't screw the company over with a "few clicks", but an uber magnet and/or sledgehammer would probably have the same result.
I for one am tired of being treated like a criminal by paranoid employers. Like if he was going to screw them over he would have given two weeks notice and then screwed them over. And don't give me the "it's just business" argument. If it was just business he would have left without giving them any notice. Hell, if you are salaried just walk out the door at about noon. Odds are they'll have to pay you for the rest of the day. That's business.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
I couldn't disagree more. Speaking of professionalism, doing what the CIO did was probably just as professional as your resignation. There may be policies in place that dictate his actions, or more probably, your resignation ended your employ, and they took action to protect their assets.
As others have posted, you get paid for two weeks, so they show professionalism again by not trying to rob you of the pay for the two weeks notice you have given. However, expecting that you'll have carte blanche access to the systems during your two last weeks is a bit silly. Most people spend that time backing up code to personal computers or otherwise stealing IP belonging to the employer.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
If the management has _any_ brains, they realize you would have/could have committed nefarious acts _before_ giving notice. The termination of system access is absolutely _not_ personal. It will be mandated by policy in many places and in fact protects the person who gave notice. If you gave notice and something "bad" happened immediately afterwards, server crash, corrupt database _whatever, suspicion would naturally fall on, you the terminated employee, unless you had no access to the systems.
As someone else has said, just take the pay and smile for 2 weeks. Where I work, you wouldn't have got past security the next day... again, nothing personal, just policy.
2 good reasons for sending a leaver home on pay (Score:5, Informative)
1) Morale of other staff - There is nothing worse than hearing somebody tell you that grass is greener where they're going.
2) I knew that if I sent him home and there was a good chance that I'd find out within a month whether he had some vital knowledge that we needed. This would not be have been noticed if he had worked his notice period. If he did have knowledge or skills that we needed, better to find out during his notice period at home. If we call him while he is still on the payroll, he has a duty to respond.
"Corporate secrets" or "vandalism" were pretty low on my priority list to be honest. If this was going to happen, it had probably happened already.
Just drop off the key's, Lee... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Just drop off the key's, Lee... (Score:4, Interesting)
sure they will finally (and they have to) find someone who can do the job. but as it takes a while, none can really ban your accounts or do anything weird like that, beacuse they still need your support about the open issues. if or not you support them is another question, as i will leave my job hopefully under good friendship and conditions, i will give them some support for a while.
that's the state i'm currently in. i'm the only person around that really knows whats going on in our server, now i will have to support it for a while even after i leave (out of loyality, i will do it free for a while as long as it doesn't put any real pressure on me) and i will have to teach someone where to start learning the whole business.
i'm going to switch jobs because my current job doesn't really offer me any real chance to evolve nor any chances to make a longlasting career. i feel like i'm sitting duck on an old framework with old ideas for too long. the rest of the world is moving on and i'm not gonna sit here and wait until i'm an old crappled dude who knows only technologies that are 10 years old.
sitting duck in knowledge & not knowing if you're going to have the job even after 1-2 years is a really bad idea. (would you hire someone that knows msdos, win 3.1 & basic ? i guess not, neither would i.)
i hope my boss has sit down when i'm going to tell him about this (no, he is not going to like it). and i hope he'll be reasonable while discussing my terms of leave. and luckily, i am the bloody administrator, so he can't disable my accoutns without my help anyway
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Interesting)
Company policy isn't law. Would you refer to have selected correspondence presented as evidence against you in some dispute? Make email backups; actually paper prints are better, lawyers trust paper more than digital files. Don't announce it, just have them in reserve in case they try to bushwhack you. I presented some email in a wages dispute, the send timestamps showed I'd been at work (or at least doing work) when they claimed I had skipped out. (Yeah, sure they could have been faked easily, though they weren't.)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:4, Insightful)
Truth is, more than most other kinds of employees, software engineering and IT personnel are dangerous to have around if their loyalties are no longer squarely aligned with the organization's own. Could a janitor cause a corporation-wide dislocation in network operations? Could a mid-level manager insert a time-bomb into source for the company's latest product? Certain classes of employee, if so motivated, can produce negative impact that extends well beyond their immediate workgroups.
I agree with another poster, it's generally worse when a worker is fired than when he leaves of his own accord: but sometimes that leaving is motivated by issues that might cause him or her to do something stupid on the way out. The best thing a company can do is accept that the employee is no longer theirs, lock them out of any resources to which they had access, and escort them out of the building. In most cases that I know of, they are allowed to return to their office under supervision to retrieve their belongings. That is the most "professional" way to handle it. At that point, all that matters is whether the company honors its remaining obligations to that worker (severance pay, continuity of benefits, etc.)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Insightful)
The company should have just escorted him from the building and told him never to come back. Even if it was an office building and he was hanging out in the corridors, unless he has legitimate business there, the company is within its right to have him escorted out if he is disrupting productivity in any way.
Tip to the wise: don't try this at your work. They'll kick your ass out *and* give you a bad reference.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Informative)
I would be more surprised to hear anything else.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Interesting)
I worked at a company where one of the managers decided to move on. She was near the top, worked hard and was quite professional. Her mistake was in giving three months notice so they could work out a graceful exit.
She was fired on the spot, asked to leave the property and given the minimum statutory severance.
In my jurisdiction, once you've given notice you may be let go immediately provided the company pays severance. I knew I was leaving my job with that company for 6 months and didn't give notice till 2 weeks before. I would have loved to give them more time to plan for my replacement, but figured they'd just shaft me.
They went bankrupt a few years later. Sometimes you get what you deserve.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Interesting)
One employer left my key accounts in place (disabled) and hired me to do some consulting ("temp work", really) using those (re-enabled) accounts afterward.
The last place I quit amazed me at just how trusting they were: On my last day on the job (after giving notice), my boss, his managerial peers, and their boss were all unavailable, so I had to find a "responsible individual" in the department (a non-manager with more seniority than me) to give my keys to that afternoon. At the end of the day, I was actually left alone in the data center with both login and physical access to critical systems (to say nothing of the office kitchen and storage room). They trusted me to shut down my computer, turn off the interior lights, and lock the door behind me on the way out. (Which - considering that I was quitting in part because I hated how the place was run - was rather naive.)
Re:Australia isn't First World? (Score:5, Funny)
He said South Australia. It's different down there, and a little scary. They've named their cricket team after a spider and make beer out of sewage. Their main football team wears the German flag for a jumper, and the state capital was designed by an obsessive-compulsive.
They do brew one some of the best mass-production beers in the country (Coopers), but if you're ever invited to a keg party in a small SA town, run like hell.
Re:Australia isn't First World? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Insightful)
Then what's the point? If everyone at the company knows this is SOP, what does a company gain from immediately terminating someone upon recieving their resignation? It's not like they're terminating you at the moment you learned you were leaving.
Seems like a silly "security" measure to me.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
No supervisor, no HR flack and no VP ever got fired for running off an employee that gave notice. OTOH, there's a fair possibility that they could be fired if the employee did something grievious after giving notice.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Interesting)
Immediately ceasing access for staff who are leaving, as an example. Most people aren't going to do anything. If they've given you 2 weeks notice and you let them go straight away, you're spending the equivalent of 2 weeks wages to treat the risk they will. Depending on the company, many places are happy to accept that risk treatment cost.The risk is not just that they will trash their computer or your systems. They may also steal or misuse confidential data, like customer lists.
I know of one person in consulting, who planned to setup his own company, doing what he did for his current company, and had planned to send a goodbye email to all his corporate contacts saying he was now in practise for himself - at 75% the price. He however was similarly unaware, like the original poster, of his company's seperation practises, and was escorted from the building immediately after handing in his letter of resignation. Fortunately his old company never found out about this, so he got a good reference for when he went for a similar job at another company, unable to start his own firm.
I once saw a post on slashdot about how sad it was that the NSA would destroy entire machines that had never been out of their box, just because they had been designated as spares for their datacentre. Consider it another way.. the machines were 2 years old, purchased tax free in bulk, and depreciated down to a minimal value. The risk posed that they may have ever been used and had operational data meant that it made a lot of sense to destroy perfectly good hardware.
Anyway, the point is, risks aren't always as obvious as they seem, and risk treatment is an interesting beast. Sometimes you do things which look like waste in order to prevent threats.
(IANAL, but I am a risk management/it security consultant
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Interesting)
I work for a multi-national bank, and they do this all the time. They may spend millions over the course of a couple of years doing this, but this is what they are willing to pay to mitigate the possibility of even higher loss. There are some systems (I'm thinking of Fed Reserve and clearing house operations) that could cost that much over the course of a couple *hours* if they were disrupted (fines and/or actual loss). Even though internal controls make it unlikely to happen, the risk is still there and paying for 2 weeks of non-productivity is a small price to pay to reduce it.
This does not even take into account the *legal* problems a company would face if they allowed an out-going employee access and he/she disrupted operations to the point of major financial loss. It's called Due Care. And it can result in criminal charges being brought against the senior management. "So you knew the possibility existed, but still let this person have access?"
Don't be insulted. This is just SOP these days for any company with responsibilities to shareholders.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:4, Insightful)
If that employee was George from Seinfeld, controlled the world markets, and had just had a fight with his boss it might even be true. But really that person is moving, or found a better job, or has some totally non-hateful reason for leaving and planned to use the two weeks to wrap up their work, whose worst crime will be extra networking time with co-workers. Or, if they are malicious, they've likely got an IQ over 7 and they'll have already done whatever they were going to do.
In the end, you create a lot of ill-will within the professions that staff your company. That cog you fired can be replace with a call to HR, but that cog's co-workers and friends now don't see you as a good workplace. There appears to be a flood of tech workers, but some companies just can't seem to find anyone good... The real risk is that an overstuffed security nazi with a fetish for bureaucracy is destroying the assets of good-will, loyalty, industry reputation, and chasing away the R&D core of the business, those who should have the most invested in the company's future.
I've always given notice on a Friday, conforming for no real reason to the M-F business week, and I've cleaned up a bit. Nobody has been weird and canned me immediately, so no harm either way. But, listening to people like you has made me realize that the best time to give notice is monday at 11am, right after the weekend testers report and the project steering meetings, when I've got what feels like half of the shared files in the project open and checked out, and sixteen things and waiting on my simple yes-no. I figure, that way if you're nice, I keep working and wrap up everything happily, perhaps even trying to delay my new job to finish a project. But, if you aren't nice, I'm spared all the actual hassle of my week at work, still got the coffee and donuts, payed for the whole day, and I get to imagine you justifying the huge expense of everyone twiddling their thumbs because they're waiting on my bugfixes that I hadn't reassigned to anyone else, etc...
You see, these security nazis... their silly policies interfere with things they couldn't begin to contemplate, their interference can cause tons of PR problems, etc. Incalculable losses. Better to just fire them immediately. No thinking VP or HR manager ever keeps one of these loose cannons on staff. The potential liability is enormous.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ob Simpson's Quote (Score:5, Funny)
Marge: The plant called and said if you don't come in on Friday, don't bother coming in on Monday.
Homer: WooHoo! Four day weekend!
I've never encountered this "SOP" before (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the original poster did the right thing by giving notice.
Personally I've never had my system access shut off because I gave notice, but I did have it shut off before I was told I was laid off (many years ago.) However, as I've worked in a number of verticals I know there are a few that disable access to live systems, but let developers keep working during their notice period.
With live/production data, there are often regulations that would prohibit allowing a sysadmin to continue accessing the system after they've given notice. I realize it probably feels insulting to have your access shut off after acting like a professional and giving notice, but I wouldn't take it personally.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Funny)
A former place of employment was so bad, that when I was leaving on poor terms, I was asked (by the head of HR) for "all the passwords I knew". I had to explain that if I told them to him, I'd still know them and could use them. He was shocked when I informed him that his IS staff would have to figure out how to change a hundred passwords.
It was a great place to leave.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Interesting)
When Charles de Gaulle resigned from the French Presidency, his resignation letter was:
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
The real liabilities are our mistreatment of employees, and how the reaction to lack of respect and trust takes form from them. The majority of the time that an employee does something bad to his or her workplace, it's an act of revenge or bitterness because they wronged and feel disrespected. Contrary to popular belief people do not cause mayhem and mischeif to others for no reason.
What we really need to look at is the behavior of companies towards the people they employ, and the people they consider customers.
He's trying to deal with his feelings... (Score:5, Insightful)
What he's probably dealing with is the feeling of rejection: if they could drop him on a days notice was he really needed? He'll just have to be honest with himself about that but he will just have to get over that himself. Again its a standard business practice in many places and not a reflection of his character.
-everphilski-
Re:Liability (Score:5, Insightful)
Because someone, somewhere gave notice and then got mad during the last 2 weeks and did something nasty.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Interesting)
Agreed. The plethora of posts about how this is SOP and something to be expected amazes me. I have left my job twice this fa
huh? (Score:3, Funny)
What the hell world do you live in? I'd like to emigrate.
This is a GOOD thing (Score:5, Insightful)
The employer is doing themselves, but more importantly YOU a favor with this behaviour.
Why? Well besides the nice paid two weeks off, you are now officially not responsible.
If they didn't do this you are vulnerable to accusations at a later date if something goes wrong with a server that is traced to a point in time you were on your two weeks to bail.
Yes it's possible you could have sabotaged something before giving notice, and tough luck if they catch you at it. However you can't be held responsible for anything from the point of resignation onwards if removed as he described.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now FIRING SOMEONE... that's different. In that case, I compartmentalize them starting the day before, backing up anything that they can touch. I then shut off their machine after they leave, remove or lock accounts and remove their remote access if they had it.
This is all as much for their benefit as mine. If they had no means of access after they found out, no one can accuse them of anything.
I also ALWAYS offer to forward people's mail, though that's gotten harder in the last few years. Companies now feel that there's too much of a chance of mail being sent to their old account with proprietary information in it. Oh well.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Second, he is leaving. There is a reason for it. Is it the salary? Personal conflicts? The hours? Too little challenge, or too heavy a workload? Is there a problem with the social climate at the IT department? A good organization will want to know, and conduct exit interviews to see if there are points they should improve. Perhaps even catch a disaster in the making before it explodes in their faces.
Third, he is now an ex-employee. He will go out in the world and socialize with his peers at other companies - some of whom his previous employer may well want to hire at some point in the future. If his final impresion of the company is that of a bunch of posterior orifices, that's what he'll be telling people when they ask him about his opinion on applying for a position there. If, on the other hand, they do a good job of taking care of him up until the moment his contract ends, showing interest as above and so on, the impression will be vastly better, and they'll effectively be sending out a PR representative that will be giving a much better impression about the company for years to come.
So yes, there are very good reasons not to just cancel his passcard and give him thirty minutes to pack his personal belongings before having him escorted out by a rent-a-cop.
I wish it were like that... (Score:5, Insightful)
Resignation letters should never be more than:
No more need be stated. As a new person was starting the following Monday, it would have been smarter for me to stay those 2 weeks training the new guy. As it was, they get to do it themselves.It is almost impossible to actually explain fully and honestly why you're leaving without sounding bitter or nasty. Gee, Mr BossMan, I'm getting a 50% pay raise, 75% shorter commute, working with new technology, doing interesting (very not-boring) stuff, and the new place uses source code control too!
At least most places are not as bad as banks: if they overhear you talking about leaving, that will be your last day at work.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Insightful)
You'd be surprised how well such a "pre-resignation" would be handled. It also will give you a good chance to figure out how really important you are to the company.
The
Corporations as Psychopaths (Score:5, Interesting)
that's right... he isnt.
managers are just jackasses and dont have a grip on reality.
The reason being that the vast majority of corporations would be classified as criminal psychopaths if they were human beings [economist.com]. There is even a big documentary/movie [thecorporation.com] on this point [consciouschoice.com].
What's the question again? (Score:3, Insightful)
What I'd like to know is what didn't make the front page because this got posted instead?
Re:What's the question again? (Score:3, Insightful)
Stating the obvious, but... DING DING DING!
This happens everywhere, and is normal in IT. It's two extra weeks of paid vacation from somewhere you obviously didn't want to work anyway. What's the fucking problem?
Re:What's the question again? (Score:5, Interesting)
In every job I've had that I've left (five in the last 12 years), I've never had my access cut off until I actually leave. I've always worked until the last day, and I would be surprised if an employer didn't want me to. Mind you, I've never been fired, and in all but one case, I was actually on fairly good terms with my employer. I've never even heard of employers terminating access for people who are leaving of their own accord.
As a matter of fact, in most of the occasions I've left a job, I needed to keep access to the last minute to assist with a smooth handover of my work.
In a situation where an employee has notified their employer that they wish to resign, there is no security risk in letting them keep their access (and do their job) until they leave. If they were disgruntled and were going to do anything nasty, they would already have done it prior to tendering notice.
(It's a very different situation if the employee is let go, of course)
Re:What's the question again? (Score:3, Informative)
It's nothing personal, and it shouldn't be taken as such. It's all about risk management, not your relationship
My Experience (Score:3, Interesting)
You know what? In both situations my managers chose to sit on their hands and then gave me someone who was technically incompetent wit
Re:What's the question again? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any organisation that's going to be afraid of what their IT professional is going to do once they've decided to leave, and who is still under an employment contract has real problems. If you can't trust the people you employ when they're obligated to you, why can you trust them to stay when they haven't handed in their resignation?
Perhaps the culture is a little different in Australia, but I've never been locked out of a computer system just because I resigned. They've gotten every day's work out of me that they could - it was expected that I remain professional.
Honestly if someone's going to do damage to a company they'd just do it before they send their letter of resignation. If you can't trust your staff under the usual safeguards once they say they're leaving, you don't have a decent security policy to speak of anyway.
Access should be terminated on the last day of employment.
Re:What's the question again? (Score:5, Insightful)
Excuse me, but... where's the risk? Anything the OP wanted to do to "trash the system" could have been done before he handed his notice in. How does immediately cutting him off (and probably pissing him off in the process) decrease the risk?
it's not a professional or civilized world (Score:5, Insightful)
Up front Disclaimer: I am a disgruntled former employee of a Telco... laid off after 21 years
You, kind sir, proffered as professional a resignation as necessary. There are no reciprocal gaurantees, and in the IT field it is more typical than not for you to be treated nearly as if you were a criminal.
Systems you once managed for your employers now are at risk. Former peers are now potential spies. Do not be surprised to be treated like you have some sort of exotic, deadly, contagious disease. Don't expect anything for references other than affirmation you actually did work there.
This is the fine world of trust we have achieved as a civilised and evolved society. Trust not.
I will still always give professional courtesy (e.g., sufficient lead time for resignation) but I've left the corporate world with a sour aftertaste.... It sucks, that's just the way it is.
Re:it's not a professional or civilized world (Score:5, Informative)
Besides you should have disabled all those system account services that were going to detonate and take lots of things with them a year+ 1 month after your accounts were disabled BEFORE you put in your letter of resignation... they are there for sweet revenge in case of downsizing right?
Ok, all joking aside. When you tendered your letter you should have already had everything in order BEFORE you handed it in. All personal items already removed from your office/cubicle. All your code and porn backed up on a CD already in your possesion, your work computers sanitized and swept clean, your pet projects documented so the next guy can live with them for the 30 days he takes to rip them out and put his ideas in place instead..... etc...
It's not only IT, any professional job they hit you in the arse with the door the moment you resign. most companies have way too much sensitive or percieved sensitive information they they becom instantly paranoid about the second you announce you are becoming an "OUTSIDER".
I do strongly suggest anyone even thinking of resigning or outright quitting in a blaze of glory sanitize their workspace and machines, anything you leave behind will come back to haunt you later if it is something you are not proud to leave behind.
In a side note, any awards you may have won, It's not a bad idea to leave them behind at that empty desk. At your new workplace they will only serve to piss off your new coworkers and make your integration that much more difficult.
Re:it's not a professional or civilized world (Score:3, Insightful)
You know.....speaking of projects in progress and documentation...If they're going to cut you off from systems as soon as you give your letter, you might as well leave it undocumented. Particularly if you don't like the company and want to get back at them.
You see, they might need critical documentation from you...and if you're no longer an employee there, well...I'm
Re:it's not a professional or civilized world (Score:4, Interesting)
This is flawed thinking by the companies. The formal letter of resignation changes nothing since the employee is the one who will decide when to resign. The employee has already retired in his mind days or weeks before that.
If he is evil, the timebombs are already set up on the servers, the company data is already harvested, copied and distributed out of the building and the letter of resignation comes last. If he's not and his accounts and access rights are removed, he won't -- probably contrary to his expectations -- be able to properly finish off his work, document everything for the successor and clean up any irrelevant stuff like temporary and personal files. The next employee will step into a mess, and this is all bad for the company.
Sounds like you did the right thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Companies are rightfully paranoid that a departing employee -- particulalrly one with root access -- may decide to do something nasty on the way out the door. This doesn't mean that *you* would do this, just that they can't take a chance. Of course, if you had intended to do something nasty, you could easily have set it up before tendering your resignation. The best thing to do is act like a professional and understand that what is in your best interest and in the company's best interest are no longer related.
I would agree... (Score:3)
Part of the problem with the popular alternative (role-based computing, where a designated operation is associated with one or more designated roles, and - ideally - no superuser exists at all) is that nobody has
I'll assume they're paying you... (Score:5, Insightful)
When I quit HP, they paid me to stay at home for two weeks, and my unused vacation. 6 weeks of pay for 2 weeks at home. Time to recover and prepare for my new job, buy new clothes, and figure out the bus schedule.
The professional way to handle it is to stop whining and enjoy.
Well, you did well, but broke the golden rule... (Score:3, Funny)
My way is fun... (Score:5, Funny)
Of course mine was just my review, but it sort of acted like a resignation letter.
Strengths: Over the last six months I have had the opportunity to learn how to smile when given projects that offer no challenge at all. Furthermore I can now hide my disdain for co-workers that have more in common with parasitic worms than with human beings. I've also grown to recognize the importance of recognition via comparison. For instance, I recognize that our environment here at (insert company name here) is really wonderful compared to other companies - the same way Syphilis is a great improvement over A.I.D.S.. Then there is the multitude of tasks that I can do with my eyes closed. It's truly a wonder how many mundane tasks I can accomplish with no effort at all. And lastly there is my recent discovery of how to divide by zero.
Weaknesses: Sometimes, I have trouble accepting that I actually am flawless.
You did the right thing... it's their problem. (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think it's anything personal. It's just the way some businesses nowadays prefer to operate. I think it's a mistaken attempt at managing risk. Think about it: would a guy who wants to screw you over give two weeks notice? No, they'd do you dirt and take off with no notice.
Re:You did the right thing... it's their problem. (Score:5, Interesting)
Funny thing was nearly every system admin that resigned attempted to access the systems during their enforced vacation. Probably nothing malicious, but since you don't know that, it's a wise policy.
Re:You did the right thing... it's their problem. (Score:4, Insightful)
You did the right thing.. (Score:3, Informative)
While as a ethical professional you wouldn't do anything malicious with your access, that doesn't mean everyone in your position wouldn't. Granted, people who plan to act maliciously generally don't do so after putting in notice, from their point of view, it is better safe than sorry.
You get your pay (which is pretty nice of them), you did the right thing. I wouldn't take their actions personally.
Random Thoughts... (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, unless you're leaving for competition, the CIO probably didn't think you were going to 'do something malicious'. It's probably just company protocol, and in fact, I would consider the quick removal of accounts to be 'lite'. I've worked at companies where as the minute strikes your time of non-employment, 2 security guards immedietally escort you out of the building.
Re:Random Thoughts... (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, I was laid off a bit over one year ago. I was told about it on a Friday (I'm gues
Re:Random Thoughts... (Score:5, Insightful)
Lucky Bastard (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Lucky Bastard (Score:3, Insightful)
That should at least deflate their sails a bit
I resigned about a month ago (Score:3, Interesting)
Without knowing your relationship with you company and what your letter said, I can only suggest your boss is a jerk.
It's very common to get "paid out" (Score:4, Insightful)
my 2 pesos on the situation..... (Score:4, Insightful)
If it were me I would approach my boss and let them know that if they won't give access, there is no need to be around, but you'll be happy to answer any questions that they might have. However tell them that you'd be more than happy to twiddle your thumbs (in a more polite way) for a couple weeks until you've given them their time. I'd guess that they'd be willing to let you go with pay. If not, Worst case you can try to improve your solitaire skills for a couple weeks and get paid to do it.
In any case, both sides have fulfilled their obligations to each other in a completely professional way.
At will (Score:3, Informative)
The phrase "at will" is standard in most contracts nowadays, especially in IT. It basically means that they can let you go at any time and you can decide to leave at any time. It's always best to give the standard two weeks notice and tidy everything up before you go, but these days companies really don't care much. They'll let you go, hand you a severance check, and by the end of the day, they've locked you out of their systems.
This just goes to the whole shift in corporate culture, where employees are no longer people, but FTEs, to be tallied, shifted around like pieces on a Risk board, and disposed of when their usefulness is up. I was raised to believe in the old school company, the kind that valued employees and celebrated longevity, but the only way you get to stay past 5 years anymore is to move up the corporate ladder or refuse your yearly pay raise. And even then, with the advent of outsourcing, job security is a fasing concept.
You did the right thing; your company did not.
I guess it depends on where you work. (Score:4, Insightful)
You want to eliminate any possibility of doubt if something goes wrong after you leave.
So while their actions may be seem extreme, it really is for your protection as much as it is for theirs. I would not take it so personally.
Took a while but the same thing happened to me... (Score:3, Informative)
No hard feelings, but with concerns over security nowadays, I don't blame employers for going through this extra step. I mean, IF I had done something malicious, what would their course of action be? Besides a lawsuit in which most cases side with the employee not the employer, they couldn't fire me because I had already quit.
Uh, you got a vaction... (Score:4, Insightful)
What you should have done... (Score:5, Funny)
Sean
As said before, this is quite common (Score:3, Insightful)
The next time you resign from an IT job, there are things you should do before you resign if you want them to be done --
-- take your personal computer hardware, books, papers, etc. home. Before you resign. If you wait to do it after, you may not even get the chance (as they show you the door), and you'll have to argue with them about it. And if you do get the chance, they may be watching you like a hawk and you'll have to justify it.
-- same goes for your personal files and stuff you want to save. Save it off the network and computers BEFORE you resign. Some companys are cool about this sort of thing, some aren't. Don't take the risk. This is also a good thing to do if you get wind of layoffs coming up that you might be involved in.
-- If there are any projects you want to see completed before you leave, complete them before you resign.
lucky they paid you (Score:3, Informative)
The fun of working in an 'at-will' state.
Generally they think you'll get 'short timers syndrome' and not do anything anyway. It's no wonder people just up & quit these days. The acts of courtesy that an employee extends to a company are very rarely returned.
2 tips: backup + behaviour (Score:4, Interesting)
2) Choose your employer wisely. If you see any signs of them acting inhumane with other employees, leave, and do it as described under 1).
The best way to quit IMO: (Score:5, Funny)
In the corporate world you often get reviewed for your performance. The meetings are uncomfortable affairs where your manager goes down a checklist of things that 'could use improvement'. On Quit Your Job Day, you'll be calling a review meeting of your own. Create a list of things the company needs improvement in. Watch your manager squirm as you point out bad health benefits, impenetrable paperwork, inhuman working environments and other OSHA related problems. At the end of your review look your manager straight in the eye and ask 'What would you do if you were me?', pause and then announce 'I'm afraid I'm going to have to let you go.'
More ways to quit at:
http://www.quityourjobday.com/ [quityourjobday.com]
I actually said that to my last employer. (Score:5, Interesting)
I told them that I was walking off of the job, RIGHT NOW, and that was all there was to it.
One of the bosses got upset with me and said that it was discourteous to do something like that. You should give two weeks notice that it would get back to you later and you might not be able to get a job for a stunt like that.
I then told them that my employment was a contract where you paid me for services, and if you fired me, you would walk me out of the building immediately.
"So, I'm firing you. You're all incompetent, and the system is failing due to that. Consider my vacant position as a sign of things to come."
When I walked it stirred people. That next week they lost three. Two more quit the next week. I was an underground leader of the staff, and when I went, the whole place saw my lead and thought it wasn't worth it.
All in all, it was the most worthy thing I've done in years.
Smile and leave, or.... (Score:3, Insightful)
If they expect you to remain for those last 2 weeks with no access to the systems, break out a pad and pen and start writing down all of the things you know you have access too, and work with your co-workers to ensure you no longer have access to anything.
On top of that, spend some time to pass along info on those systems you are the only one that knows anything about.
Beyond that it's not bad to sit around and make it known your available to answer questions before your time is up.
Face it, the more professional you are, the better your former employer and co workers will feel about you later. That never hurts when looking for references.
I'm a little more forward (Score:3, Funny)
Know your State Employment Laws... (Score:5, Informative)
As it has been said before, it sounds like the OP did the ethical and professional thing in his resignation, and the company opted for the (now fairly standard) rude and unprofessional immediate termination. That said, everyone should know what your state's employment laws are. They vary widely, and give the employee a variety of options and rights, and also can help you set expectations.
I'm going to speak about California, since that's where I work now. IANAL, but I've talked to one about this, and you should too. It's cheap ($100 or so for 30 minutes or so), and will give you information that is very much worthwhile, both at the start phase (negotiating your employment) and exit phase (termination/resignation) of your job.
CA is an "at will" state. For those employees (not contractors) not covered by a union contract, there are really three different ways to end employment:
Now, what happens often these days is that the company notifies you that you are terminated, and then tells you (e.g. locks you out, etc) that you are not to come to work for the next 2 weeks. The same applies to people resigning when they give notice (as the OP found out). HOWEVER, you are STILL CONSIDERED EMPLOYED by the company until the 2 week period is up. This is often important for Stock vesting, etc. And don't let them fool you that the "2 weeks pay" thing is a "severance package". It isn't. They are REQUIRED to pay you as long as you are an employee.
Don't Ever Sign Any End-Of-Employment Contract To Get a 2-Week Severance. You're an idiot if you do - they owe you the money in any case. The only time you should sign one of the agreements is to get money beyond what would be coming to you AFTER YOUR RESIGNATION/TERMINATION DATE (not the date you gave/received notice).
As a side note, this idiotic "walk-them-out-when-they-resign" policy seems to have originated in Silicon Valley in the 90s, as a consequence of the Dot-Com boom. Too many companies with no proper HR department not having any sort of a clue as to how to professionally hire/fire people. Unfortunately, it seems to have become a trend (it's the norm here in Silicon Valley for everyone, including the huge companies), which is telling as to the lowered quality of management (and HR) of companies these days.
-Erik
Saved from a living hell! (Score:5, Insightful)
That 2 week notice, and its subsequent conversion into personal TV time, saved you from a whole lot of really boring nothing. Now, go home, get in the car, switch off the GPS and head in which ever direction you see a hawk flying, and don't stop for anything other than gas for 500 miles.
Live a little; the new job is just as likely to suck the life out of you as the old one did.
Better ways... (Score:3, Interesting)
Once we had finished everything to satisfaction, I told my boss that I would be gone at the end of the week. He gave me two extra weeks of salary and told me that I would retain priviliged access to all accounts for another two months, in case my help was needed. He's a class guy and not long after that he was promoted.
Chalk one down for the good guys for once.
You did the right thing (Score:5, Informative)
When I left my last job, I gave my notice and then talked to the director of data security and asked him how he wanted to handle transitioning my authority around. I told him straight up that my reputation is too important to me to leave privileged accounts behind, and that I would appreciate having the opportunity to disable my own access so I would be sure it was done properly. I didn't want something to happen and then for the company to think it was me because I'd recently left and had all sorts of authority on the systems.
My boss had already known of my feelings about that sort of thing, because we had talked about it in the past when others had left. He was fully aware of the conversation I had with the director of data security, and he was cool with it. He knew me well enough to know that I took my responsibilities seriously and wasn't going to do something that would bite me in the ass down the road.
I've seen that sort of thing happen; when I was in college, we had a guy who said he wanted to learn, so we gave him administrative access on the systems. He never showed up, and as inexperienced as we were, we didn't revoke his access. He went in and changed all of the passwords and locked out all of the administrative accounts after deleting his own account. He left a trail so blindingly clear that when the US Air Force called to do a security background check on him, they were informed about it (though not by me - but I was in the room when the call came in). The last I heard (and this was many years ago, so his circumstances may have changed), he was finishing up a 6 year ROTC tour of duty but unable to get a security clearance. Do you know how many jobs there are in the US Air Force involving computer science degrees that don't require a security clearance? Not many....
My boss understood that having seen someone screw their career over (former boss was ex-Navy, and had a top secret clearance) because they decided to act stupid with their authority meant that I wasn't about to do the same. I've always assumed that when it comes to IT systems, someone's watching me and I may not know how they're watching me, so I just don't screw around with the authority.
Being a systems administrator means that you have to be trustworthy - and trusted by your management. I've always said that if management doesn't trust a systems administrator (and if they don't for a good reason), then the systems administrator shouldn't be administering their systems. The fact that there is a lot of very sensitive corporate data accessible to someone with those types of rights means that you have to trust that they're not going to abuse their authority. That doesn't mean that you don't put auditing systems in place to audit access to sensitive data, but in most companies, the ones putting those systems in place are the system administrators, so they know the ins and outs of those systems - including how and where to disable them.
Not so in Europe (Score:4, Interesting)
Around here, leaving usually means a 1 month notice period, and in all the places i worked in, people always work until the last day except if having have some vacation days left and wanting to take them (non-used vacation days are redeemed for money when one leaves).
Even more important, in the vast majority of places i've worked in the company will do a goodbye party for you.
In my last position, even though i now work as a freelancer, after i decided i wasn't going to accept anymore extensions to my contract and on my last day in, they still did a goodbye party for me and gave me a bottle of Cognac as a goodbye present.
I've seen it happen for others, so i ain't been getting goodbye parties 'cause they're happy that I am leaving
Reading above that what happened to the OI is a "usual" behaviour and part of the POF just makes me want to ask - "What the fuck kind of sick employer-employee relation do you guys have there?"
Re:You're not the one with the problem (Score:3, Insightful)
The company isn't 'acting immature', they're acting to limit their security liability. This is Standard Operating Procedure in pretty much every large organization I've worked for, especially if you're high enough up the corporate ziggurat to be privy to confidential information or sensitive software/data.
Take the money, enjoy your two weeks paid vacation, and don't sweat it. It's not personal, it's business!
Due Diligence (Score:5, Insightful)
If you as an employee compromise the system or act as some sort of mole or corporate spy, after you're busted when the shareholders come down on your boss, he can say "Well, hey we had no way of knowing he was bent, we had no warning that this was about to happen. It could happen to anybody."
But let's say you put in your resignation, then backdoored their network on your way out because they didn't cut off your access until two weeks later. This time when the Powers That Be come looking for blood, your boss is SOL: he could try saying "well, we had no idea he was bent..." but the shareholders are just going to respond "He had just turned in his resignation! He was on his way out the door! Why did he still have access?" And your boss becomes the next one on the chopping block, and depending on the nature of the business possibly liable for fines as well.
So really your boss, and your boss' boss, and probably their boss' boss, all the way up the CoC, are just covering their asses by pulling your access as soon as they get a hint that you're not going to be a career employee.
Re:In my experience (Score:4, Interesting)
Let me rephrase that: For all the talk of rights there's only one thing true at the end of the day: backups and dirt beats the odds all the time. I've got 3 complaints going through the system against my former employer, and if I hadn't snagged a copy of everything, time-and-date-stamped files, emails, etc., I wouldn't have a hope in hell. Got 2 more calls from one of the investgators today. So, instead of me being at some asshats mercy, he's probably looking at an audit. No amount of vaseline will make that comfortable.
Backups. Backups. Backups. It's not just because hard drives fail. So do people.
Re:obviously... (Score:3, Informative)