Computer Jobs -- How to Resign Professionally? 1080
MikeDawg asks: "I submitted a letter of resignation yesterday, and today I'm at home posting stories to my weblog and Slashdot. I gave my employer two weeks notice, and almost immediately, I had my accounts disabled, and my permissions revoked on all the computers at my work, which makes me unable to do anything in my position of being a 'Systems Analyst/Systems Administrator'. I spoke with the HR rep, and gave her my notice yesterday, then I spoke with her today about what had happened to my access, and they honored my resignation... 2 weeks early. (Luckily, I'm compensated in pay for the next two weeks). What I want to know is, how do you computer and IT professionals out there put in your notice of resignation (if you are with a permanent employer, and not contractual), and not get immediately shutdown, and shunned away from the computers? The CIO immediately thought I was going to do something terrible to the system, and destroy accounts, and any other activity that I have access to, but I was giving him notice that I was leaving. What is the professional thing to do?"
You did the right thing.. (Score:3, Informative)
While as a ethical professional you wouldn't do anything malicious with your access, that doesn't mean everyone in your position wouldn't. Granted, people who plan to act maliciously generally don't do so after putting in notice, from their point of view, it is better safe than sorry.
You get your pay (which is pretty nice of them), you did the right thing. I wouldn't take their actions personally.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Informative)
I would be more surprised to hear anything else.
At will (Score:3, Informative)
The phrase "at will" is standard in most contracts nowadays, especially in IT. It basically means that they can let you go at any time and you can decide to leave at any time. It's always best to give the standard two weeks notice and tidy everything up before you go, but these days companies really don't care much. They'll let you go, hand you a severance check, and by the end of the day, they've locked you out of their systems.
This just goes to the whole shift in corporate culture, where employees are no longer people, but FTEs, to be tallied, shifted around like pieces on a Risk board, and disposed of when their usefulness is up. I was raised to believe in the old school company, the kind that valued employees and celebrated longevity, but the only way you get to stay past 5 years anymore is to move up the corporate ladder or refuse your yearly pay raise. And even then, with the advent of outsourcing, job security is a fasing concept.
You did the right thing; your company did not.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:2, Informative)
As long as you've left on a good note (given proper notice - two weeks typically, no screaming matches with old managers, etc etc) then I wouldn't worry too too much.
Took a while but the same thing happened to me... (Score:3, Informative)
No hard feelings, but with concerns over security nowadays, I don't blame employers for going through this extra step. I mean, IF I had done something malicious, what would their course of action be? Besides a lawsuit in which most cases side with the employee not the employer, they couldn't fire me because I had already quit.
Re:it's not a professional or civilized world (Score:5, Informative)
Besides you should have disabled all those system account services that were going to detonate and take lots of things with them a year+ 1 month after your accounts were disabled BEFORE you put in your letter of resignation... they are there for sweet revenge in case of downsizing right?
Ok, all joking aside. When you tendered your letter you should have already had everything in order BEFORE you handed it in. All personal items already removed from your office/cubicle. All your code and porn backed up on a CD already in your possesion, your work computers sanitized and swept clean, your pet projects documented so the next guy can live with them for the 30 days he takes to rip them out and put his ideas in place instead..... etc...
It's not only IT, any professional job they hit you in the arse with the door the moment you resign. most companies have way too much sensitive or percieved sensitive information they they becom instantly paranoid about the second you announce you are becoming an "OUTSIDER".
I do strongly suggest anyone even thinking of resigning or outright quitting in a blaze of glory sanitize their workspace and machines, anything you leave behind will come back to haunt you later if it is something you are not proud to leave behind.
In a side note, any awards you may have won, It's not a bad idea to leave them behind at that empty desk. At your new workplace they will only serve to piss off your new coworkers and make your integration that much more difficult.
lucky they paid you (Score:3, Informative)
The fun of working in an 'at-will' state.
Generally they think you'll get 'short timers syndrome' and not do anything anyway. It's no wonder people just up & quit these days. The acts of courtesy that an employee extends to a company are very rarely returned.
Re:obviously... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:2, Informative)
They had given 6 weeks notice (expecting to be paid out on all 6); however, legally they only needed to give us 1 week.
The clerk-droid at the other end of the phone at the Industry reps said "Um, I suppose you have to pay them their 6 weeks."
Upon which I asked "What would happen if I gave 10 years notice?"
Guess what; they did some research and we only needed to pay the 1 week that they were legally required to give!
I agree with other posters; it is standard procedure to have people finish without working out their leave - depending on their reason for leaving.
Last week, we had an employee leave (before he was pushed) and he finished that afternoon. (We checked his briefcase on his way out and removed all of the confidential information he was stealing first... Warrants are being drawn up to search his house now.)
If that guy had stayed on, he would have caused a lot of damage.
OTOH, one of our techs has advised that he will be leaving within 12 months, and has expressed that he wants to work out the completion of his work - and he will be allowed to do so! Why? Because he's simply going to be moving back to his home town - nothing sinister there!
Finally, in some industries, the moment you announce that you are leaving, you are escorted off the premises immediately by security.
Personal effects on your desk? No problem. We'll post them to you. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out!
And just in case anyone is wondering; This is in South Australia, not some First Would Country!
Re:What did you expect? (Score:1, Informative)
Find a company that treats you with respect. With the possible exception of safety (which some would say is really just another aspect of respect), it is worth more than anything else---money, benefits, etc. If you feel like your company doesn't trust you, you're working in the wrong job, and you should find an employer that doesn't suck.
Re:What's the question again? (Score:3, Informative)
It's nothing personal, and it shouldn't be taken as such. It's all about risk management, not your relationship with your employer. A vacation between jobs is never a bad idea anyway.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Informative)
The lesson is: give a month notice next time, and hope they will do the same thing. I'd rather have a month's severance than 2 weeks.
Know your State Employment Laws... (Score:5, Informative)
As it has been said before, it sounds like the OP did the ethical and professional thing in his resignation, and the company opted for the (now fairly standard) rude and unprofessional immediate termination. That said, everyone should know what your state's employment laws are. They vary widely, and give the employee a variety of options and rights, and also can help you set expectations.
I'm going to speak about California, since that's where I work now. IANAL, but I've talked to one about this, and you should too. It's cheap ($100 or so for 30 minutes or so), and will give you information that is very much worthwhile, both at the start phase (negotiating your employment) and exit phase (termination/resignation) of your job.
CA is an "at will" state. For those employees (not contractors) not covered by a union contract, there are really three different ways to end employment:
Now, what happens often these days is that the company notifies you that you are terminated, and then tells you (e.g. locks you out, etc) that you are not to come to work for the next 2 weeks. The same applies to people resigning when they give notice (as the OP found out). HOWEVER, you are STILL CONSIDERED EMPLOYED by the company until the 2 week period is up. This is often important for Stock vesting, etc. And don't let them fool you that the "2 weeks pay" thing is a "severance package". It isn't. They are REQUIRED to pay you as long as you are an employee.
Don't Ever Sign Any End-Of-Employment Contract To Get a 2-Week Severance. You're an idiot if you do - they owe you the money in any case. The only time you should sign one of the agreements is to get money beyond what would be coming to you AFTER YOUR RESIGNATION/TERMINATION DATE (not the date you gave/received notice).
As a side note, this idiotic "walk-them-out-when-they-resign" policy seems to have originated in Silicon Valley in the 90s, as a consequence of the Dot-Com boom. Too many companies with no proper HR department not having any sort of a clue as to how to professionally hire/fire people. Unfortunately, it seems to have become a trend (it's the norm here in Silicon Valley for everyone, including the huge companies), which is telling as to the lowered quality of management (and HR) of companies these days.
-Erik
Re:What did you expect? (Score:5, Informative)
You did the right thing (Score:5, Informative)
When I left my last job, I gave my notice and then talked to the director of data security and asked him how he wanted to handle transitioning my authority around. I told him straight up that my reputation is too important to me to leave privileged accounts behind, and that I would appreciate having the opportunity to disable my own access so I would be sure it was done properly. I didn't want something to happen and then for the company to think it was me because I'd recently left and had all sorts of authority on the systems.
My boss had already known of my feelings about that sort of thing, because we had talked about it in the past when others had left. He was fully aware of the conversation I had with the director of data security, and he was cool with it. He knew me well enough to know that I took my responsibilities seriously and wasn't going to do something that would bite me in the ass down the road.
I've seen that sort of thing happen; when I was in college, we had a guy who said he wanted to learn, so we gave him administrative access on the systems. He never showed up, and as inexperienced as we were, we didn't revoke his access. He went in and changed all of the passwords and locked out all of the administrative accounts after deleting his own account. He left a trail so blindingly clear that when the US Air Force called to do a security background check on him, they were informed about it (though not by me - but I was in the room when the call came in). The last I heard (and this was many years ago, so his circumstances may have changed), he was finishing up a 6 year ROTC tour of duty but unable to get a security clearance. Do you know how many jobs there are in the US Air Force involving computer science degrees that don't require a security clearance? Not many....
My boss understood that having seen someone screw their career over (former boss was ex-Navy, and had a top secret clearance) because they decided to act stupid with their authority meant that I wasn't about to do the same. I've always assumed that when it comes to IT systems, someone's watching me and I may not know how they're watching me, so I just don't screw around with the authority.
Being a systems administrator means that you have to be trustworthy - and trusted by your management. I've always said that if management doesn't trust a systems administrator (and if they don't for a good reason), then the systems administrator shouldn't be administering their systems. The fact that there is a lot of very sensitive corporate data accessible to someone with those types of rights means that you have to trust that they're not going to abuse their authority. That doesn't mean that you don't put auditing systems in place to audit access to sensitive data, but in most companies, the ones putting those systems in place are the system administrators, so they know the ins and outs of those systems - including how and where to disable them.
Re:What's the question again? (Score:2, Informative)
Only two weeks notice? Why not 3 months? (Score:2, Informative)
The standard 2-week notice never ceases to amaze me, here in Norway the standard is "3 months, starting at the end of the current month."
Yes, a very few companies will still pay you to quit immediately, but you cannot depend upon this, which means that both employee and employer needs to consider their actions more carefully: You, as the employee, cannot walk away immediately, even if you have many weeks of acrued leave/vacation time, and your boss cannot fire you immediately without having to explain how a 3-4 month severance payment ended up on his balance sheet.
Yes, sometimes this sucks, but mostly I believe it to be a very good idea.
Terje
2 good reasons for sending a leaver home on pay (Score:5, Informative)
1) Morale of other staff - There is nothing worse than hearing somebody tell you that grass is greener where they're going.
2) I knew that if I sent him home and there was a good chance that I'd find out within a month whether he had some vital knowledge that we needed. This would not be have been noticed if he had worked his notice period. If he did have knowledge or skills that we needed, better to find out during his notice period at home. If we call him while he is still on the payroll, he has a duty to respond.
"Corporate secrets" or "vandalism" were pretty low on my priority list to be honest. If this was going to happen, it had probably happened already.
Does this affect my statutory" employment rights?? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Informative)
My HR director worked at a facility where they fired the facility manager. He was a bit of a quack, which is part of the reason he was being fired, but a nice enough guy. They allowed him to go around the facility with HR escort to say goodbye to a few people after they fired him. As he walked by the production machine, he walked over to a control console and hit the main e-stop button and then whith his escort left the building never to return. It didn't take but a couple of days for the corporate lawyers to have the suit drawn up and file for damamges.
The company cutting off access is just covering themselves against possible wacko's. Don't let it bug you, take the pay, have a party, take your gf out to a fancy dinner and have a good time....hold on a sec, posting to
Ah, the innocence of youth (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:2, Informative)
Risk mitigation isn't just about reducing malicious losses, its about protecting future business. As noble as your intentions might be, you become a risk to future business as soon as you change your voicemail message indicating there is a new contact for your customers due to you leaving the company.
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What did you expect? (Score:1, Informative)
I think you are the one that missed the point. The risk management here is handling it the moment management finds out. Because at the point management knows they are leaving they are then responsible for averting the risks. Prior to this it doesn't matter. The management that is aware the risk exists and doesn't resolve it is then far more responsible for the actions of the employee than if problems arose prior to a resignation.
Anon Cow - Risk Management for my job
Re:What did you expect? (Score:3, Informative)
No, most people can't do that. But most people don't have the same liability, either. CxO positions are officers of the company. They're on the hook. Look at Scrushy from HealthSouth -- he's been found not guilty (no comment on whether I think he actually did anything wrong) but he still faces enormous civil lawsuits related to his management of the company. Yes, some of these guys are unethical, bad guys -- but that's irrelevant in a society where anyone can sue for almost anything, and where big law firms have networks in place to seek out a representative plaintiff so they can initiate class action lawsuits. (As an aside, I had a friend who was an attorney at a big law firm for awhile. He'd get regular broadcast voicemails soliciting help in finding initial plaintiffs -- "We're seeking an individual who owned XXX stock between Date1 and Date2.")
And under Sarbanes-Oxley, the CEO is signing documentation stating that he knows -- absolutely knows -- that the numbers are accurate. (Yeah, this is a gross oversimplification, and there are also numerous people in the chain who must make similar representations.) I'm not certain how this helped anything -- are we to believe that the CEO really knows what the accounting clerk in the subsidiary in Tuvalu is doing?
With the liability that comes with these jobs, the incentives have to be good for people to take them. You'd be mad not to require a pretty hefty package up front. $1 million a year is great until you're named in a class action suit claiming you're responsible for the last stock market correction that vaporized half a billion dollars of market cap.
This doesn't invalidate your point -- that there are a lot of bastards out there who walk away with enormous gain for themselves while leaving the company in tatters.
April 20th is... (Score:3, Informative)