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Education or Private Industry? 85

Posted by Cliff from the which-working-environment-would-you-choose dept.
B Man asks: "I have been working in IT related jobs since 1994, and in that time, I have held the following positions: Security Administrator, Systems (Linux) Administrator, Network Engineer, Computer Consultant, and Project Manager. Almost all of my experience has been in medium sized businesses, but mow I have come to be in the situation of having two job offers that would be in totally different environments, and I am at a crossroads. My choices are: a position which allows me to work with cutting edge technologies, being the main technical contact to a Fortune 10 company; or a position in a higher education facility, in the Unix Administrator role. Both jobs have their good and bad points, but I would like to hear which one Slashdot readers recommend, and why."
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Education or Private Industry? More

Education or Private Industry?

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  • Which do you value more? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Metasquares ( 555685 ) <slashdot.metasquared@com> on Thursday January 12, 2006 @09:04PM (#14459984) Homepage
    A bigger paycheck or more freedom?
    • I would cite the ability to grow. In a university setting, you can take free classes to expand your knowledge to become more valuable to your future employer. Tired of just having a BS in CS? How about an MS in CS? MBA? Want to get that Director position? CIO? A Masters degree with your experience will make you the perfect candidate for those positions.

  • conundrum? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by opposume ( 600667 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @09:09PM (#14460013) Homepage
    corporate = more money, oddly less red tape and bureaucracy, but less freedom to do more fun things. education = more freedom but more red tape and hassles when you want/need something due to federal monies and grants being limited. I would probably go with corporate given that you'll get to play with the latest and greatest while making good money at it, even though you'll have to probably wear a suit and tie. But that's just my 0.02
    • Yep, I'm familiar with the glacial pace and red tape of education. But I'm also familiar with 60-70 hour salaried workweeks in the corporate world. I picked freedom over money and have few regrets.

  • Money (Score:1)

    by B Man ( 51992 )
    Both of the jobs base pay is about the same. The corporate position also has a incentive though. Just to fill in the details.
    • WOW! That makes the choice SIGNIFICANTLY harder- or in my case with my tempermant significantly easier- but it still comes down to a similar lifestyle choice as I've already posted. The choice is still between excitement with potential rewards but the downside of possible total failure causing stress; vs stability with politics causing most of the stress but assurance of having a job practically forever. It really depends on your tempermant and what you want to do with your life.
    • if you do get the education position, please keep in mind that technology isn't always necessary for or even beneficial to teaching and learning
    • Well, lets break these into pluses and minuses:

      Private industry:

      Pluses:

      *Incentives
      *Raises more likely
      *Possibly more modern technology

      Minuses:

      *Higher stress
      *Less freedom
      *Less stable

      Education:

      Pluses:

      *Freedom
      *Stability
      *Possibly free classes?
      *Atmosphere

      Minuses:

      *Less room for salary growth
      *Fewer contacts for future career
      *Fewer chances to play with new tech

      For me, atmosphere would seal it. I loved college, I'd love to be back in that atmosphere again. Plenty of resources for learning, smart people to hang out
      • Education:

        *Fewer chances to play with new tech

        That depends. In my experience, hardware budgets are lumpy - sometimes you can get shiny, expensive new hardware easy as pie, sometimes you need to make do with the hand-me-down desktop machine. Individual software packages are generally pretty easy to get bought, but 'enterprise' software can be very difficult, unless there's a good discount available for educational users (e.g. Microsoft does well here, since it's in their interest to get the next generat

  • Lifestyle choice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Marxist Hacker 42 ( 638312 ) * <seebert42@gmail.com> on Thursday January 12, 2006 @09:12PM (#14460033) Homepage Journal
    You don't tell us if you have, or want, a family, but that's really what this keys on.

    The Fortune 10 company will shower you with money as long as you make choices that save them money- and might very well be worth your while, not to mention the great networking oportunities with such a position will lead you to other riches. But they will drop you in an instant if you're not making money, thus this option is only useful if you have no family and can move at the drop of a hat; or reduce your standard of living to put up with long layoffs.

    The university will not pay as much- but you really have to fsck up to get fired from a university. They'll guarantee your income for the forseeable future, and probably also grant you a nice pension. In addition to that, there's always the fun of being the BOFH to a bunch of undergraduates- or play nasty games when that dweeb with the master's thesis exceeds his disk quota. Plus, it gives you the ultimate in with the female co-eds by being "helpful", which leads to dates, and eventually to the family, and the house bought on a 30 year mortgage guaranteed by your small but never-decreasing paycheck.

    I know which one I'd take- but that's because I already made the mistake of having the family and mortgage and house and trying to pay for it with private industry jobs that never lasted more than 3 years. Lucky dog you- hopefully I'll be equally lucky soon as I'm currently contracting with the state and a developer's position in my office is opening up soon.
    • Plus, it gives you the ultimate in with the female co-eds by being "helpful", which leads to dates, and eventually to the family, and the house bought on a 30 year mortgage guaranteed by your small but never-decreasing paycheck.

      I gotta say, from my emperical experiences, this doesn't work for me. So, YMMV.
      • I took a Unix Admin job here at a university 3 months ago. This university has about a 10 to 1 male/female ratio (engineering college out in the boondocks). I've dated 5 girls so far, graduate students and undergraduates. Unfortunately they were all crazy, and I'm starting to think that I'm going to have serious trouble finding someone to marry. But other than that, it's been fun.

    • Re:Lifestyle choice (Score:5, Informative)

      by elmegil ( 12001 ) * on Friday January 13, 2006 @12:12AM (#14460941) Homepage Journal
      They'll guarantee your income for the forseeable future

      If you call $30k a year an income. I worked University Admin for the first 7 years of my career, and I'll never go back.

      • I got paid 50% of my market value. If not less. I lived in student type apartments just above slum levels to keep from going broke. And I moved on with about $16k in debt.
      • I had to do the work of 3 people myself, with no money for training, no money for conferences (except one time in 7 years).
      • I only learned the equipment we had the budget to buy. Suffice to say it was not cutting edge equipment, and left me a bit behind when I did decide to go into the private sector.
      • 24x7x365 on call. Oh yeah, I did get to go out of town a couple weeks each year, but otherwise, since I was The Guy for what I managed, if it broke, I fixed it.

      It's just not worth it. MAYBE if you're going to a huge state school or an incredibly wealthy/prestigious school, they'll have budget to make up for these shortcomings. But otherwise, you're condemning yourself to a backwater. I learned hella lot, but it was all school of hard knocks, and after 7 years I was seriously burnt out.

      I'd say take the Fortune 10 job, make some significant money for a few years, put a lot of it away, and then you can look for a private sector job that's a bit more laid back. They exist you know, even if they don't in the Fortune 10.

      • If you call $30k a year an income. I worked University Admin for the first 7 years of my career, and I'll never go back.

        Someone who is good at budgeting can live on any given income assuming that the standard of living in the area is low enough to support it. You must have worked for a public university. B-Man has added a clarification message in this list that his choice is roughly equal salary and benefits package between the two. I don't know if this means his offer is with a private university that
        • You must have worked for a public university.

          No, but it was a very small University.

          B-Man has added a clarification message in this list that his choice is roughly equal salary and benefits package between the two.

          Fair enough. Given equal benefits and salary, the University job will always hae more slack.

          • Fair enough. Given equal benefits and salary, the University job will always hae more slack.

            But that's exactly why I said it's a lifestyle choice- some people don't do very well with slack. They get bored, then start inventing political messes where there are none. Eventually they self-distruct. The incentives and rewards are almost sure to be better in the Fortune 10 company- but the trade off is that the job is significantly less secure. Some people thrive on that lack of security.

            I used to count m

    • The university will not pay as much- but you really have to fsck up to get fired from a university. They'll guarantee your income for the forseeable future, and probably also grant you a nice pension.

      And probably offer tuition waivers to yourself, your spouse, and your children.

      I work for the IT department at a medium-sized college, and I'm working on a second Bachelor's in Computer Science, while my wife is working on her MBA. Total out-of-pocket? About 200 dollars a semester to cover our "fees" and the pr

  • Married? (Score:5, Funny)

    by duffbeer703 ( 177751 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @09:15PM (#14460057)
    If you're married, go for the private sector gig.

    If you're not, get the job at the university and enjoy a year or two of empty casual sex with easily impressed college chicks. Then leave and take a corporate gig.

    • Re:Married? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Marxist Hacker 42 ( 638312 ) * <seebert42@gmail.com> on Thursday January 12, 2006 @09:18PM (#14460079) Homepage Journal
      Funny- I had exactly the opposite reaction. For my marriage, we need the stability of being able to depend on my paycheck- and I've completely soured on the idea of private industry EVER being able to provide that kind of stability ever again. The days of being able to depend on a paycheck with a single corporation to pay a 30 year mortgage or college for your two year old 18 years from now are long gone.
      • "Main Technical Contact at a Fortune 10 Company" pays more than any University job except football coach.

        There are probably a few dozen university professors in the whole world who will make as much money as a "Main Technical Contact at a Fortune 10 Company." Probably a 100 or so administrators will make more, but absolutely no staff ever, ever will.

        He'll probably make five to twenty times as much in the private sectors as "Main Technical Contact at a Fortune 10 Company" as he would as a Unix System Admini
        • "Main Technical Contact at a Fortune 10 Company" pays more than any University job except football coach.

          That's what I thought too- but length of job matters as much as the monthly salary when it comes from total money gained, and elsewhere B-Man stated that the offers he's been given are equal. I don't know if that means that it's a private university that pays it's people more- or if "Main technical contact" is yet another technical job that is suffering from H-1b wage deflation. My guess would be the
          • And I would posit that someone who gets offered the job of "Main Technical Contact at a Fortune 10 Company" will not find it difficult to find another job.

            I work for a Fortune 100 company. Been here for over 5 years. Nobody is being laid off. We're hiring all the time. We've outgrown the building we're in and are looking for more space. We've (my division, anyway) had double-digit (i.e. >= 10.0%) growth in revenue for every one of the past 11 quarters. Not all big companies are downsizing. Some of the

      • Funny- I had exactly the opposite reaction. For my marriage, we need the stability of being able to depend on my paycheck- and I've completely soured on the idea of private industry EVER being able to provide that kind of stability ever again.

        The neat thing about working for the state is that you also get to vote. That means cutbacks by the powers that be are much less likely since they depend on your vote.

        Every election becomes an opportunity to vote yourself more security or money.
  • 1) Which one will you be happiest at based on your career path, goals and objectives, ability to achieve those goals, etc.?

    2) Which one will your wife support you the most in?

    If the answers between #1 and #2 differ..... well, you have a different question to post to AskSlashdot, don't you?

  • Family life (Score:3, Informative)

    by B Man ( 51992 ) <bhgraham AT yahoo DOT com> on Thursday January 12, 2006 @09:20PM (#14460091) Homepage
    I am married, but no kids yet.

    I guess I just didn't fill in near enough info.

    • Re:Family life (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Marxist Hacker 42 ( 638312 ) * <seebert42@gmail.com> on Thursday January 12, 2006 @09:34PM (#14460175) Homepage Journal
      Then check with your wife and see how soon she wants kids. Kids change EVERYTHING in this equation- I could have gotten by with no health care and contracting and sporadic layoffs the rest of my life, with occasionaly borrowing money from inlaws. But my kid being diagnosed with Cerebral Palsy changed all that- I can NEVER let him be without health insurance. That's why I need the stability. Well, that and the stupid mistake of taking out a mortgage and getting a house- but if it wasn't for the kid I could eventually just go bankrupt and walk away from that.

      • Re:Family life (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Krach42 ( 227798 )
        Well, that and the stupid mistake of taking out a mortgage and getting a house- but if it wasn't for the kid I could eventually just go bankrupt and walk away from that.

        This is not at all intended with malice.

        But technically, you could do the same with your kid. You just have to decide if walking away is worth being the worst dad in the world... I think most people would decide to stick around.

        Plus, I think there might be criminal liability involved with that choice. So, it generally all around would suck

        • Re:Family life (Score:2, Insightful)

          by sycotic ( 26352 )
          I can appreciate that you are just making the comment for alternatives sake, but I think I need to point out that it is still a very mean thing to say.

          When it comes to family, a decision like that is most certainly not an option anyone in their right mind considers.

          My guess is that you do not have any dependants of your own.

          • My guess is that you do not have any dependants of your own.

            No, I don't have dependents. Also, I weighed heavily if this would be offensive. Because it is an offensive thing to say. I took it that MH42 is a pretty understanding guy, and understands the explanation of alternatives for the sake of alternatives.

            I also attempted to explain that I don't suggest anyone actually do such a thing as just ditching a dependent. That's just fucking cruel.

            But there are some assholes out there that go and do that. I
        • Because other people commented, I need to say I'm not offended- but also that it's a choice of consequences in which the consequences outweigh the benefits enough to never be seriously considered.
          • Exactly. That's what I was trying to say. While choice sometimes exists at least theoretically, sometimes it can be considered wrong/offensive just to even consider that they might exist.
      • The parent comment was posted so long ago I may never see a reply to this, but...

        Why do you think that getting a mortgage and buying a house was a stupid mistake? I guess it depends on the type of mortgage. If you have an interest-only ARM then that's a bad situation, but a fixed-rate mortgage is not a bad thing. The money is not disappearing, its turning into equity for your house, and since your house value will most likely increase over the next 10-20 years its actually sort of like a long-term saving
        • Personally, I think a mortgage and a house is a good thing, but I live in an area where property values are going up, and I'm (fairly) good about paying my bills on time.

          I know some people who have bought houses in places where the crime rate was going up, or where a major local employer shut down, and now they're stuck: the house has basically no value, and they're still paying a high mortgage on it. I also know people who simply can't get the hang of paying bills on time (it took me a long time to learn
        • Why do you think that getting a mortgage and buying a house was a stupid mistake? I guess it depends on the type of mortgage. If you have an interest-only ARM then that's a bad situation, but a fixed-rate mortgage is not a bad thing. The money is not disappearing, its turning into equity for your house, and since your house value will most likely increase over the next 10-20 years its actually sort of like a long-term savings account.

          When it comes to having an exciting career- a fixed rate mortgage is a b
          • But even if you sell the house within a year or two its still not a bad thing. You might have gotten some appreciation (average ~6% [realestateabc.com], or at least stability, so you can sell the house and get that money back.

            It sounds like another possibility you are suggestion is the assumption that you might lose your job and have no income for a substantial period. But I've never considered that as a realistic concern. I've always ensured I have 3-6 months living expenses saved up, and I assumed I could either find a ne
            • But even if you sell the house within a year or two its still not a bad thing. You might have gotten some appreciation (average ~6%, or at least stability, so you can sell the house and get that money back.

              If the major industry of your area is high tech, and high tech is in a recession, you can't count on that appreciation. Right now my house is worth about $10,000 less than I owe on it.

              It sounds like another possibility you are suggestion is the assumption that you might lose your job and have no inco
              • Yours is an insightful story. I've never thought "against the gain" so to speak, as all the financial advisers I've ever spoken to fully recommend purchase over rent. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.
                • I had to be forced to think against the grain- but note that the answer for me was NOT neccessarily to leave home ownership behind- but to change the career path instead. I now seek stability in government jobs instead of the wild life of private industry. I hope to be successful soon- and if so, we'll keep the house, and with any luck, find that appreciation again over the course of 30 years. But it was a wrong choice from a career standpoint that I have to live with. If our conversation convinces at l
                • Damn- missed it- against the GAIN, not the GRAIN!!!! Yes, in not all instances is quick gain a good thing- but the financial planners usually get their best word-of-mouth advertising out of quick gains, so their advice will always follow the gain. :-)
                  • Actually, I did mean to type "against the grain", so your original interpretation is correct. "Against the gain" was a typo.
                    • But a very useful typo- nice to know I read it right the first time though. I've got to think on the entire idea of "thinking against the gain"; it's the real center of the success-vs-security debate.

    • Take the sure thing and use your experience to teach others. You will likely have a lot more free time and a bunch of eager computer people to help you with whatever pet projects you might have in the future.

      If you're really good, 10 years from now ex-students will be offering you private sector work anyway. Then you can quit, consult or whatever you want.

      I'm not a computer guy, but I see a good thing when it stares me in the face. Oh, wait, I was thinking of naked co-ed boobies because that's open in t
  • And use the education discounts to get more advanced degrees for yourself and your family. Of course you could be talking about a school that doesn't offer advanced degrees. Well, so long as the school offers a degree that you or your wife'd be interested in getting, I'd do that.

    Chris

  • University (Score:3, Insightful)

    by countach ( 534280 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @09:29PM (#14460139)
    If the pay is similar, go to the university. Less pressure, more security. Do what you want with less emphasis on the business case. But if the pay is a lot more, well we need to follow the trail of $$$.
  • I currently work for a private sector IT company, but we contract to a government agency. IMHO the public sector job would be much more stable, and you'll more than likely make more money over the lifespan of the job, with very little in the way of upsets. Plus you'll be on the inside, and likely have your own budget.

    Your original query indicates that you'd be on contract with the fortune 10 company, which means every time you want to spend their money, you will have to justify it nine ways to sunday bef

  • Avoid the Fortune 10 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by lucm ( 889690 )
    I've been in two big companies and I did not enjoy. Like you I was coming from mid-sized places and I thought: how great it must be not to have to worry about budgets. But I was devastated by the slow-paced, nonchalant ambiance. I had a hard time adjusting myself to the never ending meetings and memos and pointless policies, and at some point I told myself: it is just incredible how money is wasted here, no surprise if the only customers are other big companies with huge budgets.

    In big companies the decisio
  • All other things being equal, I'd pick the job with the educational institution. The reason I'd do this is because I think that the overall learning opportunities are better at the school. Sure, the Fortune 10 company will have more money to spend, but more money does not equal more learning. An educational institution is more likely to give you the time to do something rather than the money, so instead of just buying and installing a router, for example, you might get to build one out of some old parts
  • I'd try the fortune 10 company, you could probably do more to benefit society working with the cutting edge tech... it seems backwards, but the tech field defies traditional logic.

  • Ed (Score:2)

    by omarius ( 52253 )
    I'd vote Ed, but that's me. For one, all the higher-ed jobs I've worked in have been state jobs, which means the pay isn't great but nobody's exploiting me either. 40-hour workweeks and non-exemption from overtime means I get to have a personal life. Plus, I have a soft spot for academics and academia. I work for a community college now, but when I worked at a University I truly reveled in being surrounded with smart, serious people who liked what they were doing and kept up with the latest. (Here at a

  • Black or White? (Score:3, Funny)

    by PylonHead ( 61401 ) on Thursday January 12, 2006 @10:29PM (#14460445) Homepage Journal
    Dear Slashdot,

    The new IPod nano comes in either black or white. Both colors have their good and bad points, but I would like to hear which one Slashdot readers recommend, and why.
  • They call it "cutting edge" technology because you'll want to saw your leg off in order to escape from that trap. The higher-profile the client, the more eggregious the abuse that your management will apply to you. The "cutting edge" which you do not define is almost certainly a buzz-word powered hype engine. The real cutting edge technology will be seen in the academic research lab.
    There you might actually contribute something to mankind, instead of just raping your fellow man for personal gratificatio
  • It sure sounded like it.
  • I guess I didnt think this out at all.

    The university job is working in a university funded business development extension office, the tuition is highly reduced for classes, and the pay is close to the same as the other job without any incentives, and is more like a start-up than a college setting.

    cutting-edge is defined as pre-production networking, wireless, rfid, and related technologies. And it would be dealing directly with upper management of said fortune 10 company. The incentives offered could equa
    • My wife worked for a university. I work for IBM. I have several friends who work in academia.

      Something to bear in mind is that the university environment often has insane amounts of politics, and toxic office situations. I mean, IBM has politics, but nothing like my friends tell me about at universities. Sure, you have great job security--but so does the total asshole with tenure who decides to make every day of your life a living hell.

      Another thing is mobility. So far in 7 years at IBM I've worked for 4 di
    • I've been in both situations. You have to decide what your ultimate goals are. Do you want to move up in the organization you're going to join, or do you just want to collect a pay check and focus on other parts of your life?

      The corporate gig will allow for advancement. The academic position will not.

      You'll have a LOT more flexibility at the academic position, but I'm not sure how much if you're doing sys admin stuff.

      One thing to keep in mind in the academic position is that if you don't have a PHD, yo
  • If you take the sysadmin position at the University, you'll regret it. Every year,, a new crop of know-it-alls with a little skill at assembly are going to waltz in and think they own your machines because they paid megabux for their tuition. You'll be in a constant struggle to keep them in line when it comes to your computers, and they'll think it's just a big game.

    Every year, your security will grow tighter and tighter, until your control and knowledge of your systems will surpass anything you could've im
  • Of course it is impossible to give you meaningful advice without knowing you, but I will say you need to consider who you are. If you are materialistic, ambitious and want the SUV in the driveway of a McMansion, then private enterprise is for you. If your wife has a strong career and you want to be the house husband, then perhaps the University life is for you.

    • Grab the cash, stuff it somewhere profitable and safe, and get the hell outta the computer business as soon as you can. Or stick around in your old age and be able to share your wealth of knowlege at your pace, secure in the knowlege your nest-egg is there if the morons of the world start weighing you down.

      You can't do that if you bearly break even your whole working life.

  • DUH (Score:2)

    by drDugan ( 219551 )
    FORTUNE 10 no question

    one word: politics

  • YAO (Score:1)

    by arakasi ( 225629 )
    I've worked at a medium-sized community college for about 6 years now in the positions of computer lab admin, computer technician and my current position of web applications developer/db admin.

    I wonder which position you are already leaning toward? Your description of the private industry job is more thorough and interesting than the description of the education job.

    It would seem that a good choice is something that provides more positive choices. The private industry job, as you describe it, would seem to
    • I have to echo much of this. I just finished 7 years as a network administrator, systems administrator, web developer and technology director for a community college.

      While all the good things are there (benefits, work hours, stability and security), there were considerable downsides. Education pay is for shit! I just switched back to industry doing exactly the same thing at 25% pay increase. Second, there is no such thing as "cutting edge technology" in education. I brought Linux into a Novell only h

  • Bias. (Score:1)

    by 6350' ( 936630 )
    Do keep in mind now, more so than ever, that this is a question that most commonly will elicit responses from people who have a very strong opinion on the topic one way or the other. It would be unfortunate to find that you informed your decision in part on the fact that there were slightly more X responses than Y; together which would almost certainly hugely steam-roll over the silent majority of people who have no strong feeling one way or another on the issue.
  • I see you don't have kids yet, but a lot of universities offer free tuition for their employee's children.
    So, twenty years from now, 2 kids, half a million worth of free tuition?
  • What it really comes down to is, what is important to you?

    You don't mention whether the Higher Ed. position is state or not. If it's not, you're basically still working for a corporation: a private university is a factory for making students. Some factories work better than others, but they're all still factories.

    (Disclaimer: I started working at a state university about a year ago.)

    A state job, though, is different. In general, the pay is a lot lower. I'm making somewhere between 50% and 75% of what
  • I've been in similar situations and currently work for a Fortune 500 company. My personal preference would be to work somewhere smaller, and since I don't know the scales of the places you're looking at, maybe this would make a difference.

    I've worked for a number of start ups and worked with top-tier clients. It's stressful, but can be fun if you succeed. If you work for a large corporation engaging with a Fortune 10 company, you'll have resources, but probably a fair amount of bureaucracy. You'll also enco
  • In a company of that size you can make a lot of money. But what's the real reward? In the academic situation, even as an administrator, you have the opportunity to help the next generation of IT graduates. Often the practical assistance that you may have the opportunity to share with the students will be more valuable to them than any of the student/faculty interaction available to them. The opportunity to provide a select few students, as part of a work study program, with practical knowledge and skill
  • I'm looking at your question, and I find myself wondering if your educational institution might be the big one in Baltimore, MD. Since we're hiring someone with the title of "Unix Systems Administrator."
    If so-- I'm an Undergrad here, and *I*, for one, think the people are nice. The undergrads won't give you too much trouble, as long as you're able to deal effectively with a series of special-case decisions. That's the important thing from our perspective; that the needs of our research are met, *over* the n

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