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Microsoft

Why Does Everyone Hate Microsoft? 1540

MrSplog asks: "I'm doing a short project on Microsoft and its impact on society. A considerable part of this project has been looking into people's perceptions of Microsoft and the heavily negative bias of that perception. Since Slashdot is one of the world's forefront leaders on Microsoft hatred, I wanted to know: just why do you hate Microsoft? Please be as descriptive and as thorough as you like. Counter arguments and positive comments are also appreciated."
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Why Does Everyone Hate Microsoft?

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  • Simple (Score:5, Informative)

    by complete loony ( 663508 ) <Jeremy@Lakeman.gmail@com> on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:01AM (#17249470)
    It's MY Computer. It's MY Data.

    Microsoft's goal is to own and control everything on my computer, in the server room, eventually perhaps in my lounge room and anywhere else they can imagine. And they try to keep it that way by deliberately avoiding existing open standards and interoperability with existing applications. They adopt new standards with reluctance, and even then they break them.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:02AM (#17249480)

    I just submitted the following Ask Slashdot:

    "I'm doing a short project on the RIAA and its impact on society. A considerable part of this project has been looking into people's perceptions of the music industry and the heavily negative bias of that perception. Since Slashdot is one of the world's forefront leaders on RIAA hatred, I wanted to know: just why do you hate the RIAA? Please be as descriptive and as thorough as you like. Counter arguments and positive comments are also appreciated."

    Come on, everybody, go for it. I'm sure you've got hundreds of similar questions you'd like to ask.

  • by BWJones ( 18351 ) * on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:21AM (#17249760) Homepage Journal
    Perfect example... I had a friend at a little company called Bungie. Bungie was developing this really cool little application called Halo that they were planning on releasing for MacOS, Linux and Windows. Microsoft came along, made them an offer they could not refuse and they bought the company so Halo could be a "halo" game for the Xbox platform. This of course meant that all development of Halo for the Macintosh and Linux were cancelled and Windows development was significantly delayed. It was almost a couple of years before I was asked to help with the development of the Macintosh port of Halo. So, I and many, many other users of the Macintosh and Linux (and Windows for that matter) were negatively impacted by this very common business practice of Microsoft.

  • by redwoodtree ( 136298 ) * on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:25AM (#17249810)
    I'm a sysadmin... in a previous lifetime I had to run Windows.... why do I hate windows?

    * The six days in a row in 1997/1998 I had to battle hackers that had figured out how to reboot our windows nt 5.1 server from the net (firewalls weren't what they are today).
    * The countless weeks I lost because of Exchange server disk becoming full;
    * For exchange sucking such major ass ( before version 6.0) and failing when a disk filled up
    * The countless hours I lost when SSL suddenly stopped working in NT one day,
    * The unbearable and unthinkable number of times I've had to re-install windows when it became corrupt,
    * The countless hours at christmas, thanksgiving and every other trip home I had to spend on the number of spyware and viri I've had to remove on my parent's computers (Because they have an app they need that needs activex)

    And while I'm at it...

    * Because of ActiveX and other closed systems,
    * Because every OS upgrade requires new hardware, unlike Mac OS where ever OS Upgrade runs FASTER on older hardware than the old OS

    And speaking of OS...

    * Because of the registry, fuck the registry and fuck all the fucking registry hacks I've ever had to do,
    * Because of the way they code their apps assembly line style in Redmond,
    * Because of Bill Gates, and his hate of everything open and open source.

    Thank you, you bastard troll for making me type this.
  • Re:Three Words (Score:5, Informative)

    by EtherMonkey ( 705611 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:26AM (#17249818)

    Why do people hate Microsoft? In a word: Greed. Microsoft is consumed by a rampant, unrepentant, no-holds-barred corporate ravenousness for consumer dollars. At least this is how it looks to individual consumers, small businesses, and even most other large enterprises.

    Some examples:

    • Microsoft was among the first major, mainstream software publishers to charge paying customers for technical support on legally-owned Microsoft products.
    • Microsoft was one of the first major, mainstream software companies to increase upgrade fees from what was a standard 20% of the original software price to what is now 50%, if you are allowed to upgrade at all.
    • Microsoft was the first major, mainstream software company to deny upgrades to customers who don't pre-pay the 50% upgrade fee up-front when the original software purchase is made, with no refund if an upgrade isn't released within two years.
    • Microsoft bemoans the cost of software piracy, but each time Microsoft has implemented technology to reduce piracy, it has doubled the price of the better protected software.
    • Microsoft adds features to its software that puts competitors out of business, then removes those features and sells them as add-ons or upgraded versions.
    • Microsoft talks reduced enterprise TCO benefits on the one hand while making each new release significantly more difficult to deploy, maintain and support.
    • Microsoft claims that it's not predatory or monopolistic, while using its overwhelmingly dominant position in the OS market to drive out competitors to its application and development tools marketplaces.
    • And yes, Embrace, Extend and Exterminate.
    I could give more specifics, but I'm under non-disclosure.
  • Why? (Score:4, Informative)

    by ktakki ( 64573 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:36AM (#17249948) Homepage Journal

    Well, I've been using Microsoft products for the last 15 years, and for the last three years I've been working for a company that does support for small- to medium-sized businesses that use Microsoft products. At my office we use a mix of Windows and Linux and at home there are Windows, Mac, and Linux boxes under my desk. I have issues with all of them, to be sure, but here's my Microsoft litany:

    • The Registry. Number One pain in the ass. Easily corrupted, hard to edit and restore.
    • Every point covered in the Findings of Fact released during the anti-trust litigation, including vendor lock-in, strong-arming the OEMs, and anti-competitive practices.
    • Windows Genuine Advantage, which is buggy as all hell. I added a DVD burner to my system at work and had to re-activate, which meant a call to their Bangalore call center ("Good gracious no, kind sir! I have not installed this on another computer!)
    • Lame disk management tools like scandisk and chkdsk that haven't progressed since the late '90s.
    • Word: I find myself fighting Word's formatting tools and eventually give up and end up using InDesign instead for something as simple as a letterhead template. I've been using Word since version 2.0. It has always sucked sweaty balls.
    • SBS2003: crippleware, what with its domain controller and non-workgroup restrictions (and yes, I know about that Registry hack. See #1).
    • Security: Arguments about being a big target aside, there are some security holes that just should not exist. That big 2002 code audit did nothing.
    • Patches that break things: The first that comes to mind is the verclsid.exe patch from earlier this year that broke Explorer for users with HP printers. Word and IE were also collateral damage. That patch needed more testing before release. Workaround was to rename verclsid.exe to verclsid.exx. That allowed the client to open Word documents and enter URLs in IE's address bar.
    • Let's go back in time: Windows ME. Worst. OS. Evar.
    • Back to the present day: logging and error reporting on XP (and the Server products) leave much to be desired. Tell me more. Give me more google-fodder. Don't tell me that "the data is in the packet" in the error message. That packet is long gone.
    • Heisenbugs. User settings that revert to something other than what you set. Bugs that can only be resolved by changing permissions on a single Registry key. See #1.
    • XP/2000 default settings: Let's mount every shared printer and folder by default. Let's hide extensions. Let's hide "hidden" and system files. Dumb.
    • Trivial shit, like that stupid animated dog in the Search function. Not professional, but I understand that this and Clippy are holdovers from Microsoft "Bob", which was Melinda Gates's project before she married Bill. Kill Clippy, kill the puppy.


    Now, a list of what I like about Microsoft products:

    • Excel: It's done everything I've thrown at it, including some fairly hairy VBA scripts. I have zero problems with Excel. Im my opinion, it's their best product.
    • XP's (and ME's) System Restore. This actually works on occasion, but only if the problem is minor.
    • Server 2003 (full version, not SBS): I think MSFT finally got something right. Every Server 2003 install I've done has been behind a NAT router, so I haven't had security problems so far. Easy setup, fairly easy to configure, dead easy to integrate with an office full of XP boxes.
    • VPN and RDP. As long as you're connecting from Windows to Windows, these work pretty damned good. I depend on these and haven't been let down.


    I could probably go on all night but I've had a few drinks and need to crash.

    Welcome to my world.

    k.
  • Bully Tactics (Score:2, Informative)

    by Lord Kano ( 13027 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:37AM (#17249956) Homepage Journal
    Why I hate Microsoft?

    It's their bully tactics. They beat Netscape by employing their monopoly to crush the competition. They violated Stac Inc.'s intellectual property with DblSpace and used their vast reserves to cash to keep from having to make it right. They bought Bungie and delayed the release of Halo for the Mac and Windows platforms just to have an XBox only app at launch. WGA. Software "activation".

    What really burns me up is that after 20 years of Microsoft's horrible behavior, we actually have stupid assholes talking about making Bill Gates President of the USA.

    LK
  • Re:Spyware (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ajehals ( 947354 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:47AM (#17250100) Journal

    Every time I see stuff like this it makes me sigh.

    Yes occasionally you may have a problem with X, and your chosen GUI, this is generally either hardware that isn't working properly or you have some obscure hardware.

    I can not give one example where I have been unable to use *any* graphics card / monitor combo (and I have had some really old / generic kit running purely to play with, and the more usual modern kit for day to day use) with *any* Linux flavour I chose (primarily Debian these days, but also occasionally SUSE or Red Hat).

    Moreover I have never come across an single situation where using a VESA driver didn't work, laptops included.

    This is exactly the same situation as with windows (I have had problems with windows refusing to accept what I thought was a valid driver for an old MGI card, and was stuck in 640x480 at 256colors...) Basically for most people it just works, for some people you may have to find a driver (Windows or Linux) and for some people you will end up with a bodge and a generic driver (again Windows and Linux?.

    Even more interestingly I have found that multi monitor support in Linux - especially with differing graphics cards (i.e. 3 different cards for three different monitors in this case) is far far better than that offered in Windows

    Now in the interests of helping you with your opinion of Linux, I would be honoured to assist you with your graphical problem, feel free to post any relevant info here (or email me (the address is with the post obfusticated but I'm sure you'll get it) and I will take a look and see if I cant prevail where your guys failed. A copy of your X server log, X config file and the output of lspci -X (if it is a PCI card) would help, as would any version info for your kernel and X server. a quick fix - depending on your setup would be to run X -configure as root.

    Oh and no one is forcing you to run Gentoo :) it does exactly what you want it to, but I would only ever use it in very specific roles

  • by toddestan ( 632714 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:50AM (#17250126)
    Do you really expect Microsoft to continue to support old versions of Windows indefinently? Heck, they finally cut Windows 98 off of extended support this year. Those of you running Windows 2000, a 7 year old OS, have nearly 4 years of extended support left. How many other desktop OS's from 1998 were supported in 2006? (Though in defense of Linux and BSD, it's not like the upgrading costs you any money).

    Besides, your Windows 98SE systems will still run until the hardware gives out. You'll probably find that eventually you won't be able to find new software for it, and you might find that evetually you won't be able to put it on a public network. But it'll still work. Though I do see the potential for Microsoft to actually try to kill off Windows XP and later versions by simply refusing to activate it at some point in the future.
  • Re:My .02 cents (Score:4, Informative)

    by Tibor the Hun ( 143056 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @01:04AM (#17250264)
    Waaaaait a fucking second there.
    A guy called JarJarJedi comes to slashdot and bitches about Apple and "Linix", while at the same time glorifying Microsoft's product which he thinks is as good as should be expected, while at the same time he looks at those (Win) computers and sees how often they crash, how virus prone they are and he gets a +4 insightful?

    WTF mods?
    Asleep at the wheel?

    On the offchance that I am wrong, I would then like to say Issa for onessa welcomessa our bizarro-worldssa overlordssa!

    And, to stay on the topic, I think tech help "hates" MS because we get stuck fixing their mistakes on our weekends, afterhours and so on. All while the bosses are superhappy about getting the next round of MS licenses for cheap, and delegating the problems to the tech help. This of course leaves nothing for tech help to do but to constantly put out fires while listening to bitchy users.
    Sure, script kiddies and CS players of east europe LOOOOVE their microsoft, but they don't have to support 100s of bitchy users whose machines are running slow, because microsoft decided to leave the OS completely vulnerable to spyware.

    But I rant. I work for a large Mac shop, so I no longer have the headache of microsoft, and my days are filled with planning for future and improving the network, as opposed to putting out fires. But my hatred for MS is still strong from my previous jobs, and fixing relatives' PCs. Luckily I've got them all switched to Macs, so I no longer spend my holidays cleaning the crap off their machines:) Thank you OS X:)

    And oh yeah, lest I forget, Ballmer is a cretin, and I can't get the image of him squirting on the stage, yelling "developers, developers, developers."
  • by MobyTurbo ( 537363 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @01:12AM (#17250344)
    The parent got modded up, somehow. I think /. mods must be swinging in the other direction just to be "fair and ballanced."

    They created a platform that commoditized the underlying computer and jump-started a PC revolution. An independent developer can reach a market of half a billion desktops with a single binary. How neat is that?
    A developer can also reach many, many operating systems and hardware, including Mac OS X (and even Windows if you add cygwin), by writing POSIX compatable software, with one set of source code. (And even binaries to some extent - many Unixes have binary compatability with negligable overhead, especially with Linux.) I find that much more exciting than Microsoft's monopoly-won success. Why? Because POSIX is a *standard*, even one mandated by the government for purchasing (hence WinNT comes with a horribly crippled POSIX mode from MS included - this can be remedied though by third party products such as the open-source Cygwin). Because of these standards, your software *can* reach a lot of people - internet servers, which are accessed by a billion both users and non-users of Windows.

    What Microsoft did with PC hardware is similiar to what open source does with essential digital infrastructure: it commoditizes them by becoming the one standard reference implementation.
    No, it was a function of IBM making their PC out of off-the-shelf parts and picking Microsoft to make an OS (MS-DOS) after the CEO of Digital Research (CP/M), their first choice (since it was a multi-platform business operating system de-facto standard at the time), didn't arrive at a meeting; legend has it while piloting his private airplane.

    Microsoft told IBM that they had an operating system ready for the 8088, so not to worry. They actually didn't, they bought one from a local business for a few tens of thousands of dollars, then a few years later sued them out of existence for trying to ad multitasking when Microsoft had other plans for MS-DOS at the time.

    Plus open source, though I'm a big fan of it, is not the creator of the standard reference of the internet. That would be Unix, and at one time also TOPS-20. Though I guess Berkeley Unix (BSD), back when it was mostly encumbered, could be counted as open source although you couldn't look at their source unless you had a source license from AT&T for the encumbered bits.

    So far your batting average is pretty poor, but that doesn't surprise me; someone crediting the IBM-PC commodizing hardware to Microsoft could only be refering to statements made by Windows marketing (I hear so often this claim that I think it comes from MS or their journalist lap-dogs and is not independently arived at.)

  • I doubt the same can be said of Linux or MacOS, especially with the latter so efficient at cutting off support of applications with major release.

    Mac OS X does the smart thing. Rather than screw up the OS with legacy support, it provides an emulator for the "classic" Mac OS to run applications inside of. Thus you get the best of both worlds.

    To put it another way, Super Wing Commander works fine on my Mac. The DOS WC games either fail miserably or need tweaking to get working. (Obviously, both require a slowdown utility.) IMHO, the Mac ends up having superior backward compatibility.
  • by felipecs ( 535825 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @01:45AM (#17250644) Homepage

    The problem is that in many respects what is good for Microsoft is not good for consumers. This does not happen in most healthy industries, where firms want to delight consumers. In this case, Microsoft can coerce all us in order to make a profit. Let me point to some examples, it would be nice if we all together could collect a longer list:

    • Word functionality stalled. 10 years ago Word was very much the same as today. We continue to have a horrendous equation editor, no support for bibliographies, poor support for long structured documents, poor support for including figures, etc... At the same time we continue to have to pay hundreds of dollars for this product. OpenOffice, which is superior in many respects, is not widely adopted because it cannot read the .doc proprietary format flawlessly.
    • Microsoft giving money to firms like SCO and Novell and casting a massive shadow of legal doubts over open source. This is grave: Microsoft is threatening developers, large consumers (think CIOs), and at the end of the day diminishing the number of innovations we can all enjoy. Note that even if SCO loses the case, Microsoft already delayed the adoption of many open source projects, hence innovation is being pushed back.
    • Microsoft coercing hardware makers to include Windows. This lowers the number of alternatives the average people can access, and unnecessarily increase the price of computers by adding a software tax.
    • Imposing on us a non-modular architecture. The Windows architecture is the opposite of Unix: in Windows it is very difficult to combine small, specialized programs to act together. This was done on purpose by Microsoft, so they own the whole solution and can charge a higher price for it. The problem with this is that limits the number of innovations that creative, lone programmers can make, by unnecessarily increasing the entry fee to the industry.
    • Microsoft "bribing" hundreds of opinion leaders. Big gifts like travels to Microsoft headquarters, Zune players, tablet PCs, flights to international conferences, give aways of software for countries, etc... is done in a large scale by Microsoft. The idea is to co-opt, or at least neutralize, opinion leaders like bloggers, professors, institutional CIOs, etc. This turns the IT industry, which has conventionally been dominated by engineers into a political arena. This kind of behavior is not did Silicon Valley flourish. We want faster, cheaper, better solutions.

    But Microsoft is not evil, it does what companies do: maximize shareholder value. The problem is that their profit maximization, imposes a tremendous social cost on the rest of us. It is difficult to put a value to the social cost of Microsoft because it means speculating about innovations that have not happened, but could have occurred without a player like Microsoft out there. My gut feeling is that all the money that the Gates foundation can donate will not match the cost that Microsoft will have imposed on society.

    We are the technology leaders of this world, we can stop Microsoft if we want.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 15, 2006 @02:52AM (#17251218)
    the abstraction layers should do a better job of protecting the kernel against even these defects.

    ahhhh it does, what do you think a BSOD is? it is the OS blocking the drivers from doing unacceptable actions, like accessing memory areas it shouldn't. When a driver controlling hardware does something bad the Operating System has very little options, What do you do when the display driver trys to overwrite kernel memory? or the motherboard sata driver crashes with an exception, All any OS can do is stop, a BSOD IS protection and shows that the abstraction layer is there and works, what would be a sign it doesn't work is if you had a monolithic model (like certain other unamed OSes) where the system simply continues on till it dies or freezes or any number of other random results.
  • by Simon80 ( 874052 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @02:57AM (#17251264)
    I agree with you that it's not as well supported as on Windows, but your assertion that you can't provide your own set of drivers with a hardware release is completely false. There are quite a few out of tree drivers, I use one myself for my webcam, and the big difference between that and Windows from the user's perspective is that development tools need to be on the user's machine in order to make it work. Of course, it also happens to be much easier to install those on a Linux system than on Windows.
  • by aero2600-5 ( 797736 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @03:02AM (#17251300)
    My biggest complaint is their inability to follow standards.

    I'm a web developer. I use Firefox, because I like it and it follows standards. So I create a web page with some nice CSS, and it looks perfect. Then, I look at it in IE, and it's not that it just doesn't look as good, it's broken. Internet Explorer has it's own way of handling margins, padding, horizontal rules, etc. They also assign default values to things that shouldn't have them. It's really irritating. Often, the differences cause things to break and render horribly. Then I have to get creative and hack the CSS so that IE doesn't shit a brick when it renders the page. The worst part is that the only reason I can see for them to not follow standards is because they "want to be different".

    The second is lack of options in their software, especially defaults. I'll give you a perfect example. At work, in a corporate environment, we're forced to use Antepo for instant messaging. Besides being a piece of crap that breaks down all the time, it lacks options. If you click on a link, it tries to open Internet Explorer, even if your default browser is Firefox. Better yet, I have IE7 and IE6 installed, so that I can fix the above mentioned rendering problems. IE7 is what's officially installed on the system, but Antepo will open links in IE6. What the fuck is that? And how about a line-break? You hit shift-enter, and you would expect your text to continue on the next line. Not in Antepo. You get three line breaks, and you can't do shit about it. On, and about the links, you can't click on a link someone has sent you unless they place a space behind the link. What the fuck is that?

    This is just my list of complaints from THIS WEEK ALONE.

    Bottom line: I hate Microsoft because they can't design software worth a shit.

    Aero

    Some more I just thought of. IE7 breaks Dreamweaver 8. Dreamweaver 8 can no longer store passwords and logins once you install IE7. I don't know if this is the fault of Macromedia(Adobe) or Microsoft, but it's fucking stupid. Also, whoever designed Microsoft Frontpage needs to be burned at the stake. If I ever catch those motherfuckers..
  • by CJSpil ( 166214 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @03:04AM (#17251312)
    The reason Paintbrush is the best application they've ever written is because Microsoft didn't write it.

    I've got installation media for Windows 2.03 kicking around somewhere which came with my first Microsoft mouse and it's actually ZSoft PC Paintbrush which was bundled with the mouse.

    The mention of ZSoft was dropped in Windows 3.0 and apart from support for things like GIF and JPG now, the application has changed very little since Windows 2 (Well if it ain't broke...)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 15, 2006 @03:11AM (#17251354)
    How many times have you heard the word "innovation" from a microsoftie?
    (uncountable)

    How much money does it spend on research?
    http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/06/204 2218 [slashdot.org]
    http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/120606-micro soft-research.html [networkworld.com]

    How many times has it innovated?

    http://www.dwheeler.com/innovation/microsoft.html [dwheeler.com]
    http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/opinions/msinnova te.html [harvard.edu]
    http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/innovation.sh tml [vcnet.com]
    http://www.mcmillan.cx/innovation.html [mcmillan.cx]

    This last dude gave up, Last updated 27 June 1999. Basically, it came down to a list of all accepted innovation nominations compared to two accepted: Microsoft Bob (doubtful but accepted) and the fucking talking paper clip. Which is basically Bob redone as a more annoying Help file.

    all I did was a google search for "microsoft innovate" without quotes, and I came up with ZERO microsoft sites, and a whole bunch which put "innovate" into the quotes it deserves.

    Worthless software company. The only things they did right are SQL server (derived from Sybase, and even though it was apparently recoded it shares similar syntax), which actually has a decent track record on security issues, and of course Visual Studio (IMO until the .NET crapfest, but even that is well done, just a personal preference, except that they are trying to win against Java using an interpreted framework, but Visual Basic was completely reengineered and basically thrown away?) (but it uses a third party C/C++ library from Dinkumware, don't think they came up with any of that themselves) (oh and they didn't make the compiler either, they made it worse). But without microsoft we wouldn't need either of these. I believe they don't suck because they were made by developers, for developers.

    Dinkumware info, apparently there is a license dispute so that MS can't package the updates in a visual studio service pack, so Dinkumware tells which lines to edit and how:
    http://www.dinkumware.com/vc_fixes.html [dinkumware.com]

    std::string causes corruption. Sorry we can't fix it, upgrade to .NET or buy a C++ library:
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/813810 [microsoft.com]
    "When you build applications in Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 that use the supplied Standard Template Library (STL), memory corruption may occur, or your computer may stop responding. "

    Origins of MSC compiler
    http://www.nimh.org/microsoft/ [nimh.org]
    "`This is just a historical note about the C compiler microsoft sells. In the late 80's I was developing C programs under DOS using the Lattice C compiler. One day I got a letter from Lattice saying they were out of the C compiler business, I should contact microsoft for support. I found out that microsoft bought the compiler and exclusive rights to sell it from Lattice. "

    O man I just pissed myself off again rehashing all that ineptitude.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 15, 2006 @03:15AM (#17251382)
  • by r00b ( 923145 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @03:16AM (#17251394)
    Need I refresh your memory. slashdot [slashdot.org]
  • by ultranova ( 717540 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @03:35AM (#17251516)

    Part of the reason why their job is mind-numbingly complicated is because they need to support legasy software. A whole lot of 16-bit DOS apps written 15 years ago still run on current versions of Windows. These are not ports, or recompilations, but the same binaries. I doubt the same can be said of Linux or MacOS, especially with the latter so efficient at cutting off support of applications with major release.

    I guess you've never heard of DOSEMU [dosemu.org], a program that uses the Linux kernel call "vm86" to run 16-bit DOS programs in the vm86 mode of 386-compatible processors ? Most 16-bit DOS applications I've tried on it have worked just fine.

    Or you could use DOSBox [sourceforge.net], which is a complete emulator (meaning it emulates the processor too, unlike DOSEMU). The odd DOS app that didn't work under DOSEMU works fine under DOSBox.

    It's the support for Windows applications (via Wine [winehq.com]) that is less than perfect under Linux, but it is improving. Then again, it could hardly be getting worse ;).

  • by Dion ( 10186 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @04:05AM (#17251694) Homepage
    It sounds as though you have no idea what MS has done and just thinks of the company as a big cuddly teddybear that plucks money from the outstretched hands of eager customers and that the only reason that people could possbily dislike MS is that they have collected a lot of money.

    Nothing could be further from the truth; I in general don't care if a company makes money, unless I happen to own it, so that's not it.

    The problem with MS has nothing to do with money or envy.

    The problem with MS is that they:
    * Pervert standards (ActiveX, J++, Kerberos, OfficeXML, aso)
    * Lie to customers (wait for us, we're the leader)
    * Lock in customers with secret protocols and formats.
    * Blackmail non-buyers bosses.
    * Conduct smear campains against people who'd rather use competing products
    * Lobby and threaten politicians who are thinking about open source.
    * Do everything they can to limit customer choice to their own product,
        illegally if they have to.

    MS is generally a drag on the industry and we would all be better off if it was destroyed.
  • by Skreems ( 598317 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @04:21AM (#17251780) Homepage
    If a shareholder believes that a company is not acting in their best interests, they can sue. So yes, it is a law.
  • Re:Three Words (Score:5, Informative)

    by EtherMonkey ( 705611 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @04:40AM (#17251896)
    Do you have proof? Did you pay for windows before XP.

    I am a live dinosaur. I have owned and used every MS OS version since MS-DOS 2.1. I beta tested Windows 1.0.

    • MS-DOS 5.0 was $29.
    • MS-Windows 2.0 was $49.00
    • MS-Windows 3.0 introduced CD key. Price went up to $89.
    • Windows 98 introduced new 25-digit CD key. Price went up to $129.
    • Windows XP introduced Product Activation. Full version (XP Pro) is $299.
    • Windows Vista introduced more stringent Activiation. Full version is $399 for Ultimate, but the full set of features will only be available to Enterprise customers who sign volume purchase agreements and pre-pay for 2 years of upgrades, (Software Assurance), whether or not these upgrades materialize.

    Ok, granted it is not doubling every time, but this IS Slashdot, and I am allowed poetic license.

    Like what products [have been added then removed, and then sometimes sold as add-ons[

    How about Microsoft Windows Antivirus: Included free in 3.0/3.1 versions, removed from 3.11. Now sold as Microsoft OneCare. How about a calendar application, which later was integrated with an Email application and became the first version of MS-Outlook in Windows 3.11, removed from Windows 98, and now sold separately? How about backup, which has been in and out in so many different ways that I lost track?

    >>I could give more specifics, but I'm under non-disclosure.
    Really, you didn't even get specific about the ones you mentioned.
    Well, it's a really old and broad non-disclosure. ;^)
  • Re:Who did better? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Skrynesaver ( 994435 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @04:45AM (#17251926) Homepage
    (just not my mom - freecell's clone apparently is worse)
    Install PySol, I have and haven't had two words out of my wife in weeks ;)
  • by Bacon Bits ( 926911 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @05:47AM (#17252296)
    Windows does use emulation for legacy apps. It uses the NTVDM (NT Virtual DOS Machine) for DOS apps and WoWExec (Windows-on-Windows) for 16-bit Windows apps. Their 64-bit OSs have WoW64, which emulates a 32-bit machine.
  • by ridgecritter ( 934252 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @06:39AM (#17252582)
    OK - When I started my first tech company, in 1984, we used then-new IBM PCs with (ta-daa) MSDOS. It was a royal pain. My memory of using MSDOS was that whenever I used my IBM PC, I sat in front of it with a pile of manuals on my lap and the desk. With lots of luck, patience, and time, I might eventually get the machine to do what I needed. So one long-ago Thursday morning, I came in and all three of our IBM PCs were toes-up and gasping, each for a different reason, but all MS-software related, not due to hardware. We were in trouble. My friend and co-founder went home and brought in his new Mac Classic. I sat down and began to use the thing - a couple of hours later, I hopped in my car and went out to buy four new machines. Next Monday morning, I took our three IBM systems to the local high school and left them in the Principal's office as a donation - which, come to think of it, was a disservice to the students. I remember that within the first week, I'd misplaced the user's manuals for the Macs, and it didn't matter! So what did I learn from this? I learned that someone cared to design computer products that served me, the user, to help me move uphill in my struggle against entropy. And by contrast, I learned that MS didn't find it worthwhile to take that road. Every company I've done since has used the Mac. During the following quarter of a century, I've checked in on MS from time to time to see if they had gained any ground in providing products I could integrate into my work. Every time, the answer was no. My antipathy against Microsoft is manifold and complex, and includes the following: a. The Microsoft OS was designed by people (Bill, mainly) who had no care for, nor understanding of, customers who weren't interested in computers per se, but who just wanted a tool to get new things done. This orientation has continued to the present. At a time when Apple has long since shown how to field an OS and hardware that amplify the users' talents, MS continues to complexify, obfuscate, cripple, and compromise their products in the name of their perceived self-interest above serving their customers. A founder determines his/her company's mindset: Bill cared next to nothing for MS's customers, and hired accordingly for twenty years. And here we are. b. The Microsoft business strategy was designed by people (Bill, mainly) who took as their highest objective to gather to MS the entire blossoming personal computing market, whatever it took, regardless of the merits: competitors? take 'em out with FUD, not superior products; security? screw it, it costs too much to re-do our spaghetti code, patch it with a Band-Aid and shove it down their throats; whoa! what is this FOSS you speak of? We better embrace/extend/FUD/buy legislators, judges to drown this sucker so we don't have to actually improve our products. Make it so, Steve. Oh, you need more chairs? OK, whatever. c. Think of all the times you've sat through the BSOD. Think of all the times you had to use . Think of the $ you've paid out for antivirus apps. Think of the times when your legal, bought-and-paid-for copy of XP failed the Windows Genuine Advantage Nazi ID check (Youah papers, pliss!). Recall the time you've spent helping your friends, family, co-workers, colleagues, fixing freezes, recovering data, purging viruses, spyware, trojans, etc. - and ask yourself, with all the money and brains that MS has had over the years, is there really any excuse for their poor product quality and their heedless expenditure of your irreplacible time? Specifics, you ask? Well, yeah, there are one or two...thousand. How about the time I linked a Word document to an Excel spreadsheet, only to find that for every single value in the Excel sheet, Word would open Excel, import the value, then close Excel and move on to the next value. Look ahead and keep Excel open until all the values were imported? Naaahhh. Our user has infinite time, so let's make it take an hour instead of two minutes to import those Excel values. OK, further on that them
  • by maroberts ( 15852 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @07:08AM (#17252748) Homepage Journal
    Paint is good enough for most basic needs, but Notepad is much too basic. One of my first actions is to load up a decent replacement for NotePad, whether its CrimsonEditor, Notepad++, GVim for Windows, Nedit...

    Both applications have barely evolved over the last 15 years, but could have offered a lot more functionality without becoming bloated.
  • by dltaylor ( 7510 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @08:06AM (#17253094)
    My antipathy toward Microsoft goes back to C80, M80, & L80: extremely buggy and no support.

    Most of all, though, Microsoft changed, in a totally negative way, the herd instincts of corporate management. In the pre-Microsoft success days, many companies tried to produce quality products, and most others paid lip service to the concept, since it was considered a positive selling point. However, since Microsoft got lucky with the IBM contract for DOS, shipping beta (DOS 2 & 4, W95, W98FE, NT4) or even alpha (DOS 5, ME, NT3x, various NT4 service packs), code to customers, using them as testers and charging them for the privilege, it has become a standard corporate mantra that it does not matter how bad a product is, one must merely "establish market share" to succeed. We can all see how well that has worked for the American based automobile manufacturers (the two of them that remain).

    What the suits fail to understand is how Microsoft got to where they are (not the underhanded and illegal parts, those, they do understand). When the PC was released there was almost no rational justification for buying one. All the available software (Word Processors, Spreadsheets, Databases, terminal emulators, and games) ran on Apple IIs or CP/M-80 boxes. Additionally, PCs and the software were much more expensive and significantly slower. The difference was that "corporate buyers" wouldn't buy Apples, but would willingly piss away shareholder's wealth on PCs, 'cause "you couldn't be fired for buying IBM" (pure bureauratic cowardice). Once the PCs ended up on middle manager's desktops, helped by a generous policy on software piracy, they would buy one to continue work at home. This created a secondary market for software on those machines, in households with available funds, for games and other "home use" software, like screen savers, once the top-selling category of all software, leading to where we find ourselves now.

    Bit of background: IBM originally developed the PC because the "Big Blue Suits" in Austin were very peeved at seeing so many Apple IIs in IBM's headquarters. Middle managers found that they could get results faster using the spreadsheets and databases on those than sending jobs down to the IT department. Having created the product for internal use, there was very little cost involved in pushing them through the normal sales channels. Some success there led to expansion into the "office machine" dealers market (IBM made good typewriters).

    A bit more: the PC has the worst-possible CPU architecture that could be coerced into stumbling along because IBM purchasing selected the CPU vendor, not engineering. The engineers had selected the Zilog Z8000 (not Z80) which had multiple orthogonal registers and a very powerful instruction set (at the time) for them. The engineers liked it because it was conceptually similar to the mainframe CPU and quite powerful (first UNIX, Version 6, as I remember, that I logged into was on a Z8000). Purchasing liked to have "leverage" over outside vendors, so they selected Intel, about to go under due the poor perfomance and complicated interface of the 8080, compared to the 6502 and 6800/6809, while Zilog was under the umbrella of a small company called "Exxon", where IBM had no leverage.
  • Since you asked (Score:2, Informative)

    by CaptainZapp ( 182233 ) * on Friday December 15, 2006 @08:11AM (#17253128) Homepage
    What else would I use to edit, crop and save screen shots when I'm writing documentation?

    The Gimp [gimp.org]

  • 4 very bad things (Score:2, Informative)

    by shd666 ( 451529 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @08:14AM (#17253142) Homepage
    I have 5 very strong objections against Microsoft:

    1. Unlawful monopolistic practices have led to a situation where it is hard to buy a laptop without Windows licence (for running other OSes)

    2. Their technology is simply bad in all respects except C#.

    The operating system has thousands of seemingly random places of configuration files, many of which are not understandable by text editor inspection.

    The C programming API lacks definite power of UNIX filesystems/names (how many times have you seen a notice that says a file is reserved by some application?), that is, good separation of dentries and inodes.

    The rest of the Win32 API is mostly random chunk that is hard or inconvenient to use. See

    http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/spinellis97critique.ht ml [psu.edu]

    Ironically a more advanced API (the NP API) was instroduced with the NT, but it was left undocumented by Microsoft and thus it is not used for applications.

    Furthermore, their technology is FULL of hacks and workarounds, but the main reason for bugginess of their system is BAD design and implementation.

    3. They hostile towards operating systems by obfuscating and hiding their file formats and protocols. Think of Windows file and print services, Windows Media, Microsoft Word, ... Interoperatibility is MOST important for successful use of technology because without that it becomes very hard to build more sophisticated systems that require components from various parties.

    4. They are hostile towards technology improvement. Windows OS (but mostly applications) is practically useful with only x86 line processors, which slows down development of microprocessors. Windows is not even a good OS to take advantage of x86-64, let alone Itanium that they dumped. Fortunately, F/OSS operating systems made it possible to test and use those better processors with real applications from very early development to this day.

    Also, the OS is a mess because they have REFUSED to fix it; the main drive has been money through gradual backwards compatible changes that has added to the mess.

    5. The Windows culture is hostile towards maintainable systems. Where is the package management system that would be so desperately needed by ALL users of Windows? It would be simple to create a distributed package management system like apt in Debian, which would ease updates and installing software for all parties. Having a package management system would not even require Microsoft, but why hasn't Microsoft done it? Do they just hate convenience, or why is their update system such useless?

    Summary: All in all, Microsoft has been harmful to all parties surrounding their operating system: the hardware and software people, consumers, users and administrators.

    PS. sorry for "gain saying", it would take hours and hours to write comprehensive explanations of these points.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 15, 2006 @08:31AM (#17253252)
    Why would Israel drop the Mac if Microsoft didn't support Hebrew? ~S

    He made an incomplete statement. Microsoft continued to support Hebrew but not in the Mac version of MS Office. The goal apparently to get people to drop Mac and switch to Windows where Office does support Hebrew. Israel offered to pay the costs of keeping Office up to date on the Mac.

  • by Val314 ( 219766 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @08:56AM (#17253454)
    Classic is dead. it doesnt work on Intel-Macs...
  • by Branko ( 806086 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @09:30AM (#17253760)
    They emulate Intel's x86 architecture.

    For that matter, Intel emulates Intel's x86 architecture as much as AMD does (x86 instructions are translated into smaller RISC-like instructions on all modern CPUs).

    In a sense, "instruction set" is to a modern CPU the same thing as "API" is to a piece of software.

  • by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @09:48AM (#17253950) Journal

    If you need to run Classic apps, then try SheepShaver. It emulates a PowerPC Mac, and runs System 7.5.2 to 9.0.4, and even supports things like copy and paste with native OS X apps. If you need to run older applications, try Basilisk II, which emulates a Motorola 68k Mac, and runs anything up to System 8.something.

    There comes a point where it just makes more sense to run legacy apps in emulations. I can run most of my old DOS apps in DosBOX on OS X a lot better than I can run them in Windows (unless I install DOSBox there too). Win16 programs tend to run fine with WINE.

  • by Riverman5 ( 1018024 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @10:25AM (#17254508)
    My main gripe right now is that IE7 was forced onto many people's computers as an automatic update, and it has broken nearly every single website I have put into production, and now I have to go back and fix rendering/scripting issues that only affect IE7, and the more of these I fix, the more obvious to me how lousy this browser is, but hell what can you do? 25% of the visitors are using it now. It also has one of the most ridiculous interfaces of any browser ever. I was actually looking forward to it, i figured (for some reason) that it would improve upon IE6, but it hasn't.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 15, 2006 @10:50AM (#17254948)
    Why does anybody think this is a "big deal"? I run on a "legacy" operating system from IBM. It was originally designed in the 1960s on hardware with 32 bit registers and 24 bit addressing. That hardware and software has evolved to 64 bit registers and 64 bit addressing. And the programs that I wrote, in assembler, back in the 1970s (when I started) still run. Without recompiling or changing.
  • by IIsMeYouIsNot ( 991014 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @11:04AM (#17255178)
    Just a Few:

    1. As a college student I paid under $20 for my copy of WinXP, but would have had to pay ~$45 for MacOS X. Although this doesn't tend to defeat your argument, it sure does lower one of the reasons not to use Windows and makes OS X the one which needs to prove itself.

    2. I know how to use Windows. These were skills I built up before ever owning my own PC, mostly when I was living at home using my parents PC, and my Dad used Windows because it was built on DOS, the earliest OS he knew. What you say above is right once you get to know how to use Windows you don't want to anymore, but alas I've already paid for it and have a box which does pretty much everything I call on it to do, so there isn't any reason to need another PC or to switch.

    3. I have very rarely been called on to know/learn a piece of software that doesn't run on Windows. I have on the other hand been called on to know/learn Power Point, Word, Excel, InDesign, and many others. This is excluding text editors run on Linux machines for my CS classes, but then they haven't cared which one I use so on WinXP at home I use Notepad++, and in lab on Linux I use nedit.

    4. If I want a Linux box I'll build one and will be able to do it on the cheap. So I'm not worried about getting one right now, when I'm college style poor, I'd rather have steak once in a while.

    5. My friends/relatives/co-workers/group-members know how to use Windows and thus I don't have to try and explain Linux everytime they want to do something on my computer; this happens quite frequently I might add.

    6. The games, I know you tried to blow this off with consoles but thats not a valid argument, because as a cheap/poor college student I can't afford to buy an XBox 360 or a PS3 or a Wii or whatever. And I don't enjoy console gaming as much either so atleast let me have my own preferences in that realm, without just telling me that my preference doesn't matter. I don't own any consoles and don't really plan on buying one for a good while.

    As a note I would not consider myself a Windows "fanboi" but I do feel Windows is right for me, right now, and I feel anyone telling me I'm wrong is really in no place to say so. Your choice of OS really boils down to circumstances and that is all there really is to it.
  • by zacronos ( 937891 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @12:32PM (#17256844)
    I've never heard of a grandmother, aunt, uncle, child, or otherwise require training to use the basic software that comes with windows.
    I have. I've taught a "CS 101: Introduction to Computing" course a few times, and that's what that class is largely about. It's mostly populated with Business students, but generally has a scattering of others as well.

    I had a student one semester -- a middle-aged woman -- who struggled with even the simplest tasks. A lot of it was UI issues. She often knew what she needed to do, and even more-or-less how to do it, but she just couldn't figure out the sequence of mouse clicks and drags necessary. She worked hard, practiced and studied like no one else in the class, and did decently well on the written tests -- but the lab exams gave her a ton of trouble (the lab exams were open-note, open-reference, even open-Google exams). She wrote down detailed notes for herself, and asked me for help during every lab, but invariably if there were any detail she failed to write down, she would have to struggle for 5-10 minutes during the exam to figure it out. She wasn't taking the class because she needed it, she was taking it *because* she had so much trouble with computers, and wanted to get better. She was motivated, but the UI just wasn't intuitive to her. She seemed to be of average intelligence, and her husband actually worked at IBM (which was part of her motivation to improve, actually).

    Granted, I've never seen anyone else struggle with the Windows UI like she did, but I had others who lost points due to UI issues as often as from ignorance about what to do. Of course, I'm also not trying to say that I think she would have done significantly better with another UI -- I just don't know.
  • by Punchinello ( 303093 ) on Friday December 15, 2006 @01:06PM (#17257456)
    You think there is a negative bias against MS because you read Slashdot.

    According to Forbe's Magazine 2006 survey, Microsoft is the 6th most admired company on the globe. Here's how the top 10 look:

    1 General Electric
    2 Toyota Motor
    3 Procter & Gamble
    4 FedEx
    5 Johnson & Johnson
    6 Microsoft
    7 Dell
    8 Berkshire Hathaway
    9 Apple Computer
    10 Wal-Mart Stores

    I personally think MS is terrific. I use many of their products and make a living designing and implementing their server and desktop solutions. Like any company I can point to questionable choices in their product development. But when I look at the big picture I truly admire what they have done and continue to do.

    Nothing evil to see here.

All seems condemned in the long run to approximate a state akin to Gaussian noise. -- James Martin

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