Is Ubuntu a Serious Desktop Contender? 463
Exter-C asks: "2006 was the year that a large amount of people started to talk Ubuntu as a possible contender for the Enterprise Linux desktop. There are several key issues that have to be raised: Is Ubuntu/Canonical really capable of maintaining Dapper Drake (6.06 LTS) for 5 years? I know this is not a new question but the evidence after 6 months seems to be negative. A case in point is the 4-5+ day delay for critical updates to packages like Firefox. Given that such a large percentage of people use their desktop systems on the web critical, browser vulnerabilities seem to be one of the core pieces of a secure desktop environment (user stupidity excluded). Can Ubuntu/Canonical really compete with the likes of Red Hat, who had patches available (RHSA-2006:0758) the day that the updates came out?"
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
You can fix needing to run your cd burner as sudo by either:
easy way: SUID root your CD burner software (major security risk though - atleast in unix terms, no worse than always loging in as admin under windows)
slightly harder but much more sensible way: add group rw permissions to the CD burner device and make sure your user is a member of that group (I'm actually a little surprised and disappointed that that is not the default on ubuntu...)
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:2, Informative)
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
2 If you are talking about Visual Studios, ok, I understand that, but for the rest, Mono works quite nicely.
3 I've had that experience too, but I think it's partially due to the generic compilation used. I have not had that issue in either FreeBSD or Gentoo, where I had the exact opposite experience, when handling multiple tasks, they are much more responsive than windows.
4 No argument there
5 very little argument there. With WINE you can get some nice options, and if you are willing to search long/hard enough, you can find nice OSS options for linux/BSD
As for the video, again I'd blame Ubuntu, it is one of the slowest distros I've used.
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:1, Informative)
1) As mentioned by another poster, that "issue" can be "fixed" by adjusting permissions. I'm not sure why you think typing 5 extra keystrokes is a big deal.
2) Well, um, duh? If you're in MS's camp to being with, you're going to need their toys to play along.
3) I've never had that experience. Though again, the first thing I did with my new laptop was wipe it of windows and the gig of Dell preinstalled ickyness (though, if I was still using XP, I'd have wiped it and installed a fresh XP install without the Dell ickyness anyway).
4) I have an intel 2200BG card; I entered my wpa key in the little box which asks for it and thats really all there is to it. I turn on my computer now and it connects.
5) Well, thats your option which I don't share. I find Linux to have better software options, other than in the games realm though I think there I'd be more likely to buy a wii.
Changing operating systems based on the speed of a Halo trailer leads me to believe that you're trolling. I've never had a problem with the H.264 stuff from Apple although I guess the Halo stuff could be WMV.
I don't see anything in any of your points why a normal user couldn't carry out office functions and web browsing under linux. Especially considering that some of the top web browsers (Opera & Firefox) run on both OS's and some of the better office apps (Abiword & OpenOffice) also run on both.
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Maybe.. (Score:3, Informative)
LinuxMint is the new Ubuntu (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.linuxmint.com/ [linuxmint.com]
Yes, with reservations (Score:3, Informative)
However, it's a double edged sword. The Ubuntu people have apparently thought out a number of different usage scenarios, and an end-user following any of those can do so quickly and easily. The down side is when you're trying to do anything (and I do mean anything) outside of the box...it becomes a nightmare.
For people who want their computer to be an appliance, with only a few highly specialised uses, Ubuntu could meet their needs...and given that this description fits most end-users, that is the reason why I could see it becoming/remaining the most popular Linux distribution. For anyone who wants anything more versatile, however (and for anyone who cares about a system which follows UNIX design philosophy - I'm talking about the stuff here [catb.org]) both Ubuntu and Debian are to be avoided, in my own mind.
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
3) I hate to say it, but virtual desktops and fluxbox leave my desktop a lot less cluttered and much easier to work with than windows does out of the box, and my computer is under load from its graphics a lot less often
I use XFCE for my XUBUNTu desktop but I have not found a way to "tile windows" and "cascade windows" or anything equivalent, I found the ION [cs.tut.fi] window manager which pretty much an overkill solution for what I want to do (just automatically tile more than one file browser and terminal window...).
4)Things like configuring wireless interfaces were endlessly confusing. Theres about 4 different places to enter a wireless key - but only one of them accepts my home key, as the rest claim it is too long! With linux I just typed it in and it worked.
Can you name the FOUR places where you had to enter your wep key? you just need to run the network wizzard and it is done, in contrast with Linux where, well, it depends the distribution you are using the program you will have to use but only *if* your wireless network card is supported (my notebook network card just keeps turning on and off but does not works... oh and I have the "supported drivers" and the firmware... go figure).
he final thing which did it was when I wanted to play a video - WMP has gone through many funcitonality decrements over the years, and when I finally switched to mplayer it coped a lot better with partially missing files, keyboard shortcuts and general niceness than the MS equivilant.
hmmmm... I use VLC in Linux to play movies etc, I had to install it (as the applications that come with Xubuntu are terrible to watch video, and ubuntu and on any other distro you MUST download all the "restricted", "no open source" "devil" "god forbid them" whatever codecs). Oh! and the installation was a time consuming... even to make it play the same types of video I *used* to play with the same program on WINDOWS. So yeah, nice troll there.
1) I got sick to death of having to install different programs to burn CDs correctly, with the drag and drop interface terribly annoying and confusing.
Why? just intall Nero the NERO Burning ROM CD that came with your CD-RW (or DVD) recorder. If you bought your computer chances are they are already installed. if you pirated windows just pirate it from the same site. Not that I did not need to install a program to burn in Xubuntu... oh! and it was a PAIN in the ass to burn with more than the lousy 8.3 format and more than 7 nested directories... I had finally to sucumb and download KDE's K3B program which I dont like because each time I have to start it it takes ages while it loads all the KDE crap (talk about memory hog) like kdesyscoca and whatever else.
2) A lot of software I like as a programming hobbiest is not easily available with a simple command like apt-get install
Name 1 (ONE) programming language or software that you can run on Linux that can NOT be run on Windows XP.
hello?
Thank you.
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ubuntu is my desktop (Score:1, Informative)
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:3, Informative)
First, Ubuntu has not required root to burn since Breezy Badger. The "back to XP for my childish trailers guy" was lying on this one or doesn't know what he installed.
Second, I find it funny when people complain about Linux usability. Have you ever tried to burn a CD out of the box on Winblows? Oh wait... you need to spend $90 on Nero??? Even then, it takes 100MB of RAM and 2 hours to actually _find_ the "burn" option. For all the people that complain about options in KDE, there are about 20 times as many in Nero.
Winblows won't be desktop ready until I can right-click on an ISO and burn WITHOUT extra software!
Burning a CD on Ubuntu *doesn't* require sudo (Score:3, Informative)
I have no idea why he requires sudo, but I have no problem using GnomeBaker to burn CDs without sudo.
The permissions look correct to me, out of the box. I've never touched them.
cdrom:x:24:haldaemon,colin
brw-rw---- 1 root cdrom 22, 0 2006-12-27 14:07
Re:Ubuntu is my desktop (Score:5, Informative)
Simply because most programmers (such as Microsoft programmers) use ENUM values in it, so you end up with entries such as "Policy DWORD 3", this gem from
Contrast that with damn near any native Unix app (such as Apache) where all the configuration files are in a human readable form where you can easily cut and paste examples from the internet, easily copy to another machine, manage it from any text editor, etc. (I'm not saying that the apache config file is the best format, but it does work.) Instead of having to hand-compute bitmasks, you use words.
While you CAN use regedt32 (regedit) to partially "manage" settings, the majority of the contents are useless as the registry is first and foremost designed to ONLY be managed via the various applications via the API it and Not by humans.
The registry is a double-edged sword. It can be an efficient way for applications to save and restore state / settings, but at the expense of making it Very difficult to manage outside of the application.
Many Unix applications are beginning to use XML files to replace the old way. I'm on the fence about that, but still prefer it over the Windows Registry.
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:5, Informative)
Name 1 (ONE) programming language or software that you can run on Linux that can NOT be run on Windows XP.
Re:I wouldn't say that (Score:3, Informative)
The most popular distros are those that are easy to setup up out of the box. They recognize your hardware for you and use a generic kernel that supports a lot of things. Meaning it supports stuff you don't need it to support usually. These distros are easier to use but they get there by sacrificing resources and speed usually.
Re:Ready for the desktop? (Score:3, Informative)
This will never happen until Microsoft's monopoly diminishes to the point where it's no longer feasible to provide individual drivers for each of the main operating systems since they can't count on selling enough units solely with Windows drivers, and the vendors must fully implement standards supported by the most popular OSes, and/or a common driver framework is implemented (if there's a market, there's most certainly a way (hint: there's no market until Windows marketshare diminishes substantially)). Until that glorious day of level playingfield bliss, the best you can do is check for Linux compatibility when you buy hardware even if you have only a vague inkling that you might someday install Linux, and if you intend to install Linux, buy a Linux system instead of a Windows one. Or at least one that doesn't come up as a Windows sale. Stand up and be counted. Yes, I'm a hypocrite because it wasn't easy 3 years ago (and it's likely not an immediatley simple task, although it seems much better nowadays at least with a No OS option).
I couldn't agree more. I'd give my right arm for a fully-licensed, fully-supported QuickTime, WindowsMedia, Real, MPEG, CSS, and other format CD. I don't know why someone doesn't do this!
That said, your portrayal of hunting down codecs isn't accurate for Ubuntu at all. Most of the software you're looking for is available in the Metaverse--if not the Universe--repository, which is only a few short clicks away (it's included by default, but not enabled). The few remaining, legally questionable codecs (namely libcss and win32codecs) are readily documented and generally require only one more repository, so it's not like "spending hours and hours and hours downloading just bits and pieces of the solutions from all over the place to get them working," it's more like searching the Ubuntu community wiki for the locations of the repositories (it's even in the FAQ!) and spending a few minutes adding the repository in. Rather, the quote reminds me of the peanut butter and jelly in a squeeze bottle comedy routine: Regarding assembling a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and the apparent necessity of combining the peanut butter and jelly in a squeeze bottle, Regan remarks [wikiquote.org] 'Some guy going, "You know I could go for a sandwich, but uh, I'm not gonna open TWO jars! I can't be opening and closing all kinds of jars... cleaning, who KNOWS how many knives!?!"'
All of that said, if any Linux vendors are listening, PLEASE put the proprietary codecs in the pay-for versions of your software!!!!, if not the free ones
I use Ubuntu (Score:3, Informative)
Wine works pretty well for some Windows apps and games, but I use the latest version from Wine's deb repository, not Ubuntu's. I haven't needed to use Wine recently, as I don't play a lot of games anymore.
I've avoided using the Firefox in Ubuntu because in the past it has always been much slower and more problematic than the official builds I download from mozilla.org.
Ubuntu Edgy for me has been less reliable than Dapper, in exchange for more experimental features, hence the name Edgy. Everything so far has had a workaround though.
Totem is a surprisingly good DVD player, when playing discs that don't require libdvdcss.
I use MPlayer for playing most videos. I naturally had to get the win32 codecs from a third party source, but otherwise it works well.
On one system I had to configure grub to boot with the noapic kernel option to prevent Ubuntu from freezing at random times. It's a hardware related problem.
I was able to add kubuntu (kde) and xubuntu (xfce) to my ubuntu system without much difficulty, apart from them overwriting each other's artwork. Even with all that, I was able to upgrade from Dapper to Edgy without losing anything, though it took some careful work.
DosEMU runs dos programs natively in a window with better performance and compatibility than Windows could ever offer, though I think it took some extraordinary measures to get it installed right on Dapper. I can't remember what though.
At home I have Ubuntu on my main desktop (which I bought with no OS) and Windows Server 2003 on my second (cheaper) desktop for the sole reason that I got a free 1 year msdn subscription a few months ago. If being a serious desktop contender means you can use it professionally as your primary (or only) desktop, then Ubuntu has been since its first release. But having been previously comfortable with Visual Studio, I must admit I've been less productive than I was before, lacking a good (imho) alternative, even though Linux solves the main complaints I've had about Windows. Linux is less stressful and easier to administer at least. I don't curse at it every hour. And I don't plan to give MS another dime after all they've done in recent years.
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:3, Informative)
Same here. In fact, I was pleased to discover that in Ubuntu 6.10, all I needed to to was right-click on a disc and select "Copy disc" to make an ISO. Cool!
But if you do need to run a program with elevated permissions in GNOME, the right way to do it is with gksudo. You will get a prompt in the GUI to enter your password. If you add the NOPASSWD option to your
My only complaint is that getting wireless going in Linux can be a PITA when things go wrong. The GUI tools lack the verbosity needed when there are problems, but the command-line tools are extremely complex. Windows XPSP2 is much better in this regard (SP1 blows), but even Windows can be a major headache-- ever try to find the right wireless drivers in Windows? IBM often has 3-4 different wireless chipsets for each 'machine type' (what is the f'ing point of having different machine types, then?), and it's up to you to find the right one. OpenBSD's config utility is the best in this regard; drivers are automatically loaded and you can easily configure them with ifconfig [openbsd.org], which should be familiar to most Unix users.
That said, we're looking at Ubuntu as a serious alternative to Windows for our next round of desktop upgrades here at work. My impression is that there will be less of a learning curve than with Vista or the Mac OS, and we will get the additional benefit of being able to eek out a couple more years of life from our existing hardware.
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:3, Informative)
Lack of software used to be one of my main reasons for not using Windows on the desktop. It is no longer the case, thanks to Cygwin, and many other porting efforts. But as you said, even though most software I use is actually available for Windows, hunting it down, installing it and keeping it upgraded is a major pain. Stuff that's installed out of the box on Linux, or that is available for an easy installation from centralized repositories, has to be downloaded from 50 different websites and installed in 10 different ways on Windows. And then you have to keep track of upgrades, and with most upgrades, manually download them and install them again.
Another huge problem on Windows is integration. On Linux, all software I use on daily basis typically works right out of the box. On a new machine, I usually have to just copy few configuration files from an old machine to get the exact same configuration. Things work nicely with each other, and with the system, out of the box.
On Windows, some applications understand Cygwin paths, some don't. Each application has it's own user interface, different from all the other ones. After installing a new application, I have to find where it got installed, and manually add the directory to the $PATH. Then you upgrade to a new version, which installs to a different place, and you have to edit all the places that pointed to the old version. Some applications work with the TXmouse, some don't. Dtto with VirtuaWin. Each application that needs a scripting language, a shell, ghostscript or any other interpreter installs its own copy. As a result, I have maybe 20 copies of python, 10 copies of ghostscript, two versions of TeX, 15 shells, 5 different seds, each using different configuration, each behaving slightly differently, and you are never sure which one of them is going to be called. Lately some installers have been searching the system trying to find out if various pieces of supporting software are present, and installing them only if they cannot be found, but they mostly only find stuff if it is in some sort of standard location, and since there really is no such thing as a standard location on Windows, most of the time you still end up with several copies of everything, but I must say that it is an improvement. But still, to get work done, I'll pick Linux over Windows any time.
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:3, Informative)
Why is this insightful? Both Windows XP and Ubuntu support exactly this behaviour.
Re:These aren't the big issues at all (Score:3, Informative)
I've installed various versions of Ubuntu from 5.04 to 6.10 on a number of computers, all with gnomebaker CD burning software. Not a single one ever asked me for password to run the application (only when installing it).
I have no idea how he managed to get Ubuntu to require a password to run without messing around with permissions of the CD drive or something like that (which would probably make the application fail rather than ask for a sudo password, anyway)
CD burning on Linux (Score:3, Informative)