Workarounds for Vista's Networking Problems? 153
tridium asks: "I recently moved into a new place where the landlord left a Linksys WRT54G v2 router for us to use. The three laptops in the house running XP connected to it fine, but my desktop, running Vista RC1 build 5600, had to be hardwired. The Internet worked fine for a bit, but I noticed some websites weren't loading up (Google, Gmail, and several others), and IM clients weren't working. Vista's self-diagnosis said it couldn't communicate with the DNS server, so I researched and it seems the new TCP stack in Vista is wreaking havoc with my router. I upgraded the firmware from Linksys, tried manually setting IP settings, modified the registry to disable TCP window stacking, but nothing helped. Linksys support was also useless in fixing the problem. I'm at a loss and any help, short of downgrading to XP, would be greatly appreciated." Other people have experienced problems getting Vista to work with off-the-shelf routers. A thread from September identifies the new window scaling feature as a potential culprit, while another article says that Vista and SPI-enabled routers don't play well together. Whether the problem is related is unknown, but another thread offers some troubleshooting tips for anyone else who may be experiencing this problem. Has anyone figured out how to disable (or at least work around) some of the more troubling aspects of Vista's new TCP 'features'?
Install the latest service packs. (Score:1, Funny)
Sean
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Yet your username is mac1235. If you care that much about games, why do you run on a Mac?
Yes, I'm assuming that you run a Mac. What is your name supposed to mean?
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He runs a Maq, you run a Toad?
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Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Playing games again. (Score:2)
I play games you insensitive clod!
That's what play station is for, silly. You expect something with a top selling title called "Office" to help you play? A fool and his money ...
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Re:Install the latest service packs. (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, even the most rabid linux fan has to admit that there are people who, for various reasons, use windows. Let them ask questions and get answers without snarky unhelpful "advice" from time to time ok?
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Why choose MS who are out to screw everyone? (Score:2)
You are correct, however Linux has problems because many commercial hardware developers are assholes. MS Windows has problems because the people who make it are assholes.
Would you rather have an OS where the actual people who make it (not script kiddie fanboys) are not trying to screw you, or do you want assholes who deliberately make their software incompatible with everything else and try to squeeze every penny out of you. MS doesn't even care if their programs work, just as long as they get a sale. I b
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Yes, I was replying to your sarcasm. Thank you drive through.
Vista RC1 build 5600 (Score:5, Informative)
For starters, try, oh, I dunno, a newer RC, if you were part of the test, or...wait for it...the release version?
This sort of story makes me a bit ill. I know this is Slashdot and all, but can we please have SOME sort of filter for "my lonely pre-release copy of Vista dosen't work on my home network" stories?
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QFT
Re:Vista RC1 build 5600 (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Vista RC1 build 5600 (Score:4, Informative)
Seriously. I'm running the release with a WRT54G and it works fine. The only networking complaint I have is that there isn't a hack yet to disable the asinine TCP connection limit like there was for XP.
Using a third-party TCP/IP protocol with Windows? (Score:4, Interesting)
Amiga.org - Forum
http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?
"Is pluggable TCP/IP stacks feasible in mainstream operating systems?
On Amiga we have been graced with AmiTCP, Termite TCP, Miami, Genesis, and probably other TCP/IP stacks about which I do not know. IIRC, these mutated from an original stack produced by Commodore (AS225?) and all offer some compatibility to what appears to be ubiquitous among Amiga, the bsdsocket.library.
So I read about how Gibson Research decried the raw socket access introduced by the new Windows XP TCP/IP implentation (which has not caused the end of the world, best as I can tell,) and Windows Vista introduces another TCP/IP stack. All of these harken back to winsock.dll and winsock2.dll.
Then there's the TCP/IP stack within the Linux kernel, and found in most Unix implementations such as Solaris (/dev/tcp,
We run into so many issues with vendors' TCP/IP stacks (like Windows XP SP2's half-open connection limitation,) why do third party vendors not create third-party TCP/IP stacks? Or do they?
Regardless of the thought process behind the curiosity, could we speculate on the viability? Would it be a potential segregation of the mainstream OS world, or could one vendor's better implementation take over?
I see potential for the server market where many system builders, administrators, and maintainers would like to tweak system performance and security as much as possible. Would TCP/IP outside of the operating system allow for such an approach? And would it be too much of a potential black-eye for OS vendors to ever allow?"
Sure, you can do it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Using a third-party TCP/IP protocol with Window (Score:2)
If you used Windows 3.x, you've probably used it - Trumpet Winsock [trumpet.com.au]. Looks like it's still around and even updated for 9x and NT.
So there's your third party TCP/IP stack. In fact, before Microsoft had a TCP/IP stack (i.e., Win 3.x) in Windows, they released the Winsock specification, thus ensuring that people who wrote wi
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Now piss off.
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In fact, in my experience with Vista on two different computers on two different routers (one a Airlink, one a Linksys), I have actually experienced improved network performance over XP and, wait for it, even over Linux and OS
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As for the filtering, next time drink from the hose [slashdot.org]!
Ha ha, the usual M$ Solution. (Score:2, Insightful)
For starters, try, oh, I dunno, a newer RC, if you were part of the test, or...wait for it...the release version?
Just give Bill Gates $150 and it will work, yeah right. According to the fine summary, this problem was not resolved as of September (link has Windows Vista build 5728), do you think it's fixed now? Will spending your money magically make it work?
This sort of story makes me a bit ill.
Me too, but for entirely different reasons. I think I'm going to stop reading now - I already know tha
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Several people have already posted in this thread saying that their release version of Vista works fine with the same router.
Others claim the problem never existed and still others have posted an insane "fix" that turns off the supposed "feature incompatible with your router". So what? Vista is buggy and has network level changes that don't work with many routers. Sometimes things work and sometimes they don't. Spending money won't change that.
Buying Vista will not make your computing life easier.
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Yeah, except your point has been contradicted multiple times in this discussion. If you're going to stick your fingers in your ears and yell "La la la! I can't hear you!", could you do it in private from now on, please?
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Yeah, except your point has been contradicted multiple times in this discussion.
Contradicted and confirmed, that's how it is with buggy shit.
If you're going to stick your fingers in your ears and yell "La la la! I can't hear you!", could you do it in private from now on, please?
Few people seek me out like you and your sock puppets. I'd be much happier if you would put me on your freaks list and go away.
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I've never replied to any of your posts before. What, exactly, are you saying?
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sigh
Just when I thought his story couldn't get any sadder, it does. How many voices does a man need to cry for help?
/says a prayer
/changes relationship to "foe"
Ha ha, pwned (Score:2)
Wow, that's rich. When you're proved wrong, the only thing you can do is drop to the floor and dribble foam. And you wonder why people call you on your bullshit.
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Here's a thought... (Score:4, Informative)
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Perhaps the grandparent is suggesting a long-term evaluation...
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You've got the Technet site right (eval use only [microsoft.com]), but possibly misunderstanding the MSDN terms. Please reference the full MSDN license [microsoft.com].
Some snippets from the MSDN license FAQ [microsoft.com]:
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Re:Here's a thought... (Score:4, Insightful)
OK, if your only computer is a hot new piece of hardware that you bought/built with no operating system in anticipation of getting Windows Vista, and you have no way of accessing the internet until you can get a working installation of Vista on it, you have my sympathy... for your remarkably poor planning.
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Err... You're probably in a pretty small minority. How much does one of those cost these days?
ant.
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2. Keep running with it connected via a cable. He says it mostly works when 'hardwired', I assume he meant cabled and although he's having DNS issues, he says it works some of the times.
3. Run the webbrowsing via a VM image - VMware is free, and there are plenty of 'browser appliances' you can use that will use their own (linux) stacks bridged to the adapter.
4. Run it through one of the other computers
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I'm running Vista Business on my Laptop (Thinkpad R51) since it hit MSDN, which was about two months ago.
It has an integrated wireless card, Intel 29something BG. At home, i have an Airport Express with WPA2-PSK, which i use daily. At work, we have
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How about not running a beta OS on your primary machine unless you're willing to accept the potential consequences?
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Never buy a
build 5600? pfft... (Score:1)
Why not dd-wrt on the router? (Score:1)
because it works? And gives more features? (Score:2)
have you tried.... (Score:4, Funny)
workaround (Score:3, Interesting)
You may even want it to run a proxy like Squid, that way Squid is requesting dns and not your own pc.
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(Then again, all my computers run some form of *nix so I don't have the problem. Just mentioning that you don't need a separate pc for dns.)
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(Client sends a request, DHCP server responds with an offer, client hangs. It's tied up with exactly how the offer packet should be structured, and where in it the offered IP goes.)
As far as I can tell (and, any real DHCP gurus out there, please correct me), it's down to a oversight on the part of the DHCP spec as t
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I'll take your word on that.
I only use it, and was only suggesting it be used for... DNS.
Tho... if it reliably hangs Windows machines... that could come in handy as a tar pit like mechanism for keeping the boogers off my network.
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And at least with a Windows machine you can see it hasn't got an IP, whereas all you can do with embedded clients is swear at them and go poking around in the client/server logs and peek at what's happening on the wire...
FWIW, the ISC reference server works fine. I run it in conjunction with pdnsd and a set of scripts to keep everything synchronised.
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(Lest you think I'm picking on crap non-open-source software in clients, the udhcpc client in Busybox fails for exactly this reason.)
FWIW, the ISC reference server dhcpd covers the ambiguities - and, as the reference implementation, shouldn't all the other servers follow the same lead?
I had the same problem in Vista RTM (Score:5, Informative)
Beta Tester (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, wait, you mean you were trying to use release canidate software it in a production environment (even if it is a home PC)? You found things didn't work correctly. Well, I'm sure you submitted your results through the appropriate channels at Microsoft, right?
Read the fine print next time; it's for testers and developers, not for getting a free OS for a year that works correctly in a production environment.
Misleading article (Score:5, Informative)
The article describes two separate issues: TCP window scaling, and SPI (Stateful Packet Inspection). These have very little to do with each other, excepting the fact that they're both networking features in Windows Vista.
From what I gather from a quick Google, the problem with TCP window scaling is actually one with crap routers that don't support the feature and misbehave upon encountering it. Furthermore, TCP window scaling is not new to Windows Vista. It was merely disabled by default in previous versions of Windows. The fix is extremely simple, see this article [tech-recipes.com] for information.
The second issue, with SPI, seems to indeed be a Vista bug, but I can find no evidence whatsoever that it exists in Vista RTM, or even RC1/RC2. It's seriously not "stuff that matters" anymore. Prerelease versions always have bugs! If you don't like it, wait for the RTM (or as is usually the case with Microsoft, the first service pack)!
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Easy (Score:1)
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Window Scaling (Score:2)
"new window scaling"? (Score:5, Informative)
W...T...F...?
If this place were even approximately "News for Nerds", Our Illustrious Editor would have realized that calling TCP Window Scaling "new" rises to the same level as referring to the recently-inaugurated Clinton administration. Literally: RFC 1323 [ietf.org] dates to 1992.
I love the scare quotes around "features" at the end of the summary to. God forfend that that evil Micro$oft CORRECTLY implement a TCP standard.
Sigh. Look folks. In this case, MS isn't at fault. It's craptacular consumer-grade network gear which cuts corners on standards compliance. I acknowlege freely that MS is an evil monopolistic corporation bent on world domination, but in this case that's beside the point.
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thats not to say this is the cause of the breakage. its likely due to the fact the guy writing is is a thief.
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Documentation welcome. I don't believe you.
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This is not entirely Microsoft's fault (Score:5, Informative)
Even the subtle changes in timing of the packets may trigger previously undiscovered bugs.
In my case, the web interface of the Acorp LAN420 ADSL router was 'freezing' 75% of the times when accessed from Vista(RTM). Upgrading to the latest firmware solved this problem.
If everything else fails, you can try disabling RWIN scaling by running this as administator:
netsh interface tcp set global rss=disabled
netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled
(to see the list of available options, just run 'netsh interface tcp set global')
RC1 and WRT54G routers (Score:2, Informative)
Sad, just sad (Score:2, Insightful)
Let me get this straight... (Score:2)
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Computers running anything with TCP Window Scaling have problems. We have been pestering Linksys and other router manufacturers since before XP was released. The router is broken.
I just set up a friend's house with a WRT54G v6 (Score:1)
You may be able to flash the router with updated bits, and that might help. Also note: my laptop did just fine (i.e., "just worked") via wifi all the way from beta 2, tho I recall having some issues connecting to a WPE2-encrypted station. I don't know if it was a software issue or a user issue, tho.
Out of curiousity, were you able to connect without encryptio
Try custom linux firmware (Score:2)
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I recently purchased a new Linksys router and I could have sworn it was not as stable as an older one. Now I know why. Cisco really sucks. I guess they can no longer innovate so they have to cripple products in order to sell their higher-end stuff. This is probably a major factor in them acquiring Linksys in the first place.
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This statement has a spin on it that I'm not happy with; let's consider the facts instead. See Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] for more details.
Between V4.0 and V5.0 of the firmware, Cisco/Linksys switched from using Linux as the firmware for the WRT54G/WRT54GS to VxWorks. The lower memory footprint of VxWorks allowed them to halve the amount of RAM and flash in the box, substantially low
have you considered flashing the router to linux? (Score:3, Interesting)
OS X? (Score:2)
I'm hoping that Vista will convince these router manuf
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But so what? Does this mean we can "ping of death" these crap Linksys boxes? Gives new meaning to "wardriving"...
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And yet again, why don't routers and switches have a bit more survivability here? What you're saying means I can, in fact, ping-of-death most network hardware. Means I can take this HP Jornada 720, put Linux on it, stick the wireless card in, and drive around killing everyone's Linksys router in the area.
Why is this possible? Is it actually that much cheaper to make this kind of crap?
RC2 should fix the issue (Score:2)
I have an IBM (pre Lenevo by a few weeeks) G41 laptop and the wireless works perfectly with my WRT54G R3.0.
No Vista (Score:2)
The obvious solution is to dump Vista. Is there any great reason to have it at this point other than you're looking to waste a tremendous amount of time beta-testing compatibility issues for Microsoft without pay?
Quite possibly the MTU setting (Score:3, Informative)
My solution? Change the MTU on the router to 1492. Problem solved.
--droog
Columbus (Score:2)
Switch to XP (Score:3, Informative)
As long as people keep switching to the next MS version of windows MS will continue to have control.
If people stick with XP, then Linux and everyone else will have a chance.
http://slashdot.org/~TheLink/journal/158520 [slashdot.org]
OT: Mapped network drives & removable storage (Score:2)
You then plug in a USB hard drive. Windows assigns the drive F, and you can't access it unless you change its drive letter in Computer Management.
Why? It's not like it doesn't know there is something using that letter...
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Nothing.
Have you tried applying Linux twice daily?
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Slight problem: I have a WRT54Gv7, and so to plenty of other users. While there are projects that work with half of the memory of the older models, they are much more difficult to find.
Of cor