How Can We Convert the US to the Metric System? 1487
thesolo asks: "Despite past efforts of the 1970s and 1980s, the United States remains one of only three countries (others are Liberia and Myanmar) that does not use the metric system. Staying with imperial measurements has only served to handicap American industry and economy. Attempts to get Americans using the Celsius scale, or putting up speed limits in kilometers per hour have been squashed dead. Not only that, but some Americans actually see metrication efforts as an assault on 'our way' of measuring. I personally deal with European scientists on a daily basis, and find our lack of common measurement to be extremely frustrating. Are we so entrenched with imperial units that we cannot get our fellow citizens to simply learn something new? What are those of us who wish to finally see America catch up to the rest of the world supposed to do? Are there any organizations that we may back, or any pro-metric legislators who we can support?"
I'll let you into a secret about Britain (Score:4, Interesting)
United Kingdom (Score:5, Interesting)
I must admit however that the foot is a very appealing unit in that it can be easily measured using common body parts such as the hand-elbow distance or the foot.
I think the problem is that the parents who grew up with imperial units use them in day to day conversation, hence associating different benchmark sizes with specific words in their children's developing minds, making a natural transition to metric quite difficult, but certainly not impossible... i guess the situation will improve once britain follows ireland in getting the traffic system metricized.
It's quite simple, really (Score:2, Interesting)
2) Only teach metric in the schools.
3) Wait 20 years.
4) Make it illegal to use the old units for anything at all.
Somewhere along the line you'll get profit:)
Until you get to step #4 we (world - United States, Liberia and Myanmar) can make fun of your contortions and strange conversion factors that need to be applied to do even the simplest thing:)
Quick, tell me how many miles per gallon 40 rods per hogshead is, if you can do that without looking anything up then you get to keep the old system, otherwise you will need to convert.
Re:I'll let you into a secret about Britain (Score:5, Interesting)
It's taught in school in the US as well. I can't tell from your comment - did you not know that?
The problem in the US is, we don't actually use it outside of school (science classes mostly) so most people fall back on what's all around them. It's kind of sad. The military uses it though, and some large percentage of Americans have been in the military (in case you couldn't tell, ha ha). The M-16 was designed to be exactly 1 meter long so that every soldier could have a familiar reference. It's still what I think of when I need to estimate meters.
Re:A question I alwais ask when discussing this... (Score:2, Interesting)
Canada. (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing is that the metric system is officially used everywhere. Road signs, groceries, public schools, the works. The only basis that we have for even knowing the Imperial system is our parents. I've used the metric system my entire life. I know my height and weight in feet and lbs, but couldn't tell you what it is in metric units. But I can guess fairly accurately how much something weighs in kilograms, but I'm not so good with pounds. Likewise, I'm more comfortable with measuring things in meters, rather than feet.
A rather amusing story though. I am currently living in the US, trying to get by without using the old ways. I am not always successful. But I try. Anyways, I was on the phone with my Mom the other day, and she asked how warm it was here. I googled the answer, and got it in Fahrenheit (46F). I laughed, and said she would be right at home here, and gave her the answer in Fahrenheit without doing the conversion. I was rather amazed at her response. She told me that it's been so long since she's used the Imperial system that she's forgotten it. She honestly didn't remember what 46F was.
Anyways, my point is that it doesn't matter if the older people don't use the metric system. Teach it to the young, and switch the entire country to the metric system on all official items. It will all sort itself out in time.
Re:Three and a Half (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'll let you into a secret about Britain (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, about the main question, I do not think it is at all difficult. One of the fears I had when I was planning to come to UK was the monetary system. My father came to the UK some years ago (15 maybe) and they still used that strange system where 12 shillings was a quarter and 8 quarters was a pound (I am just babbling what I remember... those are not accurate numbers)... fortunately Britain changed to a normal 100 cents = 1 pound (decimal system yahoo!). I they could do it with *money* then I am sure Americans can do it with metrics no?
Re:I'll let you into a secret about Britain (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, I guess it depends on what situations you need to know things like weight for. I'm a windsurfer and I would always quote my weight in kilos since it makes working out things like volume of water displaced much easier (1 kilo == 1 litre of fresh water).
And whilst I may know specific values (my height, weight, etc) in imperial, I have no idea how to do calculations with those values. If I'm going to calculate anything I use metric (how many ounces in a pound? pounds in a stone? I have no idea - I'd have to look them up).
Also, add the lack of standardisation in imperial units - the Americans like to call them "English units", but the gallons (rarely, these days) used in England aren't the same size as the American gallons...
There is a drive to convert road signs to metric - again, partly because of our EU membership - but there's no easy, straightforward way to do it.
They managed it in Ireland without any real problems, ISTR the new signs just have "Km/h" marked on them below the speed. All the cars have both KM/h and MPH marked on the speedo (although I must admit that the KM/h markings on my car are a bit too small to read while you're going along the road). I for one would welcome a complete switch to kilometres though - it would make working out stuff like fuel consumption much easier (which is still quoted in miles per gallon despite the fact that fuel hasn't been sold in gallons for at least 20 years, not to mention the disparity between US gallons and British gallons which means you're never entirely sure which units are being used).
Metric Imperialism - Globalisation the goal? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What's stopping you? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What's stopping you? (Score:3, Interesting)
And what US scientist uses Imperial units anyway? Engineers, sure, but I've never met a scientist (and I am one) in the US who didn't strongly prefer metric.
Re:Funny, but lame (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What's stopping you? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think that is really the foundation. You can set your indoor/outdoor thermometer or weather applet to metric and use the metric side of a ruler by yourself. If you have an older car it can be easy to get used to looking at the metric conversions of various speed limits. Probably nobody who can get sued is going to recommend setting your LCD to km but rough conversions in your head aren't exactly hard (and, let's be honest, you're blending in with traffic anyway, right?). And, as an aside, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get used to a 24 hour clock.
As Americans in a global economy, we just get used to thinking of our own country as the odd man out. Hasn't been hard for me the last few years. And if enough people start doing it, some politician will be glad to take credit for his leadership in proposing national metric standards.
Re:School districts votes to require 'Cubits'. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll pick the box marked, "American Rocket Scientists".
SPACE.com -- NASA Finally Goes Metric [space.com] (8 Jan 2007)
Maybe the conversion "isn't rocket science", and therein lies the problem?
Re:The Celsius scale is a bad example. (Score:3, Interesting)
Its still easier to create 0 deg F in a lab than 0 deg C. The top end is still tricky but I've gotten water to boil below 80 def C in a lab but I'm not going to pick on any dogs to calibrate my thermometers.
Re:What's stopping you? (Score:5, Interesting)
The argument that imperial is better for daily use is repeated here over and over. However I have been using metric system all my life and it is intuitive for me that where I live there is at least 30C in hot summer, about 20C in spring and 0C to -15C in winter (except January 2007). I can easily estimate dimensions of things in cm by looking at them, their weight in kg by trying to pick them up etc. I know how 500ml of beer will affect me and what will happen after four shots of 100g vodka glasses (or 8 x 50g, both are common).
There is nothing special about imperial or metric system for daily use. You just have to be accustomed to it.
A unit between cm and m exists: 1dm = 10cm = 0.1m, but is rarely used (at least here).
Celsius is lame (Score:2, Interesting)
Besides whats so magical about Celsius anyway. Its just as arbitrary as Fahrenheit. somebody just picked a range based on water..so what? and it doesn't even hold up in higher elevations where water does NOT boil at 100.
Imperial measurements handicap the USA how? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What's stopping you? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes it does, 1000cm^3 = 1dm^3 = 1 liter, and by definition 1 liter of pure water weights 1kg (== 1000g) at sea level.
Metrics just pwned you, good sir.
Canada - True Example (Score:1, Interesting)
As far as the country and government are concerned, Canada is completely metric. You wont find any lingering signs with miles or inches on them, the grocery stores will still have the lbs in fine print to help out the 'old school' but that is the final residue of a country gone completely metric. As for me, I need to work on it still. The metric system makes so much sense in calculations and is all based on water which we can all relate to. Why shouldn't water freeze at 0 and boil at 100 degrees C? It make sense, it's just beating the aftermath of change that is the biggest problem.
Re:Funny, but lame (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:What's stopping you? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:School districts votes to require 'Cubits'. (Score:4, Interesting)
You could buy a firkin of beer in the country side and sell it in London for the same price, at a tidy profit. You could do the same with a gallon of gasoline bought in Canada and then resold a few yards to the south accross the American border...
In an old Dutch City like New York, the land titles were a huge mess, with Dutch, English and American measures.
Re:What's stopping you? (Score:3, Interesting)
Rather they were codified/formalized after common use.
The superiority of the metric system rests in the fact that it was, indeed, designed for use.
This applies to science, education, AND common use: it is just easier to move between different magnitudes, from grams to kilograms, for example, or cms to metres... and once children learn of one type of measurement (space), all of the principles (prefixes, conversion methods, etc) apply to the others (e.g.: weight).
Of course, I'm from a metric country, so I can't readily see how the imperial units feel any easier to north americans. I'm as used to metric on daily use as you are to imperial.
But I have to disagree that the "foot" provides any convenience for common human work; it has always seemed to me one of the most irrational measuring units.
The final 'imperial foot' is as arbitrary as the meter, without any of the conveniences.
Whose 'foot' is it? The british king's back in the 12th century? Your foot? An ostrich's? Feet, hands, fingers vary in size between people, and for each person, they vary within their lifetimes.
While your foot may approximate an 'imperial foot', not only does this not apply to a lot of people, but is utterly useless to a child, for example. The approximation is also deceiving, because unless my foot is almost exactly that length, I cannot really measure a room by walking through it without losing a lot of precision (unless it is very small).
For that kind of rough approximation, any arbitrary equivalence works. In any metric country, children and adults have rough mental images of how long are meter/centimeters/etc, and make rough measurements in the same way, while preserving the advantages that the system was designed for, and the universality of the measurements for every line of work.
I do not believe there is any intrinsic convenience in the imperial unit system.
The reasons it has not been replaced are well known: cultural solipsism, and population.
The US has a lot of both, and being the economic superpower it can afford not to optimize on this and other things.
Admittedly, it has much bigger things to deal with.
Re:Funny, but lame (Score:3, Interesting)
Dirty secret about the US (Score:2, Interesting)
"It shall be lawful throughout the United States of America to employ the weights and measures of the metric system; and no contract or dealing, or pleading in any court, shall be deemed invalid or liable to objection because the weights or measures expressed or referred to therein are weights or measures of the metric system."
What Congress did not do, was penalize or discourage other systems of measurement. Consequently, there was little incentive for metric units to be adopted outside science and engineering, so traditional quirky units persisted in common use, despite their problems (the standard yard was shrinking, for instance). However, even these were redefined by the Bureau of Weights and Measurements in 1893 to be based on the metric units, so that 1 inch is exactly 0.0254 meters, for instance.
Perhaps as a result of the lack of use of the metric system in the US in the century since it was officially adopted, Congress passed another act in 1988, which mandates "the metric system of measurement as the preferred system of weights and measures for United States trade and commerce." All government business is supposed to be in metric units...
Re:Euro-homos (Score:4, Interesting)
But I have a fast way of converting Fahrenheit to Celsius, with a reasonably small margin of error for common values. 100F is more or less the same as 40C. Every degree in Celsius is about 2 degrees Fahrenheit. So if someone tells you that it's 80 degrees, you can guess that it's about 30C. It isn't exact, but it's within about 5 degrees, which is good enough for the most part. It at least tells you what to wear.
Re:Metric Imperialism - Globalisation the goal? (Score:4, Interesting)
Changing your internal thinking is entirely possible. I remember after I had been in Australia a few months, a friend from the states mentioned their 60 degree weather and I about died until I realized he meant fahrenheit. I hadn't realized I had stopped converting until then.
Re:Metric Imperialism - Globalisation the goal? (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, some 5 years after the EURO introduction, most people I know never make a conversion before judging prices, fees and such..
It became part of our life like the older currency. It did have some economic effects at various levels, but that's another story.
The important thing is that most people, even elderly that "you wouldn't know" assimilated the transition.
I think you can do the same in the US.
Come on, you have to make the last step...it's just a matter of feet...I mean meters! Meters!!
Re:Metric Imperialism - Globalisation the goal? (Score:2, Interesting)