Dealing w/ Relocation Package Bait and Switch?

An anonymous reader asks: "I got a R&D job offer with a large company in Philadelphia area last week. It includes a relocation package that they told me was standard for my position. After I accepted the offer and made plans to terminate my current job, the recruiter handed me off to their relocation department, where I was told that my relocation package is significantly less than what I was promised. The relocation manager tells me that whenever there is conflict between their relocation policy and the offer, their internal relocation policy supersedes. Is this type of switch-and-bait common practice in corporate America? If you have gone through this nightmare before, any advice on how to respond to it?"

If you don't have it in writing....

[jalewis]

I think you're screwed.

... and COMMUNICATE this to them!

[mr_luc]

First, you describe it as a 'nightmare'. Is this a deal-breaker, or not, for you?

If it's not, and you'd honestly take the job even without the better relocation package, then your goal is just to try to negotiate, right?

If it IS a DEFINITE deal-breaker, call them up and tell them that, bluntly but softly: "I'm sorry, but that's what I was promised. I don't want to cause any trouble, but for me right now this is definitely a deal-breaker. Please talk to whoever you need to talk to," get info on how long it will take them to make a decision and arrange to call back, and then call back.

If it's not a definite deal-breaker but you want to negotiate, the procedure is the same, but use softer wording.

"Bob, you told me that there was [blah] to help me get there and get going, and they're telling me [blahrg]. I'm just really concerned, and I wanted to let you know where I'm at with this. I'm really excited about coming on board with you guys, and I'm really looking forward to it, but my situation right now is that without an adequate relocation package like the one you described, it just might not make sense for either of us."

Also, mention to them that there are two ways that this is bad -- first, that the financial hit you'd take from the lower relocation package is enough to make taking the position a lot less attractive. But second, that taking that hit -- a substantial financial penalty -- is enough of a negative for you that it just might not make sense to start off what you *had* hoped would be a long and mutually rewarding career by being asked to take a big financial penalty.

You didn't quit your job yet, right? You haven't yet taken a dump on your supervisor's desk, right? So you can survive. If your prospective new bosses react to these kinds of reasonable concerns unreasonably, you're better off where you are, so expressing your concerns can only help you.

Re:In writing?

[Pxtl]

Even if it wasn't in writing, a verbal contract is a valid binding contract unless superceded by a written contract (IANAL, just remembered from a course)... of course, proving that a verbal offer was made is nearly impossible.

Around here, verbal contracts are binding

[Medievalist]

In Delaware at least, a verbal contract is binding. Legally, the company must honor it.

The problem is that you have to prove the contract was made, and without a written copy that can be difficult.

Re:You do

[Lumpy]

Bingo!

never EVER trust your employer or future employer. If you don't have it in writing they are going to jack you.

Finally, giving your notice at your current job is silly if you do not have a full written offer in hand, especially on a relocation type job. What if the company said, Nahh, we dont want to pay for your relocation?

You are now screwed, you either relocate yourself at your cost, or sit home jobless for a while.

BTW, like the new company now? they are screwing you before you get your first paycheck! gonna really like working for a company like that!

Re:You do

[rutledjw]

I heartily agree with this. I've never had a company back-off from a request to get everything in writing prior to acceptance.

The other thing I'd do is bring this up with the manager/director/whoever that hired you. As a manager, and I am one, I would not be amused with an internal bureaucrat who underminded a legitimate offer with the result of a new hire coming in the door angry. That's no way to start things off. Give this person a chance to address the issue.

Another point is that his/her reaction will likely give some idea as to what degree they will support thier team. It may be that he/she can't do anything, but give them the chance and make them aware

Re:Speak personally to someone senior

[Lumpy]

I'm pretty much guessing that he took a job with Comcast and this IS their normal operation procedure. They typically do not know wha the left or right hand is doing, managers will make offers that are outside what HR accepts as normal and never push through the right paperwork to make the exception. I know guys there that after starting work were being paid less than they were offered and it took months to fix.

Some of the other reasons I left the place.

Re:Run while you can...

[Anonymous Coward]

"if they don't fix it toot sweet"

You mean "tout de suite". It's french. It means "right away".

Re:Seriously consider not taking the job

[Zordak]

Actually, the general rule is that a contract does not have to be in writing to be valid and enforceable (there are, of course, some important exceptions). If they offered you a certain employment package and you accepted it, you formed a contract with them, regardless of what their "internal" policy is. Despite what another post below yours implied, this is a situation where a lawsuit would be very reasonable. It's the proper way to enforce the terms of a contract when the other party fails to perform. On the other hand, there is some risk in just quitting. In the best case scenario, you can get them to pay your lost salary until you can find a comparable job (and if your new job pays less, possibly even cover the difference). Worst case scenario is you could get nothing from them. That said, I wouldn't want to work for a company that started off the employment relationship by lying to me.

I am not a lawyer, and I am especially not your lawyer. If you feel sufficiently aggrieved to sue this company, contact a lawyer and get his or her opinion. The opinions expressed in this post do not constitute legal advice of any kind to anybody.

Your hosed

[CharlieG]

Unless you were given a specific offer in writing, including the details of the relocation offer, your hosed. The verbal agreement is worth exactly the paper it's printed on

Please tell me you got the offer in writing ...

[wjeff]

prior to telling your current employer you were leaving, if you did get the offer in writing then it is a non-issue, i doesn't matter what their policy is, they made a legal and binding promise of intent, get a lawyer.

And by the way, you might want to reconsider going to work for a company where they are that incompetent and/or dishonest.

I had a similar experience

[HangingChad]

It was an IT services company. Except I was already at the job site when they pulled their magic now you see it, now you don't act. But it was my mistake because they told me they would "help" with relocation. Turned out their definition of help and mine were quite different. That was the same job the customer described the "intent" of making the job permanent. In this case the road to a hellish job in a hell hole of a town was paved with helpful good intentions.

The others telling you this is a big, red flag are absolutely correct. If it starts out bad, there's nowhere to go but down, especially if this is a company renting you to another company. You will have endless niggling disagreements because they're squeezing you on one side and the customer on the other. The customer will always be expecting you to pay the tab, and in disagreements with your employer the policy will always be on their side. Besides, it's a cheap chisel and if you roll over on this they're going to keep chipping away at your hide.

Go back to your current employer, tell them you changed your mind and wanted to give them first chance before putting them through the expense of finding someone new and yourself through the expense of finding another job.

Re:You do

[PCM2]

When someone says "get your offer in writing," that doesn't mean an e-mail from Joe Department Manager saying, "Hey guy, it was great talking to ya, and guess what? We want to give you the job! Isn't that cool?"

An employment offer in writing is written by the HR department, not the person you interviewed. It has a signature at the bottom. It will probably arrive at your home via FedEx or registered mail. The package might also include other materials, such as a brochure describing the company's benefits package. The letter itself might also have a space at the bottom where you put your own signature, and you will return that copy of the letter to the HR department when you accept your offer.

The other posters are right when they say that recourse for a hiring bait-and-switch is tricky ... why start off a new job in an adversarial position? Even if you sue them for the compensation they didn't pay you, you'll be out of a job. But I agree with the GP: Get it in writing anyway.

It's odd to me that anybody would have reached the point where they quit their previous job and were actually planning to move out of their home without getting the terms of the relocation deal in writing. If an offer letter showed up that didn't include those terms, I'd send it back and ask for them to be spelled out. No HR department should refuse that request. If they did, that would be a big, huge, three-alarm red flag to me that the company is not on the level.

The point is that a real offer letter is not an offer as in "hey how about this" ... it is a formal proposal. It's not exactly a contract, but for all intents and purposes both parties should expect to treat it like that.

Look at it this way: In any kind of situation where you are considering taking a new job, don't think of yourself as a supplicant asking a company for work. Think of yourself as a supplier who has something to offer that company. What you're offering the company is your work.

Now, suppose you weren't just one person -- suppose you were a different kind of supplier, like a concrete company that owned some cement mixer trucks. If your local municipality offered you a job pouring concrete on a few work sites, wouldn't you want to get the terms of that offer in writing? Where and when are your guys supposed to show up, how long is the job expected to take, and what are they offering to pay you for that amount of work?

Taking any other kind of job, even if it's just a job in an office, is no different. If they don't want to spell out the terms of the deal for you, then you should view that deal exactly the same way you would if you were the boss of a cement company and the customer didn't seem to want to negotiate in good faith.

Re:Talk to the person who offered the package

[cayenne8]

"There's a doctrine called "constructive dismissal" that may apply to cases like this. The idea is that substantially altering job responsibilities without your agreement is like asking you to leave the company. I don't know how it applies in the U.S., but in some jurisdictions it might allow people in the situation to describe to the same benefits as if the company had induced you to join them and then fired you on your second day there."

Well, I think in most of the US, you work on an "at will" basis. You can be fired at anytime for no reason at all....just not due to sex, race, religion..etc. But, aside from the 'taboo' reasons, you can be let go for any reason, at least for direct employment which really give you no contractual protections such as a contractor might have written into their agreement.

Re:You do

[cayenne8]

"In the UK there is a potential issue with whether or not you get classified as an employee. Just simply invoicing the company you work for for your time isn't enough."

It won't work just doing that in the US either. There are IRS guidelines that stipulate if you are a contractor or employee read here [irs.gov].

The best way to avoid this, is to incorporate yourself, like with an "S" corp as I suggested in the GP. This way, you work for YOUR company, and the contractual agreement is between your corp and their corp (C2C). Actually since the old Microsoft fiasco, where a bunch of 1099 contractors came back and successfully sued MS for non-payment of employee benefits...most companies today are a little hesitant to hire you as a 1099 employee directly...the c2c relationship shields them from this and helps keep the IRS happy with your employment designation.

With the c2c relation ship...your corp invoices their company...and your corp pays you a 'reasonable salary' on which you pay SE taxes (FICA, Medicare, etc)...the rest of the money falls through to you without the employment taxation, only income taxes. This is how it works with and S corp...if you have an LLC...all income gets the employment taxes taken out of it...is a sweet deal.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Sounds like you have the answer in the offer...

[Corrupter]

Yes, it is common practice in large companies.

However, you are in luck!

It sounds, from your description of the offer, that they included details of the relocation package in the offer. Which means you have it in writing. Which means it is a contract. Which means that you should tell the HR person that you have already accepted the job, which means that you have accepted the terms of the contract the offered.

You have the option of telling them that they will honor the terms of the contract, or you will sue them for the difference plus attorney's fees. Also add that you have every intention of honoring your part of the contract by continuing to work there, and if they try to fire you for filing suit, you will sue them again for wrongful termination, damages, and attorney's fees. Make sure the Recruiter and your new boss know of your intentions to hold them to the contract by legal force if necessary.

It is that straight forward. Good Luck.

Re:Sounds like you have the answer in the offer...

[DaMattster]

Unfortunately, Pennsylvania is an At Will state. This means a company can pretty much terminate you for any reason and do so legally. However, if one can prove a hostile work environment, they have a valid lawsuit on their hands. Despite nothing grossly negligent, I once sought retribution for being laid off and no lawyer would take it because of the "At Will" clause. The lawyer told me I would have a chance if it were a hostile work environment.

Fire your boss

[wikinerd]

Become self-employed. You will never have to work with abusive bosses again.

Re:You do

[GreyPoopon]

Actually, an offer by a company is a legally binding contract and if they fire you without cause that is illegal as well.

Careful. That depends on what state you live in and the contract itself. Most modern employment contracts will state that the company can terminate you at any time for any reason. And most states follow "at-will" employment doctrine with exceptions to this varying wildly from state to state. The whole "two weeks notice" thing is only a courtesy, and you can bet such courtesies would be ignored if the employee is playing games with the employer (even if the employer started them).

Re:You do

[cayenne8]

"This is the first that I've heard of such things. Why don't all colleges have this as part of freshman orientation?

Maybe there's a priveleged segment of society which gets this information... and a slave segment of society which doesn't."

No, it isn't that...you just DID hear about it here.

:-)

Well, my Dad had gone out to form his own company, and when he ran out of customers, he started contracting. I learned some things from him....and I left a direct job years ago...and became a contract employee....and while working I met people that cut out the middle man and did what I'm doing now. I asked them questions, and did lots of research....and came up with the "S" corp info that I followed.

No..school doesn't teach you much about this stuff, unless maybe you are a business major...but, then again, I doubt very many people come directly out of college and start being and indie contractor. You really need to have job experience and skill to market before you can strike out like this...at least in IT.

I wouldn't have learned it for the IT world I'm in now in school anyway...my degree was in BioChemistry...which I never pursued a job in...and I just missed med school...and ended up doing this now, which I found I had an aptitude for...some good breaks along the way, and hard work.

But no...you don't get everything you need in any school...this is just stuff you learn from working and keeping your ears and eyes open, and making contacts and friends and maybe finding a mentor along the way.

And...I supposed...even reading Slashdot. Like I mentioned...you do NOW know about it from reading here, and can now pursue your own research into things of this nature.

Good Luck!

You left out "and a hire a good lawyer

[falconwolf]

after getting sued for defamation".

It's only defamation if it's a lie. And the plaintiff has to prove the person is knowingly telling a lie, which isn't easy otherwise all those weekly rags that publish dirt on celebrities would be out of business.

Falcon

Re:You do

[jafac]

Most places I work - when Managers screw up and overstaff (and they do this all the time), SUBCONTRACTORS are always the first to be let go.

In fact, that's one of the precursors to most layoffs. They cut the subcontractors, mark a hiring freeze, cut building maintenance, cut overtime for the hourlies, jack up the prices in the vending machines. . .

Re:You do

[will_die]

Just went through something like this.
There is no law in all but a handfull of US state preventing them from firing you the moment you walk in the door or even right after you have signed the paper work to start working with them and just told your former employer you are leaving. Almost everyone works under "work at will" which means they can fire you at any time and you can leave at any time. Most employment contracts will mention that you are a work at will person.
Now you can usally get some money from the company if during the firing they broke the rules outlined in there employee handbook, most recent lawsuits in this area have awarded in the 1 million range for stuff.
Where you also see lawsuits is in the case when you moved for the job and then were fired, told you did not have the job once you showed up, or other situations where you payed money and had a hardship(moving) to get the job and had confirmation that you were starting the job. There are plenty cases of this(this is what happened to me) and courts have treated it like the work at will but have awarded money to cover costs like the move, but not lost salary. Pennselvania has a law which allows punnative damages; otherwise your only change of getting money above the move, some court costs,etc is if the employee handbook has been violated.