Mid-Range Accounting Solutions for Linux? 137
markdavis asks: "For Linux to really succeed in business, it must first have support by vendors for the core financial applications: General Ledger, Accounts Payable, Accounts Receivable, and Payroll/HR. I am the IT Director for a long-term-care medical facility (400 employees) and found out a few weeks ago that the vendor that supplies our GL, AP, HR, and Payroll software is dropping support for Linux, in November (after using them for four years). They code in Progress and have decided to convert to a proprietary web GUI (IIS + IE6 + ActiveX) rather than use Progress + Apache + any browser. This means we either abandon Linux, or we are in the market for new accounting software modules (I bet you know which is my preferred choice). Does anyone use Linux server AND client (or web browser under Linux) software for financials in a medium or smaller/medium sized organization? If so, what do you use? Do you like it? What problems did you have in using it? What other advice can you give to someone trying to use Linux in this manner?"
All businesses require the core accounting functions, mentioned above. Most companies also require 'industry specific' software which is customized for their industry. For example, in healthcare, AR (Accounts Receivable) is VERY different from all other industries. It is 2007, so hopefully the Linux choices for at least the core, non-industry specific financial software have improved since our last search, four years ago.
have been working on an RFI/RFP (Request for Information/Proposal) and identifying as many possible vendors as possible. I have searched through hundreds of vendors so far and identified 39 possibilities, but could always use more."
have been working on an RFI/RFP (Request for Information/Proposal) and identifying as many possible vendors as possible. I have searched through hundreds of vendors so far and identified 39 possibilities, but could always use more."
"For Linux to succeed..." (Score:4, Informative)
Why do people so often preface Linux questions with things like that? "For Linux to really succeed in business" "For linux to succeed on the desktop".
Linux is succeeding in many aspects. Success doesn't have to mean 90% of the market share.
Anyway, that pet peeve aside. Take a look at compiere [compiere.org]. Only drawback that I see is that it requires a non-free database to run on top of.
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Re:"For Linux to succeed..." (Score:5, Informative)
The 90% market share isn't important. Get the small stuff first. Market share comes with time. I can tell you this much: anyone I've moved from Windows to mac has NOT wanted to go back. I have had an occassional user go from Linux to Mac, usually because product X needs commercial support, but is not available on Linux, but none have gone back to Windows. None.
Linux has and is succeeding. So is FreeBSD. All of my servers, sans a couple of Mac OpenDirectory servers, run FreeBSD. I interoperate with several other ISP's around here, 2 run FreeBSD, another runs on Linux.
Yup, it's failing.
Re:"For Linux to succeed..." (Score:4, Insightful)
You assume that they'd call you back to do the reverse migration. Think that's a reasonable assumption?
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Ok, I appreciate that all of the above are mostly POSIX and code moves between them about a million times easier than anything else and windows ... but I have to ask why are you selling Linux and/or OS-X but using FreeBSD? Don't any of your customers ask the same question?
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FreeBSD is typically advanced enough as to be confusing to an end user for a Desktop system. Kubuntu Linux is the Desktop OS of choice for us on PC hardware. When we need to use Linux on a server, we use Gentoo. When putting a server at a customer site, we lobby hard for an OSX Server, if not, then it winds up being FreeBSD, but customers tend to pale when they realize that they get black screen an
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I personally would be very happy to see Linux capture 20-25% of the desktop market. No, we don't need t
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I don't think the GP meant the desktop. There are other sectors where Linux is much more prevalent. A good example is HPC, High-Performance Computing, where Linux powers 75% of the systems on the TOP500 [top500.org] list.
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Yes, it'd be nice to see more Linux on the desktop. I run two desktops at work -- one XP, one Linux. I run XP, OS X, and two Linux desktops at home. So for me personally, it's 50% of the machines I use on a regular basis.
As for accounting specifically, that's one area that's less suited to OSS than other areas. The IRS doesn't look kindly on "well, there's a bug report filed". Your accounting needs to work 100% of the time. Accounting software could very wel
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As for accounting specifically, that's one area that's less suited to OSS than other areas. The IRS doesn't look kindly on "well, there's a bug report filed". Your accounting needs to work 100% of the time. Accounting software could very well be Open Source, but it's a bit more liability than if the GIMP crashes. Lots of business owners won't feel comfortable with accounting software without some guarantees.
I've had problems with commercial accounting software. In one case I had to send my database to the vendor who was able to edit the data and send it back to me (all on 3 1/2" floppy). Bugs exist in all software. That's not counting the "goofy" implimentations that I have seen in decent sized accounting systems.
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Tell it to my current client who has had more trouble with QuickBooks in the last couple months than he's had in years.
Their last release, according to him, was a disaster. Numerous very large patches had to be applied, and he still has some problems, I think.
Not to mention the stupid thing needs to run in ADMINISTRATOR MODE at all times - which is giving Intuit fits trying to move to Vista. Turns out QuickBooks was never certified for Windows XP, either, beca
Bias? (Score:1, Troll)
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There is no way a competent auditor can not know how to do the accounts - you can not check what you do not understand. They are telling you that they have done their job, now you do yours.
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Well if he's picking tooling for the accounting dept does he periodically wander down to theatre and tell the surgeons what implements they can and cant use during surgery?
Accountants are users not admins, they get trained on one thing and probably would prefer to still use it. One I know was a big fan of Peachtree and wanted to install it wherever she went even though in some situations it was inadequate for the size or not suited for th type of the business she was working for.
But also you sould choo
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Re:Bias? (Score:4, Interesting)
The best tool for "the Job" is "the Mac".
j/k
Seriously. Let's say the perfect tool for the job is a 31.25 kg ball-pien hammer. You go to the hardware store, and they have that 31.25 kg ball-pien hammer, but in order to use it, you have to purchase a special glove with which to hold that hammer. The glove costs...$300? Per hand? If you buy the glove, it comes in a box. When you open the box, and go to put on the glove it has a slip of paper that blocks you putting your hand in the glove. It reads:
End User License Agreement
By putting on this glove you agree to
On the shelf next to that glove is a 31 kg ball-pien hammer that can be used with the glove of your choice. You know, it might not be the PERFECT choice, or the BEST tool for the job, but sometimes it's not just the tool that you have to consider, but the work environment you create by choosing that tool.
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Where's Thor? (Score:2)
Their job is to write the -specs- (Score:3, Insightful)
And that's it. If they say "we need package XYZ", they're as off-base as a technical person saying that they must us the Simpson-Barr deprecation schedule for domestic exotic livestock.
The tech people must consult wi
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I am responsible for the running of our information technology, the accounting department is not. Yes, they do have a say in which vendor is selected, but it is certainly not their sole decision.
I don't have any say in which A/C systems the facility uses. I don't decide which medications are used. I don't even pick which benef
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Oracle (Score:3, Informative)
I've never worked with any of their small business stuff -- so I can't recommend it, just pointing it out.
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A good part of the front end is in HTML, but the other parts are written in Java and launching the apps tries to launch their own godawful JVM called Jinitiator which doesn't have a Linux version.
There is an unsupported workaround for Linux: Spoof your browser USER-AGENT to OSX safari, and the apps will just use a Sun JVM.
IEs4Linux (Score:1)
http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Pag
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IEs4Linux is a neat thing (all of WINE, in general), but it is not terribly reliable, uses a lot of resources, and if there were even the slightest problem we would get zero support from the application vendor. Plus, that doesn't help with the server side (which is just as important).
We have 400 employees, and 150 users (not 400), and 130 thin-client Linux-based desktops.
Yes, it is about freedom- freedom to choose the server and client platforms. It is especially important when our whole
LedgerSMB (Score:5, Informative)
The back end runs on an Apache server with PostgreSQL underneath. The client side can be just about any browser platform (including Lynx). There are online demos where you can test most of the functionality before deploying in your own network.
HTH.
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We've been using SQL-Ledger for a couple of years now and while it does a great job, it has a few minor annoying bugs that have lasted through several development cycles and the long-awaited payroll module is still nowhere to be seen. What have your experiences with LedgerSMB b
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It's kinda early days for L-SMB yet, and I don't think anyone is in a position to insightfully discuss "experiences" with L-SMB - any experiences they've had to date won't really be relevant when taken in context of the next
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> write it, then give it back to the project.
Specifically, one of the lead developers. Several are in the business of doing just that.
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Also, as evil as it sounds, we really will need a commercial company behind the software. Even if it is open-source software, we still need to have an entity we can pay and have their attention and assistance when necessary.
This is the fallacy that many people forget... for business-critical applications, the worth of the software is really only as go
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They're behind the Ledger-SMB fork - they've deployed SQL-Ledger widely in the past & they can do custom modules & stuff. I would think they'd be ideal for your adding the stuff you want to L-SMB, depending on the suitability of the base components to your needs.
Stroller.
Go with the leader (Score:2)
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For example, we're a 4-5 person shop (given the month) and our accountant provides a web-interface for us to enter expenses and income, and that firm handles our bookkeeping, taxes, etc. The system he uses is contracted out from a developer. I don't recall the name though...point is, I know there is at least one solution.
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SAGE is also on the list. They have direct information on their web site claiming Linux server/client support in some of their product lines.
Not that hard. (Score:2)
has lots of suggestions. If you are looking for midrange you can buy lots of great packages that come with support and you can even demo most of them before you buy.
If you are looking for 100% free then nothing exists that you will want to use, I strongly suggest you pay for your accounting software.
progress, eh? (Score:1)
TinyERP (Score:3, Insightful)
I put my vote in for TinyERP [tinyerp.org].
It's easy to use, there are great demo's online, and it does everything, multi-platform support, interfacing with eCommerce engines, invoicing, orders, crm, etc...
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(In addition to Payroll, we will also need commercial-class support).
OpenBravo (Score:3, Informative)
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While I have experience with Sage products and hate them just as much as you do for the same reasons and more. One thing that has become clear is they do what you need of them when they aren't screwing up for some weird reason. On the other hand, attempting to use an OSS product for such an important task can be 100 times worse. If you are just a 1 to 20 man company, you might be able to get away with it. When you are larger, (to use a cliche created for women
KCML (Score:1)
Don't expect masses of choice (Score:2)
Bottom line, it's the kind of thing which is very difficult to persuade people to code without paying them. And the itch-scratching crowd which starts a lot of Free projects doesn't tend to
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Tail wagging the dog? (Score:2)
Accounting, as a department, would work with IT to locate the best application for their requirements, with respect to the following: 1) fitness with current or predicted ERP solution(s) if extant, so you don't buy something that doesn't work with
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Choice is clear: dump Linux. (Score:3, Insightful)
Looks pretty black and white to me.
A) Switch OSs. This makes the users and the company happy and saves the company thousands of dollars compared to...
B) Switch Applications. This makes one whiny IT guy happy and will cost the company thousands of dollars in lost time and effort making the conversion and retraining.
Looks like "dump Linux" is the smart choice here.
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How long-term? (Score:2)
Also: Long-term, switching OSes means they have to pay for Vista (thousands of dollars for 400 users, unless they get a deal), and they have to keep paying the Microsoft tax for new versions. It seems very likely to me that if this establishment is around for very long, the sheer co
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> thousands of dollars...
Every penny and more will get spent on retraining and license fees. And then there is the reliability of this vendor. They are screwing you over right now. How long until they do it again? Where will you be if they decide to drop the product entirely?
Mid-Range Accounting Solutions (Score:1)
multiple software for a US _Accountant_ (Score:2)
I've seen worse software - but I've also seen MUCH better. It seems to be written on an Access base, which I think is the root of most of the problems. It no longer just randomly crashes for no reason, but it still occasionally decides to corrupt a data file for no apparent reason. (To date this has been recoverable...) Ne
Don't overlook manual methods (Score:2)
People used to have to do their accounts before computers were invented. They managed fine. Don't assume that you have to use a computer; the simple fact is you don't. Everyone should learn to do their accounts by hand first, before they're allowed anywhere near a computer. Also, non-erasable pen and paper have one obvious advantage that you can't get with a computerised system: there is no UNDO function.
Are you high? (Score:2)
We aren't talking about a mom and pop shop. We are looking at a 400 person company. Manually compiling the payroll alone would be cost prohibitive.
Not to mention since he's a health care provider, the company is required to file their A/R electronically by HIPAA.
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Fanatics again (Score:3, Insightful)
If you were actually doing your job - your preferred solution would be that which was better for your employer. Instead, what's clear, is you place your own religious beliefs ahead of any other consideration.
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Oh, and why is it that trolls always come out with this exact argument -- it's "religious" when people choose Linux (or BSD or O
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If I'd whined about having an MCSE, hell if I even *had* an MCSE, you'd have a point. (But then I don't even work in IT.)
Ah - now it's trollish to suggest that application
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I see, this is crystal clear to you. You have no idea what we do, what our systems are like, what our budgets are, what our users expect or need, what kind of support staff I have (or don't have), what other software we use, what our long-term goals are.... but you know it better than I do, and I hav
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Taking the police weapon analogy a step further, his question is the same as a police officer asking which make and model of pistol to buy. Would you label him a fanatic for being shotgun-exclusionary?
Just because you prefer shotguns doesn't mean that people who prefer pistols are fanatics.
An
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Yes, that's true.
His personal preferences... backed up by his 18 year experience in the field and the confidence of his contractor.
On the other hand, do you chose on any different grounds than your personal preferences? (think about it for a while prior to answer).
Totally free option (Score:1)
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Having played at customizing it a bit recently, that pretty much sums up TinyERP.
It's got a lot of potential, but absolutely requires someone who's familiar with it, or your own guy with plenty of time to work around all the small and not-so-small issues (without documentation, unless you hand over the cash). Some of the bugs are really embarrassing and would've been caught even with minimal testing, if Tiny does any QA on it at all, it's truly appalling, and I can't help but
Hey, let's make extra work! (Score:3, Insightful)
And you're suggesting moving the entire accounting system into a new software package just so you can keep it in Linux?
I'm betting you haven't discussed this with your boss, or with anyone who has ever moved accounting systems between packages.
Keep what works and don't complicate people's lives. Instead going on wild goose chases, take a couple of days and learn the basics of administering the new Vista or XP box.
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No, maybe he's suggesting changing vendors from one that screws existing, long time customers to one that doesn't. What's to prevent this vendor from changing again, forcing another expensive "upgrade" on their clients in the future? If the vendor can't sustain their current level of support, maybe they are in financial trouble themselves. What options would the customers have if the v
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> need to do it for free.
Perhaps he isn't.
Quickbooks is *almost* wineable (Score:2)
I know it doesn't help our non x86 bretheren but with just a little tweaking here and there Linux desktops could finally have a good small business accounting system.
tom-software.com (Score:2)
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Just curious, What type of functionality do you get using flash that couldn't be handled using AJAX?
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There is already some level of consistency if browser implementation differences are abstracted into a common javascript library.
It seems far more inconsitent to have part of a form in html text and other parts in completely isolated plugin objects.
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Maybe none of them are an exact fit for his needs. It sounds like he is trying to "do his homework" right now and you're just being pissy and feeding him flack.
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If he's narrowed it down from hundreds to 39, it sounds as though he HAS eliminated those that aren't a good fit. He needs to winnow it down MUCH further if he "expects" the vendors to jump to respond to his RFP/RFI.
We get a lot of RFP/RFI/RFQs from IT guys who think that the spray method is the right way to go (i.e. send it out to a ton of companies). And I can tell you, the un
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Honest,
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But that's exactly my point - he hasn't sent out 39 RFP's!!
I'm not arguing with your opinion of companies that do that, I'm arguing against trying and convicting someone for a "crime" they haven't committed!
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I work for a vendor. Our software doesn't address this application, but I'll tell you, if I get an RFP like this (provide information to me... and have a one in 39 chance of being selected), I say pound salt. Here's my website. Read it, you lazy ass. Don't have me answer your silly questionnaire just so I can waste my time, and then eliminate me and 37 of my competitors.
Somehow, I don't think your software would have met the requirements anyways. :)
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1) Vendors will not know who is on the list or how many are on the list.
2) I have spent countless hours sorting through often horrible w
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If Linux were to be described as a midrange environment, what would be the specs of a midrange class computer running Linux (or other OS'es)? O
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I will not waste my time to respond to blind RFPs. If I don't know I have a reasonable shot at it, it's either a no-bid or a boiler-plate bid. And yes, boilerplate is the 30-60 minute version. And you can get all that information from our website.
If you want a thorough "answer these questions" response, then you need to convey that I have a reasonable shot at winning the business. 25% at least. Otherwise it's not worth my effort.
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However, it isn't quite up to the task of our whole organization. And without Payroll/HR, it doesn't fit the bill anyway. Their support is also somewhat lacking (yes, we have paid for support).
Yes, we could "outsource" payroll, but that wouldn't really help all that much, since it is almost the same amount of work, usually more expensive, would have to build interf
I use them and would recommend them to you (Score:2)
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