Getting in to a Top Tier College?

IvyLeague Engineer asks: "I'm currently a senior at a top rated public school and I look forward to majoring in Electrical Engineering. I've already been accepted into Carnegie Mellon University, so I don't need to worry about any 'safety' schools. However, I still have my sights set on getting into a school such as MIT or Cal Tech. My grades are high (95.6 on a 100 scale), I have several leadership positions in clubs, however I'm pretty sure that's not enough. What else can I do to improve my chances of being accepted there? I've already been deferred from early action at both institutions and I'm afraid it's too late to do much at this point. I'm sure there are other people like me wondering just what it takes to get admitted to a prestigious college."

Who cares?

[Nasarius]

Life's too short to worry about getting into the "best" schools. Go somewhere you'll enjoy, socially and academically. There's incredible research being done by brilliant professors at public universities too. Do well as an undergrad, and you should have no problem getting accepted to a big name school for your master's, if you need resume candy.

what makes you stand out?

[mrokkam]

From what I have heard, it is what stands out in your application that gets you into an MIT or Caltech. They get a ton of applications... but how good are you relative to the rest of the applicant pool.. and how much can You contribute to the school. You seem to have good leadeship skills... good grades... and all you need is an absolute positive attitude. The last is essential as you have to really sell yourself all the time. Really. If you want to succeed in anything.. it's all about selling yourself right. However, I also agree that an MIT or a Caltech is not necessarily the best "education". Wherever you go, just work hard and spend time to get a broad education (as in... work hard...party harder :-D). You will learn amazing things I promise.

As an Ivy student...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's essentially not about grades -- Don't focus on grades on your application or essay. It's not even about SAT scores. They assume that everyone will have good grades and SAT scores. Focus on what makes you unique and sell sell sell yourself.

Relax dude

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

However, I still have my sights set on getting into a school such as MIT or Cal Tech. My grades are high (95.6 on a 100 scale), I have several leadership positions in clubs, however I'm pretty sure that's not enough.

Getting a great education and trying to be the best are noble pursuits. But if I may, I'd like to give you a perpective on another outlook on life: I too did good studies, I wasn't an impressive student as you seem to be, but I did more than okay considering I may not have you abilities. Then, fresh out of school, I became a software engineer, then I rose in the company and ended up getting a good position and a really good salary for my age.

Then at 30... realized I had a fat bank account no life at all outside work. That's when I quit my job to start "lowly" studies in the completely different field of gunsmithing. Where am I now? I work on guns, I get a low salary (at least compared to what I got before), but I have week-ends off, I don't work my butt off unless I want to, I can see my family at 5pm, and I get up everyday at the same time and eat a proper lunch and dinner with them at the same time everyday. I sleep well at night, I lowered my blood pressure and cholesterol, I have time to bike more, which made me thin out, etc etc...

So I'm not the super-hotshot I was striving to be. I'm a blue collar now, so many of my former "friends" consider I'm a failure and turned away from me, but I'm happier and I'll probably live longer as a result. Sure I'm not earning what I used to, but then I realized I don't need the latest PDA, a collector car or a big house.

My adice to you is, while you have a great career in front of you, try to remember the pursuit of happiness is more important than a good career. If I were you, I'd chill out and go to CMU, which is a great university you've already been accepted in, and I'd try to fret over more important things in life.

Re:Who cares?

[Chapter80]

I want to second that. "Top ranked" schools are over-rated. Do an ROI analysis, and it'll become obvious. Unless they're going to make it VERY cheap for you, you may find that it's just not worth it to go to a "top tier school (as if Carnegie Mellon isn't good enough).

When considering the "R" in ROI, you have to consider all factors, including fun, personal pride, etc. Many people I have met who "had to" go to top tier schools were so insecure that they needed that school name to feel like a whole person. That's silly! Feel good about who you are; you've done quite well - you don't need some school's name to validate you! Feel good about the 95.6% that you got right, not the 4.4% FAILURE RATE that you've had.

That said, if pride is a huge factor to you, and you need the validation, and you think you'd enjoy it, and the costs are comparable, go for it. Just don't feel bad if they "reject" you. You really don't need their validation. And remember what C.S. Lewis says: "pride is the greatest sin."

Re:Who cares?

[SQLGuru]

This post and all of the replies to it that are above mine are spot on. Sure, it looks nice to have a great college on your CV / Resume (whatever you want to call it). But in the end, what determines whether you are going to do well at your profession is you the individual.

I had to opportunity to go to Georgia Tech but decided that I would rather stay in my home state and go to Louisiana Tech. The main reason being that ROI factor that was described by a sibling post. LaTech was free for me (full scholarship). At GaTech, I would have received about half of the out of state rate in scholarships/grants (which by the way was more than the full in state rate @ LaTech). Would I have gotten a better education at GaTech? Most likely. But, I've always been one of the top performers everywhere I've worked since (Fortune 500 companies, so it isn't like I'm comparing myself to only three people). Those top schools only get your foot in the door easier. You, the individual, keeps you with a job.

But if you really want to get into those schools, the key is finding some way to set yourself apart. You have to be unique and memorable. I tell my daughter (who is a Sophomore right now) that there will be hundreds of people with top grades and the typical extracurricular activities. If you want to get into a top school, you have to do something different and something memorable. Whether it's start a small business during a summer (especially for someone going into a business related degree), in your case, participate in a unique engineering project (for example, if your field is construction related: mech-e construction-e, whatever, then design and build a neigborhood play house that is structurally sound). These types of projects show off your interest in the subject, help out the community (always looks good on your application), and will probably be quite fun for you. When you submit it to the schools, don't just write an essay about it, turn it into a professional portfolio. Since this is "above and beyond" the normal application, it will instantly make you more memorable.

Besides, CMU is a well respected school. The difference between CMU and MIT is negligible in the grand scheme of things. If you are expecting to immediately go into an advanced degree (masters, PhD), then getting your undergrad from CMU and your post-graduate degree from MIT or CalTech is more than sufficient.

Layne

Re:Been There

[Furry Ice]

I don't know if there's a deeper meaning to hating the Institvte than I realize, but I can speak to hating Caltech being a common phenomenon. I left at the beginning of my junior year because I really, really hated it. I was doing well academically, but I really should have paid more attention to happiness than prestige. I'll admit now that I largely went there to validate my own intelligence, and also in the hopes that I would never have to prove myself again: I could just drop the name of the college I went to and no further discussion would be necessary, right?! The trouble is, you'd be amazed at how many people have never even heard of Caltech. These aren't the kind of people who would employ you, but it's irritating nonetheless to put in such a tremendous amount of effort (towards an admittedly silly goal) only to find that it didn't even yield a fraction of the expected reward.

I don't want to trash the school entirely. Caltech was a good fit for many of my friends. I do have to qualify that, however. Many of them admitted to me that they were unhappy, but they felt they wouldn't be happier anywhere else. I believe they were telling the truth, and it makes me sad.

Anyway, after a couple of years at a startup, I finished my undergrad at CU Boulder, and I really wish I'd started there as a freshman. It was still fun, but it's kind of cliquey, and many students made their friends freshman year in the dorms and didn't seem to feel a need to expand their circle after that. However, I probably would have had an easier time if I'd scaled back my pride. It's hard to make friends when you're convinced you're superior to everyone else! That can be a downside to the big-fish-in-small-pond supposed advantage of less highly ranked schools. Of course, the problem really has nothing to do with the school...

To the original poster: go where you really want to go. Try your hardest to separate your pride and insecurity from your honest desires. Don't make a decision this big to please or impress anyone else, or just to prove something to yourself. Don't let my experience be a discouragement, either. If you really think you can be happy at MIT or Caltech, go for it! I learned a lot there, perhaps things I wouldn't have learned at a less stressful school. Most importantly, I learned how to learn quickly: how to skim unfamiliar technical content in search of something that will help me solve an actual problem. I learned that I can't possibly know or remember everything (in high school I actually believed I could) so I learned how to find what I need to solve a problem. I stopped memorizing what I learned and started remembering where to find it. But the most important thing I learned is that I like many things besides work and academics, and if I don't have enough time to do them, I get very unhappy. Unfortunately, I had to learn that lesson more than once!

What do you do for fun?

[artifex2004]

If I ran an engineering program, It wouldn't be a matter of selecting the people with the best grades, or even the best test scores. Plenty of people will work hard or have raw intelligence, and if I have a good program, they will queue for it. I'd focus on what people can show me they can do already, with what they have. I'd want to see applicants building their own robots, remote controlled craft of all sorts, a solar greenhouse, a water filtration system perhaps, because these indicate to me an active mind interested in creative problem solving, and the initiative to get things done.

Remember, engineering used to be a term synonymous with "professional genius." Have you done much on your own initiative? And if not, why not? Do you not have questions you want answered? Engineering may be something you get bored with, if you don't have that drive, and that drive should be obvious by now. I'll take a grimy Edison or a von Braun over a valedictorian with a complete modern science and math education, but no fire.

An Edison can learn the prerequisites on demand. A feckless valedictorian can't learn to be an Edison. Which are you? That's how you get in. And if you somehow slip through anyway, you'll shine at whatever school you go to, and you won't care, as long as you have toys to play with, problems to solve.