Boosting Cell Phone Signals in Strange Places?

hedgemage asks: "I work at a retirement home and we have trouble with the cell phones that our nursing and maintenance staff use. The problem is that our nursing home area is built into a lower level that was originally constructed as a fallout shelter in 1960. There's a lot of solid concrete in the walls and ceiling. We have paid out tens of thousands to try and get an on-site mobile to work using NEC Dterm PSII phones, but they have proven absolutely unreliable (not just in the bomb shelter but throughout the campus) and the only solution our telecom provider has is to install several thousand dollars more in transceivers. If we could use ordinary cell phones, it would be ideal for everyone. Is there an off-the-shelf solution that could boost regular cellular signals in our bomb shelter?"

Here's a solution

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

The problem is that our nursing home area is built into a lower level that was originally constructed as a fallout shelter in 1960. There's a lot of solid concrete in the walls and ceiling.

Propose management to relocate the retirement home to a nicer place with, for example, windows and sunlight. Jesus man, who the hell make older folks live in a former fallout shelter? It's really sad. Tell me where it is so I know never to send my mother there...

Re:Here's a solution

[artifex2004]

Propose management to relocate the retirement home to a nicer place with, for example, windows and sunlight. Jesus man, who the hell make older folks live in a former fallout shelter? It's really sad. Tell me where it is so I know never to send my mother there...

What, you weren't planning on visiting the facility to which you'll send your mother, first? :)

Cultural Differences

[bill_mcgonigle]

Propose management to relocate the retirement home to a nicer place with, for example, windows and sunlight. Jesus man, who the hell make older folks live in a former fallout shelter? It's really sad. Tell me where it is so I know never to send my mother there...

It's worth pointing out that you think these folks are cocksuckers for sticking old folks underground yet a Chinese person would probably say the same thing about you planning to ship your mother off when she gets to be difficult.

yep

[mastershake_phd]

Theyre called cell phone repeaters. They are expensive ~ $300 - $100 and may run afoul of the FCC. If the cells are for job related communication, why not get some walkie-talkies?

Wilson Electronics

[mosel-saar-ruwer]

Wilson Electronics has some way-cool products as far as cell phone antennae & signal boosters are concerned:

http://www.wilsoncellular.com [wilsoncellular.com] [not to be confused with wilsonantenna.com]

parent: They are expensive ~ $300 - $100

I assume you meant "$300 - $1000", but for a communications device that is meant to be used by tens [and possibly hundreds] of people, in a business setting, that strikes me as decidedly inexpensive.

Or maybe I just haven't been keeping up with telecomm prices these days [isn't the Apple iPhone supposed to start at $499.99?].

PS: The real "expense" will be the time you invest on ladders above hung ceilings, or in attics, or crawling around basement crawl spaces, pulling RG-6 coaxial cable.

[Or paying the illegal aliens to do it for you...]

More examples

[pestie]

I got a catalog not long ago from Cyberguys [cyberguys.com] and I remembered seeing just such a repeater in there. I have no idea about the quality of the repeater or of Cyberguys, so do some reasearch first. But if you're interested, they have this [cyberguys.com] and this [cyberguys.com], either of which may work for you.

Re:

[commanderfoxtrot]

In the UK, BT is starting to sell home repeaters legally.

I presume however, you are in the USA...

Re:

[TubeSteak]

Theyre called cell phone repeaters. ...and may run afoul of the FCC.

I'm pretty sure that the FCC's original "big idea" for the layout of cellular coverage involved businesses, high rise buildings, and apt complexes buying repeaters and installing them to boost coverage.

Obviously, that never materialized & the cell companies had to build their networks out instead.

Here's an article for submitter to read [slate.com]
"Why does the much cheaper device do a better job? Perhaps because the more expensive one tries harder

Wifi

[MikeFM]

I'd go with Wifi and get Wifi enabled cellphones (like T-Mobile has) that will enable you to place and receive calls via Wifi when it is available. It'll save you airtime charges too if you can use your own Wifi internally.

Or if you don't need cell capabilities and don't mind a bit crappier phones you can get Wifi phones for Skype and Vonage.

Ads by Google

[gooman]

I like how this page showed up with some answers before anyone posted.

Re:

[antdude]

What ads? [grins and smiles at AdBlock [mozdev.org] extension]

Leaky coaxial cable

[Dibblah]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=leaky+coaxi al&btnG=Search&meta= [google.co.uk] Does exactly what it says on the tin. Used in tunnels in Europe for cell phone coverage.

wifi phones

[oohshiny]

Just use wifi phones and put wifi repeaters on the campus.

Passive Repeater

[Detritus]

A passive repeater can be built from a pair of antennas and a segment of low-loss coax. One antenna is installed on the roof or any place that can provide a strong signal. The second antenna is installed in the problem area. Connect the two with low-loss coax.

It's not a great solution but it's cheap and simple.

Use 800 MHz and Passive Repeater

[linuxtelephony]

This is what I was going to propose as well. Passive is the way to go, simply because you should be able to do this without running afoul of the FCC.

Here are a few more details to help with this:

(1) Make sure your service provider is one of the cellular carriers in the 800 mhz band. While this will work for both cellular and pcs frequency bands, generally speaking the 800 mhz will have a slight advantage for penetration within buildings. At this point you will probably need every edge you can get.

(2) Locate

Re:

[hoggoth]

> contact the wireless phone provider you are using, and ask them about setting up a micro-cell, repeater, or enhancer

I don't know what universe you live in, but in mine my wireless phone provider can barely explain my bill, and technical support consists of: 'Power it off, then power it on again' repeated ten times, followed by 'your phone is broken you have to buy a new one', all in an Indian accent. If I were to ask about a 'micro-cell' they would reply that nothing is on sale at this time. If I were

Re:

[afidel]

If you have a decent sized account you can get ahold of your account exec who hopefully either knows something or knows the internal people who do. The cellphone providers have microcells and portable cells that they use for conventions and sporting events, the technology exists so it's just a matter of cost.

Get one of these

[eagl]

Get one of these.

http://www.jdteck.com/repeaters-consumer.htm [jdteck.com]

Yea they cost a few hundred bucks, but they look really simple.

Re:

[mistert2]

I have a friend that uses the XY500-pcs(from wireless extenders) with sprint and his metal roof. He had problems with it repeating a non-sprint signal that had good coverage in his house. He just moved the antenna and it was working.
Good luck.

Re:

[ptbarnett]

I also found these:

http://www.signalwide.com/ [signalwide.com]

However, the product that you would want (the "WorkBase") has been "Coming this fall" since the middle of last year.

An alternative solution

[Z00L00K]

could be to use passive components:

Directional antennas on a rooftop that points directly to the nearest celltower(s).

Omnidirectional antennas indoors at strategic location, one indoor antenna per external antenna.

Use low-loss cabling between the antennas. The cabling and installation of the cables may be the most expensive issue. As this is a completely passive solution you shouldn't have any trouble with FCC.

There are certainly disadvantages with this solution too, and it may not work or be feasible for your situation.

Use older technology.

[jonadab]

You may be making things more complicated than they have to be by insisting on the absolute newest technology. Sometimes an older technology fits the situation better. For instance, if you just run some land lines down there, you can install regular old cordless phones. With the base-stations and the phones both in the sheltered area together, reception should be largely unaffected by the super-thick walls, and Bob is your uncle.

Enhanced Full Rate mode on?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dunno if it actually does anything but there used to be such mode that would supposedly use more battery to produce stronger signal. In some phones you activate it with *3370# (phone will switch off) and disable it wih #3370#.

Talk to the Carriers

[Chris Tyler]

Talk to the cellphone carrier(s) about this -- I know Telus in Canada had a program where they would install RF equipment (boosters or micro-cells, I'm not sure) for use in warehouses, etc. (though of course I can't find the page right now!). If your volume is small, you might pay, but if you have enough users they might put in a micro-cell on their dime. If they are aware of the business opportunity they will probably figure out how to accomodate you.

have you worked with your provider?

[notgm]

as a one-time employee of a smaller provider, and now as a bigger provider, i suggest that you first see if there are any smaller providers in your area willing to set up a repeater for you in/on your building. if a customer made enough noise, and had a big enough account (tens of phones, maybe?) we could be swayed into helping out with signal propogation. if you start talking about using repeaters on your own, depending on the law in your area, you may force their hand, as an improperly tuned network cou

hmm.....

[thatshortkid]

Ask Slashdot: Boosting Cell Phone Signals in Strange Places?

What, like the back of a Volkswagen?

Original Title

[hedgemage]

My original title was, "Cell Phone Service in a Bomb Shelter" but I immagine that it was toned down by the /. staff for being a bit too explosive for the actual content.

A bit more Info

[hedgemage]

OP here, thanks for the answers so far. I'm not a telecom expert, but I've been given this task, so I'm having to learn quick. We've been using some cheap PTT radios, but still have some dead areas with them (oddly enough different dead areas than cell phone reception). Unfortunately, the nursing staff need to be able to contact doctors, family, 911, etc. from any location, hence my search for a phone solution.
Also, the truly bunkered-in sections are our maintenance shop, break room, and storage, so whil

Again, Wilson Electronics

[mosel-saar-ruwer]

You ended your original comment by saying: If we could use ordinary cell phones, it would be ideal for everyone. Is there an off-the-shelf solution that could boost regular cellular signals in our bomb shelter?

Again, as I mentioned above, if you want to go the route of "regular cellular signals", then I'd take a long, hard look at Wilson Electronics [or an equivalent competitor]:

http://www.wilsoncellular.com [wilsoncellular.com]

[not to be confused with wilsonantenna.com]

The interconnections are made with RG-6 [RG-58] co

It doesn't seem that difficult...

[babyrat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_repeater [wikipedia.org]

Would VOIP phones be viable?

[Wingmanjd01]

Someone above mentioned WiFi phones. I know of various wireless VOIP phones (i.e. from Skype) that could use a normal AP to broadcast. It'd save on minutes/ phone plans too. I'm not sure about the price range/ number of users you have, but it might be a viable option. My previous school was once an USAF base as well as fallout shelter, so I felt the pain of having little to no service. I often used Skype on my Pocket PC to dial out via our campus wireless. Hope this helps!

Femtocell

[flatulus]

Learn this new buzzword: Femtocell

It was all the rage at the recent 3GSM trade show in Barcelona. I happen to work for a company developing such a product.

They're not ready for primetime today, and even if they were, your cellular operator would have to offer it as part of their service -- you couldn't use one independently. But in the next year or two, they will begin to be a commodity.

Sorry it won't help your problem *today* - but maybe it's a consolation that a product is being developed to meet your

Tiger direct catalog

[DRACO-]

Only 300 bucks from tiger direct's catalog this month.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTool s/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1829799&Sku=H529-0002 [tigerdirect.com]

I've done this.

[adolf]

I recently completed the installation of a distributed antenna system in a new hospital building. 7 floors, 300 feet by 150 feet.

It works well. There is now excellent coverage throughout for cellular phones (specifically, 800MHz cellular A and B for Alltel and Verizon). There is also a separate, parallel system installed for the local public safety agencies 2-way radios, which really was the main point of the project. Adding more cellular carriers would be reasonably straight-forward at this point, now

Sticky Antenna

[GWBasic]

Back when I was in college, I stuck a passive cellphone booster antenna on my window. It helped. You might be able to stick a passive cellphone antenna outside, and run a wire inside.

I hate to say this, but you can watch the movie "Panic Room" for a Hollywood example of what I described.