Do You Get a UNIX Workstation at Work? 290
Fished asks: "This may be a selfish question, but so far as I can tell it hasn't been asked before. I'm currently a Solaris System Engineer in a Very Large Company. This Very Large Company has predictably standardized on Windows as their corporate desktop. However, they are also of the opinion that nobody needs anything -but- Windows on their desktop. If you're a UNIX/Linux systems engineer/administrator in a large company, do they give you a desktop for the platform you manage? Do you have any tips on justifying your need for a second, UNIX-based desktop to the powers that be?"
"While Windows may be a truth for most employees, as a System Engineer I find that my productivity is much lower when I am forced to use Windows on my desktop. I spend way too much time overcoming the ways in which Windows is just different from UNIX, and not enough time getting my job done. Loading Solaris X86 is not an option, since we are required to use a bunch of software that is Windows only (much of it sloppily written, IE only internal websites, with fun things like ActiveX controls.) VmWare works, but is certainly less than ideal."
Does Linux Count? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Does Linux Count? (Score:5, Interesting)
For the whole package, you can kill explorer.exe in Windows, and set Exceed up to route "root mouse actions to X" and you can even fire up your favorite window manager. I used to run Fluxbox full screen over SSH from our development server all the time. So, in a way, I just made the dev server my Unix workstation.
Keep in mind that people in large companies would usually rather do things by the book than cater to the exception. Unless you are buddies with the CTO, it's not likely you're going to convince anyone to brush aside any long-standing policies.
Odd (Score:3, Informative)
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But you should also get a box on your desk running Solaris.. it would be easy to convince them to buy you another $800 box to sit under your desk (the Ultra 20 is hardly expensive) for development work. Development work is the key; if you want to make any crazy changes to the server, you don't want to do it live and screw up. Maybe you want to test out some configurations or so and are happy to trash the box under your desk. That's a great justification. And for the meagre
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I work at a the worlds largest computer manufacturer. Of course all our design/validation happens in UNIX land. We have about 20K UNIX hosts at my site, and probably 100K worldwide.
At my site, except for about 30 UNIX hosts dedicated to running testers. All of our UNIX is in data centers. We all carry XP laptops for email, office tools, and browser. And of course it really sucks, as you would imagine, there are more admins for XP mail alone, than for all of UNIX land software.
The one upside we have, is
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Putty is a poor imitation of Xterm, and an even worse simulation of a Linux VT. The X servers are alright, but are not in the same league as Xorg.
Sure, these tools are what I'd need to just barely do my job from a Windows workstation, but what you've suggested is similar to telling a Windows admin to "just use Rdesktop, it's close enough". Although I'd happily provide a copy in an emergency, I'd never presume to tell a Windows admin that the wrong OS is good enough for him to do his job. One should not ha
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Nice to see someone actually come out and say that. Personally, I think the vast majority of Putty users belong the Don't Know Any Different category. If there's a compromise to be made along those lines, the better choice would be Cygwin, but that brings us close to your rdesktop comparison.
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Make that "some curses apps like top". While PuTTY has made improvements in this area, it still has various bugs, glitches, and limitations with graphics.
The truth is that PuTTY is not all that good. However, being designed for Windows users, it is "just enough" for many. I would need time to compile a list of complaints, but I know that using it highly irks me. On the other hand, it is the *best* free terminal emulator for Windows.
Of course, cmd.exe/command.com is a whole heck of a
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You need something that can run the same software your server does in order to ex
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KVM + QEMU (Score:2)
Another approach might be KVM (the kernel module, not the hardware switch) and Qemu. Then the OP could, in theory anyway, run Win32 and Linux side by side on the same box and switch between them at need.
As I understand it, the KVM works a lot like Xen, except it doesn't need a modified version of windows like Xen does. And apparently the in-kernel support clears up Qemu's performance issues.
That said: I haven't got around to trying this myself yet. Still it might be a better solution than VMWare, whic
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Oops. I meant to include a link [qumranet.com]
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I was thinking more along the lines of "install Linux and run windows under KVM/QEMU". You can even keep a windows dual boot partition so you still have windows installed. ostensibly as your main OS. It's just that somehow you end up spending most of your time booted into Linux...
It worked for me. With VMWare, admittedly. Mind you, when using VMWare, I find Linux Host/XP Guest configurations far less annoying than XP Host/Linux Guest setups. Maybe that's all that is needed.
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NO NO NO (Score:2)
1. Microsoft Services for Unix (if your computer has hardware NX support enabled, skip down to 'Or:'
2. Xming X-server for Windows
3. the Interopsys GNU software distribution for SFU (www.interopsystems.com/tools)
Or:
1. VMware Workstation
2. Solaris 10 free DVDs.
Or:
1. Cygwin
Or:
1. the win32 gnu utils (unxutils.sourceforg.net / gnuwin32.sourceforge.net)
2. Activestate Perl
3. putty/pscp/psftp
You really don't need a unix workstation. With ssh and perl, what CAN'T you do? does 'ls : command not f
So ask for two Windows machines (Score:2, Informative)
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Of course, making the case for a unix/linux install even
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Even the most frugal corporations have old hardware lying around in a storage room somewhere. It shouldn't be all that hard to get a hold of another system if you're friends with an IT guy or a server admin.
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The difficult part will be
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-sirket
An X server application (Score:2)
I am in somewhat the same position, but it is recognised here that our Unix servers are a necessity. So everyone in our department gets WRQ Reflection as a standard application, and we run Samba on one of the Unix servers.
I guess I have to ask (Score:5, Interesting)
So you need to first come up with a good reason or reasons as to why a Windows desktop doesn't work for you. Not liking it isn't a good reason, there's plenty about work I don't like, but then they are paying me so I'll do what I'm told. If you can't come up with a good technical reason, then probably you really don't need one. Pride and/or personal preference aren't a good reason when it comes to a work environment.
Also, since they are standardised on Windows desktops, you presumably have Windows support people. Get them to maintain your desktop and don't worry about it.
Re:I guess I have to ask (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a very backwards approach to getting work done.
Let your users list the tools with which they work most effectively. Then you cross tools off the list if and only if you have a very good reason or reasons to not provide those tools.
"We provide Windows because we are a Windows shop" really is the tail wagging the dog.
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Phrased that way yes, to does seem like circular logic. But try asking why the are a windows shop... the phrase ends up looking more like "We provide one operating system because it allows us to standarize our support costs, personnel training, security procedures, and software licences".
Re:I guess I have to ask (Score:4, Insightful)
And yes, having windows on the desktop != having a unix. You can't manage ssh keys and custom ssh configs as easily with ssh.com and securecrt as with openssh. There is nothing like bash or perl that ships standard with windows. Ever tried setting up X forwarding on windows for that occasional unix gui application? Ever had to keep custom scripts that login to various servers for routine tasks? Ever had to script an ssh authentication script that logs into the new server just setup and copies over your ssh keys, vimrc, bashrc etc? Ever had to deal with antivirus hogging your CPU and memory? The list can be endless, but it definitely helps as an admin to have the OS of your choice.
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The way I see it, my employer can let me use a *nix and work to my full potential, or they can pay me to be less productive with Windows. Either way is fine by me. But Debian is free and having me waste time figuring out Windows is really expensive. If that's not a good enough reason, they won't be convinced.
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The company doesn't care, they buy whatever PC Dell/HP/IBM are shipping this month in the knowledge that it'll work in Windows. They're not going to spend weeks ensuring that they're getting something for which Linux drivers exist.
Also, the IT department has a limited budget. Training someone up so they can offer support to the 3 peop
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The person in question is already a tech, no point in doing such a thing.
Uh, how about so that he can do his actual job instead of fixing problems with his workstation when they occur?
The great thing about having centrally managed setups (like you see so often with Windows) is that you can basically swap out workstations and have your complete environment right there. If something breaks on your workstation, you call IT, they bring you a new computer, swap it for your old one, and you continue working.
If you have a different OS, this no longer works. You can either manage it
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At home, I can heavily customize the gnome interface; I can tie into widgets with simple scripts, and I can execute commands like: .avi\' $i; | cut -b23-32` /mnt/vidoes/location/; done
for all i in `find . | grep [.]avi$`; do mv `rename 's\.*[Ss]0([0-9])[Ee]([0-9][0-9]).*\$1$2 -
Now, granted that's a very specialized task that I probably wouldn't need to do at work, but similar things have been done all of the time. Back when I worked
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You're somehow implying that Windows doesn't have problems that extend into several day shitfests. Show me a video that works in the default install of XP, and I'll show you two that do not. Show me one that doesn't in linux, and I'll show you two that do. You'll get nowhere with your strawmans about hypothetical video cards. There are lists of cards that do not work with linux. There are lists of cards that do work with linux. If you step out of those bounds, you have no ground to stand on.
The company doesn't care, they buy whatever PC Dell/HP/IBM are shipping this month in the knowledge that it'll work in Windows. They're not going to spend weeks ensuring that they're getting something for which Linux drivers exist.
Y
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So which graphics card would that be? I hear people spout this shit all the time, but they never give
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Yes, you do a lot of things remotly, but there's also a few things you might want to do locally. And doing it on Windows is not efficient at all when you're used to Unix.
So you need to first come up with a good reason or reasons as to why a Windows desktop doesn't work for you. Not liking it isn't a good reason, there's plenty about work I don't like, but then they are paying me so I'll do what I'm told.
Not liking it
Re:I guess I have to ask (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't like it because it makes me less productive and I feel crippled when there is a fire to put out.
Don't take my awk and perl and even gedit and vi. I work as a Unix admin for a small ISP and the Linux on the desktop is invaluable.
For auditing e-mail directories, writing scripts to parse the output of a mysql script, using scp to bounce files all over the place, working with tarballs, wget to see what
a web page is really made of in an instant... making expect scripts for the few ancient internal Cisco things, snmptools to fetch all kinds of things
and use them in scripts. I could go on and on.. Ohh... and I use dig and whois all the time!
All in all, I am much more productive when I can do all these things quickly on the command line in 6 terminals at once rather then use Putty, WinSCP, Teraterm even Cygwin. I've tried this and I like Windows right. Just not for being a sysadmin.
Well, it's funny, the corporation prohibits you from installing and using FREE software in an area where you really won't be affecting any one else.
It's not like they have to support it. I guess that would irk me. But still, you do have a point, you do what you are told and roll with the changes. I guess I'm just lucky.
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Lots of people don't know a VERY handy tool called "screen" ("man screen") which is available for most any *nix. You log onto a *nix box (be it via ssh or putty) and start screen. Screen allows you to easily open, and switch between as many shell instances you need/want. Check it out, it
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Fat Chance (Score:2)
Hard to Believe (Score:2, Insightful)
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-Michael
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ssh (Score:2)
How can you be a sysadmin and not have any say in (Score:2)
Cygwin (Score:2)
Dave
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So if you have cygwin open and want to install openssl, you can't just type apt-get install openssl, you need to find the installer program (in Windows), and run it, and select the new packages.
It would be nice to be able to do all that stuff, aside from inst
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Viable alternatives (requires admin access,) (Score:2, Informative)
Administer yourself a new workstation (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Administer yourself a new workstation (Score:5, Insightful)
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heh... (Score:2)
Other machines have keyboards that were manufactured post-AT, and run RedHat with a slick emulation of the dumb terminal
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Weren't you collecting these keyboards? I know you did a JE about them.
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No, but. (Score:2)
My History (Score:2)
Previous Job (HP) - Unix desktop, two windows laptops (two networks, each laptop was only allowed on one)
Previous Job (EDS) - Unix desktop, windows laptop
Previous Job - Unix desktops (Two SGI workstations!)
That takes me back to 1998 or so. I've pretty much always been on a Unix (like) workstation, with a Windows laptop for the odd cases that require it.
Even with EDS, who is very strongly partnered with Microsoft, I still had a Sun on my desk.
rdesktop (Score:2)
Another possibility would be running IE in Linux, under Wine -- there is actually a script (ies4linux, I think?) which does that very well.
Also, complain to whoever did the sloppy stuff. I don't mean pitch a fit, call the CEO, nothing like that -- ju
Simple (Score:3, Funny)
Test Box (Score:5, Insightful)
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A test box is a box that techs use to test and try things on. A UN*X workstation is a techs personal playground. In many cases they actually _are_ a lot of trouble. Especially is the test box is shared most professionals will have some dicipline in not using it for things hey shouldn't.
I;ve seen too many times a tech leaing a company and all kind of things going wrong when he workstation was shut down. ALso the opposite case I've seen happen, all of he sudden all kinds
Yes, I do. (Score:2)
* One laptop running Windows
* One laptop running Linux
* One x86 workstation running Linux
* One x86 workstation running Solaris
* Two Sun Fire V120s (these will be moved into my lab racks eventually)
Unfortunately the budget's a bit tight these days, otherwise I'd be asking for an Ultra 45 to replace my older Dell.
The trick is to be good at what you do, and then say you can do better with more hardware (and prove it once you get
Dream on, slashdot (Score:3, Insightful)
What slashdotters don't seem to realize is you can't "just install such-n-such" or "ssh into such-n-such" or "boot from such-n-such" in a controlled corporate environment. If they say Windows, then it's Windows, and don't even think about installing something not in the standard load.
Say hello to Clippy.
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Yes, and we use VMWare for development (Score:2)
If I were forced to use Windows, I'd just VNC into a nearby Unix box and use that as my full-time desktop.
UNIX desktops (Score:3, Insightful)
We all have Macs.
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They asked me when I got hired (Score:2)
They ask this because they realize that people are more productive when they use an OS they are familiar with. Supporting linux isn't that hard, since the OS is everwhere at work (indeed, there are people on the payroll who get paid to hack the linux kernel).
Depends on what department you work in. (Score:2)
NX server (Score:2)
Mac? (Score:2)
Some of our best devs log in from Windows (Score:2)
I get one at home too :D (Score:2)
Yes. And a question. (Score:2)
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If you do use wine, even if it works great for Outlook, sooner or later the company is going to want you to run Word/Excel/Project or probably some home-grown time-tracking app that won't run with wine.
I'd have the co
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Utter Apathy (Score:2)
But seriously,
G
So many computers these days (Score:2)
I used to use a *nix laptop... (Score:2)
Not too long after starting at where I work, I was given the task of overseeing my employer's Linux boxes. Seeing as most users did their Office et al work via Windows terminal server, I loaded Linux onto my laptop and used rdesktop for the terminal servers. It was... okay, but the power management and various interface issues annoyed me. I ended up buying a PowerBook G4 for both work and personal use, and it worked beautif
Talk to your standards people (Score:2)
The bottom line is that we can't do our work in Windows, therefore we run something we can get our work done in.
It's your manager's job to make sure you have what you need to do your job. If you need Linux/Solaris/Whatever, talk to you manager.
How will it help you do your job better? (Score:3, Interesting)
If it will help you do your job better, your boss should be insisting that you have Unix on your desk. Demanding, even.
Will it? Define "better". Make the case. Steal one, if you have to.
I have Solaris and Linux in my cubicle for my real work. I read my email on the "company standard" Windows 2000 box, and run a few brain-damaged legacy apps on an XP box in the lab.
I had the first Linux box in the company. We were a Solaris shop until the PHBs decided they preferred Windows. We have legacy products that are Solaris based, and still use Solaris for our new servers. I told my boss there was this whole new world out there, and if we didn't get with it, others would and we would lose. I was right, and our current flagship product is a direct result of that discussion.
...laura
Time for a server upgrade (Score:2, Insightful)
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Yes it is possible to be so narrow minded you can see through the keyhole with both eyes at once :-)
Yes (Score:2)
Re:Do you need a Unix machine? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, he could use ssh for all that, but in most cases, it is much more convenient to work locally than remotely.
At my job, I do C# development. I could use Mono on Linux for that, and I would prefer to have a solid OS like Linux, but it's being deployed on Windows. Therefore I use Windows to develop it. It's a matter of using the appropriate tools for the task at hand.