Is DVORAK Gaining Traction Among Coders? 559
coderpath asks: "At a recent Seattle Ruby Brigade hack night someone asked how many people used the DVORAK keyboard layout. Out of 9 people, 7 used DVORAK and only 2 were using QWERTY. I personally made the switch last Christmas, after 25 years of typing with QWERTY. What do you use? Have you switched to DVORAK? Have you been wanting to make the switch? Has anyone else noticed an increase in adoption of DVORAK lately?"
Vim (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Vim (Score:5, Interesting)
On top of that, I've -never- seen a Dvorak keyboard. I'm sure I could find some online if I looked, but I'm -very- happy with the feel of my current keyboard (I own 2 and a wireless version of it now) and don't look forward to trying to find a Dvorak layout one that I like.
There's still just too many reasons not to switch, and only 1 to switch: It's supposedly quicker. (Last I heard, it actually wasn't enough quicker to care.)
If only the cost was less... (Score:5, Interesting)
I know I could get a cheap QWERTY and rearrange the keys. But (at least from the pictures I've seen), wouldn't be a true DVORAK layout. If I could cheaply obtain or emulate a DVORAK layout, I would try it. But right now, I have a laptop, so I would only use it when I'm at my desk and I would need to purchase one first. The idea of switching back and forth day after day and the cost just doesn't help...
dvorak is useless (Score:2, Interesting)
My sample (Score:5, Interesting)
Addressing some myths:
Dvorak is fun! (Score:5, Interesting)
I have been using Dvorak for years. It has been an interesting mental exercise...but I would not say it is more productive. It's just different.
Some things you should consider before taking the plunge:I also had some unforeseen side-effects occur using Dvorak. When I had first started becoming proficient in it, my QWERTY skill practically disappeared from lack of use. When I had gotten my first web design job, my boss thought I was a computer newbie at first because I was typing so slow and with so little confidence. I didn't want to go mucking changing his keyboard layout so I was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Thank God keyboards have the QWERTY letters on them. (I never thought I would say that.)
On the other hand, my computer is an impenetrable fortress of solitude nowadays. I run a desktop with no icons, Dvorak keyboard layout, Left handed mouse setup, all on top of Japanese Linux. You just try and touch my computer. I recommend you use a 6 foot stick.
To wrap up, I want to say you're a sissy if you actually buy a Dvorak keyboard or dare rearrange the keys. Thank you.
I use Dvorak but (Score:4, Interesting)
If you want to learn Dvorak, like a foreign language I would suggest to plunge in and stop using qwerty. Your muscle memory needs to get accustomed to the new system and changing in between is not helpful. I initially tried learning dvorak by taking online lessons in small doses. After six months, I wasn't getting anywhere. I switch cold turkey one weekend, and by Monday morning, was a touch typist again (I spent roughly 6 hours on online lessons that weekend and did all my other computer stuff in Dvorak).
There are potentially better layouts designed recently but I want to ask anyone with experience with the "Neo" Tastatur/Layout - is it better in your experience?
Neo Layout:
(German - has useful visual comparison to QWERTY, DVORAK, and other layouts)
http://pebbles.schattenlauf.de/layout.php [schattenlauf.de]
If you never have heard of it:
English:
http://pebbles.schattenlauf.de/layout/index_us.ht
Re:Vim (Score:5, Interesting)
I was like that before I switched. I'm like that after I switched. I wasn't like that for about a month in between. And I'm better at vi for it, too.
On top of that, I've -never- seen a Dvorak keyboard.
Fancy that, neither have I. You (i.e. I) touchtype dvorak. The only value you'll ever get out of looking at the keyboard is because it's fun to look at yourself typing on a keyboard with the keys marked wrong, and you can't do that with a dvorak keyboard.
There's still just too many reasons not to switch, and only 1 to switch: It's supposedly quicker.
Most reasons against switching are false; about the only one worth listening to is that lots of people use your computer and/or you use lots of computers. A very good reason, certainly, but still only one.
And the purported benefit of dvorak is that it's more ergonomic. This results in it being a little faster, but it's not the point. That's why if you do want to buy a dvorak keyboard, you'll find that almost none of them have the standard physical arrangement. But I do certainly notice the benefits of dvorak with my regular-format keyboards.
Did and went back (Score:2, Interesting)
1) Shortcut keys (control-z, control-x, control-c, etc..) are all over the freaking place in DVORAK.
(If there was some way to do DVORAK for normal typing and switch back to QWERTY when control/alt/command are held down, then that would probably be cool. I don't know of any way to do that though)
2) Other people. If I've been typing DVORAK for weeks, and I try to use someone's QWERTY computer, I turn into a retarded monkey. Similarly, anyone that tries to use my computer turns into a retarded monkey.
But if a wide-spread adoption of DVORAK ever breaks out, I am willing and ready!
Re:If only the cost was less... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've got one of those IBM spring-loaded keyboard that my mum got from work with an old PC, so i could re-arrange the key caps (not even the physical keys, but the cap with the letters on) to Dvorak. I even changed the Qwerty keyboards at school to the Dvorak settings (which should help my learning as i can't do hunt-and-peck at the keys). And never noticed anything useful.
Now it may have been in part that i would every-so-often have to use a Qwerty layout (such as a friend's keyboard and hence wouldn't change it), but Dvorak made fuck all different to any typing skills, sticking to Qwerty is so much easier...
I also used the Dvorak switch to learn to type properly (when i use Qwerty i only use one finger on my right hand, fucked up, but it works as a typing style and is damned quick no matter what anyone says). So from that i should have learned to type faster, because not only was i using Dvorak, but typing in the proper style (4 fingers on home keys and such). But it never helped my typing speed.
Finally, no-one should spend that much on a keyboard. We've got 3 IBM spring-loaded keyboards probably worth a good £50+ each, but they're worth so much more to keep any type on compared to any new keyboard
Re:If only the cost was less... (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm a coder and I will NEVER use qwerty again if I have a choice. Plus, no one will mess with my computer. It's better than a password. Typing is SOOOO much easier on Dvorak. I'd been using qwerty for over 10 years and I could not type worth sh*t. I still can't type fast, but I can touch type and I can do over 50 wpm in code-wise with Dvorak. 45 to 80 in regular text mode. There's always a word here and there that slows me down (bursts of speed with the odd slow word). Not because of the keyboard. Just because I don't like typing. So I went from 25 wpm to 50wpm and in text mode and if I'm really into it, I can reach over 100wpm. In qwerty, the best I could do is 40wpm (yes, I was a sad sight). So for me, it's been a win-win scenario. I couldn't get any worse at qwerty than I was, so it was never an issue. I still type at the same 25wpm speed on qwerty.
Oddly enough, even at 25wpm I'm still the fastest coder I've ever seen. So if you think the keyboard makes a difference in coding speed, you're 100% wrong. If you switch to Dvorak, do it because it's easier and more comfortable. You hardly have to move your fingers. Mostly, you just push down where they're at. But for a coder, speed and wpm don't mean a thing. Typing takes less than 1% of the total work. The typing stage is after everything has already been decided. You're just plugging in details at this point and going through the motions. I'll never understand people who sit at a computer to program software. The computer just slows me down. I'd get bored programming in front of a computer. The funny thing is real programmers understand this implicitly like I'm stating the obvious, yet it seems so nonsensical to debutants.
An interesting connection between OS and keyboard (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:DVORAK -- just for fanatics (Score:3, Interesting)
There is no amount of time I could spend training myself in QWERTY that would keep it from hurting my hands and wrists.
How to learn. re: If only the cost was less... (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, as to how to learn it. The way i did it was to grab an image of the layout off of the web and i edited it to separate the keys into three groups by column:
The left-most group was everything under keys 1 - 4, the middle column the things that were under 5 and 6 and the right-most group everything else. Then i put the image up on the screen in a corner and referred to it whenever i needed to hit a key and i didn't know where it was. I found the spliting it up made it much easier to visualize which finger i should be using for each key since all of the fingers (except for the index fingers and the right pinky stay in their own columns. Hmm... if i had to do it over maybe i would further separate the extra right pinky cluster.
The first two or three days... it was pretty darned painful, but it got better quickly after that. (Note, i didn't touch type in Qwerty (and still don't)).
To clarify what i meant about the keyboard layout... my picture looked something like what's below (but i've added my newly devised separation for the area where the right pinky reaches out to the right from its own column):
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 [ ]
' , . p y f g c r l / = \
a o e u i d h t n s -
; q j k x b m w v z
Note: if you have a MS Natural keyboard or similar you'll have to hit the 6 with your left index finger, but c'est la vie.
check out this guy's blog entry for a picture one might modify.
http://www.leeholmes.com/blog/CommentVie
(hmm... maybe i should copyright and or trademark this split keyboard image idea
Re:Dvorak is fun! (Score:3, Interesting)
My conclusion is that much of the DVORAK claims are wishful myth.
Success story (Score:2, Interesting)
It was a difficult transition, but made easier by doing it during summer break from school. It was about 2 weeks before I could type comfortably, and probably 2 months before my speed was up to my previous QWERTY speed.
Here are the good things about switching. It forced me to learn touch typing, which has lead to an increase in typing speed and ease, simply because I never look at the keyboard anymore. Your fingers don't have to move as far from their baseline position as much, and you tend to alternate between right and left hand much more, which is much more comfortable on the fingers. Having the _- key so close at hand has been very handy.
Here are the bad things about the switch. I technically could have learned touch typing on QWERTY and achieved a similar speed increase. The windows computers in the computer lab I frequent have the settings locked down so I cannot change the keyboard layout, though I solve this by using the linux computers at almost all times. The 'c' and 'v' are less conveniently placed for coping and pasting. Typing on other peoples computers, which I must do on occasion results in a few minutes of awkwardness while I readjust. It is harder to type one-handed since I use a mapped keyboard layout, and must therefore remember the key locations rather than just looking.
Ultimately I am glad that I made the switch. There are some benefits to my typing abilities, and the inconveniences are not too great. I also take a certain amount of pride in it, like being an early adopter of metric units in a time when everyone is still using imperial.
Dvorak ergonomics statistics (Score:5, Interesting)
In other words, Dvorak gets you the same result with 39% less effort.
speed or health? (Score:3, Interesting)
I seem to recall that the point of dvorak was that it was faster, then that claim was subsequently discredited with force. When did an ergonomic benefit become its selling point? Has this claim of a physical health benefit been tested?
Re:Vim (Score:4, Interesting)
People who are touch-typists often are impressed with my typing speed. Everyone assumes I am a touch-typist. Then I invite them to watch my hands when I type.
I will never forget my typing class in high school; I could type faster than the instructor, but he would have to make me down because I didn't do it the right way.