Multiple Desktop Users on a Single Machine? 106
_Sharp'r_ asks: "I'm trying to design the least expensive way to make OpenOffice, email, and a web browser available to students in a new charter elementary school. In my past experience working with charitable computer donations, I can usually get three to four working computers out of five donated 'broken' computer systems, usually with plenty of monitors, keyboards and mice left over. I'd like to use one computer for multiple students by attaching multiple monitors, USB keyboards and mice. What drivers/OS versions support multiple local input devices and monitors that can be attached to a specific login session? Will this require virtualization? Is there a config I haven't found that you can use to assign these devices to specific ttys? Have you done this before?"
XFree-Local-multi-user-HOWTO (Score:5, Informative)
The HOWTO is a bit dated, but it is probably relevant enough to get you on the right track.
XRDP (Score:1)
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Try RTFA
XRDP still needs one box per user and that's what the submitter is trying to avoid.
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Er, is this a troll?
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If I'm understanding what you're advocating correctly, then it's a very problematic solution. For one thing, you'd somehow have to make two mouse cursors each controlled by two independant mice, you'd need to keep each cursor within it's own screen (it'd be a bit kooky to see someone elses' mouse keep popping into your side of the screen). Same deal with keyboards - you'd need to make sure anything typed would stay on the screen it was delegated to. There are solutions to this - but they are rare BECAUSE not many people would use this
I believe it's supported by X and the Kernel. Under /dev/input, you have a separate mouse device file for each mouse attached to the system. /dev/input/event* uniquely identify each HID device, meaning mouse, keyboard or joystick.
/etc/X11/xorg.conf file, you can create entries for each DEVICE (mouse) you want attached to the PC, and you can create entries for eachy DISPLAY (screen) you want. All you need are a few $30 PCIe video cards, and you can attach multiple monitors to the PC, each with the
In your
Just run multiple XWindows (Score:4, Insightful)
In the configuration file you specify where the input devices come from and how you graphics card is setup so it should be faily easy to get one instance of X pointing to one KVM combination and one to the other.
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A few links... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.google.com/search?q=multiseat+x [google.com]
http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~ctyler/ruby/ [senecac.on.ca]
http://blog.chris.tylers.info/index.php?/archives
http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/20051207
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http://userful.com/ [userful.com]
http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/multiuser/ [puc-rio.br]
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS4818008579.html [linuxdevices.com]
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http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/12/msg015 71.html [debian.org]
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2007/03/msg005 11.html [debian.org]
despite the titles of the emails, he's got it working and there is an xorg.conf and gdm.conf at the bottom.
I think he did a real how-to somewhere, but I can't find it.
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http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Multiterminal_with_ev dev [wikibooks.org]
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Multiseat_X [gentoo-wiki.com]
http://netpatia.blogspot.com/2006/09/multiseat-com puter-with-ubuntu.html [blogspot.com]
I did a multiseat setup using Ubuntu for Software Freedom Day last year and it worked quite well. The only way I was able to achieve hardware-accelerated 3D on _every_ head was to only use NVIDIA video adapters with the proprietary driver. (yes, I'm aware of the irony!) Unfortunately, none of the free (libre
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Yes, but is it worth it? (Score:3, Interesting)
If you use USB you can easily plug in as many keyboards and mice as you want, but how will you know in advance which is which?
Looking at older hardware you could use PS/2 for the keyboards but I don't know if you can use two of them.
Another way might be to use a really old machine as an X terminal, and use a more powerful machine as the server. Personally I would use NetBSD on the terminal, and a good linux distro as the server because you want to have a nicely integrated desktop. Which is not to say BSD can't do that. I run BSD on my servers and ubuntu on my workstations.
At the end of the day, if saving a bit of cheap hardware means spending a lot on labour, then its probably not worth it.
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Since USB is dinamicaly allocating resources (IDs), I don't think you can put the same type of devices on one computer and expect to be mapped always to the same session, so going with a different configuration like I said before is risky.
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You could also differentiate USB devices based on their vendor string, assuming you use different brands of USB devices.
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My wife and I shared a computer for about a year using Ubuntu 5.10. I had an Nvidia card for my screen, and a Radeon 9200 PCI for hers. I used PS/2 input, she used USB. It was nasty getting direct rendering going on the ATI as the Nvidia drivers overwrite some libraries. I eventually got it going by making a shadow tree of the
Labor of love (Score:5, Insightful)
--
Solar power installed at no charge: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-user
True (Score:1)
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Re:Yes, but is it worth it? (Score:4, Informative)
KERNEL="event*",BUS="usb",SYSFS{bInterfaceClass}=
KERNEL="event*",BUS="usb",SYSFS{bInterfaceClass}=
To persistently name the devices attached.
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Here's a HOWTO (Score:2)
It's a bit dated, and the patches to the X server sources will almost certainly have to be adjusted to work on the current sourcebase, but here's a HOWTO [puc-rio.br] from someone who did it.
It's the third hit on a Google search for "multiple keyboards X11", BTW.
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Obvious - Linux/X11 (Score:2)
I don't think there is even legal possibility to do it with standard customer Windows version since it specificaly prohibits multiplexing of input/output devices/user sessions in its EULA.
So you basically have just one route - Linux (or *BSD or other freenix) and X11.
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CPU speed is low priority - most users spend
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> to differentiate input devices so all mice and keyboards end up
> globbed as one input device.
You must have looked at it a long time ago. No patching is needed. It is just a simple matter of configuring Xorg to use different input/video devices for different screens. I am talking about X here. Regarding linux console (text one) you are right.
http://linuxgazette.net/124/smith.html [linuxgazette.net]
Here's one guy who built a six seat computer. (Score:3, Informative)
Not all good news though, seems it was a bit unstable. Still, it's a start.
Hardware solution? (Score:1)
Re:Hardware solution? (Score:4, Informative)
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So, buyer beware. When done poorly, these solutions are worse than useless -- which makes the fact that they're f
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I have their Betwin drivers, and in 9 classrooms I turned 1 system into 4 stations, saved the school about $16,000, and didn't have to worry about blowing the circuit breakers.
One computer, many users (Score:4, Informative)
Not likely with Windows (Score:4, Interesting)
So, an Microsoft OS is most likely out of the question for what you want to do.
Dan East
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Anyway, this is how it can work with thin clients. I don't know if it's possible to get several separate mouse cursors in one client session, never tried that.
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Not currently doable in Windows AFAIK.
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this doesn't answer your question (Score:4, Informative)
Have you looked at Linux Terminal Server Project [ltsp.org]? Any old junk makes an adequate client, memory requirements are something like 64MB.
There's an there's an active LTSP community, including guys use it in schools: www.k12ltsp.org [k12ltsp.org].
Edubuntu... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think so... (Score:5, Informative)
Are you sure about that? AFAIK, what Edubuntu provides is LTSP, which allows you to run one machine with a bunch of thin clients attached to it, but each of the thin clients requires another PC. That's not the same as attaching multiple monitors and keyboards directly to one computer.
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Server / Thin client (Score:4, Insightful)
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Or better yet:
How about do a server with thin clients AND have thin clients that have multiple keyboard/mouse/monitors.
Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP) (Score:4, Informative)
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Userful (Score:4, Informative)
I used this to set up 8 workstations (virtual art galleries, actually) out of two machines for a tattoo shop across town. I've followed some of the resources already linked on this topic and was never able to get such a setup working, but this software did it just fine. All you need are some dual-head video cards and USB hubs.
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I know we've done other kinds of deployments [userful.com] into schools, libraries, Internet Cafes and other places, but the tattoo shop is new to me.
Also, the dual-head video cards aren't a strict requirement. As long as you can get it onto the bus, the majority of ATI and nvidia cards with 1-4 heads will work fine.
OP: Depending on what your requirements are, you may find interest in the basic Desktop Multiplier [userful.com] which provides multiple workstations from each PC, DiscoverStation [userful.com] which includes Desktop Multiplie
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I do not actually know the X protocol, or anything about X, really. Ever tried to read that thing? Maybe it's time to kill it bunches.
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hardware multi-terminal for linux (Score:1)
for them:
www.ncomputing.com
They offer a solution that sounds like what you want.
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XTerms (Score:2)
Or something like:
http://www.linuxtoys.org/multiseat/multiseat.html [linuxtoys.org]
6 monitors, keyboards, mice, one tower.
XTerminals -- Linux thin clients! (Score:2)
I think now you'd want boot from flash and DHCP. The minicomp would be a small box like a SohO router with SVGA out (only 2D required), 10/100baseT or wireless, a wall-wart for power, and USB or PS/2 for kbd/mse. Very tidy, very neat and very cheap. Add monitor, kbd, mouse an
This should be exactly what you're looking for. (Score:2, Informative)
Allow up to 7 people to use a single Windows PC simultaneously.
Seems to work in linux too... (Score:3, Insightful)
Ugh. (Score:2)
Turn what's left of the better machines into an array of X servers.
What about Sun Rays ?? (Score:1)
Maybe use some of them as servers instead? (Score:2)
Once you've factored in the cost of your time, power consumption and (un)reliability maybe a more cost effective approach might be to consider donated kit for discrete server functions and buy one or more newer faster desktops to handle the multiple desktops? Maybe even do up the donated kit to sell on for "Internet access and email only" devi
On a similar note... (Score:1)
Available out-of-box (Score:2)
How I did it (Score:3, Informative)
There are a lot of different ways to do this under Linux; someone has already posted several links to some resources. The easiest way I found, and the way I've been running my two-seat, single-machine setup at home for about a year, is simply using the capabilities of newer versions of X Windows as described on Chris Tyler's blog [tylers.info] (included in those links earlier).
All of the other methods I've seen require non-standard kernel modules or non-standard X servers, etc. This way uses standard software, and I think it should work for most modern distributions (I'm using Gentoo).
What you need hardware-wise:
The software setup is described fairly well in Chris Tyler's blogs (don't skip the comments - there are useful tips from others in there, and on this followup page [tylers.info]), but here's the basic idea: You run two separate X instances, each with a different ServerLayout section in the config file. They obviously need to point to different video cards (and I found that using the "SingleCard [google.com]" option was necessary to get both to work), and you also need to separate the input devices between the two. The best way to do this that I know of (again, avoiding odd kernel modules or other software) is evdev. It's somewhat complicated, but it lets you specify input devices based on where they are plugged in or their specific model numbers, etc. It's fairly flexible.
Once you have two separate X instances up and running, it's a fairly simple matter to get gdm (and I assume most other *dm applications) to launch both automatically with independent login screens.
Good luck!
LTSP? (Score:1)
http://www.k12ltsp.org/ [k12ltsp.org]
Linux works for two consoles (Score:2)
But the main questions remains: what do you gain? You still need two keyboards, two mice, two screens, two graphics car
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Well, okay, I'm not sure how that works with jvm. But with standalone binaries, it's true; with shared libraries, it's true.
I've done it successfully (Score:1)
The first thing you need to do is let X know about your keyboards and mice. Then create multiple layouts (all this done in xorg.conf). Then edit your login manager config file (works for both kdm and gdm) so that it starts multiple instances of itself using the spec
Linux and Xorg (Score:1)
Install Ubuntu + SRSS (Score:1)
Simple answer is Groovix (Score:2)
For more info, check this page: http://groovix.com/slim.html [groovix.com] which explains how they support up to 10 seats (monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers) per computer.
There's an article about Groovix being used in Maryland libraries here: ht [linux.com]
XTENDA (Score:1)
1. Eliminate need for small switches in the classrooms.
2. Only maintain one computer.
3. Upgrades will be easier.
We still have some testing to do, but the preliminary stuff is very promising.
For an off the shelf solution... (Score:1)
You can install this PCI card and have up to 4 users on a single Windows PC at the same time. Install 2 cards and have up to 7 users.
One card and 3 extenders cost less than $225.
M$ Liability? (Score:2)
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Solar power with maintenance included: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-user
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I have set this up and it works great (Score:2, Informative)
http://research.edm.uhasselt.be/~jori/page/index.p hp?n=Misc.DualSeatX [uhasselt.be]
I recommend the Xgl method for the following reasons:
* free (GPL)
* lets you use both heads of dual-head cards (that's what I'm doing.. I have just one video card)
* allows you to use graphics acceleration (I've played opengl games on one screen while my wife was surfing on the other)
* seems stable
* works with your existing xorg / xgl binaries and kernel (no recompiling of these apps)
The instructions on the page ar
I used LTSP, but still searching (Score:1)
LTSP vs Multi-Head (Score:1)
I looked into an X terminal solution but the performance was not good enough. We want to run kids educational game
Recently done this too (Score:2, Informative)
mulitple desktops on single computer (Score:1)
I've gotten close (Score:2)
I use a 4-Seat system daily (Score:2)