The State of Open Source 3D Modeling 267
gmueckl writes "Since Blender was released as open source in 2002, it has basically owned the open source 3D modeling scene. Its development has seen a massive push by both the community and supporting organizations. However, the program has been showing its age all along and efforts to improve on it have either been blocked or have failed in the past (note the dates). Authors of new modules are forced to jump through hoops to get their work glued onto the basic core, which still dates from the early 90s and has gone almost unchanged since. There are many other active projects out there like Art of illusion, K-3D, and Moonlight|3D. Each of them offers a modern, much saner, more coherent, and more powerful basic architecture and could match Blender in a couple of months' time with some extra manpower. So how come these projects don't get the level of support they deserve? How come developers are still willing to put up with such an arcane code base?"
It's there, and it works (Score:5, Insightful)
As much as people may hate Blender, the main advantage of the program is that it is there, and that most things work. Some parts are even great. Personally I happen to like the poly-workflow, which is very fast. The main problem with blender for most users is that it takes a while to learn, but once it's learnt, it has a very effective workflow.
I think that the OP is very optimistic when he sais that it takes only a few months to port everything (and the kitchensink) to another app, that is just impossible, even with open code.
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:3, Interesting)
If you look at even commercial software such as Maya or 3ds max there is essentially very little difference other than the interface and i find 3ds max interface perplexing confused and illogical (looks like some one ate to many widgets and threw-up) blender was a semi steep learning curve but once you have the basics a bit guesswork you can make some alright looking models even without any experience.
But then again i like Povray better than any other 3d stuff out there.
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:2)
Designing machine parts however...
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:3, Insightful)
It does sound like some Pollyanna that either hasn't coded or hasn't tried coding 3D software. 3D programming on that level is HARD.
Heck, I even tried making a 2D CAD program once. The basic math was relatively easy but the UI and object database handling is a bitch. 3D is is a lot worse in many respects, the main advantage that 3D has is that it's more glamorous but I don't know if that makes up for the difficulty.
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:5, Insightful)
Pretty much every developer that has joined Blender has spent some time looking over the codebases of the other opensource 3D applications. Your claim of a month is absolutely ridiculous - even a year would be an insane time line. At a minimum you are looking at a requiring a similar sized developer base as Blender at least 3 years of full time development before any of the other 3D apps can even come close to Blenders functionality as of right now.
Here is a very brief list of what you need to approach the basic functionality that Blender has
Modeling tools - asside from Blender the only half reasonable polygon modeling tool available is Wings3D(which is written in Erlang). In addition to a strong core of standard polygon modeling tools Blender also has sculpt modeling, curve modeling, metaball modeling, NURBS, etc.
UV Unwrapping - wings has basic UV unwrapping - Blenders are considered one of the best implementations in the 3D industry. As far as I'm aware all of the apps you mention have at best very basic tools.
Texturing - Blender has full node based materials and texturing; Blender has 3D painting and texturing tools. To my knowledge none of the apps you propose have either of those features.
Basic animation - you need good rigging and skinning tools for character animation. You need cage deformation, hooks, a driver system etc. I think AOI has okay rigging but other than that?
Simulation - physics, particles, fluids, crowds, hair. Presumably some of the apps you list have very basic collision integrated? Some also might have very basic particles. The difference between where they are at, and where they would need to be to match Blenders current capabilities is tremendous.
Compositing - not crucial for a 3D application to have - but this is a powerful feature of Blender having an integrated compositor in its rendering pipeline.
Rendering - do any of the projects you list have multipass rendering even?
Scripting - Blenders API has been refactored a few times, this has caused some pain among scripters, but the API has been steadily maturing and is quite large and powerful.
Exporters and Importers - how many and how mature are exporters for any of your suggested programs? A fairly complete and mature exporter or importer can in itself represent numerous man years of effort.
Sequencer - again not crucial to meet the definition of a standard 3D animation suite - but again a powerful feature that is part of Blender.
Logic nodes and game engine - yet another feature that wouldn't be a strict requirement to become a reasonable competitor in the 3D animation suite space, but another tool that is an important part of Blender for part of our user base.
I get the impression that you have absolutely no idea how much time and effort it would take to become a serious competitor as a 3D animation suite. No disrespect but Moonlight 3D isn't even 1% of the way there, and yet in your estimation it would only take a month to 'catch up'.
LetterRip
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:3, Insightful)
And may I say: The sequencer is one of the BEST parts of blender. Nothing beats whipping up a short presentation movie with the blender sequencer. It is quite intuitive for a blender user, since it uses the same key and mouse mappings. We use it all the time when we want to stitch together some clips.
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:3, Interesting)
Then, I tried Blender. Using it caused almost physical discomfort. I thought the interface was ugly, alien and counter-intuitive. After a while I became productive with Blender, but I still dislike it. And everything that I did learn I'm sure I have forgotten by now, while I could find my way back into 3dsmax with little trouble - even though I haven't used it for a long time now.
The thing is, whatever you learn first conditions your brain to a certain way of working. Everything else after that is hard(er).
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:3, Insightful)
Lack of ngons is a serious workflow deficiency and something that forces one to kludge around when building models. No point stating quad-only models are better anyway, supporting ngons isn't about that. Having ngons while you model speeds up the workflow when you don't have to work around them and can leave them in temporarily.
Apparently work is done to introduce a new mesh type and tools that support ngons. Just pointing out that right now blender's workflow is rather restricting.
Re:It's there, and it works (Score:4, Insightful)
People like to bitch about the interface -- yes, it is confusing at first. But you have to use it for more than a few hours. Do the blender tutorial. After playing with blender, I took a class in 3dsmax -- seriously, once you learn the keystrokes for blender, you never want to go back. In this, it's comparable to vi or emacs.
Most likely, the OP got his nose bent out of joint because they wouldn't switch over to XML, so he decided to slander the project on slashdot.
Rewriting (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Rewriting (Score:2)
Re:Rewriting (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Rewriting (Score:5, Insightful)
In what manner?
'Blender still suffers from that'
In what way does blender suffer?
'have a solid design which is able to grow'
In what way are the designs solid? What about the design of blender makes it less solid? Specifically what aspect of blender is unable to grow and what is the difference in these other applications that makes them able to grow?
'applications like Maya, Softimage and Houdini have demonstrated that'
In what manner?
'Comparing blender to all of those on a design level makes blender stand out as the toy.'
In what fashion?
Do you have any constructive criticism or is this entire post just a troll? Can you name any specific features, design constructs, or methods that are actually superior in these applications or do you just prefer in the interface in the commercial applications you learned in?
Re:Rewriting (Score:4, Interesting)
Blender code was/is a mess. K-3D++ (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you actually looked at blender's code? I haven't seen it in about 18 months, but when I did look through it, interested in adding a feature, it turned out to be a complete mess. I haven't read the post of the person you're replying to, but (s)he might have said "It started to outgrow itself", because it's obvious that the code has had many things tacked on wherever it works, rather than through a cyclic (re)design-document-implement-test-release process.
For instance, the feature I was planning to add was video codec support for input (sequencer, textures, etc.) and output (sequencer, rendering). Now, importing/saving video is essentially a process of loading and saving frames, and there were other video APIs already used in blender on other platforms, such as quicktime on OS X, and directshow (or whatever it's actually using) on Windows. In well-designed code, it would basically be a matter of finding the video modules, copying one, cutting out the quicktime/dshow stuff from the video setup/save frame/load frame methods, and implementing the equivalent methods using the gstreamer API instead. Obviously, it's never going to be quite THAT simple, but it can and should be close.
I looked into the code for doing this, and it was a total mess: the code to output one video format was spread over many files, and the UI stuff (output file type selection, etc.) was spread over some more.
The UI stuff should have been easy, too. If you look at the plugin system of something like 3D Studio Max (or, indeed, K-3D), it's obvious that plugins can create their own "property pages", which just hook into the interface, presenting any new options that plugin might want to offer the user. In blender, I knew this wasn't the case (as plugins tended to have horrible, inconsistent UIs). That was understandable though, as work was actively going on to improve the UI stuff. Note that this still hasn't completed, however: blender 5 is going to work on this again, after blender 3 was supposed to be focused on sorting it out! I've no doubt that the blender coders work hard -- some of the improvements they make in short turnaround times is amazing. BUT, this either means that the code is a mess because things like UI API improvements take so long, or that the code is a mess because lots of things are done quickly without long-term design considerations.
Speaking architecturally, I, for one, would be very happy to see K-3D win out over blender. For the moment though, blender has the huge advantage --- actually being nice to model in (at least up to a certain complexity level, and if you don't need procedural modelling too much). Everything else though... plugin support, material editing, rendering quality, distributed rendering support, video IO, integration with other apps, basic interface usability and discoverability, is seriously hampered by the code, imho.
Re:Rewriting (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sorry sir but you seriously mistaken,
"
Blender is a design that was never intended to grow into what it is now. Remember that it was an inhouse developement of an animation studio so the whole application was designed to get the job done that was at hand."
Perhaps you should read about Blenders actual history?
http://www.blender.org/blenderorg/blender-foundat
Blender was a rewrite of the inhouse design tool of neo-geo. The design of the rewrite was very forward looking. There were a few design errors, one such design error due to Blender being used inhouse is that the input design wasn't made easily customizable. This error is one that we are going to correct with Blender 2.50.
"But when the program itself was commercialized it started to outgrow itself. This was never anticipated and Blender still suffers from that."
It had been anticipated that Blender was to be commercialized. The technological and design foundations of Blender are pretty impressive. Blender has had some issues (all but a small handful of which have been addressed), but not anticipating commercialization is not one of them.
"The other applications that I pointed out have a solid design which is able to grow. Commercial applications like Maya, Softimage and Houdini have demonstrated that. Comparing blender to all of those on a design level makes blender stand out as the toy."
I suspect that you have close to zero knowledge about the designs of XSI, Maya, or Houdini similar to your close to zero knowledge of Blenders design.
Blender has been able to sustain absolutely ridiculous growth rates in its code base and functionality. Professional 3D artists find the pace of development eye popping/jaw dropping.
LetterRip
Re:Rewriting (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Rewriting (Score:3, Insightful)
Showing age? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's earned a fluid simulator. Particle effects have been dramatically improved, yafray integration was a huge improvement for rendering, materials can now be created with a node based system.. the list goes on and on. The feature enhancements that went into the latest point release is worth an essay all on their own:
http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/b
Blender stays afloat because it's seeing active development and is already a mature platform. People are used to the interface (one that newbies hate, but veterans fall in love with), and it runs on all three of the major operating systems.
I don't think an aging codebase is a critical flaw. Too often people think redesigning the wheel is a panacea for repairing a kludgy system, without realizing that all code projects fall prey to this at some point in their life. Sure we could rewrite Blender.. but to what end? It'd take another 5 years to get where we are now.
Re:Showing age? (Score:2)
Are you sure you don't mean "one that only the few people who are able to love it ever use for long enough to become veterans"?
Re:Showing age? (Score:2)
Level of support (Score:5, Funny)
Because the issue hasn't been posted to the front page of
Re:Level of support (Score:2, Funny)
Blender changes over time (Score:5, Insightful)
There have been huge changes to Blender over time. For example, the physics engine in the game engine was replaced with a much better one. The original poster is apparently wound up about some XML import/export thing, which is minor. You can write Blender import/export filters in Python, and many such filters exist.
Blender has some problems, but converting its files to an XML format isn't one of them.
Re:Blender changes over time (Score:5, Informative)
Another problem is Blenders old user interface code. It dates back quite some time and it surely has been updated time and again. But because it is a library that does everything by itself on top of OpenGL and thin wrappers around the actual windowing system it did not get proper support for multiple screens yet although this has been called for some time now. User interface translations are a similar topic which has been tried time and again and still isn't fully accomplished. Back in the days when Blender ran on SGI workstations the decision for an own UI toolkit made sense. But times change.
Re:Blender changes over time (Score:3, Informative)
Then you're probably happy to hear, or already aware, that the UI/event part of blender is slated for rewrite.
blender is here to stay. (Score:3, Interesting)
blender already has quite a lot of features, not to mention game engine and other tools.
plug the fact that it's light weight, fast and cross platform. (while maintaining the same UI everywhere.)
blender may have some old cruft every here and there.
but it doesn't really bother me.
so what do these are "not yet here" apps offer me?
Re:blender is here to stay. (Score:2)
Actually working on 64-bit platforms is nice. Reference [blender.org]
Also, I think it's a personal problem, but I haven't been able to get Blender to even work on my system. All the controls show up, but the actual modelling area is blank. No grid, no objects, just dull gray nothing. And it seg faults when I try to add an object. Maybe it's just a precaution since I wouldn't be able to save correctly anyway.
Personally I like K-3D better, although I haven't been able to configure it to use 3Delight correctly.
Re:blender is here to stay. (Score:4, Informative)
Blender worked on 64 bit platforms, but it wasn't recommended since the output of the files wasn't guaranteed to be portable between 32 and 64 bit versions of Blender. For 2.44 being 64 bit clean again (it was for the majority of its history) was one of the goals.
"Also, I think it's a personal problem, but I haven't been able to get Blender to even work on my system."
Sounds like a bad opengl driver, you can try upgrading or downgrading your driver; turning down hardware accelleration; and turning off antialiasing - those tend to fix 99% of the common issues.
LetterRip
Re:blender is here to stay. (Score:2)
Ive been a fan of it since back when you still had to buy a license. ( and yes, i did buy one even though you could get one in 20 seconds they deserved the donation )
Doesn't matter (Score:3, Insightful)
But it doesn't matter anyway. Basically, the hype and bullshit surrounding the 3d modeling app market is already so saturated and misinformed, it makes a SNES vs. Genesis debate in the cafeteria in the 6th grade look like a congressional fact finding comittee. Almost anyone involved in 3d modeling as a hobby develops their own ideas about what is good and what is bad for their way of working. Most of the time, Open Source modeling apps fall in the "bad" column.
It's obvious (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually it is the Vi of the 3D Modeling world; it has small footprint and a marginally steep learning curve, but when you get it (in three or so weeks) you will be amazed at what you can accomplish with relatively little effort.
Re:It's obvious (Score:2)
Re:It's obvious (Score:3, Informative)
I know that Blender's capabilities blows POV-Ray's out of the water, but I couldn't do simply and easy stuff easily with Blender that I can with POV-Ray. Every so often I'll spend a weekend with Blender and make some incremental progress in my understanding of how it works for still scenes, but I haven't even gotten near the animation tools.
Perhaps Blender is easy to pick up for those who are already familiar with similar professional level tools, but that does not describe the entire (or even the important part) of the learning curve for the rest of us.
you question isn't so much a question... (Score:4, Insightful)
Blender probably "owns" the open source 3D graphical modeling scene because it's the most complete, full fledged, and the most mature of all the applications out there, with the exception of POVray. aside from blender(combined with yafray), the only other apps i use(and would consider recommending) would be wings3d(currently testing sunflow). typically i'll start with wings, import into blender, and use yafray for rendering. this combo seems to work well, wings is superior to blender in certain types of modelling. i don't think the other apps you mentioned play well with other apps, maybe that's the problem...
i've tried many of the OSS 3D apps out there(including AOI, have not tried k3d or moonlight thou) and the problem was often that the user interface was clumsy, the code was only available on one platform(i.e. moray), or the project was not mature enough for real work.
blender is'nt the easiest 3d app to work with, but then again 3d modelling in and of itself is not an easy task. since this discussion is about 3d modellers, it's important that an artist is able to navigate, switch tools, and move around an application in as smooth and fluid like as possible. it might seem like an oxymoron, but it is possible to do this in wings and blender(i never thought it would be). blender especially is a steep curve application, but once you get to know the most basic commands of edge/vector/face selection, creation and editing of primitives and vertices, things start moving quite well. there is a lot of thought that went into both blender and wings UI to make them easy to use. can you say that about k3d/aoi/moonlight?
you complain about the underlying architecture, but it's not the code that a user is interfacing with, and the interface is what is driving a highly graphical app like blender. it helps when architecture and UI are both well conceived.
does that answer your question(s)?
Re:you question isn't so much a question... (Score:2)
Re:you question isn't so much a question... (Score:2)
Re:you question isn't so much a question... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:you question isn't so much a question... (Score:3)
Wings3d is written in Erlang (Score:2)
Re:Wings3d is written in Erlang (Score:2)
Yes. Does it matter?
It's a pain. (Score:3, Insightful)
But the problem is that it's just barely good enough - such that developers simply don't feel it worth the (not inconsiderable) effort to do something truly world-class to replace it. Artists eventually learn it's weirdnesses.
If blender mysteriously vanished overnight, we'd be in a terrible state for the next year - but what would emerge as a result would be a hundred times better.
Tricky.
Re:It's a pain. (Score:5, Informative)
Cheers
Re:It's a pain. (Score:2)
One of blender's shortcomings is that there are a number of ways to model with it and the most efficient, I have found, is not the standard "extrude it from a box", and only a few tutorials cover the more different methods (like drawing outlines as a 2d plane and moving them into their 3d positions).
Judging by the fact you don't seem to know the interface, I can't help but think you are just parroting things you heard form annoyed people on other points. Maybe their code was rejected because it was bad, broke things higher up, didn't cover everything the current code does, etc. Maybe the scripts brake because they were badly programmed.
While I have never tried to reprogram it's core, I can say I have used scripts, not updated, across many versions.
Re:It's a pain. (Score:2)
As for tutorials, if you're looking for modeling tutorials, look at tutorials written for other apps. The one thing about modeling tutorials is that they can basically apply to any application, despite being written for a different one. The tool names may be different, but the concepts are the same. There's MANY non "extrude from box" tutorials out there.
Re:It's a pain. (Score:3, Interesting)
Same can be said for 3DSMAX. Extremely powerful because it's evolved, but with a terrible, archaic user interface that newcomers like VUE leave for dead. Same for Poser and DAZ.
Being first to market is a huge advantage, but in time, you're left lugging a dinosaur around while sleek, warm blooded animals breed and overrun you. Say... is that snow?
What about Sauerbraten? (Score:2)
How about the state of 3D Parametric Modelling? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How about the state of 3D Parametric Modelling? (Score:3, Informative)
K-3D **is** parametric (Score:3, Informative)
p.s.: 3DS Max (at least) and Maya (I think) are also parametric -- it's not just Pro/E etc. Also, don't forget that high-level CAD apps are available as Open Source for Linux, if not as Free Software.
Re:How about the state of 3D Parametric Modelling? (Score:3, Funny)
Oh sure. Give us a sec to drop everything and get right on that.
Is this one of those "Pick Two" lists?
Very True (Score:2, Informative)
could match in a couple of months' time? (Score:5, Insightful)
Developers are willing to put up with the arcane code base because (1) it works, (2) it's Good Enough, which means anything newer has to overcome the training / usability barriers associated with switching, and (3) the newer options are not unambiguously "better". Remember: if app Bar (Blender) is already the standard, app Foo (these alternatives) not only has to be better for someone just starting, but also has to be better for an experienced user of Bar.
re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Just do the modeling with Wings 3D, or whatever you happen to like, and do the rest with Blender. It's a very capable piece of software.
And many artists use many applications to do their work, for example, they could use Modo for modeling, Lightwave for rendering, etc. So it would be perfectly normal if you use Wings for the modeling, some other application for animation, Blender for rendering, etc. This way, you are using the parts you think are better, or you are more comfortable with, from each application.
Re: (Score:4, Informative)
You'll rarely, if ever, find a studio using one program. Certainely none of the bigger ones, and I don't even know of any smaller studios that rely on one piece of software for all their needs. For the hobbyist though, this isn't always a viable option due to the costs associated with some of the software.
Modeling especially, seems to be segmented. Model a base mesh in modo/Silo, bring it into ZBrush/Mudbox for sculpting, rebuilding topology in modo or Silo again, and then bringing it all together into Maya/XSI/3DS/LW/etc.
If you want to learn Blender.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:If you want to learn Blender.. (Score:2, Interesting)
On another note, Blender has five Google Summer of Code projects this year. Maybe those who want to develop for the competing packages should try that avenue.
There's hope for Inkscape (Score:3, Informative)
My daughter just attended a seminar where the UI expert posited the three Es. Ease of use, ease of remembering and something else that translated as power. The way the presenter described it, you couldn't have all three. Bullroar. A good program is one that I can use intuitively. If I am going to use the program a lot, there are shortcuts available. For instance, my students can get something to work with menus and the mouse. I can do the same thing two or three times as fast from the keyboard. I guess the thing is that a decent program has more than one possible UI.
Wings 3D (Score:2, Interesting)
If you want a nice natural intuitive modeler, look no further than Wings 3d:
Wings3D [wings3d.com]
It has some strange dependencies, but you might be able to find a precompiled version for your platform. (It's in Gentoo's portage for example).
choice (Score:2)
Does anyone actually use Blender? (Score:2)
He is a graphics designer by trade and has Windows at home (he hates Macs, but has to deal with them, because every single designer shop in Germany uses them). He wanted to build something in 3D and tried to install the Windows version. It wouldn't even install due to some Python related problem (Python seems to be for the plugins, but why would it break the basic install anyways?). I tried to help him over the phone and he installed different versions of Python to no avail.
Then I advised him to try the previous version and it didn't work either. There was very little documentation on the web. He uses Windows XP and has nothing out of the ordinary running and uses standard hardware.
I guess not many people tried even installing the Windows version much less use it.
Good thing I use Debian. For most important stuff I need there are responsible maintainers that check the packages bevore uploading and respond to bug reports...
Module Authors (Score:2)
FragMotion (Score:2, Redundant)
Description
fragMOTION is a powerful 3D modeller specifically intended for the creation and animation of characters. fragMOTION is intuitive and easy to use and contains many features that are only found in top of the line modellers. And if that's not enough for you, the event driven scripting system makes it a breeze for you to add your own features.
Notable Features
* Load and edit multiple motions in the same workspace.
* Merge any supported model file and extract only the desired portions of that file.
* Paint textures directly on the surface of a model.
* No set limit to the number of faces contained in a model.
* Create sprite images from 3D content.
* Keyframe editor that allows you to copy, paste and delete keyframes with ease.
* Animate your character using Inverse Kinematics.
* Support for up to 4 weighting values per vertex.
* Selective subdivision of faces.
* Unwrap arbitrary geometry into a plane and save the image into a texture.
* View attached objects such as weapons and equipment.
* Create your own plugins using LUA script or C++.
* Customizable user interface allows you to edit the menus and toolbar. You can even create your own menu items or toolbuttons to run user-defined scripts.
* Convenient splitter window allows you to customize the layout of your workspace.
* Keyboard shortcuts that allow you to use tools without constantly switching modes.
* Set background images into the viewer as a frame of reference.
* Create user-defined classes with their own appearance, properties, methods and events.
* Modify existing classes by adding user-defined properties, methods or events.
* Create skeletons with up to 255 bones.
* Full undo/redo.
* And many more...
FragMotion is windows-only. (Score:2)
Why is it always just the UI? (Score:4, Informative)
This is to all those people who claim that you just have to learn to use Blenders user interface: My question really was initially not that much about the user interface, but the user interface really is at the core of the problem, but not in the way you probably expect.
The alternative applications that I have pointed out are really designed for a job. They adhere to basic MVC patterns and whatever else you would expect from such a big application. These patterns really are a big advantage when it comes down to coding stuff. Blender on the other hand has a "user interface driven design", as Ton once said. And this term fits well: the user interface - and I almost literally mean the buttons on screen and whatever event handling that is attached to it - are the only glue that keeps everything together. So when you talk about the user interface you also talk about Blender's internals. There is not much of an abstraction between the user interface and the data that is manipulated. So the bottom line is that any change to Blender's user interface is a change to Blender's design.
Re:Why is it always just the UI? (Score:4, Informative)
Specialized subjects are harder for OS projects (Score:2)
In fact, if you look at it, there are quite a few domain-specific softwares that are lagging behind when compared to their proprietary counterparts.
Cooperation in some open source domains might also lag behind because of the lack of imagination of many OS tools. Look at the proprietary tools for Java, for instance and what they can achieve in terms of colaboration. I'm not a Java programmer, but to my knowledge there isn't anything like that in the OS world.
Licenses might have have something to do with it, also. I don't see why one specialist would want to contribute to another specialist's project, when there's even the possibility that this one releases the other's code contribution under a dual license (one proprietary, the other GPL). The solution is to reinvent the wheel and roll your own.
Professional roots (Score:3, Informative)
Most everyone else is coming from a hobbiest viewpoint. and are most always doomed to stay there, if they manage to survive at all.
Re:Professional roots (Score:2)
Re:Professional roots (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Professional roots (Score:2, Informative)
NeoGeo ( in the Netherlands ) was ( still is? ) a PR firm, that originally wrote and used blender.
NaN was created as a separate entity when blender was released to the world to manage the operations and eventual 'opening of Blender.
Blender will remain on top... (Score:5, Informative)
I want to check it out so I go to the never-changing site of AoI and look at the gallery. Well, maybe they keep their best stuff somewhere else....That stuff has been there forever.
Next I go to K-3D, fondly remembering the build-in tutorials in the 'old' K-3D, the one before the never-ending refactor. Site doesn't load.
Head over to Moonlight3D. Hey, I remember that from about 10 year ago! Sad story: guys write Moonlight (closed source) Later they come up with Moonlight Atelier. Loads better but still closed source. (Linuxgraphics.fr had a nice Moonlight section) They open source the old code base, lose interest in Atelier and that's it. End of story. OK, so some guys decide to try to revive the old codebase, did some hacks and changes. Project died. This seems to be the legacy. Go look at news. Hey! Who's that posting there? It's our old friend gmueckl! So the anti-Blender tirade looks like a serious bout of jealousy to me...
If that is the competition Blender has, I suspect it'll be on top for quite a bit longer.... Just compare development pace, feature set, support (2 modern Blender books with a third one on order), roadmap.
Just Buy Maya (Score:2)
OpenSceneGraph and niches (Score:2)
"The OpenSceneGraph is an open source high performance 3D graphics toolkit, used by application developers in fields such as visual simulation, games, virtual reality, scientific visualization and modelling. Written entirely in Standard C++ and OpenGL it runs on all Windows platforms, OSX, GNU/Linux, IRIX, Solaris, HP-Ux, AIX and FreeBSD operating systems."
The submitter is a troll (Score:5, Insightful)
Blender has weedy parts in its codebase, everyone knows that. Any programm this complex and mature has those. But they are being replaced fast and thouroughly by a thriving core team lead by the founder of Blender. Blender runs out of the box on 7 plattforms and has a featureset that closely competes with current topline commercial tools. Try to catch up on that alone 'in a few months' Mr. Smartass. Blender is responisble for the recent price drops in the 3D tool industry alone and when it eventually fully supports Renderman yet some toolmakers are going to have to redo their businessmodel big time.
The usual UI bickering is bogus aswell. Apart from being just as hard to learn as any tool of same capabilities, blenders UI has been comletely OpenGL accelerated from the begining - one of the things it's unique in iirc. Blender's learning curve is steep, as with any high-end 3D tool without a stack of books. But with the amount of material and books available on the web for free nowadays makes this learning curve not nearly as hard as it was 5 years ago. The featureset is breathtaking and has commercial providers such as Newtek struggling to catch up in some areas (notice the recent addition of an improrved node editor to Lightwave 9 - nothing but a response to Blenders node editor). Sidenote: I own a professional licence of LW 8, a commercial licence of Blender (from the NaN days) *and* use Blender since back in the days of 1.8. I haven't updated to LW 9 for the very reason that Blender 2.43, a few little things aside, offers everything professional 3D needs. And then some - an full-blown integrated compositor for instance.
Blender is as mature and developed as any open source project could wish for. As *any* software project could wish for actually. Features and improvement are being added on a regular basis and it's fully backwards compliant with any blender file, and it's professional roots not only show but have become more and more visible.
Bottom line: The submitter of the above article either doesn't know what he is talking about or is a troll. Or both.
Starting from scratch almost always wrong (Score:2)
Requiring users to learn a new UI and new ways of doing things, not to mention each having a long list of missing functionality, will alienate your userbase and reduce funding.
Likely the codebase appears more complex to you than it is because you are inexperienced with it.
If the issue is the complexity of the plugin interface, instead of discarding thousands of man hours of value, you should be working toward refactoring around a modern, less complex plugin interface.
what about avoCADo 3D CAD? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It would help even more... (Score:3, Informative)
I looked at K3D for a bit...one of the most awesome features I saw was the record/playback used for tutorials. The K3D interface, at the time, also needed some work. However, over the last couple of years, I see it has come quite a ways as well. I think there's room for both- they both use different approaches, and will appeal to different kinds of users. K3D needs something to boost its profile - Blender had the Orange project, as well is the rich history that went with going commercial, and then eventually being released as an open-source project after collecting donations from users over a very short period of time.
Blender also had quite the community - where's the K3D community? Where is that being nurtured/grown?
Re:It would help even more... (Score:2)
From what I can see this question is posted by someone who wants to hijack the Blender community and have it adopt one of these other projects instead. Unfortunately, so far his posts have been vague and he hasn't mentioned one specific design aspect that is superior in these projects. Until he does it just sounds like he thinks everyone should make programs work the way he likes them.
Re:Blender and stupid hot keys (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Blender and stupid hot keys (Score:5, Insightful)
**I'd like to see a freeware/OSS project take the approach Luxology is taking with modo. First, they baked out the modeler end of the app in the first release. Then in the second major release we got a render engine and texturing/painting tools (and of course refinements and improvements to the modeling end of things). Presumably, in the third major release we'll get animation (and other improvements to modeling and texturing and rendering). I personally like this approach because instead of stretching yourself too thin focusing on everything at once, you start off by getting the basics of each "component" right. This seems to be a result of their Nexus core, which from what I gather is a developmental platform, where they can "bake" out various versions of the program.
Re:Blender and graphics tablets. (Score:3, Interesting)
As far as multiple monitors, I generally work almost exclusively on a single widescreen monitor, sometimes moving preview render windows over to the secondary monitor. Modeling IMO benefits more from a single, larger monitor than two seperate displays - especially when I can get rid of tool tabs (by using hotkeys) and enlarge the 3D viewport.
Re:Blender and stupid hot keys (Score:2)
yeah it's a hurdle, but if you want to be good at anything, you need to clear a few hurdles.
why is it flawed? because it takes effort to learn? come on...
Re:Blender and stupid hot keys (Score:2)
yeah it's a hurdle, but if you want to be good at anything, you need to clear a few hurdles.
why is it flawed? because it takes effort to learn? come on...
Re:Blender and stupid hot keys (Score:2)
Re:Blender and stupid hot keys (Score:2)
When I first started 3D, I was using trueSpace, and I *NEVER* used shortcuts the entire time I used it (except the standard save, open, etc keys). It took me forever to do the simplest things, and I never really progressed as an artist. I think it's because I was too busy fidgeting with the UI to do what I wanted. As soon as I moved to LW, I started using keyboard shortcuts and my productivity skyrocketed. Then when I moved onto Maya and modo, I took it even further and began creating my own keyboard shortcuts, shelves, marking menus, pie menus, and layouts, my productivity increased again. As such, I'm now much more comfortable, efficient, and willing to play around a lot more. The biggest difference however is I feel like it's more of a creative endevour than a technical one. That is to say, it's much more natural to work, and keep the "stream of conscienceness" flowing. Instead of constantly breaking the flow, I'm seamlessly moving from one tool to another, all to achieve the end result. Before it seemed every action was it's own step with it's own end goal, breaking the flow.
Re:Blender and stupid hot keys (Score:2)
Re:Blender and stupid hot keys (Score:2)
Typical whiner.
Re:Blender and stupid hot keys (Score:2, Insightful)
Just to be awkward (Score:2)
Re:First Post (Score:5, Informative)
I have attempted to use K3D and blender, and still play about with them. Blender is a nice looking interface, but it is daunting and has a tall learning curve. It uses massively complicated menus and certainly to someone who was taught on 3DS MAX a difficult interface and no foreseeable improvement to MAX from the get go. K3D, however, I liked. It has a simple interface, and its tree set-up for objects is a good way to edit and change objects settings. The only problem that I could see with this program was that the interface looked old and felt cluttered even on the 21inch screen I was using. I would hope that developers could look at K3D more and develop it further, as I believe it has the potential to rival 3DS MAX, Maya and Blender
Thanks,
Badspyro
Re:First Post (Score:5, Insightful)
My main three complaints, as a new user, were that:
Honestly, the primary reason Blender doesn't have a larger following in the industry is momentum. Learning a 3D suite is a task comparable to learning another language. Most people don't have the time or will to do that.
For anyone wanting to learn 3D, brace your shoulders and push past the month or two it will take to feel comfortable with Blender. If you don't have what it takes to learn Blender, you're going nowhere in 3D anyway. And you'll find that, whiz-banginess aside, Blender can do what Max can do. And in my opinion, it's faster.
Re:Projects need a commanding focus (Score:2)
Re:The state of it ? (Score:2)
Re:AoI IS cross-platform (Score:2)
Also, AoI produces and validates true 3D shapes. This is important, as shapes which merely look like they're 3D but in reality have a few klein bottles hidden within the mesh are impossible to print out on a 3D printer.
Finally, the AoI community is extremely helpful and responsive. For these reasons, we use AoI in the RepRap Project [reprap.org] to build objects for our Open Source 3D printer.
Vik
Re:Blender LOOKS better. (Score:2)
LoB
Re:Blender is maturing, not shwing its age (Score:2)