Where to Go After a Lifetime in IT? 902
Pikoro asks: "I have been working in the IT field for the past 20 years or so, and after getting hired by the largest financial company in the world, I thought I might have finally found a place to retire from. However, after working here for almost a year, I find myself, not exactly burnt out, but longing for a complete career field change. It's not that doing IT related tasks aren't fun anymore, but they have become more 'work' than 'play' over the last few years. Since all of my experience has been IT related, I'm not sure where I could go from here. What would you consider doing for a living, after being in a single field for so long?"
Which IT? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have a great deal of experience with risk managemnt - there may be an opportunity for you in the stock market.
It's all about which areas you have experience in, and how comfortably you are at adapting your skills to a new environment.
Move to Paradise (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd go teach (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Careers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Which IT? (Score:5, Insightful)
For instance: it would only take about a week of Windows desktop support to burn me out, but I'm pretty certain I'll be doing network/application architecture and hacking on UN*X and OSS apps until I'm permanently retired (and probably for fun thereafter). After all, this is what I was doing for fun before I figured out I could get paid for it
You might also look at getting out of the "world's largest" anything
In summary: find something you like to do (might even be in tech), and find a company to do it for that's small enough to be flexible, fun and still concerned about the individual. Maybe easier said than done, but there are certainly a lot of places hiring sysadmins and programmers lately
That depends (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Teach (Score:5, Insightful)
Because he doesn't want to start out at the bottom of the pay scale?
Teaching pay scales are not based on merit, but on time served. He would be making the same as the aforementioned dipshit but with much larger bills to pay, regardless of much the kids might benefit.
Private school is not that much more competitive, either.
Hate Job? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Drive a Truck (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Move to Paradise (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Jeoparody (Score:3, Insightful)
You're apparently unaware of just how insane property values in New York (and Southern California, and Singapore, and a few other places where human congregations exceed 300 people per square kilometer) really are. Try "move to another state where property values are 30% less", because it isn't just 2 miles down the road, it's 200 miles down the road. Where concentrations of people need food shipped in from far away, food prices go up. And all the rest.
A $100k job in New York City is the same as a $25k job in Kansas- that's how different the prices really are.
And don't open a comic/games/collectibles store! (Score:5, Insightful)
When people tell you to "follow your dreams" what they mean is "follow your dreams--as long as your dreams are reasonable and you have the qualifications and skills needed to pursue them."
Re:Bingo. (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't need to learn to seperate your hobbies from your skills. I would venture to say that that is the worst thing you can do. A hobby is work that you don't get paid to do. If you enjoy your hobby and you are passionate about it, why can't you make a living at it too and then be passionate about your job? Employers want employees that enjoy coming to work. That's why they offer so many incentives like day-care, flexible schedules, cafeterias, company transportation, discount programs, recreational activities and so on and so forth. They WANT you to LIKE to come to work. They don't want it to be difficult for you to come to work. Why do they want all that? Because a happy employee is a productive employee that contributes to the good of the compnay which benefits everyone, including the employee.
If you chose to seperate your hobbies from your skills, that's up to you. However, if you have developed skills then it's obvious that maybe, at one point, enjoyed those skills enough to focus on them. So if you are artificailly limiting yourself by confining your skills to work, you must find your hobbies just as dreadful. Mainly because you aren't as skilled at your hobbies as you are at your work which is based on skills you likely enjoy more.
IT is a hobby and a job for me. I didn't get into it because it was something that I could stand doing for decades. I got into it because I really enjoyed working with the computers. I also saw a good deal of earning potential that could support my other expensive hobbies and the skill sets I could pick up were also transferrable to my other hobbies. Also, no matter how much I know, no matter how much experience I have, there is ALWAYS something new around the corner to discover and learn about.
There is a tremendous potential for growth in any profession as long as you are willing to look past your nose that you are seemingly keeping on the grind stone. You should take it off every once in a while. You might see things for what they really are. Afterall, if you keep your head down and grinding away, how are you ever going to take a look and see all the opportunities around you? Don't go through life with such large, self-induced blinders on. You are missing way too much!
Re:Bingo. (Score:2, Insightful)
Too fucking true. I love what I do. Getting paid well to do what is basically your hobby is great. Hating your job means you hate half your waking life. That'd suck.
Re:Limited options (Score:5, Insightful)
Otherwise, get a job flipping burgers at your local McDonalds, and work your way up.
He got modded down as a troll, but he's exactly right. It was just about the best advice offered here.
The worst thing you can do with a mid-life crisis is follow your impulse.
Do not change careers.
Do not buy an expensive sports car.
Do not leave your wife for a 20-year old bimbo.
They might all seem like VERY good ideas right now, but your rich, comfortable 60-year old self will thank you if you stick it out right now as you go through this "trapped in a life you hate" phase and keep cranking away.
Re:Jeoparody (Score:5, Insightful)
If you live on 80% of your income in NYC, you have $20k left over every year.
This is a HUGE difference--it's the difference between being able to retire at age 45 and being able to retire at age 70.
And, only an incredibly poor or incredibly stupid person spends 100% of his income in the local economy.
Not to mention, $100k in NYC is more like $70k in urban Kansas.
Re:Limited options (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And don't open a comic/games/collectibles store (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, what I mean is go out and do it. If that means you need to obtain skills to do it, then do that first. I say follow your dreams, not get ahead of yourself.
I also believe that there is nothing that you can imagine yourself doing (within certain realities of physics, of course) that you cannot conceivably do. Have you seen Ong Bak or The Protector? This guy Tony Jaa grew up watching pissed-off Kung Fu movies and no one ever told him that people needed wires to do these badass stunts where they run up the side of things and so on, and as a consequence he learned to do those things without wires. I don't mean the anime/kung-fu leap that sends you thirty feet up into the sky or anything here - again, reminders about physics apply.
But the point is, how many things could we have done if no one told us we couldn't? If we weren't constantly discouraged from our "fool dreams" by parents, teachers, society...
Been there, done that, not worth it. (Score:5, Insightful)
And as you progress past a certain level, it takes cubic dollars to advance - and the people with access to that sort of money suffer from a reality distortion field strength that has to be experienced to be believed.
I had a lot of fun racing, and I met a lot of cool people and got to do a lot of cool stuff, but I also spent a metric assload of money with little to show for it save a website, a bunch of trophies, a Speed TV clip, and a bruised credit card.
I'd've done better to stay in the Army.
DG
Re:Careers (Score:5, Insightful)
That's good advice, as long as what you meant by "go from there" was "then stay in your current job that pays well, and have fun with your hobbies on evenings and weekends."
Do you want to live like a 22-year old again? In a tiny apartment with a roommate or two and an old beat-up car in the parking garage? Having to borrow from family to buy any big-ticket items? With no health insurance? Being on the bottom rung of pretty much everything? Only without as much energy, naive optimism, or potential for growth?
If so, then changing careers or starting a new business is a fantastic idea.
Otherwise, find the fun in what you are doing now. Being poor when you're fresh out of college is normal. Being poor as a middle-aged man is depressing.
Re:Jeoparody (Score:5, Insightful)
It actually pays to take the higher-paying jobs in more expensive areas (up to a certain point), as long as 1) you're frugal, invest wisely, and save money, and 2) have an exit strategy. This is because you'll have some leftover at either place, but you'll have more leftover cash in the high COL place. Plus, there's more economic opportunities (such as the recent real estate boom) to take advantage of. The idea is, you make the most of the high-COL area while you're there, and save up as much money as possible, then you get the hell out and move to a lower COL area and retire/relax/take a lower-paying job etc., while enjoying a big pile of cash, paid-off nice house, etc.
You have to be careful, though, because you have to look at the pay versus the COL, and determine how much leftover money you'll have for saving and investment. Especially take into account home ownership, because buying a home in a moderately-high COL place which will appreciate greatly is a much better deal than renting an apartment in an insanely-high COL place (Silicon Valley, NYC) and having nothing when you move out. As long as the realty market is stable, home ownership can make a huge difference in your life, as many California refugees have shown recently. If you own a home in a high-COL place and stay there a while, even if you don't pay off much principle, the value will go up so much that you can take the profit and buy a whole house in a low-COL place.
If your plan is to stay in one place your whole life, then the high-COL place may not make much sense. But anyone should know by now that it doesn't pay to not be mobile. You want to earn a good living, you have to go where the money is. It's not going to come to you out in the sticks.
Re:Which IT? (Score:3, Insightful)
maybe "financial" is the problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:MBA? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cars oddly enough (Score:4, Insightful)
Dude, I'm pretty much in the middle of the pack when it comes to programmer salaries in my region at my level of experience, and I've yet to meet an auto mechanic of any kind who makes half as much as I do.
These days, when a component of an electrical system in a car fails, they don't bring in an engineer to rebuild it. A shop monkey reads the diagnostic computer that tells him which part to replace, he replaces it, and the car is back on the road a few hours later.
Re:Limited options (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree. Whether you're rich and comfortable or not, when you're lying on your deathbed, are you going to think back on your life and say "if only I had tried this" or "I may not have done everything I wanted, but I gave it my best shot?"
The only people who should ignore their dreams and stick with the lives they hate are people who believe in reincarnation. They believe they have another shot at it, they can try it again. The rest of us have to believe that we have to make it in this life or not at all. And while you may not make it if you try, you definitely won't make it if you just rest on your laurels and live in complacency.
Live your life, it's likely the only one you get.
Re:Limited options (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not about "following your dreams". One presumed that's what you did to get where you are. What you are doing now is pining for the chance to see if there's more to life than what you've already accomplished.
There is. And you already have it. Learn to appreciate how good you've got it, and get past this foolish feeling of unrest which is 90% caused by the drop in testosterone that every man experiences as he gets old, and 10% caused by pondering the roads you chose not to go down.
Re:I didn't want to be an IT drone... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Careers (Score:3, Insightful)
In all fairness, I feel Pikoro is to blame: protocol on Ask Slashdot is to ask for legal advice so that responses can follow one of two possible formats:
- 1. "IANAL, but..."
- 2. "Ask Slashdot isn't a substitute for an attorney, you retard!"
It makes it very difficult for us to mock the Askee when they ask sensible IT-related questions!Re:Limited options (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Keep your job - stability is fleeting and you will be glad you stayed with it when you are finally outsourced or laid off
2. Start paying yourself from the nice salary you are making -
a. if you are in debt, pay it down asap
b. if you are not in debt, save money as much as you can
1. set up a fund to go around the world and fund it decently - 15K or so should do the trick
2. put everything in your 401K that you can
3. pay down your house so you can save even more
c. whenever you start feeling that everything is pointless, look at the progress you've made and congratulate yourself
3. Learn something new, maybe even pay for your own certs / classes -- once you have certs note how much better you are treated when they realize you are secure in your skills and knowlege and marketability
4. Focus on your family and spend quality time with them. They are really the reason you are working anyway. enjoy them - they are your reward for putting up with the crap
5. Remeber to look around and appreciate at least one thing each day. Whatever it is, it didn't have to happen and if you count your blessings you will find you have more than if you grump around expecting the world to conform to your perspective du jour.
Re:Jeoparody (Score:4, Insightful)
If you don't get shot first living where you would have to live to save $15k a year in NY.
Re:Limited options (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm also guessing that it will be a relatively short interval in my very long life, and an experience which I will not spend any time remembering.
I'm far more concerned about being as happy as possible for as much of my life as possible.
The answer is simple: (Score:3, Insightful)
What I chose was film and video production. My IT experience had some relevance. In fact it has increasing relevance. Still, after 7 years this pays only a fraction of what I made in IT. Part of that is my fault, because I am taking it "easier" than I should be.
I am MUCH happier however.
The point is to put some serious thought into what you like to do, and try and do that professionally. Some people like fixing cars. Other folks like hockey. (I did that too, but never full time despite trying to become full time.) Whatever.
Before you make any changes, study your new area. Gain some expertise. Do it as a hobby for a bit to make sure you like it enough to try it as a profession.
This may sound familiar to you, because its how I, and probably a lot of folk here, got into computers.
New Horizons (Score:5, Insightful)
After 15 years in IT, I quit (actually, not by choice. The dot-com meltdown of 2000 left me unemployed.) So, I started a toy company. You can see some of it at http://www.rlt.com/ [rlt.com]
Now that the waves of destruction from the internet big boom have subsided, would I go back to IT? No way! I'm a toymaker now and loving it. So do my kids...
As I've said before, programmers and sysadmins have some incredible advantages over most MBAs. You have LOGIC. You are CREATIVE. You have a propensity for
PROBLEM SOLVING. You can think through and visualize a plan of action from beginning to end. You can change course and re-program the system
when requirements change. You know that very few, if any, projects are ever really finished. You're a hacker who knows how to shoot from the
hip to get a job done on deadline, even if it isn't "elegant". You know that "Done" usually only means "it works at the moment and when
it breaks, we'll fix it". Guess what, these qualities plus a willingness to try and fail then try again (kind of like compiling) are what make entrepreneurs
successful. Another advantage you have is that you won't have to hire some expensive tech guy to do your programming/sysadmin/DBA stuff for
you.
You can do it. Just remember- there are a million reasons why you'll fail, and everyone will be happy to remind you of them constantly. But there's only one reason why you will succede- because you make it happen. So, ignore the naysayers and the critics, trust your instincts and go start a business.
Have fun!
Re:Jeoparody (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm at the point in my carrer where this computer thing is getting boring. It is time to move on and I will be moving back to Pittsburgh. There I can pay cash for a house if desired, by some rental property, and have enough left over to buy some construction equipment and do nothing but side jobs at my own pace and comfort level.
Every penny you spend now is probably 20 less pennies you will have in 30 years. What advantage is that Dodge Viper you bought in 2005 going to give you 30 years later when it is long gone and you are 60 years old? Not much when you are still forced to work at that age to make ends meet. Think long term people, long term.
Re:Limited options (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, my father (who has been retired for a while) worked 30 straight years since his 20's till he retired. He's currently well off and owns 3 houses, but he's always told me that if he had to do it over again he would have gotten a career change or stopped working when he was younger and traveled the world a bit before having a family. He really hated his government job, but he did it for the money.
You could imagine the shock when the doctors told him that they thought he had prostrate cancer only 6 months after retiring. All that hard work for nothing...
Luckily he didn't have cancer but he still tells me "Sometimes the money isn't worth it. You could die any day of the week. Your young. Get a job you like before you get too old!"
But still... You don't want to overspend yourself if you do decide to get a career change.
Re:Limited options (Score:5, Insightful)
More specifically, it means "doing whatever the hell you want."
Re:Limited options (Score:5, Insightful)
There is. And you already have it."
Bullshit. that is a contradiction. What kind of a superhero is so awsome that they can accomplish all there is to do in life and be simultaneously such a retard that they dont know it.
If you already have it, then kill yourself. why the hell would you want to just hold on and slowly watch the world crumble around you while you sit uselessly and smug in your knowledge that you HAVE it? explain the meaning of that? yes.. it would be great for your boss if you just kept on cranking away.. afterall.. thats what its all about right?
life is not about stagnation. Its not about HAVING. its about growing. Its about seeing, learning and teaching.. and in the end its about dying. And it doesn't matter if you die broke because in the end. YOU DIE. You may as well die right now if you've done all you are ever going to do.
Don't be a chicken shit. success is measured by challenges overcome, deeds accomplished, inventions and creations, not by dollars. I look at people 10 to 20 years older than me who have basically decided 'ohh.. my time to live is over' and it is beyond pathetic. It is the very definition of OLD. And the same time some people that age dont have that attitude.. and they dont seem old in any way. you can lose everything you have at ANY time. and in the end you WILL.
Perhaps you'll have an interesting tale to tell when you are 70 so you wont be completely useless.
if every man experiences a longing to find something MORE as they get older perhaps that is a clue. There *IS* something more.. and whoever tells you that you should just take it easy is killing you. They aren't a friend. They are a parasite holding you back.
lets say someone works their ass off then hits 65 and is staring down a whole wad of cash.. then what? go and pay people to shuttle you around like an idiot for the rest of your days? Why did you live at all if that was all you ever thought to accomplish? sit around and uselessly accumulate for your entire life, and not only are you destroying your own life.. but you are destroying the lives of everyone around you by being a horrible role model. you and all your loved ones are being diminished.. with that philosophy you may as well all be oxen, pulling the plow. nothing more.
Go live.. be human.
Re:Cars oddly enough (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, you still have to deal with complex problems, trial-and-error fixing, and customer service. So there are benefits and downsides.
Re:Where to go after a lifetime ? (Score:4, Insightful)
I know that feeling when its not enough "play" anymore, you're taking the blackboxing/exploration/creativity out of the equation and rely solely on allready aquired skills.
what do you do?
you aquire NEW skills in the field, wich has the potential to gap over to your current work
Hows your AI doing? Datamining? It takes a long time for AI to become "boring"
hundreds of possibilities im sure.
Re:Jeoparody (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hate Job? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you don't like a job for 6 months, find another. Repeat until you find one you like. Also don't worry about loyalty. Do you really think the company you work for cares. Your boss may actually care but he isn't likely the one to lay you off. Some VP in an office will be in order to make sure he gets his bonus. If you leave when he needs you that VP may lose his bonus.
It is in your hands. The system is just set to appear that it is not.
Doesn't have to be 'hell' (Score:5, Insightful)
IT covers alot of ground (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't see how you can think that you have exhausted all your options in it.
Technically, after 20-years, you should either be at an Architect or Manager level - both of these open your career up to sideway shifts into other management style roles.
Personally, I think you've got to the stage in your career where you're no longer interested in learning EVERY NEW THING that turns up. You feel you've done enough 12-16hr days, that you shouldn't have to do that anymore (or perhaps you just have a crap manager that doesn't appreciate you and has you doing work that doesn't interest you) - basically, you want to move into management where you're telling other people what to do instead of being stuck with the day-to-day techy issues. You have the benefit of comming from the techy background and thus have an appreciation for the technology - You should do well.
You will miss some of the buzz you get from picking up a new IT "toy" and playing with it, but hopefully, you'll be paid enough not to care.
If you still aren't happy, start your own business. - Don't think about the technology, but rather the business domain that you know best - since you'll need to sell it to Business people and they hold the purse strings - not the snot-nosed pimple-faced linux geek in the corner.
Re:Doesn't have to be 'hell' (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Doesn't have to be 'hell' (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cars oddly enough (Score:3, Insightful)
Take it from me: The misspent youth isn't misspent. I'm spending a lot -- A LOT of time and resources going along and trying to learn how to "misspend" my time, because living the ideal life is boring, stressful, and lonely.
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
He, on the other hand, has to work and get his hands dirty and is probably not as comfortable as you are.
Oh, sure, it would be awesome now - but when you both hit the wrong side of 50, you can still do your job (ergonomic keyboards and chairs and what not) while he would find it harder.
Working in IT tends to be quite cushy compared to jobs in a lot of other areas.
Re:Limited options (Score:1, Insightful)
Success is nothing more than a state of mind, and while accomplishments contribute to that they certainly are not the end all be all. There may be something "more" but you'll never grasp it, the moment you do the feeling will be temporary but inevitabley disipaite. The only way to a lasting serenity is acceptance; to be grateful for what you have and let go of the things you don't. When you find acceptance it doesn't matter if you have gobs of money or none, it doesn't mater how many things you've created or broken, nor how high you've climbed or low you've fallen. Acceptance is not acknowledge "my life is over," it's simply being content with what you have.
Taking it easy doesn't kill you, the constant unfulfilled desire for somethign bigger, something greater, something more powerful is what kills. Perhaps your best bet is to read MacBeth, that's pure ambition at its finest. Once you've accepted life as it is you'll naturally stop fretting away the hours of a (dull) day and morning what you've lost. You will know a new freedom and a new happiness. You will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. You will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. You will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in your fellows. Your whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.
-The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older, shorter of breath, and one day closer to death.
Plumbing (Score:2, Insightful)
I just did it 3 weeks ago... (Score:3, Insightful)
It took me a couple of years to finally figure out what my *REAL* passion in life was and I am now pursuing it. I started culinary school, been studying my ass off, but I couldn't be happier!
I have a wonderfully supportive wife who is keeping us afloat until I can get out of school. Granted, the pay for bakers / pastry chefs is about 1/3 - 1/2 of what I used to make, but when you weigh the cost of being burned out against your sanity, it doesn't matter.
The only advise I would give you would be to reduce the amount of your outgoing expenditures and find something that you REALLY want to do.
Like my dad always told me, "...do what you love and the money will follow..."
Re:Limited options (Score:3, Insightful)
But, even if everything you said was true - that the money works out how you say and that very few people look back and are content - I would want to be one of those people. I would want to be one of those that enjoyed that 2 week trip after high school for the next 50 years. I might not be sure if I would be that person or not, but i know the safe ones, the turtles of the world, aren't. Some of them have more cash, some of them are happier then they every would be otherwise but none of them became that person, that person who inspires.
Better to have lived and loved as they say.....
Re:Doesn't have to be 'hell' (Score:5, Insightful)
Granted, they won't harvest your organs, but I've been cheated out of overtime pay, and no one looks to have lost sleep over having done it. They did what was profitable for the company, because that's where their loyalties lie. Well, my loyalties lie where? With me. My self-interest. My bottom line. My quality of life. Why would I, why should I, have a morality, a conscience, a system of ethics that puts me at such a stark disadvantage with my employer?
We're told that corporate managers not only can do the legal but ethically questionable, but they have a moral imperative to do as much as they legally can to maximize profit for the sharholders, even if some hippies may blanch at making money off of totalitarian regimes, human rights violators, and so on.
Well, the main shareholder in my life is me, and I think I'm justified in maximizing my investment of time, effort, education, frustration, and so on. It would be wrong to be less that zealous in looking out for my investments, and though I believe in the benefits of morality, human decency, and integrity, I feel justified in having at least as much flexibility as my employer does when defining those terms for operational use within the context of my working life.
Don't leave IT, just leave Finance (Score:2, Insightful)
You may very well be sick of IT altogether, but before embarking on a total career change you may want to take a stab at just working for a company with a different corporate culture to see if that's really what you want.