High Paying Jobs in Math and Science? 383
An anonymous reader asks: "Where are the high paying jobs for those who are good in math and science? I've heard about math and science shortages for almost two decades now, and I was wondering what high salary/high demand jobs have resulted from these shortages. Most science majors I know actually make less than teachers (in Texas teachers make $38-40K to start for nine months of work). In terms of money, what career would you pursue coming out of college right now with a math or science degree?"
The one you like (Score:4, Informative)
The one you're most interested in. Seriously, if all you care about is money, go be an investment banker or a money whore somewhere else. Our field is littered with people like you who get a job hoping for big bucks but end up circling the drain for a few years while producing horrible work.
However, software engineers at the various consultancies pay fairly well. Perhaps the R&D arm of a pharmaceutical company as well.
Economics (Score:5, Informative)
There is also several consulting firms that *love* Physics Ph.D.'s. Not sure about Math people on that one though. This one would require *a lot* of travel though.
Hope that helps
Chemical Engineer, Petroleum Engineer? (Score:5, Informative)
One nice thing about the job is you get to work with huge cool dangerous equipment. If you work for the right company in the right capacity you might even contribute to solving some important problems, like petroleum dependency.
Re:The one you like (Score:5, Informative)
It's nice to do what you love, but you have to put food on the table somehow. I know that many fields are tainted with green fever; people looking to make a buck rather than have any real passion for the task at hand. The computer science/fly-by-night cert mill debacle, for example.
It's not a bad thing to ask which jobs will help you pay your student loans and give you a decent quality of life versus ones that will doom you to debt and a monastic lifestyle for years to come.
Operations Research / Applied Math (Score:4, Informative)
There's OR applications in areas such as health-care, environmental management, forestry management, transportation, and much more. Environmental management, in particular, is something that operations research is going to play a huge role as government and industry focus on reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
And because there's such a practical role towards it, there's plenty of support from government and industry, not just in terms of jobs at the end but also scholarships, fellowships, etc. Ask around a math, CS, or engineering department! I'm sure it won't be hard to find someone who can point you in the right direction.
Re:For math... (Score:4, Informative)
Gov't (Score:4, Informative)
Some of the best non-academic jobs out there for math/science are government or government contractors. Obviously, the NSA is a huge one. There are many other national labs and research institutes. Sanida, LLNL, NSWC, etc. Pay is good (not actuary good, but good) and benefits are very good. The added plus is you work a 40 hr week. With a masters, I think you can start between 50-60K. That beats starting at 70-80K in finance and working twice as much... but that's just my feeling.
On the other side, there are government contractors. Metron, SAIC are two big ones. There are numerous smaller ones. These will have slightly higher pay, and some retirement plans at them are really fantastic. The downside is that some smaller ones rely heavily on one specific type of research.
The other thing I've noticed in my job search is that, not to insult engineers, but many companies feel that if you know the math/science, you can learn the engineering quickly. If you have some basic experience in, say, math application in petroleum engineering, then Exxon would love to talk with you.
That being said, I'm staying in academia and doing a post-doc next year. Pay is okay (55K
Good luck to any of you who decide to go into math/science. The US REALLY needs good scientists!
Better get that PhD (Score:3, Informative)
If you do get a PhD, then apply for a job at a hedge fund company. You can make very respectable money at a company like that, although they generally have their pick of the litter.
Quantitative Analyst (Score:1, Informative)
To get a feel for the subject I recommend "The Mathematics of Financial Markets" by Elliott and Kopp and "Options, Futures and Other Derivatives" by Hull.
If you really want to go after the money, finance is currently your best choice.
Good luck.
Re:Teachers (Score:5, Informative)
For me and other people in my school, we are required to be at school from 8-4. However, we also run programs before and after school, often unpaid. During athletics, I might spend another 15 or 20 hours on the weekend supervising the student store. I coach Academic Decathlon for a stipend of $500 per YEAR. I run a peer suicide intervention program that also earns me a stipend, another whole $600 per year. Students often call my home or show up at my door at all hours. I tutor, I meet with parents, I run evening workshops to help students write college essays and do their FAFSA. That doesn't include grading or lesson planning or report cards or any of the million things that have to be done.
Last week was my last week of school and this week, I'm working at the district office for a week, revising curriculum so that it will work better for our students. I considered getting a summer job, but instead I have to go to school to take classes so I can keep my certification. I'll finish school the week before my fall inservice. In addition to specific college classes I have to take, I have to do yearly trainings on the weekend on topics like Fetal Alcohol Effect, Domestic Violence, and First Aid/CPR.
I don't mind doing a job where I make less money than I would somewhere else, because I made a conscious decision to leave my tech job and take a job in education. I do however mind being told how easy my job is, and how great the hours are, and how well I'm paid. I'm also tired of people who think I must not have been able to get a "real" job and that's why I got an education degree.
Re:Nine months... what? (Score:3, Informative)
Hate to break it to you, but doctors and lawyers (not sure about engineers) have their own form of unionization. The American Medical Association and the Bar find ways to restrict the supply of doctors and lawyers, respectively, as well as to reduce the number of competitors and alternatives to doctors and lawyers, sometimes with government force. In all states (I don't know of any counterexamples), doctors and lawyers must be licensed by these agencies; no competing agencies are allowed. In order to get licensed, you'll have to go to a AMA- or Bar-approved medical or law school (once again, no alternatives). Since these cartels don't want much competition (hence, keeping salaries high), admission to a medical or law school is very difficult; thousands of students competing for so few slots.
So, don't think for a minute that doctors and lawyers aren't in "unions." They're just called different names.
Re:If they won't pay your salary... (Score:4, Informative)
Here's the thing - even if you were to go out on your own, you wouldn't get to keep that 100,000. Sure, you can work from a home office - if you already have a clientele and never have to have a face to face meeting or do any marketing where the client comes to see your facility. Otherwise you need a real office or have to rent a conference room in a shared space, then admit you don't have a "real" office. Not very professional (oh, I'm gonna get flamed for that one).
Next, you'll need to come up with your employers part of the taxes for your salary, and your benefits. Taxes for a small firm are probably down in the 10-12% range for everything (payroll, which is 7.2% off of the top, plus capital/merchant's tax, on things like your software and computers, desk, chairs, etc.) - no big deal. Benefits...well, your dead simple health plan will run you $3k a year on yourself - if you're healthy. The "good" healthcare you get from the fed gov't will cost you about $10,000/yr, and still won't cover everything. Add a few hundred to thousand if you get dental. Life and disability might go another couple hundred. Retirement will run about 3-5% more for a simple 403(b)/401(k) as long as you don't put any of your "own" money in and expect it to get matched. Then there's vacation, holiday, and sick leave. We'll call that 30 days (10 federal holidays, 2 weeks of vacation, 2 weeks of sick). That's going to reduce your 52 week output by 13% - but we'll just call it a cost; actually, it's 13% of your gross billables, so at 100k, that's closer to 32% of your take home pay. Although you might have your computer now, you'll need to buy proper software licenses, and keep them current. Mine run about $2000-$2500/yr for the basics, on average, if you include upgrades that aren't annual. No more educational Word for you. We'll say 5% of your salary. Now, let's talk business insurance. General liability? Good idea - probably 3% if you're careful and don't have much to insure. You're a scientist, so errors and omissions might be prudent as a consultant (mine is 12% of gross billables - that'd be about 30% of your net income at 40k). We'll give you $100/mo for supplies (paper, toner, pencils, etc.)
Now, you're going to have to do some continuing education, or seminars, plus you'll need to do the accounting and taxes, and no doubt a bit of marketing - having only one client is a dangerous place to be when you're on your own. We'll give you $3000 for your total travel budget and seminar fees (which isn't much), add 2 weeks of missed work for marketing and said education (again, low, but we'll assume you have good clients), then drop 2 hours a week on billing, taxes, and other adminitrative fees.
So, where do we stand...you don't have an office, and you don't pay yourself back for internet, rent, electricity, or heat/ac. You meet clients around your kitchen table. You keep up with your field and you do a bit of marketing (which includes those unbillable calls for potential clients that always crop up). You pay your taxes and file on time with the local, state, and fed athorities. You pay for software - no warez on your machine. I'm getting about $48,000 in fees and "lost work" over the course of your $100,000 year, leaving you almost $12,000 to the good! Of course, that presumes that you do manage to make all that time billable.
FWIW - I have an office, though it's in the low rent district, someone to do my accounting, and a part time cad student to help out. On January 1, I know I will owe $80,000 to various people over the next 12 months, so that number above isn't just blowing smoke.
Re:Science pays generally well. (Score:3, Informative)
Teachers in the suburbs around the bigger cities (where most science jobs would be) pretty much get $40K. 45% of the teachers work in these districts. Here is a quote from TexasISD.com:
Starting Pay
The average starting salary for a new teacher is $32,266, a 10-percent increase from the 2005-06 average of $29,354. This year's average starting salary is 18 percent higher than the state minimum starting salary of $27,320. The average starting salary in districts with more than 10,000 students is $39,457, an 8.5-percent increase from last year.
Seventy-three responding districts (10 percent) have an entry-level salary of $40,000 or greater. Forty-five percent of teachers (130,644) in the sample work in these districts.
The average starting salary in districts with more than 50,000 students is $41,025.
Eighty-seven districts (12 percent) pay teachers on the state minimum teacher salary schedule. These districts employ only 1.5 percent of teachers (4,313) in the sample. Highest Salaries The average highest salary paid in districts to 10-month teachers with a bachelor's degree is $51,349. The average highest salary paid in districts with more than 10,000 students is $62,551. Districts with more than 50,000 students have the highest top salaries paid at $65,875 on average.
From: http://www.texasisd.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/28/5
Re:For math... (Score:5, Informative)
Lots of money, tough maths, and as secure as high-flying financial sector jobs are because demand for those skills is likely to keep increasing in the long term.
Medical Physics (Score:1, Informative)
Working in a clinic, you'll START at $80-90k w/MS, ~$120k with a Ph.D., slightly lower working in R&D/Industry.
Great job satisfaction, saving lives and all.
Re:Teachers (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The one you like (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The one you like (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I could not disagree more (Score:4, Informative)
They all got wiped out by a 1986 Supreme Court ruling, which effectively said the usury laws had to be whatever was highest in whatever state the financial company was in. Suddenly, loads of financial companies opened offices in South Dakota- which has no usury law at all. They can now charge watever the market can bear- some companies now charge up to 520% interest on loans.
The problem with capping rates at anything has more to do with inflation than "creating slavery". I am on the side of freedom so I believe that anyone should be able to charge any interest they want provided it is legal. It does take *both* parties to agree on such rates. What I really loath are the contracts where there are additional fees not included in the normal interest rate and this is what is even more alarming than people having a perpetual CC debt at 20% or 30%.
What's more alarming to me is all of these contracts are one-sided; in the fine print the mortage and credit card companies usually add a clause allowing them to change the interest rate unilaterally. I've learned my lesson- and insisted on my last mortgage that I get a fixed rate that doesn't have that clause.
Anyway, what happens when inflation jumps to 10% or 15%? Interest rates on loans have to be *at least* that to just break even, but normally are at least 5% higher. Capping interest rates artificially would stop lending after inflation got high enough. That probably could stop inflation too, except we are now in the global economy era so inflation is usually imported as we are currently seeing (China/India used to export deflation so inflation was pulled very low, but now the wages in China are going up, yuan is going up and base metal and oil prices are 3X-5X higher than a few years ago, so inflation HAS TO happen worldwide. Interest rate increases will not stop it that easy, but I digress)
There's another answer to inflation if the interest rates are capped- a return to supply and demand pricing. With larger prices, demand falls in relation to supply, which triggers deflation.
Maybe the only possible solution is to flag people with debt problems so they can no longer get any loans. But that maybe seen as draconian as well.
Well, you see, that's what a usury law does- people with debt problems, who get charged those higher rates of interest, simply can't get loans anymore. If inflation goes beyond the usury, that is EVERYBODY who has a debt problem (inflation is a sign of irrational credit management) and nobody can get a loan.
In conclusion, I think people should be more responsible themselves as if they get into these debt problems it is usually their own doing.
And if everybody gets into these debt problems because a certain segment of society believes that they are owed a profit no matter what (inflation is driven by CxO salaries after all)?
PS. But if you are talking about the "payday loans" businesses, I really think they should be shut down. These prey on the uninformed or otherwise and I do not think there is ANY reason for their existence. If one cannot get a loan from a normal bank (ie. a line of credit) or does not have a CC because of current debt load, then they should not get more debt. Sadly these "payday loan" sharks are allowed to exist. Very sad.
Payday loans are just an extension of the primary problem- they would not be able to exist if their ability to charge interest was limited. Bring back the usury laws, and predatory lending such as Credit Cards and Payday Loans disappear- because their profit margin is such that they can't survive without those interest rates.
Re:I could not disagree more (Score:2, Informative)
Debt is in the driver's seat of the economy. Has the dairy industry's production capacity [supply] shrunk to only 0.25% of its former self so that a gallon of milk is really worth 400% more than it was seven years ago, or is a our rising senior citizen population demanding 400% more calcium-enriched milk than ever before? With supply and demand pricing instead of inflationary debt pricing our leaders can't promise us an all-new Tundra CrewMax or Escalade in every garage, but perhaps a little more stability wouldn't be a bad price to pay for a few less shiny toys.
Quant Analyst (Score:3, Informative)
There are many kinds of Quant, this is what some of them do, but it's not exhaustive -
1) Desk Quant - help traders understand trading issues on a day-to-day basis. Rapid application development (probably on Excel/VBA/C#), quick/pragmatic thinking are essential skills here.
2) Analytical Developer - less math (still got to understand it though), more programming (exceptional skills). Development of analytics libraries - probably implementing/optimising/enhancing ideas that a Desk Quant or Modeller has developed for the desk. Much more 'backroom', but not as well paid.
3) Quant Modeller - concentrate on developing new model ideas, and requires very very very good maths skills. What most people mean when they talk about 'a Quant'. Make a packet of cash if they develop something useful (before the rest of the market does).
What do I do? I'm mostly 1 and 2 in Equity Exotics at a US bank. I'm well paid and love my job. It's very hard work, but that's what you get paid for! There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
Make sure you study stochastic calculus in your degree (Math/Physics/CompSci). Do the degree to an advanced level at a good school (get at least a Masters or Phd). You should at least know what Black-Scholes is and how to derive it. Don't be scared to apply - those who don't ask, don't get.
There are many other things to consider - what asset class you would like to work in - Equities, Credit, Energy, FX, Commodities, Rates... or which area - Risk, Trading, Research, etc., Each has different emphasis on skills, different requirements of computing and math skills. My bank lets Quants move between asset classes and job emphasis, I don't think this is universal though.
Re:The one you like (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The one you like (Score:3, Informative)