Best Non-Subscription DVR? 153
ngc5194 asks: "I'm thinking about joining the 21st century and purchasing a Digital Video Recorder. However, I DO NOT want to subscribe to any services. I understand that this will limit what my DVR can do, and I'm fine if it just acts like a solid-state VCR. Given the constraint above (no subscription services), which would be the best DVR to purchase and why?"
If you're worried about artificial limitations.... (Score:5, Informative)
Then go with mythTV. Anything else will limit you in some way.
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Re:If you're worried about artificial limitations. (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong [silverstonetek.com].
I can build one for ~ USD500 - 600. Admittedly without the gorgeous silverstone case.
Not as cheap as a DVR, but no subscription. And much
more functional.
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http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/20/19202
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Use the DVB Electronic Programme Guide retrieved over the air. At least, that's the way we'd do things in Europe.
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Re:If you're worried about artificial limitations. (Score:4, Informative)
PSIP (Program and System Information Protocol) PSIP is a standard set by the ATSC that provides a methodology for transporting DTV system information and electronic program guide data. It allows broadcasters to identify themselves when you tune their channel. It can be information such as call letters and channel number. It can also convey up to 16 days of programming information. Consumer receiver manufacturers can use PSIP data to display interactive program guides to aid navigation of channels in the DTV receiver.
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Not as cheap as a DVR, but no subscription.
Of course, this misses one huge hidden cost .... electricity.
.150kW * 24 hr * 365 days * $.15 kWh / 12 mo = $16.425 / mo
Most embedded boxes (Cable set-top DVRs, Tivo, etc) are built using specialized components and consume much less power than a home-built MythTV unit.
I've done a few tests with various units (Comcast DVR, Tivo, Myth box) and found there is about a 150W difference between home-brew and embedded.
So the electricity for that that "free" MythTV box actually costs $16.43 more per month than a e
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Firstly, I don't know how you can say that, considering "home brewed" systems vary.
Second, according to http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/cost.html [michaelbluejay.com] , "The average cost of residential electricity was 9.86/kWh in the U.S. in March 2006." The 3 highest rates rates were "12 in California, 14.314 in New Yo
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Not to mention that there are now purpose-built devices for that, such as the AppleTV, Slingbox, etc. You just have to do some research to find one that works with MythTV.
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use a very efficient client based around VIA/mini-itx for the frontend, which is still a bit more than a set top box, but is still an improvement.
Not to mention that there are now purpose-built devices for that, such as the AppleTV, Slingbox, etc. You just have to do some research to find one that works with MythTV.
My understanding of the Slingbox is that it's a back-end device. It connects to your cable, etc and then streams to other devices, like a cell phone or pc. Am I missing something?
I ended up getting a Buffalo LinkTheater. To use it with MythTV all you would need to do is run a DLNA daemon to serve the video directory.
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Here I thought the point of having a DVR was to record all the stuff you couldn't watch because you were asleep or at work. I guess I've been doing it wrong all this time!
Anyway, it's not like Tivos don't have power buttons. The same power saving techniques you could use on a PC could also be used on a 'traditional' DVRs, so you still end up using more electricity with a
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my mythtv box (knoppmyth actually as I'm lazy and have enough debian machines to maintain) turns itself ON and OFF as needed to record whatever shows are scheduled. It generally spends between 0 and 4 hours a day ON (including watching time... turns out most of the shows we record are being recorded at the same time we're watching pre-recorded shows).
but that's just me.
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Plenty of nice-looking HTPC cases out there (Score:4, Informative)
Just so you know...
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Yes it would be expensive, but you could probably replace one of your other devices with it.
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I'm using an old Shuttle SK43G (silver) which looks fine in the living room. A slightly more pertinent concern is finding a unit with a quiet fan for the living room.
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Two Box Approach (Score:2)
The HTPC contains digital tuners and big honkin' hard d
Re:If you're worried about artificial limitations. (Score:5, Informative)
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* WMC is really nice
* I don't have to learn to use another OS to use it
Re:If you're worried about artificial limitations. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:If you're worried about artificial limitations. (Score:1, Informative)
Re:If you're worried about artificial limitations. (Score:2)
I bought a ReplayTV 4500 [wikipedia.org] on eBay for around $200. There's no way I could have built a rig myself that inexpensively which does everything the ReplayTV does. Sure, they're not making the hardware any longer, but it did come with lifetime activation, worth $299. The company is still in business, but no longer selling hardware; they have ReplayPC now which I think is around $50 plus $20 per year, not a bad solution either if you're building (but if you're building you might as well go with Myth).
I absolut
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Thanks!
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Re:If you're worried about artificial limitations. (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sorry but I've got to ask the question: How many years since the last time you used MythTV? I find MythTV very easy to use[1].
I run a shared backend and frontend on my Athlon 2000 server which has 3 tuners. When I have 3 recordings active it takes a couple of seconds to start playing a video but other than that..
My DVB-T recordings come out as bog standard MPEG-2 files. If you're using analog tuners, there are tools available to transcode the Nupple format. mythtranscode even comes with MythTV and has a GUI frontend called MythArchive that can even burn video DVDs.
I'm running the MePo Theme [comcast.net] on my frontend and I love it.
This is a gross exaggeration. See the screenshots linked to above. "Media Library" contains "Watch Recordings" which is for TV recordings (third screenshot) and the next item down is "Watch Videos" which lists all my XviD, VIDEO_TS, etc files as they are laid out on disk from my file server (which happens to be the same box).
Press the back button twice (once to leave Videos, again to return to Main Menu). Or if you have spare keys on your remote, you can bind buttons to jump straight to whatever screen you want.
[1] Yes it is harder to setup than some other solutions and there's far more configuration options that can be a bit confusing (hint: defaults are generally fine).
If you can get your tuners working (I'll assume DVB tuners) in Xine or similiar or even just scanning correctly (tzap, scan), it's an apt-get and 10 minutes of configuring your channels and playing with some preferences to suit your taste. There's many howtos out there on how to do all this.
</rant>
Edit: I forgot the obligatory "I know I'm going to be modded down for this"Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
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Try installing OS X in a Virtual Machine.
Other options... (Score:4, Informative)
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If I were to build one today, I'd buy one of the media extenders instead of building a whole box. Cheaper (provided you already have another computer and a network in the house)and quiet.
Missing Information... (Score:5, Informative)
eg here in the UK we have freeeview, which is just a brand name for free-to-air terrestrial digital television, and many DVR/PVRs over here are built with this in mind.
But I have no idea what the situatuion is with non-subscription television services in other countries
For those in the UK... (Score:1)
I'm a BT internet subscriber and got my Freeview-supporting DVR from BT a few months ago for £90 installation fee (the box was free), but apparently there will be a self-install option later this year that will bring the cost down to about £30.
The BT solution also connects to your DSL line and allows on-demand (pay-per-view or subscription) viewing of TV and Movie c
Plenty of choice out there (Score:5, Informative)
I use a MythTV [mythtv.org] box which was fairly hard to get working but is simple to use. It can change channels on my Sky Digibox so I can record shows automatically using the built in TV guide. I can archive recordings to DVD or play back DVD's on the same box. It cost around £400 (GBP) to build 2 years ago, with a lot of the money going on a Hauppauge PVR-350 [hauppauge.co.uk] card and a small form factor case.
I've also bought a Pioneer DVR for my father in law, the DVR-540HX-S with 160GB hard drive [amazon.co.uk], this was much the same price and does almost as much as the MythTV box including controlling a Sky box. It's also quieter and lacks the initial setup complexity of the Myth box (meaning less support for me!).
If you want total simplicity go for the prebuilt DVR - for total control it has to be MythTV
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Sounds like there would be a market for them.
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As mentioned in the first thread, Mythic.TV sells the Dragon. It's a fully working computer and MythTV setup in a HTPC form factor (looks like a piece of stereo equipment) that is based on KnoppMyth. It's pretty nice looking and is apparently very quiet. It's pricey though (over $1k), but all the hard work has been done for you. A great way to make MythTV accessible to those who don't have the Linux know-how.
Personally, I really enjoyed building my MythTV system. For me, it's always an ongoin
Clarify your question (Score:2, Insightful)
I know all about Myth / ATI MMC / Beyond TV etc, but I too would like to know about STANDALONE boxes, which have nothing to do with a PC.
What's out there? Whats good?
Re:Clarify your question (Score:4, Informative)
Mod parent up (Score:2)
There's less traffic in Digitalspy's PVR forums than there used to be, but it's still useful.
Also check links and reviews here:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/technology/dvrs/review s/ [digitalspy.co.uk]
and:
http://www.pvrjunction.co.uk/compare/ [pvrjunction.co.uk]
Dreambox (Score:3, Informative)
They run Linux and the top-of-the-line model even features interchangeable receivers in case you'll ever need to switch from cable to sat or vice versa.
The box is not quite cheap, but it's a nice thing to have if you don't want to set up a PC for this stuff--it just does what it's supposed to do.
The only problem I've been having is the menu structure, which is--as most of the time with utterly complex gadgetry--way too crowded to be even somewhat intuitive. Luckily, there's a web interface, allowing you to configure and organize movies from your PC.
PVR (Score:1)
Hmm, tough choice... (Score:5, Insightful)
Decisions, decisions.
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Here in the UK we don't get Tivo anymore but I can buy a freeview-based PVR (with 7-day EPG and 160gig HDD) for £180. Of course thats bought outright, theres no subsequent subscription costs.
Or I can build a MythTV box with dual tuners and lots of processing power and RAM and a half-terabyte of storage for £300. And thats with sticking it in a non-hideous case (in my case I'm using an Antec NSK1300) :)
Re:Hmm, tough choice... (Score:4, Insightful)
$1000 PC?
Who pays 1000 dollars for a PC? I paid less for my gaming rig! All you need for a MythTV is a 1 GHz pc with 256MB of ram. I could find that in the garbage these days. All you need then is a 80 dollar PVR-150 and a video card with an S-video out. Storage is about a gig an hour for mpeg2 files. Besides Tivo costs 20 bucks a month for the subscription. Once I pay for the computer I'm done.
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HTPC case, IR remote integrated, display (VFD) integrated, $300. Note that the VFD/IR is over $100 by itself -- and the case has to be "living room acceptable".
Power supply - main characteristic - QUIET. $40.
Mainboard. Note that we are using this for (potentially) running multiple HD streams, and transcoding HD, so Athlon X2, and 2GB (dual channel) memory. 4 PCI slots, 1 PCIe. $100 for the mainboard/processor, $60 for memory.
SD (standard def)
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SD (standard def) TV. Dual tuner - $140 (with hardware MPEG-2 encode).
QAM/ATSC HD tuner - $80.
Suitable video card (full HD output) - $150
Could you post which video cards you find preferable for these (tuners and HD output)? I'd be interested to know what you use for the above.
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I prefer Kworld ATSC tuner (model 110), and Adaptec hardware SD tuner (hardware MPEG2 encode). The Adaptec simply because I got a load of them cheap. There is a dual SD hardware tuner available (Hauppauge model PVR-500) that comes without a remote (because the remote is integrated into the case. I also use these.
For video out, I use ATI x700 or better, or NVIDEO 6800 (or 5200 if HDTV output isn't needed -- quality SD output at a very good price point).
Look for passive cooling on the vide
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no subscription takes out the advantages (Score:5, Insightful)
If you buy a DVR without a subscription, and use it as a solid state VCR, you take away everything that's remotely advantageous of having a DVR, in my opinion.
Season Pass (or the equivalent) makes recording all new showings of your favorite programs hassle free. If you're using it as a VCR, and the show ends up swapping time slots without your knowledge (you're probably ffwing through commercials that would warn you...) you risk missing the show in it's new time slot. Or if it's pre-empted by another program, or delayed, etc.
If you're not looking to pay a subscription, just download the shows off bittorrent or usenet.
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My Tivo is sitting gathering dust because it won't change channels reliably on my hd receiver, so I dunno if they've updated the software recently.
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In my opinion, it's remotely advantageous to be able to record more than fits on a videotape or DVD without manually swapping. The ability to archive recordings on a separate file server, which some DVRs offer, is also remotely advantageous.
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Wha? Certainly with MythTV, you just say "record any time on any channel" and "only new showings", and you'll never miss an episode. I ass
I am also in the same shoe. (Score:2)
I was thinking of getting a DVD recorder, but I heard it is not very good because it skips or something? Also, short recording time especia
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Simple, then. You go and buy a hardware PVR from Best Buy or Circuit City (or wherever). There are models from Pioneer, Samsung, JVC, etc. (all the usual suspects): when you're ready, read up on the models and choose the one that best suits your needs at that time. As a bonus, you'll probably be able to get one with a DVD recorder for not that much more, so you'll have both options.
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It's cool because I can play the DVDs in my laptop with Xine.
Which country? (Score:2)
For example Samsung [samsung.com] has quite a few, but I don't know whether they sell them only in Europe (PAL) or in other places as well. There's several other brands that sell 'em too, e.g. Sony.
Pay attention to such things as: does it support an electronic program guide (and will this work with your cable pro
OnAir (Score:2)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=6
I tend to find with most AV questions, if I just cruise AVSforum long enough I find the best of breed and a long list of posts praising it. Such is the case here.
Absolute minimum PVR (Score:1)
Forget about Zap2It (Score:1)
This might be a stretch (Score:2)
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You can also buy the 622 HD DVR (300 hours standard recording, 30 hours of HD content) off of e-bay for around $300 so it is considerably cheaper than the MythTV solution or buying the HD TIVO ($799.99 from them directly).
Now I guess "satellite" does count as a subscription, but you have to get the channels somehow, right?
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Yes, and most use crappy Scientific Atlanta boxes, or slightly less crappy Motorola boxes. If you're okay with that, then more power to ya, but I'm not.
2) Unit is under warranty, and is replaced free, in your home,
Unfortunately, in the case of the cableco DVRs, from what I've heard you need this - I've heard of so many people with them that have ha
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DVR for PC (Score:1)
Oh Oh, Read Me! (Score:1, Informative)
Go here http://justdeals.com/Items/gs_ptv100 [justdeals.com]? and get yourself a series 1 Tivo. $60
Buy a big IDE hard drive from newegg.com $50 - $??
Buy some DIY software from http://www.9thtee.com/tivo-instantcake.htm [9thtee.com]. $20
The Series 1 Tivo does not require a subscription to work. You can schedule recordings for a channel, time, and duration. So now you have a piece of hardware built just for recording TV without a monthly fee. In the future if you decide to subscr
Consider replacable media (Score:4, Interesting)
Any argument about DivX vs. another format is moot unless there's another format being built into home replaceable media recorders. And as for the false permanence of DVDs, if you follow the listing at http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=178622 [cdfreaks.com] you can get media that lasts 10 times longer than the commonly available 2 to 3 year lifetime disks.
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DVR cable box (Score:2)
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Some pitfalls of rolling your own (Score:5, Informative)
If you want a completely compatible DVR, then you really need to go with one supplied from your Cable or Satellite provider. Of course, that goes against your "no subscription" requirements. You typically have to pay a subscription, and you cannot typically "do anything" with the recordings other than watching them (like transcoding to an iPod, burning to DVD, etc.) But you do get 100% compatibility. And if you want to record HD content, be prepared for disappointment. Unless you use a cable or satellite provided DVR, you WILL NOT be able to record most Cable or Satellite HD content without their proprietary DVR's. There really is no exception to this (in the consumer-level price range.) If you have local broadcast HD content or unencrypted HD content over cable (satellite encrypts it all) you will NOT be able to (inexpensively or easily) roll your own HD DVR for recording. The excellent HDHomeRun [www.silicondust] box does a fantastic job of providing recordable content to such PC-based DVR's but it requires "clear" signals--no premiums, unless your cable company inadvertently leaves them unencrypted. And though HDHomeRun is an excellent product, it's certainly not Joe Sixpack-friendly.
I have an amazing SageTV setup that the wife just LOVES, but I dread the day when I have to switch from cable to DirecTV (which may be sooner than later) because of the technical tweaking and changes I'll need to make to accommodate multiple DirecTV receivers. And, of course, we will NOT be able to record HD. That will have to be done with a DirecTV HD DVR.
For me, it was all about features, so we weer willing to incur extra cost, but if it's about the cost, then you really need to assess which is more economical. So, calculate how much it will cost you to build a subscription-free setup, and then amortize that cost over say, two or three years, and see which is cheaper, the home-built subscription-free DVR, or a subscription.
Pay TV (Score:2)
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