Is the Dell XPS One Better than the Apple iMac? 627
An anonymous reader writes "The Apple iMac is probably the standard all-in-one desktop computer. Great operating system, built-in software and design around solid, but pretty normal, hardware guts. According to Walter Mossberg, there's a new kid in town that not only matches it but is 'sightly ahead': the Dell XPS One. His latest review is already causing the usual suspects to weigh in. Mossberg says it is a better machine, but Vista and its built-in software make it inferior than Apple iMac's Leopard and iLife suite. Would you choose the better hardware of the Dell XPS One -which is more expensive- or the elegant design and software of the Apple iMac?"
Personally? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Buy a Mac. (Score:5, Insightful)
I just told my father to get a Mac.
He is tired of the security problems with his PCs. He has 3 PCs right now. One at his home here, one at his place in North Georgia, and a Laptop.
All he uses his computer for is Email, digital pictures, and paying bills on line.
I could set him up with Ubuntu but where would he find support for it when I am not around? I don't know how good Dell is at Ubuntu support and frankly he isn't the most technical person on the planet.
Apple has figured out what most people want to do with a PC at home and produce a nice bundle that just works.
Hardware? (Score:5, Insightful)
Choose the best tool for the job. If you'll be more productive with OS X, and you're only choosing between these two systems, then obviously choose the iMac.
I'll Take the iMac (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? Because the iMac comes with Leopard and the Dell comes with Vista. I have been recommending Macs to everyone now that they contain Intel chips. You can buy a Mac and if you hate OS X, you can just install Windows or Linux. You can't install OS X after you realized Windows Vista sucks on your brand new Dell.
With Boot Camp - although I prefer VMware for my legacy windows needs - you are guaranteed a machine with excellent Windows driver support. Apple provides all the drivers you need right on the Leopard DVD.
Want to try something new and have a perfect fallback plan if you hate your new OS? You get the iMac. If you buy the Dell and hate Vista you're out of luck unless you find a Linux distro the suits your needs. Unfortunately, as a Linux user since the mid-90's, I still can't recommend it as a viable home desktop alternative for most people I know.
Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
The hardware only needs to be fast enough... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My experience (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hmm... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:"Standard all-in-one desktop computer?" (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Personally? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Personally? (Score:2, Insightful)
I miss it when I had linux as my main server/desktop and another PC running windows for everything else. The style of the Mac is nice, but it's skin deep. In the end I see it usually getting in my way and me trying to think of how to work around the problem since I just spent so much money trying to immerse myself in this great mac experience. For proprietary software, there's nothing on the Mac that I use that isn't also on Windows. I know Windows suffers malware trouble, but realistically it is possible and actually pretty easy to run a clean Windows machine.
So at least from my experience (and BTW did I mention I hate finder and iTunes too?)... Skip the Mac. If you're a techie nerd, skip the all-in-one, or consider carefully before you jump on it. If it breaks, the whole unit has to go back, if you upgrade you lose the display too, and at least in the case of the iMac, there are no additional inputs for the display. Normal monitors now come with 2 DVI, HDMI, composite, and other inputs. That means you can plug in 2 computers, PS3, or TV and stuff into the display and use it for more than just your desktop. I think for as much as I spent on my Mac I should be happy with it. Sucks to be me since I'm not. I'm not saying it's horrible either, but some of the Apple ways of doing things just don't do it for me and I often times don't have an option or a convenient option as a work around. There's just enough minor things that don't quite work as expected it makes me dream about the kind of PC(s) I could have been running if I had gone the other route. I'll never buy a Mac again. Big $3000 or maybe a bit more w/ software and addons OOOOOPS...
Re:"Standard all-in-one desktop computer?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Personally? (Score:3, Insightful)
I know it's almost hopeless but I still continue to wish for a regular little tower from Apple with a decent (and upgradeable) graphics card, a single Core 2 Duo processor, and a decent sized SATA drive (500gb?), with no monitor duct taped on. Put those out for around $899 and I'll be ready to jump on the Apple (hardware - I already run OS X on a homebuilt machine) bandwagon.
Re:My Choice (Score:5, Insightful)
In this case, Dell has proven they care what the customer says, but if it comes down to the OS, I'll go with Apple. They have been known to listen to the customer at least once in a while. Microsoft? Vista was all about telling customers what they wanted instead of listening to them and the rest of the world (which explains the YouTube videos of Gates showing off features and being asked if they weren't the same as what Mac had already and Gates not realizing it).
Personally, I hope MS ends up having as many problems as the American car makers did back in the 70's and 80's. Then they'll either end up as a has been or learn to listen to customers instead of telling customers what they should want.
Interesting comparison to cars. (Score:4, Insightful)
That also brings into point my first consideration. I remember back in the 70's or 80's when a lot of the American car companies were having trouble because of the new Japanese models. American companies kept putting out more and more of what they wanted the public to buy and the Japanese companies were finding out what sold and focusing on that. It was only when American companies began to realize what was going on that they started listening to customers instead of telling them what was good or desirable.
American car companies still haven't learned the lessons form the '70s and '80s. They still refuse to produce fuel efficient autos. Though there are more flex fuel [wikipedia.org] American autos where are the hybrid and all electric vehicles? GM withdrew the one all electric vehicle they had, the EV1 [wikipedia.org] while there was a waiting list of people wanting to buy, or lease as GM was only leasing them, one.
FalconRe:Personally? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Buy a Mac. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sure most people would rather buy a machine and have it be able to access the internet securely out of the box and take full advantage of all the performance they paid for.
Nowhere in the ads for the machine did it say:
* Knowledge of how to obtain, install and maintain third party security applications required.
** Due to background security software, actual system will be slower than advertised.
are Macs or PC cheaper? (Score:5, Insightful)
On a side note, I can't believe I just made an argument that a Mac was cheaper from a hardware standpoint.
*head asplode*
Depending on what the configuration is some Macs are cheaper than equivalent Windows PC. this has been true for a few years. The key though is that you have to start with a Mac then configure a Windows PC to the same specs as Apple doesn't offer nearly as many configurations as PC OEMs.
FalconiMac 2.0 has 2X cache than Dell 2.2 (Score:4, Insightful)
The Dells have either a E4500 or E6550
2.2 GHz clock / 2 MB cache / 800 MHz FSB
2.33 GHz / 4 MB / 1333 MHz
All ship with only 667 MHz DIMMs
Intel's mobile processor page [intel.com]
The iMacs have either a T7300, T7700, or X7900.
2.0 GHz / 4 MB / 800 MHz
2.4 GHz / 4 MB / 800 MHz
2.8 GHz / 4 MB / 800 MHz
All ship with only 667MHz SO-DIMMS
BTW, if a 128MB 2400XT is a joke, then WTF do you call integrated video?
The highest specced XPS ONEs have Mobility Radeon HD 2400's [amd.com], memory is unlisted
while BASE iMacs have Mobility? Radeon HD 2400 XT's [amd.com] with 128MB GDDR3
The highest end iMacs have Mobility? Radeon HD 2600 PROs with 256MB GDDR3.
The iMac has better specs, flat out. It most likely uses a lot less power and weighs less also. The XPS ONE is a very well integrated _PC_ for sure, and has other nice features the iMac doesn't. I think Dell did a great job with the hardware integration and bundled features, and it is somewhat on par with the iMacs, IF you leave Leopard and iLife out of the picture anyway.
Personally, those speakers have got to go!
all-in-ones or laptops (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, I know Apple makes laptops too. I have no problem with them if you're a Mac person. I just don't "get" the whole category of computers that the iMac and XPS One fit into. What is it, the bigger screen vs. a laptop? Hell, you could buy a laptop *and* a 24" LCD screen for less than an XPS One, and then you'd have a really nice computer with the same huge screen *and* it'd be fully portable!
I agree compeatly. A laptop is a terrific all-in-one and if you want a larger monitor get one.
FalconI choose the Dell XPS One. (Score:3, Insightful)
If I'm going to have to throw the whole thing out once it becomes obsolete, I'm going to buy the one that's going to last the longest.
If I were to go strictly on how long it would last I'd have to pick the iMac. I bought 2 Macs that were about 3 years old when I bought them. The first one I got 1992, it lasted until 2000. The second I got in 2000 a few months after the first one died, it died in 2006. During the same tyme I bought 2 brand new Windows PCs. In the first year the hdd and the motherboard had to be replaced on both. And because of OS crashes I had to reinstall Windows on both a bunch of tymes.
Oh, and the PCs were major brands. The first was a Gateway and the second was an HP.
FalconRe:Interesting comparison to cars. (Score:4, Insightful)
"Flex fuel" is bullshit. All it means is that they use slightly better rubber hoses and have extra programming in the ECU. It doesn't actually help anything (at least not until ethanol from sources other than corn is widely available); it's just a way for US auto makers (in collusion with the corn lobby) to weasel out of real improvements!
Re:My Choice (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and this goes double for our own machines. If I've just spent 8+ hours making sure some company's computers work, the last thing I want to do when i get home is tinker with my own.
Please don't group us with gamers.
The right tool for the job IMHO (Score:2, Insightful)
For example, thus far those modded up to the limelight regarding Macs are certainly right about how easy it is to use especially for older folks. However, have you ever tried to get a retiree in their 50s used to working on Windows their whole lives to use a Mac? Heck they don't want to learn anything new much less a completely new operating system regardless of how much safer or easier it is over time. I know a number of people who tried because they were told it'd be incredibly easy but it really isn't for many. Buying a Mac and booting Windows is not necessarily the ideal solution either as perhaps they'd loose out on the benefit of their wiz-kid grandson who lives nearby and loves canabolizing HPs or something.
The most important step in educating consumers on computer purchasing I think is first to get folks to understand that comparing Macs and Windows-based PCs is like comparing apples and oranges (no pun intended.) Sure they're both fruit and if you're hungry both will do the job. But if you know nothing of what an apple or orange is but hate tangerines, peeling things, have a vitamin C deficiency and countless other specifics aren't introduced into the decision then you'll have a less than optimal outcome at best.
Also, computers to some degree are luxury items and thus a qualitative analysis of price I think further confuses folks in what's an already nebulous situation. Someone may laugh at the $100 difference between the two machines Walt compared but would clearly go with the cheapest if not properly informed about the dramatic differences in the experience they'd have with each. Wouldn't you buy the cheaper hammer if both appeared and were proposed to you as being the same?
As with buying a car and many other items one needs to find out about their past experiences, current needs, customer support and product life expectations and a number of other particulars to find the ideal solution. I even see grandmas do so with power tools in Home Depot worth a fraction of the cost of a new computer but with computers uneducated folks are overwhelmed... and we're not helping matters with over-simplifications.
Re:Hmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now if I were to say
"The Mac doesn't come with a TV tuner. That's because people who like iMacs are too busy taking it up the ass to bother watching TV."
While equally as informative and slightly more inflammatory (I almost rather be accused of being gay then be accussed of frequently watching Fox news, however), this post will be modded either troll or flamebait (assuming a few moderators see this) not because of the lack of information or the inflammatory remark, but simply because I said something mean about mac users. We might as well just add a "-1, Anti-Mac, Anti-Nintendo, Pro-Microsoft" at least then moderators can be honest why they are modding something down.
Another caveat (Score:3, Insightful)
The budget crowd is probably the BIGGEST group of consumers, and for these people Apple is still nowhere near competitive. That's not necessarily a bad thing, mind you--in my opinion, Apple SHOULDN'T be cutting any corners trying to offer a bargain-basement option--but it's still something the fanboys tend to neglect when they spout off about how "Macs are cheaper now!!!!!!!!!". No, they aren't. They're arguably cheaper for a very specific middle-of-the-road, I'm-not-ever-going-to-bother-building-my-own minority market segment. But, the thing is, Macs weren't designed to compete with PC's cost-effective hardware... it was designed to be a cohesive hardware + software package, and in this regard they blow away Windows entirely.