When Are Kids Old Enough to Play Videogames? 503
A piece at the MTV Multiplayer blog is exploring the issue of kids and gaming, wondering aloud how old is 'old enough'. A recent CES talk indicated that you should wait until at least seven to introduce your children to Mario, and we've talked in the past about the educational role games can have. MTV's Tracey John spoke to a pair of mothers who offered their own opinions on this topic: "When I asked Alisa why she thought that games weren't imaginative and explained that many games have challenging, puzzle-solving elements, she conceded a little but remained skeptical. 'Honestly, I haven't really explored video games thoroughly, and I'm sure there are video games that fit more the bill of something that I'd be interested in, but I'm kind of hard-pressed to find a game that's like reading a book or something like that. I understand the kids like it, so I allow them to do it; it's monitored but it's not my favorite thing for them to be doing.'" What's the right age for a kid to start playing games? Do you see games as more or less acceptable than traditional kid pastimes like TV or reading? Does it matter if the parents are gaming-savvy?
They are old enough when... (Score:5, Insightful)
Take some responsibility for your kids, parents, it doesn't hurt as bad as you might think.
As soon as they're interested (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is TV OK but games aren't? (Score:5, Insightful)
Just as I wouldn't expose a child to the "Saw" series I probably wouldn't give them GTA or some of the more gory games either. So why is there such an uproar about the latter, but not the former? It's just plain ignorance.
Oblig Mitch (Score:5, Insightful)
Whether a child is "Ready" for such things isnt something that can really be generalized. It really depends on each individual child, their ability to see the difference between reality and escapism, and their desire to make use of this kind of media.
Re:ignorant (Score:5, Insightful)
I would find it hard to make the argument that games will ever "equal" books, for the same reason that movie versions of books often don't live up to the original books.
Books require a lot more imagination than games or movies because you have to infer what the people/places/things in the book look/act like based off of the descriptions.
That being said, I think it is hard to compare the three. A book like Hitchhikers Guide would make a poor game (IMO). A game like Metal Gear would make a poor movie (IMO). A game like Bioshock would make a poor book (IMO). But each of those excel at what medium they actually are expressed in.
Re:As soon as they're interested (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the key to both activities is adult interaction. With my 4-year-old, he plays some strategy games on the computer, and I explain a little about what is going on and why. When I am at work, he will play around and show me what he has come up with, and sometimes I am impressed what his little mind comes up with. I think if he were just left on his own mashing buttons, he'd get little out of it (now when the little booger can beat me at the games, it won't be so cute ). Same with TV shows. If you find educational programming and spend time discussing and applying it, then it can be useful. You don't even want to know how many life lessons you can get from Thomas the Tank Engine!
Old enough? (Score:4, Insightful)
I think any time a child shows interest in any activity, as long as it's monitored and moderated, they should be allowed to do it. And as far as how it compares to the TV; games are more like books that a child can play. I personally think they rank right up there with books as far as importance in this day and age ( note that this means if my daughter plays games for an hour, we read for an hour too ).
Depends on what the game teaches (Score:5, Insightful)
Games like the traditional JRPG or most MMORPGs probably shouldn't be played by children, as they teach that the way to succeed is not to improve your own skills, but to put in a lot of time leveling up. This perspective will be useless in the real world unless they get one of the few seniority-based union jobs.
This sort of philosophical distinction is seldom appreciated in discussions of children and video games, being drowned out by a debate centered on violence, but I think that in a long-term sense it's a much more important consideration.
Re:They can play them when... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:ignorant (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well I was... (Score:3, Insightful)
Television?! (Score:3, Insightful)
What I haven't seen anyone mention yet... (Score:2, Insightful)
video games are like french fries (Score:3, Insightful)
They're an entertaining diversion that, while not inherently destructive, can be damaging when eaten to excess or in place of other foods. I'm giving games the benefit of the doubt and assuming we're talking about age-appropriate titles and not GTA. Some games have puzzles, but it's nothing compared to, say, playing a strategy board game, doing a crossword puzzle, playing chess, etc. And games do little to enhance verbal ability, unlike reading. If you want to develop fine motor skills, why not take up billiards, foosball, table tennis, golf, etc.
Just like eating one serving of fries isn't going to kill you, neither will playing a moderate amount of games rot a kid's brain. But if he eats fries five times a day and consequently skips the vegetables and fruit...there will be consequences. Also, just like fries (and other unhealthy foods) games can be quite addictive.
Real issue: when are kids a "target group" (Score:3, Insightful)
The lack of games actually targeted towards 2-7 year old kids is a much bigger problem IMHO.
I am a 34 year old gamer, and I have a 2½ year old daughter. I have tried on countless occasions to teach her how to play games (on our PC, Mac, Xbox PS2, DS) but most of the games are either too abstract or too advanced for her. Keep in mind that something as simple as "shooting" is a rather advanced concept for a 2-year old girl, and that "death" or "number of lives" can be a hard thing to teach a kid that age.
The real question is not "when are kids old enough to play videogames" but rather: "when are they old enough to become a target group" in the videogame industry,
Today's games are ill suited for very small kids - not because games in general are bad for kids - but simply because the lack of demand for such videogames has resulted in the absolute absence of suitable games for kids of that age!
- Jesper
(And BTW: suggestions on good games for a 2½ year old girl are welcome...)
Re:ignorant (Score:5, Insightful)
I know that i got into computer because of video games. I played console games but when my parents got a PC i was determined to play games on it. The drive i had to actually use the computer enabled me to learn my way around the OS when i couldn't figure something out. If there was noting interesting on the computer for me i would have not used it when it wasn't working. Instead i learned how to fix any problem on a computer myself, something i am very happy i know how to do for myself today.
moderation and good sense (Score:5, Insightful)
In the meantime
Games have their place, just like anything else (including computers; she can't type yet, but she can navigate her favorite educational websites just fine). They're no more or less dangerous to kids' development than Baby Einstein videos, or educational TV, or pop-up books, or [insert controversial newfangled technology here].
The key here, as with everything else in life, is moderation and good sense.
Re:Old enough? (Score:2, Insightful)
Treat all media the same... (Score:2, Insightful)
My kids are 8, 5, and 2. We like to make sure they get a balance of human interaction and physical activity, but once they've done that, there's nothing wrong with them spending 30 minutes or so playing Mario on the Wii, or watching TV.
Re:Depends on what the game teaches (Score:3, Insightful)
Just like real life.
Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:5, Insightful)
Just one man's view (Score:3, Insightful)
That is relatively close to my timeline, except I was raised by hippies. None of this coddling, think of the children BS. I was taught right and wrong, the differences between fantasy/fiction/reality, that I could say or do anything as long as it did not hurt another person, and that a person's word should never be broken. I was let into the real world.
That being said, I grew up cussing, watching what ever tv program I wished (not based on ratings), playing any make-believe game I could think of no matter the content, asking to be taught math, playing chess or checkers, reading/having REAL books read to me, realizing sex would eventually happen and it's natural, watching/being told family pets die, burying dead pets, watching/being told family members die, knowing not to steal but knowing I easily could, etc.
Sure, I am not "Normal" - but when I look at how my friend's families are, and how "Normal" people act or (don't) think - I'm ecstatic about my childhood.
We are not two separate species. There is not Homo sapien youngus and Homo sapien adultus, there is no age where suddenly we naturally understand the world. We learn through knowledge and experience. I understood more than my friends/classmates simply because I had started learning (just about everything) at an earlier age!
What I'm saying is, let go of most of the control! Don't try to create a list of the only things little junior is allowed to do/try. Sure you'll take out all the bad things, but you'll also miss most of the good. Sure, he'll specialize in hop-scotch, tag, pong, and super mario brothers... but he'll completely miss out on everything else - everything that will eventually be important to him, become his real life.
Harmless? No, I'll give you that. There is almost nothing, from tv to video games to books to playing with the neighbor, that is harmless. The trick isn't protecting your child from harmful materials, but teaching them how they should act and think about those materials in a non-harmful way.
Two years old (Score:5, Insightful)
While visiting a zoo one day, they had a Fisher Price exhibit and he tried out the SmartCycle. The lady there was amazed that he picked up on all of the controls almost instantly. (He seems to have inherited his daddy's knack for computers.) In December, he got the SmartCycle as a present and loves pedaling, choosing which games to play, and playing all of the games that we've bought him. He doesn't need anyone to show him how something works. He just does it once or twice and figures it out.
Sure, the video games he's playing are educational in nature and not Super Mario Brothers-type games (much less Grand Theft Auto-type games), but I think introducing computers to toddlers is important. Just make sure to balance their activities out.
Re:ignorant (Score:3, Insightful)
Games are just a new form of media, and should be treated as such. If your kid never goes outside and gets exercise because s/he's always reading a book, that's just as unhealthy as if they were always playing a video game, or always watching TV, or whatever. Balance and moderation are the key, as well as maturity. Just like driver's licenses, even though the law says 16, I knew some kids who I would trust driving at 14, and I know some 40 year olds and it scares the hell out of me that they still have their licenses.
Re:They are old enough when... (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyways well put.
Re:TV (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems to me that the best thing to do is supply a kid with a variety of activities that are consistent with the way the parent wishes to rear the child. Books that age appropriate and teach the values of the parent. Physical toys that are age appropriate and expose the child to the norms that are expected of the parent.
Video games are no different. if the child does not have the hand coordination, the game will be useless. if the child does not understand the strategy, same thing. If the game depends on teamwork, and the child is still playing along instead of playing with, the game will not be useful. In the end, however, functioning in this world does depend on a high competence interacting with computers, so learning to interact sooner rather than later is probably a good thing.
OTOH, I notice that kids have such a myopic view of computers, as a device to consume games and prefab content from internet, that some of then have a very hard time treating the computer as a creative device. It is nice that they can pick up the technical aspects of the computer, but the overwhelming default use is as a television. I must say I miss the days when all I had was a bunch of sticks, or at most a bunch of Legos, with no pre-formulated expectations of what to do with them, and could just while the afternoon creating whatever came into my scary mind.
Re:They are old enough when... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:My kids did not "start" it has just always been (Score:5, Insightful)
As these posts have shown, when the whole family is doing it's a social activity. You can all participate, share stories, reenact bits, talk strategy, etc etc. It's more social than passively sitting around a TV together, that's for sure. A really small child participating in that is just participating in the family social structure.
For a family without gaming parents, though, I can understand why there might need to be different limits. If a 5-year-old is the only person in the family playing video games, it's going to be a more isolated activity. Time they could be spending playing with their parents will be spent alone, for all intents and purposes. Sure, the parents should try to be involved in *everything* their kid does - but if the parent doesn't really understand videogames and their social potential themself, they will have a very hard time getting involved in the same way a gamer parent would. They might hover around and watch to make sure Johnny doesn't play anything violent, they might even ask questions or try to help him solve puzzles. But I'm sure it would never occur to them that even in a one-player game, two people can act as a team with the second person providing feedback and suggestions, or that they might actually have fun if they get an account on the same site and play the game alongside their kid. So without the same social element, it makes sense to have different limits.
Re:moderation and good sense (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't mod you troll - but I also don't feel any particular need to consult "experts" (aside from my folks, who have already demonstrated their wisdom and experience to me, and others who have already gained my trust) for advice. However, I also don't disregard advice from someone just because they're a stranger - wisdom can come from many places.
(infrequently found in slashdot comments though
Re:Correct Dosage, like everything else. (Score:5, Insightful)
No games really match the mindlessness portrayed of them by the media.
And one last point. Books are better for social development than a video game? Last I checked people don't tend to get together to read books, but frequently get together to play games. Either in front of one TV or over the internet using voice chat to communicate, makes little difference.
Re:Here's a hint (Score:1, Insightful)
My partner is the opposite, and she's the one who didn't touch video games.
My point is that you can find extreme's on both sides of the argument. Would things be different without the video games, I think they would but I don't blame the video games, I blame the fact that they were allowed to sit there playing only video games when they should have been developing other skills as well.
Sad really.
Re:They are old enough when... (Score:3, Insightful)
So which experts? The ones that say games are good, and the ones that say games are bad.
Never listen to what experts say. Consider what experts say. And then make your own damn decision, be responsible and accountable for your own decisions, and be proud of your own decisions.
And certainly don't let a book tell you what to do. It takes at least a year to write, edit, and publish a book -- which makes it out-dated long before you read it. Some books takes thousands of years to publish -- they're more out-dated.
What's that old radio axiom again? "If you hear it it's news, if you read it it's history."
Re:ignorant (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly! I'd wager that it was video games that got most of us computer professionals (IT, programmers, etc) into the world of computing in the first place.
Re:Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Let me answer your question with a question. (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly? Too much common sense and well-placed concern isn't fair to kids. Not letting them play games until a certain age will have a direct correlation to what friends they can possibly have at school, and that will affect other things as well. Everything parents do has a ripple effect, and the ripple effect of letting them play games so they can interact with their poorly-parented peers is better than the ripple effect of being sheltered, media-suspect hippies. Even better? Letting them play games that push the limit of good taste, and then criticising said game, and explaining your reasons. This teaches that the media is the message, and the critical thinking required to interpret the message is far better for them than telling them to avoid anything challenging or different. Ex: Is that how we treat innocent bystanders? By spraying them in the face with spray-paint? No, no it isn't. Would you like that if someone did it to you? No you wouldn't. Be like Daddy, and use your ak-47, get up close, and you'll get a one-hit headshot. Then use a vehicle you've placed close-by to escape any uniformed police officers. Head for a safehouse.
Re:Old enough? (Score:2, Insightful)
Since then, she has played other N64 games including Zelda (not very deep into that game yet), Sonic on the Dreamcast, Wii Sports, Mario Party and her current favorite: Super Mario Galaxy. She also plays on her Leapster and on the computer -- huh, that's a lot of games. It was amazing to see how quickly her skills improved. We play together - it's fun and entertaining. It builds her confidence, lets her explore and just play with another toy. If she plays too much, she throws a fit, refuses to listen -- but we limit her game time. It's a healthy part of play time during her day.
Anyway - I'd say about 4 is a good age. Watch them, set reasonable limits, play with them, let them win most of the time. Leave lots of time for other active play (tonight the favorite toy was a new top).
Kids immitate grown ups (Score:3, Insightful)
If the parents doesn't play video games, the kids won't be interested for a couple of years more, when they get playmates who play video games. I don't see any reason to introduce them to games before that, nor to stop them when they ask for it.
For pre-schoolers, you choose the games. For primary schoolers, they probably want to choose the games, but you should play the games as well. After that, general advice is more harmful than helpful. It depends too much on you and the kid.
Re:Old enough? (Score:1, Insightful)
or perhaps she just love spending time with you - and this is a way to get that time