Open US GPS Data? 327
tobiasly writes "I read an article today about a map error on the popular Garmin GPS devices which often leads to truckers in a particular town becoming trapped. From my own experience, every electronic map I've ever seen (Google, Mapquest, my Mio GPS) has the layout of my neighborhood completely and frustratingly wrong. A quick search turned up only one open-source mapping project, but it's for New Zealand only. Why are there no comparable projects in the U.S. or elsewhere? Obviously such a project would need a good peer-review/moderation/trust system but I'd gladly put in the time necessary to drive around town with my GPS in "tracking" mode, then upload, tag, and verify my local data. Has anyone with more technical knowledge in maps and auto-routing looked more into this? Are there technical limitations to such a project? Should the government subsidize a project to create open, free, up-to-date electronic maps? Surely there is a public benefit available from such a project."
Frustrating (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:open street map? (Score:4, Interesting)
Odd routing (Score:4, Interesting)
There are several interesting implications, the most obvious being "sponsored routing" down a particular street in a business dist.....gotta go, I'm on the phone with my patent attorney.
Tiger database (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/ [census.gov]
Format is a bit obscure, but it works rather ok. We were able to use the data to draw road maps and then find paths on them. I'm sure it has it's own problems too but maybe you could contact them and point out the errors.
Navteq Map Reporter (Score:1, Interesting)
Roadster - OSS Linux GPS Application (Score:1, Interesting)
http://cairographics.org/roadster/ [cairographics.org]
Here's a screenshot:
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/attachments/linux/34562d1157775234-linux-gps-roadster-roadster-0.2.4-1.png [mp3car.com]
It has data available for the united states, download, compile, and give it a shot.
So do something about it... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Odd routing (Score:3, Interesting)
The next left will add 0.3 of a mile and an extra turn to my journey but saves me dealing with that horrible intersection and is actually faster.
What I would love to see in GPS's and none of them have this feature is the ability to upload "local shortcuts", eg roads the locals know about that get you where you need to go faster but are not obvious to visitors.
Re:open street map? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Government Maps - of course (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:TomTom MapShare (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I like features like this [gizmodo.com] on TomTom, but yes, an open source database would rock. Even something that pulled from google maps would be cool, IMO, as long as google maps stays free.
Re:No? There are commercial applications... (Score:2, Interesting)
Note that Mapmakers make intentional mistakes... (Score:3, Interesting)
Folks, be aware that one way that a mapmaker "improves" on a copyright protection is to intentionally alter a small section of a map (and in a book, a few at random) that is hopefully not used. This helps them to prosecute somebody that steals the map information and resells it. Granted, this is known for hard-copy maps, but I believe it is also true for GPS maps as well (call them the "soft-copy" versions).
I can attest to this because near where my parents live on most maps there is a road that appears to go from their development right into the next one. Unfortunately, there is a gap of about 100 feet where there is no road but rather a swampy stream. And it gets better... When they were laying sewer lines, they put in in this swampy stream so that if somebody wants to extend the road they will have to build a bridge over the stream. So this would involve (and has involved) the state, county, and sewer authority determining how much each should pay.
You can guess how far this has gotten...I'm expecting it may happen when my (as yet unborn) great grandchildren reach 21 years of age...
Of course, this was the source of a lot of fun during the summer when growing up...my brother and I would sit out on the front lawn in the twilight/evening/night and watch the cars come zooming down to take the "short-cut" and then have to slam on their brakes and then back up and wander around aimlessly. Nobody ever crashed into the swamp, but one person almost hit the barrier at the end of the street.
Yes, I did call the map people (ADC) and report it several times over a decade. It's still that way in the latest edition, and I've seen the same mistake in an in-dash GPS display for the location in one car.
Guess it's now "Driver Beware"...
Story (Score:3, Interesting)
Sometimes they're easy to spot... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:open street map? (Score:5, Interesting)
Often the errors you see is because there was a planned development that never went through it they (the city/county whoever) changed the traffic flow more recently then the map data is. I found this to be the case back in 1991 when I was delivering pizzas. I grabbed a city map from a tourist booth only to find some roads didn't exist. I purchased a random McNally or whatever the name is from a gas station to find the same errors. After I went to the city engineers office looking for an accurate map, they explained this to me. It was also interesting that I would watch development projects going up and already have a map complete with street names several years after this.
If you see a map problem with any map, I would bet it is something to do with the political entity more then the map maker. It might be them in some cases but roads dead ending when they should go through a town is the cities fault. And you will likely find the same error across multiple maps.
Re:So do something about it... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:open street map? (Score:2, Interesting)
That's the difference between OpenStreetMap and many other open-source GPS projects - we can make real maps for the GPS devices instead of just collections of GPX waypoints. And seeing as all the data is available for customisation, we can do cool things like the cycle maps instead of just general (road-user orientated) ones.
Re:open street map? (Score:2, Interesting)
Fair point, but I wonder if you realise how many mistakes there are in commercial maps. OpenStreetMap is already more useful, right now, for (say) navigating along many of the Sustrans cycle routes in Britain than any printed map is. I have it loaded onto my handheld Garmin GPS and it's saved me from getting lost several times.
OpenStreetMap has also shown that, where there's a critical mass of mappers, it gets updates faster than the commercial maps. There's a lot of UK housing estates that you'll find on OSM but not on Google Maps.
Re:Frustrating (Score:3, Interesting)
What's more frustrating to me is that my street is a "Curve", not a "Street", "Lane" or some other common type. But, Google (and most others) insists that it is a "Crve" (while the official USPS abbreviation of "Curve" is "Curv"), so I have to tell people this otherwise my house doesn't exist at all.
Re:TomTom MapShare (Score:4, Interesting)
The same principle holds true for restaurants. The first couple of bucks will go into food quality and better service. There is a very real difference between a $5 hamburger meal and a $15 steak. But the next $50 will go into square plates, french accents and, of course, exclusivity in the form of missed opportunity costs. You pay for the fact that they might have sold the food to the person currently waiting at the bar.
In this light you'll probably understand how downright stupid it is to share that little known Thai restaurant behind the strip mall with the rest of the planet. Before you know it, hordes of TomTom-toting patrons will crowd your once lovely restaurant. Prices will skyrocket, portions will shrink and before you know it it will obtain a Michelin star and you will have to find somewhere else to eat.
Re:Frustrating (Score:4, Interesting)
The USA has a total of about four million miles of road. How would you go about mapping it all, and at what cost? Take a car, a driver and a passenger, the passenger having a notebook with GPS. And the notebook needs some pretty clever software. As the driver drives along, the passenger keeps track of everything that is going on - his job is to type in the name of the road, suitability for what kind of traffic, obstacles, and where you can turn. You'd probably want a separate input device for special functions, like road to the left, road to the right, or for "missed something" (the driver probably can't just stop anytime). So the software keeps building up a database, keeps track of things that are missing (if you typed in "there is a left turn here" then you'll have to follow that turn at some time).
With all overhead, you should be able to build a road map at about 10 miles per hour (less in New York, but more on country roads that stretch for miles). That is 400,000 hours. Lets say you can do 2000 hours a year, that is 200 cars driving around for a year. 400 people doing the work. If the job pays $60,000 a year, that is $24,000,000 in wages. You'd drive a total of say 12 million miles; at 100,000 miles per car that is 120 cars destroyed. Say $20,000 per car, that is $6 mil. $30 million, double it for everything I forgot, that is about $60 million to get complete road maps of the USA from scratch.
Re:Note that Mapmakers make intentional mistakes.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Having mapped a couple of square miles for OpenStreetMap [openstreetmap.org], I can attest to the fact that these alterations are incredibly common on Google Maps. There are half a dozen within half a mile of my house, most being added curves or extensions to dead-end roads and added or removed traffic islands. Google also cunningly add fake roads to the map data which correlate with features which look like roads on the satellite imagery but actually aren't - they're private drives, streams, paths rather than roads through woodland etc. The ones near me wouldn't seriously affect navigation, but some I've seen in the past would. Oh yes, Google Maps is also shifted by about 5m from WGS84 (GPS coordinates) round here, I presume this is intentional too.