What to Seek in an Older Subnotebook?

cyclomedia writes "I'm looking to buy a subnotebook. For those who think that this form factor was created by the Asus EEE (as, seemingly, does Wikipedia) it might interest you that the current forerunner in my search is a 190MHz,64MB,640x480 256 colour beastie known as the Psion Netbook, circa 2001-ish. Basically, I have a desktop, a server and an Xbox and so truly only want it for surfing, email and the odd bit of SSHing home on weekends away. The aforementioned Psion is, however, of the StrongArm processor variety, which nudges it down on the desireability meter, but the fact that there exist Wi-Fi cards for its 16-bit PCMCIA slot does score it extra points. So, anyone here got any suggestions of what to look out for on ebay? So long as I can play Doom II on it too, that is." Any other suggestions for wireless capable subnotebooks with better battery life than things like the EEE or HP's 2133 Mininote?

Budget...

[IYagami]

How much do you want to spend on it? In my opinion, I think that the new MSI Wind is a very good alternative.. if you want to spend 399$ in the Linux version and upgrade the battery to get 5.5h.

More info at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSI_Wind_PC [wikipedia.org]

12" PowerBook?

[russlar]

I had a 12" PowerBook G4 for a number of years, and would recommend it if all you need is web and SSH.

Toshiba Libretto 100CT!

[ejecta]

I was quite a fan of my Toshiba Libretto 100CT when I had it, it's quite small (210 x 132 x 35 mm) and runs a 166mhz x86 intel pentium 1 mmx. In terms of networking/usb you can use PC Card expansion slots, or get the "Mini Card" (read docking station) which gives you a usb port and more PC Card expansion slots.

Quite a nifty machine for circa 1996, problem is now they fall into the "collector" catagory so some people are paying a fortune for them on ePay.

See also: http://www.toshiba-europe.com/bv/computers/products/notebooks/libretto100ct/index.shtm [toshiba-europe.com]

libretto damn it! spell it right!

[nawcom]

Get a toshiba libretto. The last model was the U105 I believe, but there are definitely models that match your requests. I always loved those fuckers.

Here's a 110ct, something along what youre asking for: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150248931102 [ebay.com]

Heres a u105, something more up-to-date: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170217846018 [ebay.com]

I dunno, they were always perfectfor me. I especially loved them when I interfaced it with an ol' oki900. ahhh.. the AMPS days...

as, seemingly, does Wikipedia?

[Bo'Bob'O]

From Wikipedia: "Subnotebooks have been something of a niche computing product and have rarely sold in large numbers until the 2007 introduction of the Asus Eee PC and the OLPC XO-1[1], which are inexpensive in comparison to both existing machines in that form factor, and computers in general."

That sounds spot on to me. How does that sound anything like it's saying that the form factor was created by Asus? They have been around for ages, it's just in the past they either needed a special striped down OS, were incredibly expensive, had bizarre tiny screen resolutions, or they left out things like keyboards to strip them down in size. Sure NOW you can find some great second hand deals, but they couldn't have possibly been compared as anywhere on the same level in price when they were new.

In fact, the wikipeida article looks like a great list of used models to look for.

Netbook is still pretty cool, but think again!

[Qbertino]

The Netbook totally rocks. IIRC it has 40 hrs of uptime on a single battery load, which blows every protable PC (even the Transmeta Lifebooks pimped with Powerbattery and OD Battery) out of the water. But get your head straight about pocessing power and running some Linux derviate or something on it. That won't fly.

Because, allthough it is a fully fletched out business system with a neat Java 1.1 enviroment on top of some custom Epoc OS (way ahead of it's time), you can absolutely forget any more that rudymentary surfing on that thing. I strongly suggest you get the brand new and super cheap One A110 [www.one.de] and hack youself some external power option if you want to reach the Netbooks uptime.

And, yes, uptime is what I'd be looking for in any subnote who's prime purpose is to be used for generic tasks while on the road. In that respect a Netbook really is the bar. But the One A110 and the Asus EEE are the new generation (nearly 10 years newer!) and they are actually those up to the Netbook. I'd say they've re-introduced the Handheld era. Might aswell pay that respect and get one.

16 bit PC cards

[zakezuke]

...but the fact that there exist Wi-Fi cards for its 16-bit PCMCIA slot does score it extra points

You know, this is true. There are non cardbus PC cards. They are a real pain to find. If they know what they are the price goes up, but you might get lucky and find a shop with the them next to the other regular WIFI cards. You might also get lucky and find someone on craigslist who is selling one.

Why a pain? Acronym hell! PCMCIA/PCCard/CardBus. To be honest I don't know the difference between PCMCIA and PCCard (is there one?), but I sure know the difference between PCCard and Cardbus. But the problem is everything is advertised as PCCard, whether it's PCCard or Cardbus.

I still have...

[frank_adrian314159]

... my Fujitsu Lifebook P1120. Only two pounds, running W2K Pro and still works like a champ with its blazing 633MHz Transmeta Crusoe processor and 512M of RAM. Also dual boots with Ubuntu. Great little machine.

HTC Universal - a winmobile PPC which "runs Linux"

[Roman Mamedov]

Might be not quite suitable for Doom II, but HTC Universal [wikipedia.org] runs the "armel" port of Debian recently, although getting it installed still requires some familiarity with Debian and GNU/Linux in general. "Titchy Mobile will be a complete, fully-native Debian GNU/Linux distribution for the HTC Universal mobile phone, including support for GPRS/UMTS internet access, SMS, and voice calls. [neilandtheresa.co.uk]"

Sony PictureBook

[nojayuk]

They're available in various x86 processor and RAM capacities, including Transmeta CPUs; the older models (Celeron 266, PII 300) are quite cheap today. Fat battery packs are available (Sony branded ones cost serious bucks but 3rd party units are a lot cheaper) that will run to 12 hours or more uptime. Replacing the HDD with a SSD will save you more battery power. Linux is readily ported onto most of the C1 variants and they all have PCMCIA or CardBus slots to support WiFi.

The accessory I regret not getting for my old PB was a ballistic-nylon shoulder holster for carrying it around.

Mod parent up

[Joce640k]

The EEE has it all...and it's not too expensive. Getting something "a few years old" will only disappoint in the long term.

Toshiba Libretto 110CT!

[argent]

<div style="mr mom">100, 110, whatever works.</div>

The 110CT was pretty good to me for the years I had it. I think the only difference between the 100CT and 110CT was the processor speed.

Fujitsu Lifebook P-Series FTW!

[likerice]

I'm running Ubuntu 8.04 on my wife's old Fujitsu Lifebook P-Series with 1Ghz Pentium M & 512M. The battery has crapped-out after ~4yrs but it still gets ~1hr with wifi et al on full. The form-factor and build quality can't be beat.

Nokia N770 / N800 / N810

[Gyver_lb]

I have the 810 and it seems to fit the requirements (including Doom II). Depending on the time you need to spend typing at a keyboard, it may or may not be right for you (or you can choose to get a bluetooth keyboard). If you can withstand typing on a virtual keyboard or get a bluetooth keyboard, the 770 and 800 are dirt cheap on Ebay and quite capable machines (the 800 is basically a fatter 810 without keyboard and GPS and is upgradeable to the same OS version than the 810).

As a Debian-based OS runs the little buggers you probably get the largest functionnality/size ratio out there.

Re:16 bit PC cards

[Nimey]

There's no difference between PCMCIA and PC Card; the standard was officially renamed to the latter because (it was thought) it was an easier & more approachable name.

Re:Seriously?

[Slashdot Suxxors]

C'mon, don't reward those websites with ad-hits, link to the homepage for it instead [openpandora.org].

Re:Mod parent up

[kernowyon]

The EeePC will happily run Doom2, especially if you are keen enough to either set up the Advanced interface or install a different version of Linux (e.g one of the *buntu or whatever you prefer). Easy to do - just follow the EeeUser Wiki - http://wiki.eeeuser.com/ [eeeuser.com]
Use something like prboom to run your Doom2 - it works well on the EeePC.
Or even install Windows if you really must (or buy the Windows installed version)
Whist an older laptop may seem a good idea, I would be worried about the battery. Most of these old machines have batteries which have reached the end of their life and will soon crap out. Even if the machine comes with a replacement, it will most likely be a cheap copy with a poor lifespan. Not that the battery life on the EeePC is fantastic I must admit! But you can maximise it if you need to by turning down the brightness on the screen and disabling stuff like the wireless.
The EeeUser website is very useful for info regarding these machines - including modifications such as bluetooth etc for the really keen!

Sharp mm20

[mahonri5]

I used a Sharp mm20 sub-notebook for a few years in college, and it worked really well. 1 GHz transmeta, 512 MB RAM, 20 GB HD, built-in wireless and ethernet, two usb ports, 10" screen. The extended life battery gave about 7 hours of life when I stopped using it. Ran Linux great.

Great laptop till the hard drive died, after a solid 3 years of use. Then I never got around to putting in a new 1.5" HD since I really didn't need it after I graduated.

Re:I still have...

[drspliff]

I recently bought a Toshiba Portege R100, it weighs under a kilo and is thinner than any laptop in the office.

It'd been in storage for a while before being auctioned on e-bay for how much? a little over $200 for a nearly new notebook that's better better specced than the new Eee 900, lighter & as thin as the MacBook Air while being fully supported by Ubuntu.

At 1ghz with a gig of ram... it sure doesn't feel like it... Can't imagine the OP's suggestion of a ~200mhz ARM laptop being very useful, considering I bought a 400mhz iMac last year as a web-browsing & e-mail machine, which while usable is very noticeably slow and verging on unusable at times.

Re:12" PowerBook?

[gnutoo]

Powerbook G4s [wikipedia.org] go for about $600 on Ebay [ebay.com] and that sounds like a fair price and it is indeed better than you will get for all but the very best Intel based laptops from the same time period. Battery life is excellent, the screen is good and they are not too heavy. The author seems to be looking for something smaller and would probably not like the optical drive.

Re:Nokia N770 / N800 / N810

[davidbrit2]

Completely seconded. I've got an N800 myself, and you should definitely consider it. It features not one but TWO SDHC card slots, and you can actually clone the OS onto a card and boot from it to give yourself a 16 GB root disk if you like - more than enough space for loads of apps and media. Folding bluetooth keyboards can be found pretty cheaply, and fill the niche when you have to do more extended typing.

My gripes are the lack of a decent office suite (though work is being done on gnumeric and Abiword at least), and the media player software that's currently available available ranges from horrible to clumsy.

The battery life is phenomenal, the built in stereo speakers are actually quite decent, and the screen is probably the highest resolution I've seen in something this size.

IBM ThinkPad 240

[Anonymous Coward]

The first real subnotebook, the IBM ThinkPad 240, would be right up your alley. Cheap, plentiful, reliable, xl batteries on ebay. Pair it up with FreeBSD/xfce and a 3g card from Verizon and you're done.

Re:16 bit PC cards

[Anonymous Coward]

So true, but there's a handy mnemonic for PCMCIA: People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms.

Re:Check out the Nokia N810 - and N800

[quenda]

See also the Nokia n800 -similiar, no built-in keyboard or GPS, but much cheaper and takes SDHC cards.
The Nokias also runs Doom, (not doom2?).
Can even run VoIP over your 3G cellphone.
The webbrowser and screen is much better than any phone or PDA, but its not much bigger.
If thats still not good enough, I'll second the IBM X40 (used).

Re:consider...

[The New Andy]

The nokia n810 would be a much better option than an iPod touch.

1) You don't have to hack it to do what you want.

2) It has a significantly better resolution (800x480)

3) It has a hardware keyboard (which is fiddly, but at least you don't have to use up screen estate). If you want a better keyboard, you can get USB host mode drivers and plug a USB keyboard into it (or use a bluetooth keyboard).

4) It has removable storage.

Re:Mod parent up

[ross.w]

My phone [nokia.com.au] will run Doom 2 [gersbo.dk]

In fact, what the OP needs is a Symbian capable phone and a cheap data plan.

That will do everything a Psion will do and then some. The phone itself might even be free with the right plan.

He'd probably want to add a bluetooth keyboard for the stated purposes though.

Re:Seriously?

[aliquis]

Intresting thing, never seen it before (seen gp32 and gp2x thought), I saw some photos of it with a laptop and what I think was the eeepc in the same image, sadly enough I can't find it again. I guess it may not be as useful for desktop stuff but it's waaaay smaller and probably more fun ;)

Thought (I have a hard time admitting this) I would eventually go with PSP instead due to more new games (I have a DS..)
Though this is open for real, got better resolution, is faster, got two SD-slots, ..

Re:Check out the Nokia N810

[shrykk]

If you're going to spend that kind of money wouldn't an iPhone/iPod Touch be better (and smaller)?

Not really, the N810 is a comparably good device. I've played with one and they're very shiny.

It has a better screen than the Touch, and a hardware QWERTY keyboard. And built-in GPS. And it runs Linux.

So pick the one that suits you best - it's nice to have a choice between such cool devices.

Re:Seriously?

[SQLGuru]

I have a Dell Latitude D400 without an optical drive (got for free, so hard to complain). http://www.dell.com/downloads/us/products/latit/d400_spec.pdf [dell.com] (PDF link)

I used PXE Boot to install Ubuntu on this laptop and now it sits next to the bed for late night surfing / remote desktop access to other machines.

Here's the link on how to PXE install Ubuntu from a Windows host: http://hugi.to/blog/archive/2006/12/23/ubuntu-pxe-install-via-windows [hugi.to] (it's from 2006, so it references Edgy Eft, but you can pick whichever release you want). I'm sure the info can be extended to many other distro's, if Ubuntu isn't your cup of tea. But the instructions worked great.

Now, try as I might, I haven't figured out how to get Windows to install via PXE even after reading / following most of the instructions I've found online (I'd like to have certain games on this laptop). But for my purposes, Ubuntu is fine.

Layne

Re:Seriously?

[Wdomburg]

Poorly designed sites being the bulk of the internet. :)

Re:consider...

[Anonymous Coward]

1) iPod touch comes with a full standards-compliant web browser, not a stripped-down mobile browser like the n810.

2) It does have better resolution on its 4.13" display, but the iPod is more compact and better able to fit in your pocket. Portability is key in portable devices.

3) It has a hardware keyboard that sucks. iPod touch has a multi-touch enabled touchscreen. Do you really want to carry around an external keyboard with you to use your portable device?

4) iPod touch comes with 8, 16 or 32 GB standard. The 810 only comes with 2 GB. The card you have to purchase separately must conform to a special standard to exceed 2 GB and even then cannot go over 8 GB.

The iPod touch would be a much better option. It starts at $299 whereas the 810 starts at $480. And the iPod touch is half the weight and thickness. I know which one I want to carry with me.