Parent-Friendly Wireless Bridge To Span 500 Meters? 558
GonnaBRichYeahYeah! writes "My dad lives down a dirt road 500 meters off the main road. The cable company will not put cable down his lane for any less than the ridiculous sum of $10,000.
And he cannot get phone line DSL since he is so far away from the central terminal, so he relied on painful 22k/sec dial-up for access to the Internet.
He got sick of it and relies on Hughes satellite Internet, at $60/month, but he still has to be connected to a phone line to upload to the Internet. It's not a good solution, but better than dial-up.
His friend lives on the corner of the main drag with his lane and has cable, thus hi-speed Internet.
I suggested that he get a wireless access point, and put it at his friend's house and then get a wireless card for access. The problem is that no wireless routers go that far (max range of -N is 200 feet) and WiMax is too complex for a 70-year old man. Any suggestions from Slashdot crowd would be helpful." Plenty of people make wireless links over longer distances, but often they're not suited for people who want simplicity and reliability. What's the best out there right now?
Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Hoe (one per helper)
500 meters of heavy duty conduit
500 meters of cable (recommend that you lay fiber at the same time)
Solution 1:
1a: Dig a long trench from the cable termination point down the dirt road to your father's house
1b: Dig a long trench from "the closest neighbour with cable internet" down the dirt road to your father's hose
Ensure that the trench is at least 18 inches deep, roughly 8 inches wide
2. Lay 500 meters of heavy duty conduit. Ensure that you are threading your cable through the conduit all the way along. Attempting to thread the cable AFTER the counduit has been completed may prove to be problematic.
3a: Call the cable company to connect the cable to the cable termination point. Begin paying monthly subscription to cable internet provider.
3b: If you've chosen to run the connection to your neighbhour's home, ensure that you don't piss him/her off. They are now your cable internet provider.
4. Profit $$$
Proper Antenna (Score:5, Informative)
2 or 3 APs with directional antennas (Score:1, Informative)
If he needs wireless at home, I'd get 3 APs. 2 for the direct bridge, and another to broadcast at home.
From Engadget... (Score:5, Informative)
Doable with 802.11g (Score:5, Informative)
You can use wireless (Score:5, Informative)
Directional High-Gain Antenna (Score:2, Informative)
Linksys (I don't know about others) come with a standard antenna port. With a directional, high-gain antenna pointed at your dad's house from the neighbor's, you could probably make the connection. Worst case, you might need to get some custom firmware and turn up the transmission strength a tad. (I suggest Tomato.)
Look up "coffee can wifi antennas" on google. This will make it cheap and "easy."
Cantenna? (Score:5, Informative)
They're really cheap to build. You generally need to find reverse-polarity RF connectors to hook to the card in the computer. Digikey.com, newark.com, and mouser.com all sell reverse-polarity rf connectors. Traditionally people put n-type rf connectors on the antenna but that's a pain: I built mine using a bnc bulkhead connector on the can, and a rp-sma-to-bnc converter connector on my wireless adapter card, and just ran bnc cable from one to the other.
Mine only runs 40 meters through a couple of walls. Hopefully other people will correct this if it's the wrong solution for 500 meters.
Hawking external antennas (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=58&ProdID=133 [hawkingtech.com]
Anonymous Coward (Score:1, Informative)
ALL wireless routers go that far. (Score:5, Informative)
Wireless access point at each end, directional antennas, wifi goodness ensues.
I've done 1000 meters with simple patch antennas and wrt54g routers running dd-wrt to create a wireless ethernet extension. Only heavy rain will drop the connection.
Otherwise look up the laser types. there are hundreds of websites on how to do this simple and common task.
$318 WiFi network bridge connects two locations up (Score:5, Informative)
There is an article at engadget [engadget.com] about this sort of thing. It requires line-of-site, but I'm sure you could manage that.
Link to the Article [businesswire.com]
Hope this helps.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
SMC 2891W (Score:3, Informative)
SMC2891W-AG Wireless Outdoor Bridge
Data Sheet [smc.com]
Manual [smc.com]
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Cable is considered low voltage, so in some states it does not have to be buried 18 inches. Also why would you dig a trench 8 inches wide? Rent a small trencher, it make about trench about 3-4 inches wide. Use a trench shovel to clear out the trench.
Also, if you are using PVC, if you pull the line through as you are gluing the conduit together, you stand a great chance of gluing your pull string in place. Best thing to do is to shoot a mouse through the pipe (a mouse is a special plug that almost exactly fits a conduit that you attach a very light weight pull string to. On the other end you use a shop-vac to suck it out).
I would also have a pull box installed every 100 meters. 500 meters would be one heck of a pull.
Re:Get a long cord (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:1, Informative)
The second thing is you're going to dig a half-kilometer ditch (5.5 football fields) with a hoe? Ditch-witch my friend.
Wireless is much cheaper.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
nope. spool of string, a soft poofy to tie on then fo string that fits easily in conduit and a wet-dry vac. works great. I suggest pulling a string along with the wire so you can easily re-do it later or add another wire.
BTW: 1500 feet of cat 5 does not work well for ethernet. get a pair of sdsl modems and put one at each end of the wire and you can go for 20 miles.
It would be nice.. (Score:3, Informative)
After you figure that out go to http://www.hyperlinktech.com/familylist.aspx?id=146 [hyperlinktech.com] or where ever you want to get an Antenna.
my guess is your going to want to grab the 24db one seeing as how the 30 jumps quite a bit in price. after that mount them both with line of sight connect everything up and you should be good to go. If you don't have line of sight then its going to depend on whats in the way if its possible at all.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:4, Informative)
Doing it professionally for $10K (Score:5, Informative)
You may want to pay your neighbor for a utilities easement to either run a cable down his property or install point A for fixed-wireless on his property. Then, pay the cable company as normal for them to connect Point A to their hookup. You will also need to get electrical service. The up-front costs won't be cheap but it will be a lot less than $10K.
If there are several neighbors affected, you may want to form a co-op or contract with a company who will own the easement.
Call Huges (Score:2, Informative)
All of the Wifi sharing ideas are going to be against the TOS of the company that is being "shared"
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:3, Informative)
1. Make sure you have permission from the land owners to dig the trench and lay the line.
2. Stay away from the state/city/county right of way, or the next time they work on something your line will be torn up.
3. ???
4. Profit
Re:Proper Antenna (Score:5, Informative)
Ticking along for years. 2 MBPS, faster than T1 speed. And proprietary FHSS, no freeloaders. Heh.
You have to get the antenna up above the fresnel effect and any obstructions at the frequency in use, about 60' for 915 Mhz, more like 30' for 2.4 Ghz. Which is why 2.4 Ghz is easier. I would have no problem running that link at either frequency. It'll work fine.
You can do it. No problems at all.
Give good attention to the antennas, that's what you need to get it to work.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Tranzeo (Score:2, Informative)
For 500 meters, you can use the 802.11a or 802.11bg ( TR-5a series and TR-6000 series respectively ) without too many problems, as long as you have good line of sight. If there are a few trees, then the 900MHz stuff might be a better idea, but if there's a forest or a lot of buildings between your friend and your dad, you're boned. Just make sure that regardless of what kind of radio you get ( and regardless of what manufacturer you buy from ), use an antenna with as narrow beamwidth as you can get, ESPECIALLY for the 900MHz. For a point-to-point install, omni antennas are not your friend. Yagi or dish antennas might be a bitch to setup, but you'll have very little noise or interference.
Disclaimer: yes, I work for this company, but I really don't give two hoots if you use our stuff. Just make sure you get the right equipment ( ie: NO OMNI ANTENNAS ). I can't believe how many people think that omni antennas are a good idea ( especially for 900Mhz, ouch ).
Do it like Cox. (Score:3, Informative)
The guy who serviced my house had what looked like a big pizza cutter on a stick. It buried the cable about two inches deep.
Conduit is neither required nor used for cable and phone in a residential setting. If you break it you patch it. This is simple and low cost.
DIY vdsl/aerial cable (Score:4, Informative)
Then go aerial, affix the cat 3 to a wire (for support) and put a 10 ft pole every 10 meters or so. Aerial is most likely the easiest to install, maintain, and upgrade. It also allows for the running of coax for a future cable tv install that will require additional amplification to reach your fathers house.
The nice thing about running cat 3 is vdsl has a nice upgrade path to 100 mbps and beyond.
Cringley and his pringles cans (Score:1, Informative)
I Cringley article on hopping a wifi signal over a mountain. [pbs.org]
Re:Just a thought... (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=15229 [cyberguys.com]
Re:Proper Antenna (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Howeverm if you lay multimode-fibre then you can get a length of 2km out of it. I have no idea what kind of routers you'd need to make that work, but I guess they'd be expensive.
Re:From Engadget... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Cantenna? (Score:1, Informative)
A Cantenna can hit 500 meters without exceeding FCC regulations and many ISPs allow connection sharing (a business level service plan may be required). Pay the neighbor the difference and you're Dad is set to go.
Outwardly stating they are illegal is misleading and a disservice to the readers. Get your facts straight or I'll come after you with my toothbrush.
Re:Directional High-Gain Antenna (Score:5, Informative)
Careful. Not ALL Linksys have antenna ports. Some do, some don't. I just bought one that doesn't. Not a concern for me, but don't buy one online without looking closely expecting them to have ports.
Metric shibboleth (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:1, Informative)
If they are not bonded, it's straightforward to make them pay for your house.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:2, Informative)
Is this supposed to be a joke? Or do you really not know just how seriously people (and municipalities) in rural areas take things like property lines and rights of way? I do. I grew up on a farm, in a place where a property owner would have a right to shoot you if you started trenching on his land...
Re:Metric shibboleth (Score:3, Informative)
$318 WiFi network bridge (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Proper Antenna (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:3, Informative)
Omni antenna question (Score:3, Informative)
My question: would tipping the angle of the antenna towards the reception area improve the take-off angle enough to make a difference? No-one has given me a straight answer on this.
Anyway, I was surprised at how well this !cheap! system works when they asked me to check it out. It just needs some minor reception adjustments.
Re:Do it like Cox. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
And they recommend calling before you do any digging.
Better safe than sorry.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:2, Informative)
Directional radio or laser is the way to solve this problem. If you build it right, you won't need to maintain it much - the only condition is if something breaks or moves. Again, once everything is sighted, lock it down - to the point of building a box around the thing with only the openings you require.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:3, Informative)
I have tried this on two seperate occasions. One worked decently (300m)Util humidity changes caused connection and data loss. Both situations dirt cheap used SDLS modems off ebay solved the issue. in fact one we used 4 SDsl modems and bonded them at the switches and got very close to 25mbps over 300meters.
Such antennas are cheap and small. (Score:5, Informative)
Such antennas are cheap and small, too. Under $100 in singles at a number of companies with online ordering facilities.
A 24db skeleton-parabola can get you miles of range even without a high-gain antenna on the other end, and is about the size of a UHF TV antenna. (I know one guy who war-scans the business district of San Francisco with one - from his apartment deck in Berkeley. B-) ) With antennas on both ends you should be able to go with the little lozenge types.
To give you an idea of range: My Nevada house is about 5 miles from the cell tower where the local WiSP has its POP, with a directional antenna pointed generally my way. His customers normally use a lozenge antenna with built in AP mounted on an outside wall, and I'll probably do that when I sign up (because my computer room is on the far side of the house). But my picture window faces the tower and my laptop catches the ID beacon just fine sitting in my lap using the builtin antenna.
So for a half-mile putting an AP in each attic and even a low-gain external antenna on the roof or outside wall should do the job just fine.
Want a cheap do-it-yourself high-gain directional antenna? Get a big wok strainer (woks and their strainers are pretty good parabolas), put a USB-stick WiFI adapter on a USB extension cord, and mount it with its backside at the focus of the strainer. B-)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:2, Informative)
The only problem I have with it is that its QOS controls don't seem to work. When I run BitTorrent and eMule and play CS, my pings still go to shit. (And I've increased the maximum number of established connectios to 4096 so that's not the issue.)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833130039 [newegg.com]
Two 19 dBi directional outdoor antennas ($82 each)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833980012 [newegg.com]
Various Cabling:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812146013 [newegg.com]
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833164143 [newegg.com]
Two WRT54GL's ($60 each) to be equipped with Linux firmware (recommend DD-WRT)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190 [newegg.com]
I'm sure there will be all sorts of adapters (M to F and TNC to N-type) needed, so plan on making several batches of purchases before you go to the site. Also disable the unused antenna in DD-WRT.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
don't people google anymore before asking
WildBlue? (Score:3, Informative)
You might have a look at Engenius's outdoor APs [engeniustech.com]. A pair of EOC-3220s should work well. Cheaper than most outdoor gear, supports POE, stable (at least mine has been rock solid, I have the external antenna version). And it support bridging natively!
Cheers,
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:3, Informative)
You need:
1. Power at both ends of the line
2. a ditch with conduit
3. a spool of single-mode
4. a professional with the tools to terminate the ends of the fiber
5. two single mode to ethernet media converters, http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=884092 [cdw.com]
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:3, Informative)
New capacity, repairs, new technology (fiber?), etc. There's not much more frustrating than having to completely redo a good cable run 10 years down the road because someone neglected to pull a spare strand of string.
Also, responding to someone further up, just because you aren't required by code to bury your conduit 18" or more doesn't mean it's not a really good idea to do so. When someone decides to develop the acreage next door and the concrete trucks break up your cable in multiple spots, or it's so shallow that you dig into it planting trees, you won't be happy camper.
Re:Doing it professionally for $10K (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:1, Informative)
Easy and reliable with out Line of Sight (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:3, Informative)
However, if you have a point-to-point wireless link with the same amplification on both ends, it can be useful. Don't overuse it though, as too much amplification will distort the signal, and disrupt other people's attempts to use nearby frequencies (even pretty far away).
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:1, Informative)
However, one might indeed disturb users on the freuquency one uses and on neighbouring frequencies, as strong signal handling might not be that good in your average WiFi-reciever. But you can avoid problems simply by starting with zero amplification and then turning it up until a stable link is achieved and then maybe a bit more to be on the safe side, but no more than that. this will minimize interference with other users.
An aside: If you bild setups with directional antenna and amplification than do familiarize yourself with microwafe safety precautions. A focused beam on 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz microwafes can severely hurt your eyes or even blind you if you look directly into it. (It prettymuch cooks the protein inside your eyes, just like a microwafe oven would). At the very least, mount it high enough that noone can stand in front of the antenna and look directly into it.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:3, Informative)
A compressor on the other hand that's blowing air has no problem blowing more than an atmosphere pressure. And in a 500m pipe that can make a huge difference.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
500m is nothing... what matters is line-of-sight (Score:3, Informative)
If you do not have line of sight from the ground, try the roof. If you still don't your next option would be to build a mast. You can make a mast up to 10 or 12m cheaply by telescoping several pieces of steel pipe and bracing the whole thing with 3 steel cables. I have a 9m mast like this that I built for about $100.
Make sure to get a router with antennas that you can disconnect and replace (not all have those, but many do). Then connect a directional antenna... for 500m you don't need anything fancy, the cheapest directional antenna you can buy or a home-made "cantenna" will do just fine.
Same for the other end of the connection... if you don't want to put a router on both ends, make sure your wifi card has an antenna connector. Or you can use a USB wifi adapter with a "stub" antenna, and stick that little stub directly into a "cantenna" type can (you'll need to calculate the position of the hole for the antenna... there are calculators for this on the net, google "cantenna calculator"). That will turn a little $25 USB dongle into a directional Wifi powerhouse, using nothing but a can with hole drilled in the right place! I've gotten a strong connection over 1km between two of those and I'm sure it could have gone much further but we didn't try because 1km was enough.
For your short distance of 500m, given line of sight, you may even be able to get away with a directional antenna only on one end, and the regular omni antenna on the other. I.e. if you have window-to-window sight, you may be able to put an unmodified router on the windowsill of one house and a usb-dongle-cantenna on a windowsill of the other and have your link.
Good luck!
Use DSL (Score:3, Informative)
Here's the kind of boxes I'm talking about:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190224334652 [cgi.ebay.ca]
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:4, Informative)
I mean.. You did consult the FCC tables for uncontrolled exposure at 2.4 GHz when setting up your little science project, right?
Of course you did. Or they wouldn't have approved your license request to run an experimental, (i.e. modified to no longer be type-accepted), (and ERP>1W ) setup in the 2.4 GHz band.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, I consulted the charts, and even did the math myself to confirm that the charts were right.
a 20mw transmitter and 24dBi antenna puts it
Now, my 200mw transmitter with the 24dBi antenna is a wee bit against FCC rules in theory, but with loss in the cables, it may just be at the limit.
Since they were very directional antennas, it was a fairly safe bet they'd never notice anyways. Sitting behind either antenna, I could hear the signal (encrypted, of course). Standing on the ground immediately under the antenna, still with a clear view of the remote side, I couldn't detect it, nor anything at that particular frequency. I even did that with the 200mw transmitter and a 4.5dBi antenna. Only being maybe 15 feet or so below the real antenna was enough to be outside of the beam of the more diverse antenna.
Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:2, Informative)
Use a couple of cans as antennas (Score:2, Informative)