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The Internet

How To Clean Up Incorrect Geolocation Information? 392

zorro6 writes "I thought this might be an interesting question/topic and it would sure help me to get some kind of answer. I recently got internet service from a small, local wireless ISP in my area (south central Colorado, USA). The strange thing is that many, many web sites think I am in Quebec, Canada when I use the service. Evidently some geolocation service thinks my IP address indicates I am in Canada. I have checked the obvious. The WHOIS information for my IP correctly indicates a location of Durango, CO. So the bad info is coming from some more sophisticated geolocation service. My ISP is at a loss as to how to fix this but it is causing me a lot of grief. Many of the ads I get shown on Yahoo! for instance are in French! Certain sites won't sell me goods or services because they don't do business in Canada. So far I know that Yahoo! (or their ad provider), Nvidia, Movielink, etc. all think I am in Canada. I would sure appreciate any help/info on how to get this corrected."
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How To Clean Up Incorrect Geolocation Information?

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  • Proxy (Score:4, Insightful)

    by KevMar ( 471257 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:18AM (#23850371) Homepage Journal
    You might have to track down a proxy to surf from.
  • maxmind.com (Score:3, Insightful)

    by braddeicide ( 570889 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:24AM (#23850433)
    maxmind.com seems to pioneer GeoIP information, I suggest contacting them.
  • by Skidge ( 316075 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:24AM (#23850441)
    It's amazing how many people rely on geo-IP information when it's so unreliable. Denying potential customers use of your services because of tenuous assumptions you're making about them seems like bad business.

    We'd use geo-IP data at my old job, but it was just in non-critical, stop-gap places, trying to provide a better experience to users that we knew nothing about. Denying some customers use of our site would have been costly.
  • by Ares ( 5306 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:29AM (#23850497) Homepage
    You may not get anywhere with it, but it might be worth it to try and contact Yahoo's ad department about this. After all, its pretty worthless to be dumping a French ad to an American, and as a result a waste (however small) of the money the advertiser spent getting the ad to you in the first place. I'm suggesting Yahoo because you mention specifically their ads showing up, but if there are any others that do the same thing, it might be worth contacting them as well.

    Yes, it does seem rather counterintuitive to most of us here who block ads, but they are a source of revenue for the likes of Yahoo, and if they can chip in some effort to more effectively target you, you've gone a ways towards solving the problem with the other sites.
  • Proxy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by EEPROMS ( 889169 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:33AM (#23850525)
    The actual problem may be that your ISP is outsourcing the proxy to a datacentre in Canada thus it may be stuffing up the GEO_LOC software on some retail servers. Try using another proxy (within your area obviously).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:42AM (#23850603)
    Like radio, television, and newspapers, advertisers pay an advertising company for targeted ad placement. If the advertisers were to find out their ads are being viewed by people that aren't even in the same country they are trying to target (much less speaking a different language), they'll call the advertising company selling them the ads and yell about it - probably threatening not to pay. Once you start affecting the advertising company's income, someone will figure out the problem and fix it. This probably isn't your ISP's issue, or even the advertising company. The lesson, though, is to target the person that can bitch the loudest (the advertiser), and have them target the person they pay for the service the advertising company, with threats not to pay. The advertising company will find the bad database entry and force the location company to repair it. Good luck. Good luck.
  • I'm not here (Score:5, Insightful)

    by enoz ( 1181117 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:46AM (#23850629)
    I'm interested to find out how to clean up "incorrect" Geolocation info too.

    Increasingly it appears sites are using GeoLocation to route you to a different version of their website, or prevent you from viewing content.

    Sometimes it may be useful, such as when Google serving you localised adverts, however when they get it wrong it can becomes a great pain in the arse.

    Worse is when sites ban you from viewing content, or just ban you completely, based on your location.

    I'm sure some people will rationalise the need for Geolocation for restricting content, but I think it is akin to putting a poster in a public place and then trying to restrict people from viewing it.
  • by Mathinker ( 909784 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:48AM (#23850649) Journal
    My advice is to go the route Ares suggests, by contacting Yahoo about the problem, but in addition, I would emphasize in my communications with them that as a customer, they aren't getting full value for the money they pay their geolocation service. This may be more effective for actually motivating Yahoo to contact its geolocation service about it, rather than just complaining about bad ads.
  • by TheSpoom ( 715771 ) * <{ten.00mrebu} {ta} {todhsals}> on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:51AM (#23850675) Homepage Journal
    Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day.

    Teach a man to fish, and he'll feed himself for years.

    Hackers follow this model when giving support. Even if the asker gave such details, we'd likely show them how to figure out the answer themselves. It's not that we don't care to give a quick solution, it's that we want to share the knowledge so they can help themselves and help others in the future.

    And frankly, I wouldn't want to make it immediately obvious what my IP address was to such a large audience. There's inevitably going to be some jackass that sends a botnet at it.
  • by TubeSteak ( 669689 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:54AM (#23850711) Journal
    I would have suggested he have his ISP assign him different IPs until he gets one that geolocates to America.

    "Don't know what's going on" is different from "we can't resolve the matter"
  • by arth1 ( 260657 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @12:56AM (#23850721) Homepage Journal
    It is always wrong to blame the user for stale cookies. Cookies are set by the server, not the user, and the server can (and should) update them as necessary.

    Besides, that has nothing to do with the problem here, which happens when the web site looks up the IP address in a locator service, and gets wrong information back. The IP address is independent of cookies.
  • Re:happened to me (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dak RIT ( 556128 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @01:23AM (#23850909) Homepage

    Geolocation services are just large databases that map IP addresses to physical locations. There's really nothing else to it. Who owns a set of IP addreses can also change quite frequently, and so these databases need constant updating.

    As an example, here's the FAQ [geoio.com] provided by a geolocation service I've used in the past:

    GEO I/O compiles several sources of data to achieve 99% accuracy at the country level, 85% at the state/regional level, 80% at the (US) city level (within a 25-mile radius), and 60% accuracy for cities outside of the US. The data is stored in a proprietary format, limiting our ability to make individual changes to it, however the database is updated monthly by our data providers.

    Basically, it will get fixed when the group maintaining the data updates it, which in my experience can be anywhere from a couple weeks to a year.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 19, 2008 @01:25AM (#23850911)
    That's why no one likes a "hacker."

    People don't ask for help as a lead-in to a lecture about something over their head, they ask for help. Giving them a load of crap they can't use as a substitute speaks to a dearth of social understanding and an unwillingness to be a decent human being to someone who doesn't share the same skillset. That's the true "hacker" mentality.

    I say this without malice - I myself dabble in the dark arts of making computers do my will. It's simply the result of many years of observation of the personality types of people who are into computers.

    Luckily, I was socialized as a child so I'm a hell of a lot easier to get along with. In real life, that is. Don't care much about here, I don't know any of you and you don't know me, so you're outside of my circle of give-a-shit.
  • Re:Proxy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SpaceLifeForm ( 228190 ) on Thursday June 19, 2008 @01:31AM (#23850963)
    Or, a hidden proxy upstream is the problem.
  • Re:personal sites (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SanityInAnarchy ( 655584 ) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Thursday June 19, 2008 @03:25AM (#23851663) Journal
    It's stupid, but I always look twice... pop 10k here, so I would have seen them before.

    Still, my favorite has to be this one [thedailywtf.com], and ones like it.

    Seriously, one of these days, I have got to get into the porn business. If any idiot with FrontPage can make money, imagine what will happen when you get someone competent... I can see it now: PornDB! Complete with buzzword compliance (social networking! REST!) and a query language!

    SELECT videos.* FROM models LEFT JOIN videos ON model_id WHERE bust_size > size('33C') AND bmi 120;

    (Nobody mod me insightful!)
  • Re:happened to me (Score:3, Insightful)

    by grahamm ( 8844 ) <gmurray@webwayone.co.uk> on Thursday June 19, 2008 @06:30AM (#23852663) Homepage
    I notice that neither of their demos work when presented with an IPv6 address.

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