Surviving Outsourcing? 234
An anonymous reader writes "As some of you may know, HP is negotiating with DPWN, parent company of DHL, to take on outsourced parts of DPWN's global IT Services business unit. As a worker in that business unit, I and my colleagues are part of what HP is negotiating for. I moved into my current position fresh out of university and so far haven't experienced corporate shake-ups or outsourcing initiatives. I enjoy my work and the opportunities that go with it, which is why this announcement was so distressing to me at first. Then I began hearing about the opportunities HP has internally. If you've been through a similar experience, what advice would you give for someone being outsourced? Should I 'ride the wave' and join the new company and culture, or dust off the old CV/resume?"
No brainer. (Score:4, Interesting)
Lie like you have never lied before (Score:5, Interesting)
Although many factors are beyond your control, you can give the impression that you are really positive about the whole thing. Cooperate enthusiastically about the whole process. You can't stop it, or even slow it down, your goal should be to ensure that management think you are "part of the team" and "have the right attitude".
You need to do wholly BS stuff like ask those controlling this mess if there is some way you can help.
As a techie turned CIO turned headhunter I laugh openly at the "great opportunities" at HP or any outsourcer. My former colleague at PC Magazine Guy Kewney refers to these as "Industry Standard Lies".
They have as much credibility as the many fine offers I get in emails from Nigeria and China for wealth and health.
But you must not share my laughter.
You must sound impressed with these fake offers, maybe even apply for some. This is best done as innocent questions, like asking the new management about them, and how you could apply. They will be selling them to you, so we now have both of you faking it to each other. That will look good when they decide who to dump.
You may wonder if they will be taken in by this fake enthusiasm. The odds are better than you think, unless you have already met some HP managers, and then been amazed that people like this are allowed to be in charge of anything.
They're not exactly very bright are they ?
You will want to leave of course. Anyone who has seen outsourcing knows that the good people will want to walk.
But in any market, you want to be the one who decides when you leave. Buy some time and maybe the horse will learn to sing.
Don't panic (Score:4, Interesting)
A comparable thing happened to my wife. When she told me, I started mirroring her fears and it turns out that wasn't a good idea. I gave her the advice to look around. That was just one possible advice, fueled by anxiety. She basically had to solicit for her own position. We did so, but actually aimed higher. Turns out in the new situation she's much better off.
Now I'm not saying that's going to happen here. First, take the FUD out of your head and put it besides you on the couch. Then, ask around. It's better to find out more from your manager and HR if possible. In the new situation, what kind of jobs are availailable. For young people there are often opportunities here. Keep all options open, but shop around internally as well.
Was in a similar position last year. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Why not try it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Just what I was thinking - do both!
I went through something similar a couple of times within a few months a little while ago. First time round I got a lot of reassuring "we want your expertise" noises, then a payoff and a goodbye. Then I got a new job at a small company and it happened again.
Second time it was another big company (let's call them "large indigo") and we had all the same talks and speeches and the same reassurances, only they actually meant it. Unfortunately it's very hard to tell this. Anyway,I'm still with them and am not only very happy (and in the same job) but it's kinda cool having the opportunity to move around the company and the world once you're on the inside.
So, YMMV, but don't be too pessimistic.
Re:Why not try it? (Score:5, Interesting)
This would seem to be the obvious thing to do.
I got outsourced a couple of years ago, (not to HP) and I couldn't say it's any better or worse than it was before. I do have the advantage of UK employment law on my side, which in theory ensures I remain on cmparable terms and conditions. I ended up with a poorer pension scheme but a higher salary to make up for it, and a few minor changes in other benefits - mostly good.
Not everybody stayed on, but most people did. One guy left, then got re-hired because he was too valuable to lose. Most of us are doing pretty much the same job as we were before, although those in leadership roles probably have more responsibility than they did before.
In theory there are more opportunities for me. A lot of that is going to depend on me seeking them out. At the least, I shall end up doing work for other customers besides my original employer which gives me exposure to different ways of doing things.
In my limited experience - I got sort-of outsourced once before: massive reorganization which involved setting up a new company to handle IT for the whole group - it needn't be bad for you. I certainly think that some of the other posters are being needlessly alarmist and cynical. Go with it, and try to be involved in the changes.
It depends where you are located (Score:1, Interesting)
If you are part of the DPWN staff in Germany then sit tight. The German laws make 'rightsizing' very difficult. :-
IF you are elsewhere, be afraid, VERY Afraid.
Watch out for the HP tactics of:-
1) Moving your location by hundreds of miles/km
2) Moving you to and existing HP facility where there are
a) Not enough desks for the existing staff
b) Not enough car parking for the existing staff.
3) The sudden appearance of Indian IT staff who have come to learn your job
This is all to get you to leave on your own without them making you redundant/laid off/rightsized.
You mangers may well have hidden targets and therefore bonuses for getting rid of say 30% of staff.
If you are not someone who is a 'Yes Sir, Three Bags full, let me lick you boots sir, kinda guy' then beware the arrival of the pink slip within days of the takeover being completed.
I survived the Compaq takeover of DEC but got the chop 2 days after HP took over. Then went back as a contractor to complete the multi million $$$$ project I was working on. HP is one place I wouldn't ever work again. They SUCK royally.
Some tips from the "other side" (Score:5, Interesting)
It seems that I am on the other side of the story (dark side?) since I actually work in an outsourcing company. I work in Serbia, and we provide some programming for one company in USA.
It may be that we are not a typical example, but in our case there are about 60 employees in USA and 20 here in Serbia.
Complete R&D, marketing, and all top-jobs in IT are done in USA. Here in Serbia we do very basic tasks only.
In our particular case, we are not doing the job very well. Successful outsourcing requires very good communication channels. Due to geographical difference and esp. if there is time zone difference (like USA - India) communication must be perfect. This is very hard to achieve. That would require trained people in USA to write good specs, to know how to handle tasks and everything. For a beginning, just to know what they want as a product. In practice, that would mean that good managers will do some good work and bad managers will do some bad work, just as if there was no outsourcing. Outsourcing will just make existing communication problems bigger.
In our particular case, since we work in extremely regulated industry, things are even harder. Everything in the process has to be double-checked, documented and so on. In theory, this makes things more easy to outsource, but in practice, as major job has to be done in USA, outsourcing does not seem too beneficial. In our case, only thing you can outsource are junior jobs. But they have problems figuring this, and they try over and over to send us any tasks they find "labor intensive". This won't work. Outsourcing company is not a cavalry you call when you are in trouble. If you want to treat it like a cheap labor for boring tasks, you'll be in a huge problem.
As a complete surprise to a geniuses who believe that outsourcing is a solution for poor business practices, people that work in outsourcing companies are human, too. When treated as junk, they treat their employers as junk, so they tend to leave for small increases in salaries, since their job satisfaction is low and salary in only measure. Even more surprisingly, if treated as humans, outsources tend to behave just every normal employee. They learn about their jobs, they are ready to spend some time there when salaries are not the highest in the city and so on.
It's a bit different story when large company, like HP decides to outsource entire department. I don't see how this could be efficient. It's not a problem to replace junior John Doe with Asok in Delhi, but if you need to replace every trained team-leader, every mid-manager with the Indian counter-part, it seems to me like a recipe for disaster.
Re:From my experience (Score:4, Interesting)
"This likely will result in a possibility you come on to the new company... or not. Remember a lot depends on how much you are willing to accept as a reduction in pay which ultimately will happen at some point."
I've been through two corporation acquisitions in the last 10 years. First time, I wound up making $5K more per year, as an incentive to stay, doing the same job. Second time, I was offered a different job in the new company, making $11K more per year. We've all heard the stories about people being forced to take pay cuts to keep their jobs, but I personally don't know a single person who has experienced that.
The OP should ride this out, keeping a positive attitude and an open mind. Opportunities are born out of situations like this.
None of the above (Score:3, Interesting)
Should I 'ride the wave' and join the new company and culture, or dust off the old CV/resume?
I don't like either of those options. Back in my day job days this kind of thing would go on all the time. Outsource rumors and buy outs in private industry, contract changes in military contracting. Either way you're still an employee subject to the whims and petty rules of your employer.
Another option is thinking about banking some cash and starting your own gig. It's harder work and pays less but ultimately you'll be happier. You have to learn about things like quarterly taxes and professional liability insurance, business licenses and what advertising works and what doesn't. The nice thing about tech is you don't need expensive offices or a lot of overhead to get going. You will need enough cash to survive until you have money coming in, which takes longer than you think.
Most people have ideas about what it takes to start a business and those ideas are almost universally wrong. You may not get fabulously wealthy but with hard work and miserly habits you can make ends meet. I was doing okay and it eventually led to a job that is, essentially, layoff proof. And I get an equity position if the company gets bought out. Plus I'm in the envious position of being the person with the whims who makes up the petty rules. Life is a lot better being on that side of the equation.
Having your own gig gives you the leverage to take a pass on the crapass, dead end, corporate cubicle jobs. You'll be happier in the long run. What seems strange to me are people who will argue for the financial security of a day job. Talk about a false sense of security. You can work in the same place 20 years and get fired the next day and won't get squat.
The World is Flat (Score:1, Interesting)
Friedman goes through great effort to explain how and why jobs are being outsourced, and also provides some guidance on what we can do to survive in a "flat" world. I would call this book required reading for anyone working in any level of IT.
If you're not the reading type, there's a video of Friedman at MIT [mit.edu] where he coveres much of the first three chapters.
Re:India or Bust! (Score:3, Interesting)
Here is a link to the episodes of season 2 of 30 days [tvshowsondvd.com]
Re:Why not try it? (Score:3, Interesting)
As someone who was bought out by HP in the past year here's some personal insight.
Every process inside HP is purposely filled with so much red tape it's designed to make you want to quit and not do it. Example buying a piece of software from a vendor, it takes 3+ months and 14+ sign offs, plus like 5 forms that need to be filled out. Someone in legal said this was on purpose to discourage people spending company money.
Internal IT support for anything? Get ready to spend 90+ minutes on hold to a call center in India, that can't escalate your call no mater what...because they have no one to escalate it to.
Want to move a server into internal IT supported data centers? 200,000 bucks charged to your department, and it'll take 6 months. It must be the latest patched OS, on HP hardware, and if it's a *nix, it must be HP-UX. No Solaris, No linux of any kind.
401K/Pension matching was just lowered by 20% for all new hires/aquires as well.
Hurd goes through each year and picks a division where he cuts it by like 60+%, suddenly goes woo saved money!, and moves along to the next.
The sales reporting tools are so horrid that they can't even show product sales over the last 24 hours. The report times out after 30 minutes.
So for advice, polish up the resume and start looking. If nothing cool comes along then join up until something better does appear, then take it.
Who stole my cheese! (Score:4, Interesting)
In reality nobody can expect a life-long career based on one industry, let alone one employer. For example, I started my full time working life in 1976 as HS drop-out pumping petrol - driveway service went extinct a long time ago where I live. In my early 20's I had a wife and kid and I worked/lived at an old growth sawmill in the middle of nowhere for a year or so - the forestry lease ran out in 1984 and the area is now a national park. Worked on scallop trawlers (fishing) for a year or so - few boats left after the govt. bought back licenses to stop overfishing and protect fish breeding grounds. Worked shift work in a nylon spinning plant in the late 80's - govt signed a treaty and phased out the corporate welfare (tarrifs). Been a well paid geek since ~92-93, whodathunk it?!?
I'm 49, not counting jobs
BTW: I agree a big diverse employer can offer a great deal in the way of internal opportunity.
Re:The World is Flat (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, "The World is Flat" - for now, and for IT in the foreseeable future. Anything which can fit through an Internet connection can be potentially outsourced, quite easily.
Industries that produce things that can't, like manufacturing or farming, will only be capable of being outsourced while energy costs are still relatively low. Once energy costs start to severely cut into profit margins, it's going to be hard to ship raw materials to China, and get finished goods back, and still sell them cheaply here in the US. That time is fast approaching.
Also, trades like plumbers and electricians, and medical professionals, although they really can't be outsourced, can be "insourced". This is already happening in the nursing profession. People from overseas are willing to come here and accept lower salaries to do work that US citizens used to perform for higher rates. However, as the standard of living decreases here in the US, things will probably even out as US citizens are willing to accept a lower salary to do the same job they did 10 years ago, simply because they won't have a choice.
So, yes, the world is "flatter" than it used to be, and will probably remain that way provided that the earth continues to have a soft, creamy, cheap, and easily available nugget of fuel that we can easily suck on indefinitely.
However, I think that it's most likely to get less "flat" in the near future, since that is most definitely not the case.
Get out of computer work! (Score:3, Interesting)
Study business management or some other field of work. The trend to outsource computer jobs will never stop. Find something else to do for a living.
Either that or learn a foreign language so you can travel to foreign nations to train the new employees how to do computer work. Invest in a Rosetta Stone CD.
You also could start up your own small business and try to run your own company. I would suggest small business courses at a community college while on unemployment to learn and talking to the SBA as well. You might be able to win some short term contracts and do computer work from home and be able to pay yourself with some money left over to hire more people. Also look into IT moonlighting web sites for small project work.