HD Radio Recording In the US? 303
unreceivedpacket writes "The public radio stations I listen to have been advertising their conversion to HD Radio format for some time. They advertise multiple channels, their second channel playing all classical, all the time. I am interested in purchasing a receiver so I can listen to this extra content, and was also hoping to find a receiver with a built-in recorder so I could time-shift programs that are not otherwise available as legal pod-casts. My initial queries have returned few models that support any kind of digital recording, and the existing ones seem out of production or sorely lacking features. Is this the state of Digital Radio in the US? Are there any legal recording devices for HD Radio? Any good solutions for recording and time-shifting, perhaps through Linux?"
HD Radio adapter for computers (Score:5, Insightful)
Please visit www.rush2112.net for an adapter and controller for the Visteon HD Radio car unit and the one from Directed Electronics.
It can be used with a number of satellite radio recorders like SatAmp to record broadcasts and timeshift. It also comes with a demo and development kit if you like that sort of thing.
http://www.rush2112.net/mkportal/modules/oscommerce/product_info.php?products_id=39 [rush2112.net]
I have his XM and Sirius adapters. They all work on the same principle by talking to a vehicle OEM tuner via the RS-232 port that they all have.
Re:Please read before posting... please! (Score:3, Insightful)
No, that's Fight Club. The reason no one talks about usenet is the same reason why nobody actively talks about 4chan. It's so base that it's not worth tarnishing your reputation to mention it.
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:2, Insightful)
WTF?
Take off that shiny hat for a second.
Vista monitors the voltage on the audio out? Vista doesn't know if you plugged in speakers vs. a recording device.
And how does MS know the exact resistance of EVERY audio card, cable, connector, amplifier, or headset?
Maybe I'm missing something here but... (Score:3, Insightful)
...if an add-on tuner has a universal output to connect to standard stereo or even multi-channel amplifier then there is an output capable of being recorded from. If it is that much of a problem to hook a pre-amp up and pipe the channel to say a Tape2 output and dub signal to a recording device of some sort then maybe the OP should be looking for another way to grab the coveted radio programming.
If there are line voltage sensors that let the Vista software know that an external recording source has been hooked up, a fairly simple work around is a equalizer. You can find many on the used market from companies like BSR, Soundcraftsman and even AudioSource. They will all take a line level input and most of the models available from them will have dubbing modes that split the signal internally and won't present a line voltage change to the output of the computer system.
This is not a difficult issue to overcome from my point of view but like I said, maybe I am missing something. I'm not that up on HD Radio technology but if it's like the HD Television signals at home, I can record those in a similar fashion. Of course the media is different because of the required bandwidth but once the signal passes through the encrypted circuits and is interpreted, there aren't many stops in place that one can't get around with some creative positioning of hardware.
Re:A couple of possibilities (Score:3, Insightful)
Even with digital output you won't be keeping those HD Radio broadcasts for music listening purposes.
I have XM and Sirius with optical outputs and the sound being broadcast by them has fairly poor fidelity. If you're used to that, then you probably won't notice, but comparing any of the broadcasted digital formats (even internet radio) to anything you can download from iTunes is going to disappoint you.
HD Radio compares favorably to XM Satellite Radio since they use very similar audio codecs, but even then you're not going to like it for music. If the station you want to record is multicasting, meaning that it has more than one "channel" on one frequency, you're going to be disappointed unless it's a talk program.
The bandwidth for music on the multicasting HD Radio stations is not worth the cost to bother with optical outputs. Line level input will be more than you could need.
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:5, Insightful)
What's replacing radio?
The Ipod? That's been around for years and the people who want one already have them and have stopped listening to radio years ago.
Podcasts? One of the only mediums that has a lower signal to noise ratio than radio.
Sirius/XM? Meh, I know one person that subscribes to them, I don't think they're growing very fast anymore, if they ever did.
Streaming radio? Legislated into oblivion last year or the year before.
TV? Been there, done that.
Radio is sticking around, it may be becoming less relevant to your ears but I doubt you've listened in years anyway. Radio is free, and the ultimate road companion. Plus it won't be going away simply because of weather related announcements.
Re:Please read before posting... please! (Score:5, Insightful)
You know that whole business of "information wants to be free", not being able to hide information that anyone can obtain freely, etc.? Well it cuts both ways. Just as they can't protect their content, you can't protect your methods for getting their content. So don't bother trying.
Re:not a problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:5, Insightful)
sweet so how does that radio work getting traffic reports when I am sitting on 696 just outside novi?
Oh wait, they DONT. Oh well I am sure they work great for the 78 year old lady that has to live on $600 a month. that $50.00 a moth charge for broadband is worth it....
1 dinosaur radio station has way more listeners than all your internet radio stations all rolled together have.
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:5, Insightful)
Only citizens.
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:3, Insightful)
Riiiight. Maybe we should do the same thing for real property. Why "own" land like they did 100 years ago. Just have communal property. If you see a house that you like, just move in. Is your neighbor's TV larger than yours? Take it.
I, for one, am happy that the local police, fire department, and ambulance services have their own slice of spectrum. I would hate for people to die because little Billy decided to run his own radio station.
Or, you can have two TV stations in a "broadcast war." ABC decides to broadcast on channel 7. NBC decides that they have a larger transmitter, so they tune to channel 7 and crank up the wattage, knocking ABC off. ABC then decides to upgrade the transmitter to twice the power that NBC has, and knocks them off the air.
Radio spectrum is a limited resource. There is only so much of it, and everybody has to share. It needs to be managed, just as you manage other things that are limited (time, money, space, etc.).
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree, but there also needs to be some part of the spectrum allocated to "anything goes."
It is possible to have both. 2.4 has licensed only bands on both sides of it.
I can't speak for everyone, but I think a lot of low power FM & TV stations would be great. At least much better than having a choice of one or two Clearchannel stations.
Re:Read and think before spew? (Score:3, Insightful)
Every time I read open spectrum rants, it's clear that the authors never had any real life wireless experience or their entire experience has been 802.11 Wifi. Or they're high.
The fact that you say EM "adds just as light does" illustrates my point :-)
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:5, Insightful)
Consider the chaos of other countries that have even small portions of open spectrum. Nothing works subsequently, and you'll get some trucker with a 10kw transmitter in Arkansas over powering your TV, radio, cell phone, and WiFi because of the broadband noise produced.
Free spectrum would be like removing the lines on the highway and the lane markings at intersections. Go ahead.
Re:Please read before posting... please! (Score:3, Insightful)
Could you please elaborate on what the problem is?
They can't protect their content. This is the basic fallacy of DRM which we discuss on this site all the time.
We can't protect our methods. If they are known on the internet then they can be discovered by the content providers. It matters not a whit whether we discuss it on this site or not, they will still find out.
The ultimate reason for both of these is the same: information cannot be protected unless all parties who can access it are absolutely trustworthy.
That's all I said before. Does this way make more sense to you?
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem with a part of the spectrum where "anything goes" is that broadcasters could be drowned out by competitors.
Remember, current bands where "anything goes" aren't quite like that: they have strict power limits, so that you don't have to worry about your cordless phone or 802.11 access point being drowned out by your neighbor's, as long as you're not too close together. Spread-spectrum technology also made these less-regulated bands possible; if we still had fixed "channels" like FM or TV, this simply wouldn't be possible.
Imagine trying to have a band of "anything goes" TV stations. You want to set up your own TV station, but you're in a crowded metro area, and all the channels are already taken by other amateur broadcasters. So you just get a more powerful transmitter, and take over someone else's channel. That's not right.
Unregulated spectrum only works because of spread-spectrum technology and low power requirements.
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:2, Insightful)
Wrong. Try moving to someplace where there is no property tax and trying that argument. Here in Arizona, we have a city named Mesa which has no property tax. You can buy land there and not worry about the government taking it for non-payment of taxes. Of course, the city is a dump (cue flamebait mods from Mesa residents...), so I'm not sure why you'd want to live there, but at least you don't have to worry about property taxes.
Your point is mostly valid, though, just not for the places where there's no property tax.
But as another counterpoint, if you don't pay property tax, then how does the government ensure you're paying your fair share for police and fire protection services which you use? You can't exactly opt out of police and fire services. And sales and income taxes don't ensure that every resident pays, since many people don't work, and there's nothing forcing you to buy your groceries in your own town (Mesa is right next to Tempe, Chandler, and Gilbert, so it's pretty easy to never buy stuff in Mesa if you live there). While Mesa relies on sales tax and otherwise just puts up with high crime, most local governments rely on property taxes to pay for these services, which everyone uses even if they're lucky and never have a fire. While some places go to a ridiculous extreme with property taxes (I've heard parts of Texas have insane taxes), I think it's still reasonable to tax residential property at a reasonable rate for these services. I just wish they could have higher taxes for lower-income housing than for higher-income housing, since poor people are the ones who use police services all the time. (Before someone says something about white-collar crime, I think corporate/industrial/commercial property should be taxed separately, to pay for the white-collar crime they cause. But you never see "COPS" being filmed in upscale neighborhoods with million-dollar homes, with the cops dragging methheads out of their mega-mansions.)
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:4, Insightful)
I know this is off-topic, but why is it that car radios don't have the weather bands? Having weather information when you are most vulnerable seems like a common sense thing to me.
Time-shifting radio with computer tuners (Score:3, Insightful)
Many Linux-compatible TV tuners come with FM tuners built-in, I suspect it's only a matter of time until they start putting HD radio tuners on those too.
As a side note, Windows Vista Media Center supports FM tuners built-in to TV tuner cards. But it provides no means of time-shifting radio, even though it can do so for TV (and that is arguably its primary purpose). I have often wondered why this is so. What is the benefit of listening to radio on your computer if all the same rules apply as when you're listening to it on any other device? Doesn't it just become sort of a pain in the ass?
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Liberate the Spectrum. (Score:1, Insightful)
Yes, it needs to be managed. But it shouldn't be managed like property, which only only one person uses at a given location at a given time. It's more like a road. Many people can drive on the same road at the same time. The car seller doesn't have right to say what road you drive on. Nor does the road have (much) say on what car you drive over it. It's not a perfect analogy, and there are (obviously) holes in it, but it's a hell of a lot better than the property model...
HD bitrates are 32-48 kbps. Why Bother? (Score:3, Insightful)