Real-World 3G Monthly Cost With Taxes and Fees? 483
Kristl writes "I have called AT&T and walked into several AT&T stores to ask 'How much will an AT&T phone plan cost per month with taxes and fees and everything?'. No one can answer this question. They are evasive and become testy when I push them on it. Their answer is they can't tell me what the government is going to charge me as the fees can vary month to month, but I've been an AT&T customer for several years, and my taxes and fees have not varied more than a dollar in all of that time.
So I question them: 'Can you just tell me what the taxes and fees will be for a 3G plan in California that has the basic calling plan, basic data plan, and the basic text plan?' I even do the math for them, that's $75. Okay AT&T, what are the taxes and fees on $75? Oh, they can't tell me that, as the taxes and fees can vary from month to month." There's more to this justified rant (below); real-world numbers in comments could help answer the questions that cell carriers seem content to sidestep as completely as possible.
"Okay ATT, can you tell me what the taxes and fees were on $75 plan last month? No.Okay AT&T, cn you tell me what my taxes and fees were last month on my current $40 plan ... that only requires reading my bill right? Oh good! They can read! Yes they can tell me what the taxes and fees were on my $40 account last month.
Okay AT&T, we have progress ... can you now pull up a plan that has a $40 calling plan, a $30 3G data plan, and a $5 text plan? The answer? No, they can't do that, that would be an invasion of privacy.
So I ask, can they go through the motions of setting my account up for the iphone plan I described above and then tell me what the taxes and fees amount to? Oh, of course not!
This doesn't seem like it should be so hard. What is the conspiracy that ATT refuses to tell me what the my bill would cost per month were I to switch to a new plan?"
ever fill out a tax form? (Score:5, Informative)
Figuring out the taxes on a phone line is rather complimakated, difficult enough that providers have made mistakes on it in the past and had to refund overcharges or eat the difference in undercharges. I'm not surprised that the salespeople don't know, and I'd bet nobody on phone support will know either. This is a brand new service, and once customers start receiving their typical monthly bills you'll be able to find out.
It depends on the state... (Score:2, Informative)
Every state has a different way of taxing communications service. Florida is the worst of them all from what I've read. Take your current cell phone bill and estimate off the taxes currently on it. Some of the taxes and fees will be a fixed amount per line, others will be based on a percentage of the total bill (sales tax typically).
Also the way cell companies figure out how to tax you differs. Some (such as Sprint) base your taxes on the billing address, others (like Verizon Wireless) base your taxes on the area code your wireless number is located in.
I don't get the question (Score:2, Informative)
What kind of taxes are we talking about here? I can't think of any other than VAT/sales tax and those are pretty straight-forward. Are there any other taxes for cell phones in the US which are directly charged to the consumer?
Ask on a cell phone forum (Score:2, Informative)
The taxes will probably be comparable to sales tax--a few bucks on a $40 plan, e.g. With a more expensive (e.g. data) plan it will of course be more, but if you're willing to shell out $60 or whatever for a data plan you should also be prepared to shell out $8 or whatever in taxes.
To get an approximation just google "XYZ plan taxes fees forum" and see what people say. For example:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?s=bace4f039998a970fb0736cb9659d8b2&p=4412192&postcount=11 [macrumors.com]
Peace out.
My 2c as a former Sprint retail employee (Score:5, Informative)
The answer is: They honestly have no idea. They're trained to say what corporate tells them.
Training typically focuses on trying to sell you on gizmo features and plan upgrades. They simply ARE NOT given that sort of info and, in my experience, the people that work these jobs are not the type to go the extra mile to figure it out or in some cases don't want to say the wrong thing and have an angry customer come back and throw the phone at them (seen it happen over the most marginal shit.)
iPhone 3G hack is out! (Score:3, Informative)
US Wireless Taxes (Score:5, Informative)
Are there any other taxes for cell phones in the US which are directly charged to the consumer?
Yes there are various excise taxes [wikipedia.org] levied on cell phone bills. The federal government as well as state and local government each levy their own taxes on wireless communications. This [taxfoundation.org] is a slightly outdated listing of taxes by state. For the most part it is a "because we can" sort of tax courtesy of our elected officials.
AT&T $20/month unlimited prepaid 3G data (Score:1, Informative)
My current mobile solution:
- Get the cheapest prepaid AT&T Phone
- Add $20/month unlimited data plan to prepaid phone
- Get unlocked Nokia N95-3
- Put prepaid phone's SIM card in N95
- Get fring or truphone for N95 to make calls
- Use email, IM, or twitter instead of SMS
http://www.mobile-weblog.com/50226711/att_offers_unlimited_prepaid_data.php [mobile-weblog.com]
Here's my t-mobile blackberry plan (Score:2, Informative)
I have a $30/month voice, $20/month data, and $5/month text plan. I'm billed in Garden Grove, CA.
Monthly Recurring Charges
Item Amount
FP BB BIS MC from 7/17/08 to 8/16/08 19.99
FP Nat'l Roaming from 7/17/08 to 8/16/08 -
FlexPay 300 MC from 7/17/08 to 8/16/08 29.99
Msg Bundle 400 MC from 7/17/08 to 8/16/08 4.99
Monthly Recurring Charges 54.97
Taxes, Fees and Surcharges
Item Amount
Government Fees and Taxes
Federal Universal Service Fund 0.77
State Sales Tax 3.88
City Utility Users Tax 3.23
Local Sales Tax 1.49
State 911 0.20
County 911 0.50
Regulatory Programs Fee* 0.86
Taxes, Fees and Surcharges 10.93
Total Charges 65.90
The shit sandwich question (Score:5, Informative)
I recall reading a comment here, not long ago, stating that dealing with mobile providers in the US was like 'choosing between shit sandwiches'. This, unfortunately, seems to reiterate that this is the case.
Over here in the UK, things are a lot better. If you don't like customer service, you change network. Simple as. I switched from Tesco Mobile (poor customer service on O2's otherwise excellent network) to 3 earlier this year, and the process was quite painless. Am I right in saying that having mobiles on contract is more common in the USA which is what makes dealing with providers such a nightmare?
Re:I don't get the question (Score:5, Informative)
On my (ATT but not iphone) bill, I pay:
Federal Universal Service Charge
Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge
911 Training Fee
State Sales Tax
911 Service Fee
The biggest one is state sales tax, followed by the FUSC, then 911 Service Fee. The Regulatory Cost and 911 Training are $0.25 -- the 911 bit is $0.05. I pay about $6 a month in fees, overall.
Re:I don't get the question (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know about other carriers, but here's how my T-mobile plan breaks down:
1000 Minute myFaves Family Plan
59.99 - Monthly plan price
1.32 - Federal Universal Service Fund
0.84 - State Gross Receipts Tax
4.20 - State Sales Tax
0.27 - State Universal Service Fund
Line 1 .08 - State Gross Receipts Tax .06 - State Sales Tax .03 - Relay Service Device Fund .50 - State 911 .86 - Regulatory Programs Fee*
5.99 - Internet
5.00 - 400 Text Messages Plan
Line 2
5.99 - Internet
0.45 - 2 text messages (no txt plan)
0.01 - Federal Universal Service Fund
0.01 - State Gross Receipts Tax
0.09 - State Sales Tax
0.03 - Relay Service Device Fund
0.50 - State 911
0.86 - Regulatory Programs Fee*
87.08 - Total
*Fee we (T-mobile) collect and retain to help cover our (T-mobile's) costs related to funding and complying with government mandates, programs and obligations.
just ask (Score:5, Informative)
I work for AT&T. Maybe you are just asking the wrong questions. Every time I activate a new customer I give them a print out of exactly how their first months bill and normal monthly bills will break down. This print out is avalible through any AT&T vendor and is called a CSS (Customer Service Summary) This print out breaks down everything on you bill including rate plan, data, messaging, extra services ( insurance, roadside assistants ...) taxes and fees broken down by which entity is charging which fees and taxes. Any good sales person will present you with this at the time of the sale. If you not getting one maybe you should consider going to a different AT&T store. Just like everyone else that franchises their business you are going to have good agents and bad agents.
Re:I don't get the question (Score:3, Informative)
My phone bill last month included the following:
Taxes:
Virginia 911 tax: 0.75
Virginia sales tax: 1.70
Surcharges (the phone company is permitted by the government to assess these charges due to specific regulations and requirements that the government places upon them):
Federal Universal Service Fund [wikipedia.org]: 0.77
Virginia Gross Receipts: 0.16
Virginia Special Revenue: 0.03
Other charges:
Administrative Charge: 0.75
Regulatory Charge: 0.20
That's on a normally $35 bill.
Re:Biased much? (Score:2, Informative)
So for roughly $34 a month, I get:
-500 'anytime' minutes
-Unlimited text/pic/video
-Unlimited data
-Unlimited Sprint-to-Sprint calling
-Free nights start at 7pm
-Free nationwide roaming (i.e., no 'Local calling area')
As I hinted earlier, this was not an advertised plan, and did involve some work on my part, but my 45-60 minutes of work seems worth it seeing as most pay double or triple for similar plans, even within sprint.
Mt point is, while most advertised plans may be $100-$120, I see that much more like the sticker price on a new car, than say the price of a TV at walmart.
Re:The shit sandwich question (Score:5, Informative)
Am I right in saying that having mobiles on contract is more common in the USA which is what makes dealing with providers such a nightmare?
Yes. On this side of the puddle, phones are heavily subsidized... To the point that some phones are "free" with a 2-year contract.
GSM is relatively new here (as in, it's not what we started with, unlike many other parts of the world), as well, and this makes things more complicated. If I have a Verizon Wireless (which, until the merger of AT&T and Cingular was the largest carrier) phone, I can't take it to any other provider, because VZW uses CDMA. T-Mobile and AT&T are GSM, but GSM coverage isn't nearly as widespread here. Once you're out in the sticks, if you've got a GSM phone, you're lucky to get service.
We're in the stone-age here.
Fees, fees, fees (Score:1, Informative)
Here's a sample from my ~$50 plan (Verizon).
Taxes & Surcharges $8.46
Made up of:
Verizon Wireless Surcharges and Other Charges & Credits $3.93
- Fed Universal Service Charge 1.13
- Regulatory Charge 0.07
- Administrative Charge 0.85
- Muni Telecomm Lic. Surchg 1.88
Taxes, Governmental Surcharges & Fees $4.53
- State 911 Surcharge 0.08
- Emergency Svc (Pcc) Charge 0.07
- State Universal Srvc Charge 0.27
- Local E911 Surcharge 0.61
- State Sales Tax 2.48
- Cnty Sales Tax 0.83
- City Sales Tax 0.19
My favorite fee is indicated. It translates as we charge you an arbitrary fee because we can.
That was easy (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Biased much? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:simple solution (Score:4, Informative)
Here in Austin, elsewhere is Cricket Wireless. In Dallas, I think it's MetroPCS. Sure, the national carriers screw everyone over... but the smaller ones tend to be a little more up-front with their customers.
Re:ever fill out a tax form? (Score:2, Informative)
I'm always amazed at the complexities of the tax system in the US (and many other countries).
In NZ, The only Sales tax we have a 12.5% GST Tax (Goods and Services). That's it. Doesn't vary from postcode to postcode. And its included in the price tag of the product, so no needing to figure out the cash in hand price.
There are some petrol excises/taxes, but they're transparent to the user (i.e. built into the price of the petrol) and not deductible.
It's good to be a small country, with no hassles over which state collects the tax, etc...
Australia really botched up adopting GST several years back. They looked at the NZ model, but decided to make exceptions, which are just outright painful. Tax cooked chicken but not raw? But don't tax cold cooked chicken? Yikes! GST Food Guide [ato.gov.au].
My 70 Dollar ATT plan (Score:5, Informative)
I feel your pain (Score:4, Informative)
I actually went through those same steps with AT&T's dsl/cell/homephone plans. I asked a very simple question: how much would my monthly bill be assuming there are no surcharges? Here's a brief rundown of my conversation.
Happy Customer:So, i have these 3 plans, home phone for $9.95, cell service for $34.95, and internet service for $49.95 (numbers could be off), assuming i don't go over on minutes or anything extra like that, how much would that be with taxes and surcharges?
AT&T rep:about $20 a month, on average.
Happy Customer: Can you be more specific?
AT&T rep: I'm sorry sir, there simply isn't a way to calculate that in our system.
Happy Customer: Ok, well can you tell me what taxes are included and what percentage they are?
AT&T rep: It's all calculated with a formula in our system.
Happy Customer: Ok, can i have the formula?
AT&T rep: It's in our program, i can't access it. Honestly sir your only the second person in five years that has asked for that. I would only be able to tell you what taxes were on a previous bill.
Happy Customer: So let me get this straight, your saying that i would have to sign up for a contract with AT&T and sign a blank check for the first month before you would tell me how much it would be?
AT&T rep: Yes sir, is there anything else i can help you with today?
Happy Customer: Sure, get me the number for Verizon wireless and Time warner.
Oh, and just so you know? it took about 4 days of emailing and phone calls just to get them to admit it. Whenever the question came up i would get transfered to a different sales rep to repeat my question. Clever huh?
Re:simple solution (Score:5, Informative)
and where is elsewhere? Seriously, when they're all doing it where is elsewhere???
Virgin Mobile. NO extra fees. At all. Why they say 10$, they mean 10$. Just add sales tax.
Re:ever fill out a tax form? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The shit sandwich question (Score:3, Informative)
GSM is an evolutionary dead end. What the European companies had to do was to swallow their pride and adopt an evolution of the CDMA model. They call this UMTS, but it's really just Wideband CDMA. They took CDMA, quadrupled the band size (to 5 MHz from 1.2288 MHz) and reversed a bunch of the bit definitions in the air interface (power control being the best example here) to avoid CDMA patents. The only part of GSM that was carried over was SIMs, which was a good choice. The lack of a SIM like device is my only gripe with CDMA.
Re:My 70 Dollar ATT plan (Score:2, Informative)
Arg... (Score:2, Informative)
I work for a ATT Call center as a rep, and ill tell you why, most of the reps just dont care, when someone asks me i just do a 2% tax and tell them thats the best i can do really, we really have no idea what the costs could be,
ATT CLM (Cancel Dept)
Re:My 2c as a former Sprint retail employee (Score:3, Informative)
sales reps can always make you eligible for new phones, the catch? your contract gets extended from the END of your existing contract. if laws get changed to the point where companies can't do that, then of course sales reps won't be able to make you eligible for new phones.
it is a little counter intuitive though, if they didn't give you a new free phone all the time, wouldn't they make more money off you if you stayed with them without getting a new phone? although, if you're upgrading to a phone that has more features (read more stuff to bill for) it does make sense, since even if you get basic, you'll pay more than you were with phone without the fancy features.
Look to Norway (Score:5, Informative)
The main difference that can make a cell phone much cheaper in Norway than here in the US, is that you don't pay for incoming calls. There's no "air time". You only pay for outgoing calls, just like with a land line phone.
Another big difference is that in Norway, you have close to 100% geographical coverage, and that's a country that's sparser populated than almost all US states, with lots of mountains and only a couple of percent arable land.
And, as you hinted at, it's common to buy phones and plans separately, with no long term bindings where you get a "free" phone designed to lock you to just one provider.
In all three cases, this is due to legislation. Funny thing is, the cell phone companies there still make money. There's more than 100% market penetration for cell phones in Scandinavia. "Everyone" has at least one cell phone, and some have several. So my guess is that what they make the money by selling more, not by squeezing more.
What you get for 50% (Score:5, Informative)
Because I know people are probably going to choke on a figure like that, people need to be aware that because the taxes are so high in a place like Norway, they have a lot more government-provided services, stuff that we have to pay out the wazoo for in the U.S. Heath care [meulie.net] is an obvious one. Obviously, I suppose it's ultimately up to individuals whether or not they want government paying for stuff for them. My personal opinion is that here in America, unfortunately, companies and our government are so corrupt that it couldn't possibly work.
But the point is that even if your taxes are 50% in Norway but only 35% here, it's entirely possible that your disposable income—and by extension, your standard of living—could actually be better.
Incidentally, the richest people here in America don't actually pay 35%. The dirty little secret that rich people don't want you to know because you'd probably vote it out of existence is that the tax rate on the wealthy is closer to 15%, which is much lower than you or I likely pay. (What's your marginal income tax rate? [invest-2win.com]) The reason is because wealthy people don't earn most of their money through income—you know, salary and wages. Income earned by the really wealthy comes from capital gains (i.e. stocks, bonds, and other investment devices), which is only taxed at 15%.
Re:It depends on the state... (Score:5, Informative)
That's why they have a web page that tells you what your charges are for your area:
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/additionalcharges/ [att.com]
State
CALIFORNIA
Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge
0.43
Federal Universal Service Fund
11.4%
State Universal Service Fund
$0.00
Other AT&T Surcharges
0.18%
Believe it or not they actually tell you what the charges are for. This is 150 times better than what we had when I was younger. Training is an issue in any retail store, but before hitting the slashdot front page, maybe a bit of googling is in order.
weasel words, still doesn't answer the question (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Reduce your cell-phone taxes -- switch zip code (Score:3, Informative)
This would be illegal in several jurisdictions. Just hope you never get caught doing that.
Re:What you get for 50% (Score:1, Informative)
After reading what you have written, I'll present a contrarian view so that my fellow readers have a well balanced perspective:
I submit to you that the wealthy in the US pay a stunning amount of the nation's tax burden.
- The top 1% of tax payers pay roughly 30% of all taxes.
- The top 5% of tax payers pay over 50% of all taxes.
- The top 10% of tax payers pay over 65% of all taxes.
- Tax payers below the median income level earn roughly 15% of the income, but pay around 5% of the taxes.
Re:That was easy (Score:5, Informative)
Well, I'm not American, so I don't know many zip codes. So I just plugged in the only one I do know: 90210
Here's the lovely summary at the top:
So, this represents the most AT&T will charge you - would be nicer if it was exact, but an upper cap sounds good. But what's the next sentence? There will be other taxes & fees not listed?
Given that I entered a zip code, the federal, state, and local governments in question are all known. But the page doesn't list these fees. In other words, just like the OP's complaint - AT&T doesn't tell you what your costs will be upfront.
Sorry, but both you and AT&T fail.
Re:simple solution (Score:4, Informative)