Getting an Independent Project Started? 229
nightgeometry writes "Just as everyone has a book in them, as the saying goes, maybe everyone has a software project in them. I have an idea for a project; it is something I would want, but googling doesn't find me anything similar. My programming skills are not amazing, to say the least, but I can design and QA. I'd happily learn to code, but lets face it — getting to a good standard would take me years, by which time I would be bored of the project. So, my question is: in this situation, should I set up a project on SourceForge and hope to attract some developers there? (And if so, how do I attract developers?) Should I try a rent-a-coder type of site and outsource the work, or perhaps attempt to approach developers personally and share the idea, or something else entirely? I think the project could be worth something, but I'd certainly open source the idea if it got me the app I want. Then again, I am happy to invest some cash in the idea, and thus cover said outsource costs — it isn't a huge project that I am considering, and I really think a competent developer could probably get the thing done in a week or less (I'm not in cloud cuckoo land here; I've worked in the software industry for over ten years, and I'm confident that it's a fairly simple idea). To me, the question is interesting in two ways. Once I have a specific idea, what are next steps? Then, in general, what do people do at this stage (and this isn't specifically a software question; it would apply just as well if I thought I had a good design for a new engine or a new type of beer)?"
Re:First... (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Get people interested in your ideas.
2. Get them to subscribe to your newsletter.
3. ???
4. Profit!
I will respond to your meme with another meme:
I am interested in your ideas, where can I sign up for your newsletter.
Re:Ideas are cheap (Score:1, Interesting)
Let me rephrase without the BS: he's not smart enough to do it.
Re:Ideas are cheap (Score:5, Interesting)
On the Kvr Audio/DSP forum they have the following sticky:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=194452
It says basically, that A. Programmers want to scratch their own itches, if you want them to scratch yours, you need to pay them.
B. Non-programmers have no idea how hard or big a certain project would be, because even experienced programmers rarely fully do.
and C. If you want to get attention you have to tell people what the idea is, because keeping it secrete (so no one steals it, ostensibly) only suggests that you are vain and have unrealistic expectations.
rentacoder (Score:2, Interesting)
I've been in the software development business for 25 years and I'm one of those Rentacoder contractors (top 200). I use the site to make initial contacts -- kinda 'get to know you' projects. If I get along with the buyer, then we move the relationship outside of RAC.
I'll tell you this from my experience... I don't deal with people who hide their idea behind NDAs. I don't have the time to spend teasing the idea out of you before I can evaluate it and calculate an expected effort/cost. Unless you have something that's patentable (but I guess what isn't these days) AND are willing to spend the cash to get it patented, just post your idea out in plain view. You'll get responses and an idea of how much it will cost -- or no responses and an idea that it isn't as easy as you think.
Nobody will steal your idea and do it themselves for two reasons. First, we're all too busy with what we're already doing. And second, making money at packaged software requires marketing, a support infrastructure, and a commitment to the product. I'm not set up for that. I'm just writing code.
Once you get a finished product out of a RAC coder, its yours. You can do whatever you want with it, including posting it on SourceForge. That gets your project off the ground and now you've got a second audience that will decide if it is worthwhile.
Re:Ideas are cheap (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to second the comment.
I have on my back-up drive about 30 half-dead projects I did for different purposes. Few of them are usable. Many of them were merely proof-of-concept stuff. Probably none of them has any new ideas.
I'd say, Web search engines now are the most impeding factor for programmer's ego: whatever brilliant idea one could possibly come up, some research shows that it is not new. Or it was tried before and failed. Or you have already in Debian repo a ready tool to do the work.
I do not know how to attract people to projects. All I can say (from my personal experience) it is pointless to try to attract people actively (but I say that in real life too - and I'm still single).
Best one can do is to keep working on idea (regardless of what Google says). If you really persistent, if you somehow publish the record that you are doing it - Google would do the rest for you. Point is that other programmers might stick with some active project simply out of curiosity. And after some time, if project still interests them, they might also contribute. That's how many projects have started. The most important bit here: somebody has to be ready to be a center of project and also has to work actively on the project. Others have to have something to tag along with.
P.S. Another parallel from real life. It is often said that (as opposed to women) there is no friendship among men. They just happen to look and go in the same direction. Or to the programming: if you keep developing idea in direction others can follow you, other would follow you - accidentally.
Here is my contribution (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not sure you'll read this but I hope so.
I'm about to start to learn how to program on my own, just for fun. For me it's to become better at certain computer challenges and to see if I'd like it enough to change career and start a B.Sc in computer science next year. That being said...
I read a lot on the subject and there are languages that are powerful and yet easy enough to learn. I'm especially thinking about Python since this is the language I decided to pick up.
In order to decide if this language is for you, read the foreword and the preface of "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist, 2nd edition". This open source textbook can be found here: http://openbookproject.net//thinkCSpy/ [openbookproject.net]
I also found a lot of info on the Python wiki: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide [python.org]
I hope this helps you decide.
Here is the quote from "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist, 2nd edition" that explains why to pick up Python.
How and why I came to use Python
In 1999, the College Board's Advanced Placement (AP) Computer Science exam was given in C++ for the first time. As in many high schools throughout the country, the decision to change languages had a direct impact on the computer science curriculum at Yorktown High School in Arlington, Virginia, where I teach. Up to this point, Pascal was the language of instruction in both our first-year and AP courses. In keeping with past practice of giving students two years of exposure to the same language, we made the decision to switch to C++ in the first-year course for the 1997-98 school year so that we would be in step with the College Board's change for the AP course the following year.
Two years later, I was convinced that C++ was a poor choice to use for introducing students to computer science. While it is certainly a very powerful programming language, it is also an extremely difficult language to learn and teach. I found myself constantly fighting with C++'s difficult syntax and multiple ways of doing things, and I was losing many students unnecessarily as a result. Convinced there had to be a better language choice for our first-year class, I went looking for an alternative to C++.
I needed a language that would run on the machines in our GNU/Linux lab as well as on the Windows and Macintosh platforms most students have at home. I wanted it to be free software, so that students could use it at home regardless of their income. I wanted a language that was used by professional programmers, and one that had an active developer community around it. It had to support both procedural and object-oriented programming. And most importantly, it had to be easy to learn and teach. When I investigated the choices with these goals in mind, Python stood out as the best candidate for the job.
I asked one of Yorktown's talented students, Matt Ahrens, to give Python a try. In two months he not only learned the language but wrote an application called pyTicket that enabled our staff to report technology problems via the Web. I knew that Matt could not have finished an application of that scale in so short a time in C++, and this accomplishment, combined with Matt's positive assessment of Python, suggested that Python was the solution I was looking for.
Re:Ideas are cheap (Score:5, Interesting)
[...] if you somehow publish the record that you are doing it - Google would do the rest for you.
Forgot to mention a not really fitting example of how Web search is effective.
Some time ago I was literally driven nuts by one new feature of VIM. I spent some time digging and after many attempts found a solution: how to disable the feature.
So I have published on my blog (that was three years ago) a half-inflammatory post about where the hell modern text editors are headed to with the solution to my problem. Google did the rest: now the post has about 30 comments, most of which are "Thanks for info" ones. And I did precisely nothing to promote that I have found a solution to that particular problem.
So somehow publishing your idea with implementation sketch - even on blog - is a good start.
SF.net is also good place and I used it successfully several times. It works really well for making releases. With source code hosting I had some problems. Posting news there (or more to the point: finding something posted on SF.net) is not simple, so I would advise to use some simple blog for your pet project. (Or probably by now SF.net has some service similar to blogs.)
Re:Next steps...? (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know that the poster actually cares if he owns the idea or not. He simply stated that he wants to be able to use the program he's envisioning. If it's an open source product or even a closed source product that he has to purchase, that's ok. Making money from the project didn't seem to be the high priority here. His issue is that he doesn't currently have the skill to create it himself and feels there is probably a faster way to complete the project rather than spending the time to learn how to program first. He's even willing to pay for the development, but wants to know how to do so in the most efficient manner.
Personally, if it's something useful that others would find useful, he should probably just post the idea. It could very well be that a similar project already exists, or someone out there is working on something similar and just hasn't had the motivation to complete it yet. Even if someone runs with the idea, writes the program and sells a million copies, he can still buy one of them and he'll be happy.
-Restil
Re:Have you been approached?? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've found this works when you're approached by an "ideas" guy. Ask:
a. So what do you think our odds of success are?
b. So how much do you think this idea will make?
c. How long would I need to work on it?
d. What cut were you offering me again?
Calculate (a) times (b) times (d). Determine a fair amount of pay. Multiply it by eight. If they're being rude or disrespectful, double it again. This is your consulting rate. Multiply this rate by (c) to determine what it would cost to pay you to do the project at this rate.
In the rare event that the first number is less than the second, you simply explain about your consulting rate, and explain that it simply isn't profitable for you.
In the more common case (optimism) that the first is greater than the second, say it sounds like a great idea, but you are going to propose something that is even more profitable to them. Say you'll work on it for them at your consulting rate. Explain that based on their figures, factoring in the odds, they'll make even more money if they do it this way. All they need to do is track down the seed funds to pay for your time. Show them the figures to show how it would be more profitable to them.
If they say they don't have the money, mention the potential profits again. Ask why they aren't keen to do the legwork to find the money (loans, etc) when this approach is the most profitable to them.
If they bring up what you could potentially make if you went for the profit share, say that it's fine, but the risks and rewards belong with the person who originated the idea. If it's a success, they deserve the extra profits. You're happy to help them realise their idea, if they like, at your consulting rate.
If they say they want to split the risks, say the exact same thing.
Generally in the following discussion the real risks and rewards will come up, and they'll give up and leave you alone.
If they're actually keen to go ahead and find the money (extremely rare- never happened to me), weigh up whether the deadline and project is actually realistic. Explain the risks and potential problems that may come up, and that the nature of development is such that you can't guarantee success. If they're still game, congratulations, you've landed a consulting gig at a premium rate. If not, they've left you alone.