Trading the Markets With FOSS Software? 417
Robert writes "Along with many other techies, I share an interest in the world of finance (bubble-era stock options pulled me in). Unfortunately, as someone with a strong preference for GNU/Linux as my operating system of choice, I have found that software in this area seems quite sparse. For awhile I have made do with Python, R, Gnumeric, Gnucash and a telephone, along with some small utilities I have written myself. What I would like to know is: what FOSS software do you use for financial analysis, trading, system development, and testing in a Un*x environment? Are there programs you would like to see written or ported? Do any brokerages, data providers, or other services provide good support for we the few? And finally, what commercial entities do you know of that are using FOSS software in their operation?"
The NYSE runs linux (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmmm (Score:4, Interesting)
Lehman, Merrill, AIG, HBOS all used lots of FOSS IIRC.
Screw automated trading; screw Ben Bernanke, screw McCain-Bush. I'm going to be foreclosed because I lost my job in the operations dept at Merrill and I can't refinance my mortgage. Why should they get a bailout? Quants screwed over my life and I want them to pay.
Web-based vs Desktop vs Palmtop (Score:3, Interesting)
I've started looking at this too as i've picked up some stock recently, and it is a difficult proposition (given that i'm not really willing to pay for a commercial solution).
Personally, I absolutely love the interface of Google's stock ticker - the interface is nice, the information is top notch. The problem being of course that there's way in any of the nine layers i'd trust google with my portfolio information. The big advantage of a local program in my mind is that the information you put in, even if it is only "I want to track these stocks" is kept wholly to yourself and not stored on some remote server where you have to trust the hoster not to take a peek.
In the end i've been using the default stock program that came on the iPhone to watch the stock prices. Thats all it will do, that and a short graph history, and it uses the yahoo info instead of the google, but it's close to realtime and it's stored (I hope) on the iPhone. Course, Yahoo can still see which stocks i'm requesting, so maybe in the end it makes no difference.
Ideal would be a device-based solution that could draw down the information, either from google/yahoo or direct from the *sx, and hold information regarding you portfolio too - but locally, so theres no worry of the monetary values being shunted across the net to the infovores.
Re:EclipseTrader (Score:3, Interesting)
Well if you want to go with a proprietary trading tool that runs well on Linux, the "think or swim" trading platform/brokerage has a Java Client that runs on Linux.
Who allows you to trade by computer? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is there anywhere a small can find a computerised market in the first place? Are there firms who allow specifies a communications protocol and lets you to trade by computer or does one have to do web scraping to automate things?
Re:Hmmm (Score:1, Interesting)
>The housing bubble, which is undoubtedly the cause of the economic downturn
Undoubtedly the cause? The single cause?
Really?
We spend enough on military crap to buy everybody in the country a new house every year,
and you blame the whole economic collapse on the reduction of a few percentage points of value in a fixed asset that most people would not liquidate *anyway*....
Re:Hmmm (Score:1, Interesting)
When I took the mortgage out 8 years ago I budgeted for being able to afford 3 months out of work without any problems. But mortgage interest rates have gone crazy. LIBOR isn't my problem, I'm just a cog. And if they're not going to refinance then how is it my fault.
Screw you too.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
You need to inform yourself. First of all, the housing bubble was primarily fueled by errors on Wall Street, not Washington. The explosive growth of the mortgage-backed security industry created an environment that gave people lots of incentive to do really stupid things, like loan people money without requiring them to invest significantly in what they were purchasing or demonstrate that they had the money to pay back the loan. Secondly, here [businessweek.com] is just one of many available articles explaining that the really big hit has come from borrowers with good credit ratings and sufficient cash flow who simply do not wish to continue to pay the mortgage on a house that is no longer worth nearly what they paid for it. It turns out that you can default on your mortgage and all they can take is your house, not your other assets (who knew?).
Anyway, it's certainly not "authoritative," but here [google.com] is a funny and true cartoon that does a pretty fair job of explaining how the screwed up incentives turned normal people in financial fuck-up machines.
Re:Hmmm (Score:3, Interesting)
>Next time buy what you can afford.
Many did, and then saw the economy collapse around them, changing the nature of "what they can afford".
Some of these were unable to liquidate their real estate, because to do so would require them to literally pay a mortgage on the amount of money that the property declined by.
In my case, it has forced me to decline certain job opportunities because relocation is not an option, because of real estate values. (I would not seek, nor do I believe anyone will offer, a $45,000 relocation bonus to start, and that's what it would cost me to walk away from my home, never mind the fact that I like where I'm living and would prefer a *benefit*, not just a break-even proposition, for relocating.)
My story is not at all uncommon. I'm not bankrupt, but I'm at the threshold. And I have university degrees, more than a decade of experience, and the real estate in question is a modest property.
Re:Interactive Brokers's Java trading platform (TW (Score:3, Interesting)
If you're going the Interactive Brokers approach, JBookTrader and JSystemTrader are both worth a look: http://code.google.com/p/jbooktrader/ [google.com] and http://groups.google.com/group/jsystemtrader [google.com]
Re:Hmmm (Score:1, Interesting)
The AIG deal was fully collateralized, the rate was MUCH higher than AIG could have gotten from another institution (if only they had more insight), and AIG had to give up a controlling interest in the company (to the US taxpayer). The Fed's bailout was hardly a great deal for AIG.
Attn: twitter sockpuppet (Score:1, Interesting)
http://slashdot.org/~willyhill/journal/205317 [slashdot.org]
Re:doofus (Score:4, Interesting)
Wake up and smell the fascism ??? How about, wake up and smell the socialism?
Uh, how about, "Wake up and smell the Crony Capitalism"?
Re:doofus (Score:5, Interesting)
All the little stockholders at AIG are getting the shaft.
Uh, I think that was a foregone conclusion when they hired inept management.
It was essential that every stockholder in AIG lose virtually everything they invested. Otherwise it becomes profitable to mismanage your company and let Uncle Sam buy you out.
I think that some of these resuces were necessary for the good of the greater economy. Sure, they shouldn't be necessary, but regulators messed up and now for the sake of not collapsing into a depression we need to clean up.
If I were in charge the only thing I'd do differently when doing bailouts like these would be:
1. Company is 100% taken over.
2. Stock is declared void. Stockholders get a 1-time eminent domain payment of (value of company assets)-(cost to taxpayers for bailout)/(# shares outstanding). Frankly the stockholders should be happy they don't end up owing money which is what the math certainly will work out to.
3. Corporate officers arrested and face heavy criminal penalties. Costing the taxpayers billions of dollars needs to be made a serious crime. It is certainly worse than robbing the corner store.
4. Government runs company in such a way to preserve the general economy.
5. Eventually company is either dissolved or IPO'ed - with all proceeds going to taxpayers.
If this were how bailouts worked you wouldn't see too many executives asking for them.
Don't get me wrong - the preference is in general to let companies just go bankrupt and not interfere. But, if interference is needed for the greater good than this is how it should be done.
Re:Bush is still culpable (Score:4, Interesting)
What we have had has not been proper regulation, but it has not been "laissez-faire" either because the politicians have been butting in and urging the big boys on Wall Street to make money available to people who couldn't afford their houses! That was the point which I made. As you can see, that's not laissez-faire; that's government meddling with the markets as usual, but this time in a form that isn't regulation.
So you see, we both agree with each other that there hasn't been proper regulation, but it's unfair to say that "laissez-faire" has failed when it hasn't even really been applied.
I mean, think about it. It's no coincidence that all of these huge firms which have lasted decades upon decades and have withstood countless trials, including the Great Depression, are now all failing at the same time right now. Under a "laissez-faire" market, that would be one big coincidence.
Re:Don't waste your time (Score:2, Interesting)
anyone who is that serious about trading needs to invest in a Bloomberg terminal [billpapa.org]
Only if they are either a professional or very well off. AFAIK, a Bloomberg terminal costs $2,000 a month. Of course, the rate may have come down a bit in the last couple of years, but probably not enough for a person trading his / her individual account, unless he/she is quite well off ...
Re: Personal Stock Streamer (Score:2, Interesting)
While it's not open source you could give Personal Stock Streamer a try:
http://www.personalstockstreamer.com/ [personalst...reamer.com]
It's free to use for non-professionals if you use it with your TD AMERITRADE account. There's a VBscript and C++ API for creating your own indicators, reports and extensions.
Re:Let me save you the trouble (Score:3, Interesting)
Windows runs the low-end personal chickenshit version of everything. Besides Windows, trading firms run trading and trading management software on AIX, HP/UX, Solaris, OS/400, HP NonStop, Open VMS, MVS.....
Re:Let me save you the trouble (Score:1, Interesting)
To be fair, I should add that our trade execution systems are all running on Windows.
No real reason for that apart from the fact that our head of operations likes Windows. I didn't dare to mention to him that the LSE was running Windows when it went offline for an entire day last week...
All you need to do is go look at photos of trading floors from the 90's and all you see is SparcStations.
The other posters here who are saying that linux has no place in trading operations clearly don't know what they are talking about. Most of the large scientific computing packages are design for a unix platform. And linux is a cheap platform on which to run your analysis.
Trade execution is no barrier either. The primary trade messaging protocol is the open standard XML called FIX (Financial Information Exchange).
The reason why you won't hear much in terms of recommendations for systems is that when it comes to large financial operations, your infrastructure is your lifeblood. Most systems are developed inhouse and little is open sourced. Sure, for smaller firms, you can get away with EclipseTrader and whipping up something to interchange with your brokerage.
Larger firms will have real-human traders, who get on the phone to execute. In addition, they'll have connections to their prime brokers, and to various electronic exchanges and then more code to interface with dark pools.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
You do know a 3-month T-bill was, at one point earlier this week, yielding less than par value? People were buying US government bonds guaranteed to lose money because of the fear that everything else would lose more value.
The Problem is Data (Score:3, Interesting)
The Fundamental Problem with FOSS for Finance (Score:2, Interesting)
Fundamentally FOSS and financial trading software are incompatible concepts. IE if you develop any software product of tangible use and value then it does not make sense for the author to leave it as a free product - when you can be making money out of it (and generally substantial amounts).
This was the pattern we saw. Many developers had started projects with good intentions, and as training exercises for themselves etc. but then after that they usually branched off to create a commercial product, or were hired by a financial institution which usually includes confidentiality in the contract.
Projects like EclipseTrader are a progression, but are quite a way behind the edge in terms of functionality - they are recreating tools which were commercial products some ten years ago - which is not to say it is not a useful tool, which it is.
It is the same reason that market data (share prices etc) is generally quite expensive in real time, but often free after 15 minutes. It is a bit like knowing who is the winner of a horse race - 5 minutes makes a big difference to the value of the information! For academic purposes, exchanges like Euronext (LIFFE) will provide tic level data all the way back if you ask nicely.
If you invented a trading system which could be shown to help generate a good income & profits - would you give it away for free?
- if you do please send me a copy!
Ben
Re: Personal Stock Streamer (Score:2, Interesting)