Job and Internship Salary Comparisons? 231
spydabyte writes "I'm a current undergraduate at the Georgia Institute of Technology and have been getting offers for internships next summer. I was wondering if there is a source of information on intern markets or how a market's competitive salaries are. How do you know if you're getting a decent offer or you deserve more when you're entering a (personally) new market? Is there a definite source? Do you have your favorite? I know that many factors matter, as in location, previous experience, etc., but I think there's more to find out besides asking for my friends' current offers. If not internships, how about full time or careers? Any ideas?"
If you're getting paid... (Score:5, Insightful)
well for an internship (Score:5, Insightful)
for an internship i'd say forget which pays you better. if you have multiple offers, get the one that you think will be better in the long run. IE they often hire interns full time, or they offer great networking capabilities, or which would be more challenging/fun/interesting.
don't worry about it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Take what you can get. (Score:5, Insightful)
For internships it is not about how much but what you will pick up. You can get paid say $15 with a big company but you just may be serving coffee. Or you can get $10 an hour as a smaller company and you are actually getting real work experience. Which may be the difference later on a starting real job out of college of $35,000 a year vs. $45,000 a year (depending on location and cost of living) Also check to see if the company is willing to hire you as a full paid employee after you graduate (with say preferential treatment) or you will have just the same opportunity as the rest.
More important (Score:4, Insightful)
Money is nice and I can appreciate that a broke college student would want to maximize that, but that's short-term thinking. I would focus on:
1) What sort of industry relationships can I foster. If there is one lesson I've learned, it's that the most critical factor in success is who you know. Both in finding future employment and mentoring relationships.
2) What skills can I learn *that will look on a resume*. New grads always complain about, "They want experience, but how can I get experience when they won't hire me???" Well, this is how. You want as much experience doing real work as possible.
Honestly, working for free is worth it if you can get really great situation that fulfills #1 and #2. Be patient. The paychecks will come. Take advantage of your opportunities first.
My Rule (Score:3, Insightful)
"Don't trade your time for money. Trade your time for experience. Then trade the experience for more money!" -Me.
Don't look only at dollars. Don't even look to who is going to value you most as an employee/intern. Look to fill that experience gap that you and everyone else has coming out of school.
Money Isn't the Issue (Score:1, Insightful)
Money should not be a huge consideration for internships. You will probably get paid poorly and that is fine. It's something you can put on your resume and more importantly you can learn real world skills rather than the crap they teach in college. Please don't decide on an internship based on money. To be honest, with just a degree and no experience, you are "worth" very little.
I am currently interning at GE, so I can say with authority that it is worth it for the real world skills alone.
Maybe I'm alone on this (Score:2, Insightful)
But I would worry less about what you'll get paid as an intern and more about what kind of experience you'll be getting and networking/employment opportunities after the internship is over. Whatever you would make as an intern would be a pittance anyway, so don't pass over long-term prospects just to make a couple hundred dollars extra.
Re:don't worry about it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed. Internships are there for looking impressive on your CV, not for making you rich. If you get paid, so much the better, but it's better to do something awesome and not get paid, than to get paid for doing something lame.
Paid for an intern job? (Score:3, Insightful)
I went to college a few years back, in the nineties, and I didn't get paid for an intern job. Neither did any of my classmates. Is that something companies do now?
Anyway, you are at the beginning of your career, so I wouldn't worry about the money for an intern. Intern with the most interesting job at the most interesting company, even if you have to do it for free. Then you will be off to a good start and learn something interesting.
As far as salaries, you can look at Dice.com, ComputerJobs.com, Monster.com, realrates.com etc and look to see "around" what people are paying.
But these are just ballpark figures. Its all in the negotiation and the what the company your working for is willing to pay ( and how bad they need your skills ). I've seen poor saps making less than 50K coding C++ with years of experience. And I've seen complete idiots pulling in 100 dollars an hour or more.
When you do look for that first job, negotiate good, interview a lot, be professional, and get as many offers as you can. Then you can pick and choose and have more leverage.
My internship: (Score:3, Insightful)
After six months, I was promoted to full time status at $46,000 per year. My salary has since increased to $70,000 per year.
Note that this is in the Midwest, where the cost of living is quite low.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
My Experience (Score:2, Insightful)
That said, it has been my experience that some companies believe that compensation is great in it of itself and others believe that they should pay you and keep you happy now so you will stick with them later.
A good example of this is an interview I once had where the interviewer kept pushing that "this is a paid internship, so it's very competitive". I sat there thinking that every company I've talked to is offering a paid internship. What's the big deal? Well, what set this company apart was its size. They were a 30 person company with a name in their field, but nothing special. Larger companies like Microsoft, IBM, Google, Oracle, AOL, etc. tend to offer significant compensation (>20/hr, or even >30 depending on class standing).
I've personally gotten offers from two of the above and accepted one of them this past summer. I felt as if I would be doing rewarding work for them which I could learn from. Luckily for me, it turned out I was right.
I implore you to keep in mind that the learning and experience gained is far more important that any monetary compensation gained (unless the money is necessary to maintain your enrollment and general wellbeing). With that in mind, I have been pursuing jobs from larger companies and interviewing with them. The interview is a two way channel where the company learns more about me and I them. If the results are satisfactory for both parties, then we move forward. To be explicit, use the interview as an opportunity to gauge how rewarding the job opportunity may be. That, combined with the monetary compensation should be the basis for your decision.
Good luck (and don't be greedy)!
Re:don't worry about it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Internships are like modern apprenticeships. They are to gain experience working with a professional, preferably one as experience and respected in their field as possible. Its also extremely helpful if said professional has some talent at teaching.
If at all possible you should decide on an internship based on reports from people who have interned there previously that you respect, plus information on how well regarded in their field the person or company to be interning with is.
Re:don't worry about it... (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree: this really depends on the field the person seeking the internship is entering, and whether or not that person is planning on graduate/postdoc studies leading to a career in academia. Certain areas of study (some of the engineering disciplines come to mind) pay very well for most of the positions available for doing very similar work, and it pays to look around. And as for those going to grad school long-term: getting a well-paying internship ahead of the stipend makes the bank account much less stressful to look at.
Then again, there's something to be said for actually enjoying the summer's (or semester's) work, and not everyone actually needs the money. So it really comes down to what's most important or necessary to the individual.
Re:well for an internship (Score:4, Insightful)
Agreed. Just like shouldn't didn't pick your college based on what's cheapest, you shouldn't pick an internship based on what pays best. You're doing both to boost your future earnings potential, not present earnings.
Networking and exposure to industry practices are far more important. Pick your internship based on these, and consider any pay a bonus.
Re:If you're getting paid... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the way it usually goes is that technical internships pay (I've not seen any that don't), and non-technical ones don't (some will give minimum wage). So I don't think "if they pay" is nearly and relevant as "if they hire you".
That being said, they're almost always ballpark $12/hr these days. Some will go as low as $10, and one company I knew used to pay $17+, but they since dropped to $12-ish as well. Either way, the pay's better than anything else, so don't worry about it; these things are mostly about resume building anyway.
One thing I will stress though (enough for it's own paragraph!) is to make sure the one you choose will have use for you. I've seen far too many interns twiddling their thumbs because they're poorly managed, and nobody wants to just sit there and kill time for a couple months. So make sure that the work is interesting and a priority (as much as one can expect for and intern) for the company. That's worth more than a couple extra bucks and hour.
Re:don't worry about it... (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
INterships are about (Score:4, Insightful)
contacts.
Which company is more likely to ahve contacts for your career goal?
Forget the intern salary numbers. Keep your eye on your end game.
Do you have any bills to pay? (Score:2, Insightful)
I was offered three IT internships while I was in school:
A wireless telecommunications company paid me over 17.00 an hour.
A cosmetic company offered to pay me 12.00 an hour.
A shipping company paid me 20.00 an hour.
The shipping company offered to take me on full time as an employee, but didn't pay me much more than what I was earning as an intern, plus I really didn't like the direction I was headed there.
After that I managed to find employment that offered me a better career path, and better compensation. So another piece of "advice", don't always take your first offer, unless you have to.
Re:glassdoor (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If you're getting paid... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:glassdoor (Score:2, Insightful)
That doesn't exactly detract from the argument. The U.S. government has put a lot of money into him, and he's leaving because he still feels unwelcome.
Re:Take what you can get. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes the value for engineers has dropped. But the job has also gotten a bit easier. 1986 there was a lot more hand based math that needed to be done which can be done in a split second in excel. We have the internet to allow us to see what other ideas people though of out of the box. Also CAD and Modeling systems help us do hundreds/millions of tests allowing engineers to focus more on the engineering and not a lot of the humanly tough grunt work. That said Engineering is still loss a lot of its value unproportionate for the work they do. But what else which happened was globalization, Love it or hate it, it is a fact of life, we are now competing globally for jobs. So where in the 1980's dealing with other engineers even in Japan. Was a major and expensive undertaking. To attract people to be good engineers they needed to pay them more. Today we can get a qualified engineer from India who would be happy to do all the work in India for 30k a year. So Paying 35-40k 5-10k more per year for American Engineers is in general paying for less overhead and easier language skills.
But are we better off then where we were before...
While we may not be making as much money in 2008 dollars as we did in 1986 dollars. We have some advantages.
Travel Costs have gone down. It is much easier and cheaper to fly to different locations today, then in 1986.
Back in 1986 a 32" TV was HUGE and cost thousands of dollars. Today we can get 57" TVs (considered Medium Large) for under a grand.
Computers you can get a good Computer under 1k and do most anything you want with it. Computers back in 1986 were 1k before optional add on like Monitor and Printers, And still most were not good enough to do work on them, they were only good for some games.
While the New Car cost 5 Grand back in 86 vs. 15 grand today. The average car in 86 usually did about 75,000 miles before you need a new one. Todays cars at the same price bracket can go 200,000 - 300,000 miles.
As the 4.50 movies back in 86, Today for about the same cost we can get 2 or 3 rentals watch them on our big 57" TVs at home.
So it is not as bad as people say.
Don't pick based on compensation (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:glassdoor (Score:4, Insightful)
He feels unwelcome because he's not considered a citizen yet. He's here on a visa. What rights does he not have that I do? Honestly, not many.
He can't collect Social Security, though he's paying into it. Neither can I right now. Eventually, I'll be able to; so will he.
Medicare is not available to him, nor is it available to me. Eventually, I'll be old enough to make use of it; so will he.
I can rely on the police, firemen and ambulances when I need them. So can he.
I can speak my mind freely, so can he.
I can bear arms. I'm not sure where the law stands as far as him and, honestly, I'd hope we're not allowing people who are here on visa to carry weapons. Again, something he'll be able to do once he becomes a citizen.
Possibly no right to bear arms for a few years seems a small price to pay for a free MD PhD. Hell, I'd give up my right to own a firearm for 10 years if the US Government was going to put my through premed, med school and postmed courses for that period of time. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Other than that, he really has every right I do.
If you don't like the terms, you shouldn't have signed up. Quit taking more than you're paying in, bitching about it the whole while, pack up and go home.
You're more than welcome here if you're willing to abide by the terms you agreed to when you came here. If you have a problem with that, why are you here in the first place?
Do a 180 and appreciate that you actually have more of an advantage in this country right now than many, if not most, who were BORN here. Then, I'll welcome you to my country. Hell, do that and I'll do whatever I can to make your new life here the best it can be.