Computer For a Child? 556
jameswing writes "I am thinking of buying a UMPC, such as an Eee PC or a Wind for my son, and wanted to get input from Slashdot. He is almost 2 and really curious about our computers, and anything electronic. I want to foster this in him, without having him on my desktop or laptop. I also don't really like the idea of getting one of those cheap 'Learning Laptops' that have a tiny screen and are really limited.
Does anybody have one that they use with their children? How sturdy is it? Will it stand up to a 2-year-old? If not, what are good alternatives?
What are your thoughts? Suggestions?"
Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Your son is not a prodigy. At "nearly 2" he's about ready for playing "What sound does this animal make?" games. With you though, not with some electronic babysitter.
This question is nonsensical. Come back in 3 years, and we can talk.
C'mon...this is crazy! (Score:5, Insightful)
Suggestion... (Score:2, Insightful)
DEFINATELY the OLPC (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a first day Give One Get One (G1G1) buyer of the OLPC, and although it certainly doesn't match the specs or convenience of the newer UMPCs, it is amazingly good at what it is designed for - an easy to use and super durable computer for children. Two is pretty young, they need to know not to smash the screen, but aside from that the OLPC has an excellent interface. There really isnt any competition. They just restarted the OLPC G1G1 on Amazon, but you can probably find one at a decent price on eBay - dont be in a rush and you'll get a good deal. You'll find it fun to play with too!
Elonex ONEt+ (Score:3, Insightful)
I ordered Elonex ONEt+ http://www.elonexone.co.uk/ [elonexone.co.uk] for my neice.. She will be 3years old in March.
It is currently available only for pre-booking and will be delivered by Christmas.
Gen Two (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's get realistic here. The kid doesn't read or even understand what the different keys on the keyboard are at this age. A conventional computer won't teach him that. Maybe you should set the bar within his reach for the next couple years. A toy computer that presents him with challenges that are appropriate for his cognitive level will be far more educational.
Refocus (Score:3, Insightful)
I would not want him staring at a computer screen. Show him printed text and he may read. I was before that age.
Interacting with a laptop is not the basis you want his brain to grow around.
However, there are infant games for computers. I had one for a mac years ago that drew things in red, black and white as small children are most attracted to red.
Getting ahead of yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Two-year-olds are not old enough to understand how to treat things gently. I don't think it's possible to make a laptop that can stand up to a two-year-old unless you encased the whole thing (including the keyboard) in about a two-inch thick layer of plastic. Two-year-olds throw terrible tantrums. They're known for it. They'll often smash things up when they're angry. When my step daughter was two and upset, she ripped every page out of Blueberries For Sal. They don't understand the consequences of their actions. Whether or not he's curious about computers, age two is too soon. Wait, at least, until he gets to an age where he doesn't throw tantrums (which will probably be a little before age three if you don't make a practice of giving in when he throws tantrums and will probably be about age fifteen otherwise).
At three, he'd at least be less likely to break it quickly. Personally, I'd probably wait until age four or so since he's more likely to have the needed cognitive skills to do things like recognize symbols at that age. But regardless of whether you wait until age three or age four, "almost two" is significantly too early for a computer.
Wait until he can READ! Unbelievable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
A toy laptop with only a spelling game on it is not limited if the kid is unable to spell, is it?
Wait until he can hold a pencil and write his name with it. Then consider getting him a computer.
The universal gift. (Score:5, Insightful)
--
Lost you job? Keep one eye open on craigslist.com http://www.bigattichouse.com/oneeyeopen.html [bigattichouse.com]
Re:Wait until he can READ! Unbelievable... (Score:4, Insightful)
Because it sounds like he is parenting for his own gratification by trying to force a "Mini-Me" identity upon his son instead of letting the child develop in a normal progression. It's disturbing.
Don't (Score:3, Insightful)
Two is too young for real mouse and keyboard control, although they might be enthralled by pictures on the screen. I'd argue that spending the money on some books and other play equipment (cheap and good: some big plastic "tweezers" and some little plastic objects to pick up - develops the quite specialised muscles and coordination they'll need to hold a pen for writing later on really well) would be a better course of action though.
Buying them their own laptop's a dumb idea if you expect them to take care of it. It'll get pulled off the table or have the lid shut with an object on the keyboard, and it'll die. Also, if you're giving them access to the charger, they might pull the AC cable out and stick it in their mouth, which wouldn't do them any good. Or they might accidentally short the battery and cause a fire. Or tip their juice over it. Or (as just happened to my other half's brand new Palm Centro) decide they like it so much they're going to dip it in the bath to clean it. I could go on. They're just not toddler-proof/friendly/suitable.
I've a two year old and a five year old. I wouldn't buy either a "real" laptop although my five year old likes sitting on my lap and playing simple kids web games sometimes, and can use a mouse and a keyboard. She'd rather draw with a pen, though, and learning to read and write is something best done on paper. My two year old is currently literally jumping up and down with sheer joy at the marble run we've just bought her.
My advice? If you want a netbook for yourself, buy one. If you want a toy for your kids, buy something else.
Having said all this, an iPhone is great for distracting small children by showing them pics of the family!
Read to the boy (Score:3, Insightful)
The best thing to do is read to him every night. By doing so, he will learn that reading is a rewarding activity. When he gets older, reading will not be a struggle, and from there he can do whatever he likes.
And he will want to use Daddy's laptop, even if he has his own.
Not an UMPC! (Score:4, Insightful)
An Asus EeePC or an MSI Wind are not to be considered UMPC. The concepts are different. UMPC are overgrown palm devices (or shrunken tablets, depending how you see it), with a touchscreen, and an emphasis on watching/listening media. Hence the name. They are usually quite expensive, do not have a normal keyboard or lack one completely - you are supposed to use the touchscreen for that, and since you are not expected to type a lot, that should be ok.
The category you are talking about should be called netbooks. They are notebooks which are smaller, cheaper, and slower than a typical notebook. Most of all, they are very portable without the price premium associated with an ultraportable notebook. The points here are price, form-factor, and intended purpose. Your typical netbook has a (smallish) notebook keyboard, perhaps not so much storage, but it will let you do - and expects you to - all the things you do with a normal notebook, providing you can put up with the small screen and keyboard.
, Ok, I will stop being a dick now and answer your question. Since so many people told you not to get any kind of computer, I won't do the same, but... anyways, consider an OLPC machine. It is supposed to be more sturdy, and the Sugar interface is (IMHO) a great way to teach children what computers are all about without being tied to the dominant GUI/OS.
That said, no matter how gifted your child is, he is still a 2 year old and so he is bound to shred the computer to little pieces. And eat them. So either get the cheapest one, or get a very sturdy one.
Hold on (Score:2, Insightful)
Furthering your kids natural curiousity should start with the regular things like nature and people. Why don't you find some friends for him to play with or have him memorize each species of every zoo in your range of travel? Seriously, there are TONS of other things you should get your kid involved in before plugging him into the naval cord of all evil in the world, what we like to call the internet. You know what it's for
If you really have to go through all that just to say "look he's 2 1/2 and compiles his own kernel" buy an old ruggedized laptop. They'll be affordable, powerful enough for the needs of every gaming enthusiast 2 year old. And they're less likely to end in a tragedy when you son decides he wants to show his good friend "sippy cup" what awesome gibberish he just posted on his myspace page. Jeez.
Spend time with your child... (Score:4, Insightful)
Talk a lot, play and bond, and let it learn directly from you. Computer is not a substitute for parenting.
That said, once your child is ready and interested get HP 50G programmable graphing calculator and let it master it! (RPN and simple but powerful programming constructs are available).
The device is still small and capable, but there is nothing like the satisfaction of knowing how it truly works.
Computers of today are too abstract and too separated from the metal, and you can't really feel you intimately know it any more (you know that feeling we had back in our childhood when we knew our Commodore 64's ROM addresses and functions they do. You don't get that any more).
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
He's not curious about your computers, he's just trying to do whatever it is you're doing. If you were reading a newspaper he'd be "interested in newspapers". If you were peeling potatoes he'd be "interested in starchy tubers".
From the sound of it you need to spend less time surfing the web and devote more time to the young person that YOU brought into the world.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
The parent and GP are totally correct. A 2 year old needs GUIDED learning, not "here's a small computer, go play".
Re:Too early for a "real" PC (Score:4, Insightful)
HEY! She could swallow those small keys and choke to death.
Do you want to be charged with inadvertent manslaughter charges?
My 3 1/2 yr old son pried off EACH key of my iBook a year ago when left alone with it. I mean every single damn key on the keyboard was on the floor when i entered.
Thankfully he has NEVER eaten anything not fed by me or his mom (no off-floor eating, etc). So he was safe.
Imagine if he put those things in his mouth?
NEVER EVER do that again, Understand? Unless you are planning to get rid of your daughter (you can drop her off at a Nevada hospital, you dumbass) Sorry am angry, but i still remember my scene vividly.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:3, Insightful)
Specifically about exposing children to technology, I'm against it. We don't really know how it affects their development, so I'll wait until they're 7, 8 or older to get them a computer. Right now I think it's more important for them to use their imagination than a computer, that's why I like so much to tell them oral stories.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
My ex-girlfriend has a daughter (several, actually). Back when we were together and the daughter was 4 or 5, she would sit there, hit keys at random and then I had to pronounce what she had just typed. She (and I, I suppose) had a lot of fun that way. That was *her* idea of a computer game. Then she started reconfiguring Windows 98 by hitting random key combinations. That got old fast.
I can't believe the o.p. is serious. No-one wants to tie an almost-2-year-old to a computer. Someone is having fun seeing how the Slashdot crowd react to something that crazy, seeing if anyone takes it seriously. Bingo.
he's too young (Score:4, Insightful)
give him a break... for a couple more years...
and btw. he will always end up on your laptop (even if you give him 10 alternative computers to play with) since forbidden fruit is always the sweetest...
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:2, Insightful)
When my kids were small, I did indeed sit them on my knee and let them "play" with the computer. The point being I was there; discussing, helping and guiding them.
Personally, I can't think of anything worse than leaving a small child to their own devices interacting with a screen, be it computer or TV.
By all means introduce a child to a computer at an early age, but do it in small doses and together.
In my experience children love computers, but when you do manage to drag them off and do something together that actually prefer it. The difficulty is detaching them from the system in the first place.
Don't be in a rush to plug 'em in too much, too quickly!
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:3, Insightful)
You're a jackass who either doesn't have kids or was such an obnoxious dipshit about having them that the other parents hated you.
Toddlers want to use the same things mommy and daddy have. They know the difference between a toy and the real thing. My son had several toy remotes before I finally bought a spare TiVo remote and gave it to him without batteries. He now leaves the remote alone, because he has one also.
This won't be an electronic babysitter - the guy wants something to distract the little brat. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd understand that it need to be durable because kids are FAST, not because he'll be left alone with it for extended periods of time. Hell, I wouldn't trust mine with a Toughbook.
I know the rest of the world seems simple from your mom's basement, but you really should shut the fuck up.
It's you, not him. (Score:3, Insightful)
Your child is interested in you, what your interests are. If you give him something that you don't use, he will lose interest fast. You are a father and, presumably, a husband... NOTHING IS YOURS ANYMORE. Get over your materialism, and let him play on your computer.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
When I was a child we had an old machine my dad had salvaged from the skip at work, when I was about 3 I started playing a simple maths game, I don't know whether it was my sister or parents who first put me playing it but I remember the game well.
It had a list of different games with counting and memory stuff, the one I remember best was the addition game.
It printed up something like "5+3=" in big primary coulors on a blue background with 5 baloons below the 5 and 3 baloons bellow the 3 etc. Hell the answer would never be more than 9 so there was only a handful of different sums.
It had a fairly awful voice synth which would speak the question and and then if you got it correct you'd get one of 4 or 5 silly complements "That's fantastic!" "great!" etc etc
Perfect for kids in other words.
It kept score in the bottom right corner with how many answers you'd got correct.
I'd sit in front of it for hours enthralled. My mother relates how I used to proudly march into the kitchen at age 3 and 4 and announce "I've got half a hundred!" "I've got a hundred!" etc
I'd love to find a copy of this or some updated version with better sound as it really was fantastic. Hell I'd be half tempted to write my own version of it if I ever had kids of my own.
I learned math before I ever learned how to read or write with a pencil. It was dull in school when we were being taught basic math and I was bored because the class was trying to understand the concept of plus and minus. But it put me ahead in math and once you're ahead it's easy to stay ahead.
I owe a great deal to that game and my family for sitting me in front of it. If anyone knows what this is called or where to find it I'd love to know who the dev was so I can thank them.
At the same time I wish my dad had sat down with me at a young age and taught me how to code a little.
He tended to hand me manuals which while fine for students tends to be a bit of a hurdle when you don't understand most of the words on the first page and get discouraged.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:1, Insightful)
How did the reply by Rogerborg get tagged as "5, Insightful"?! It's more along the lines of a Troll! The posting was asking for computer advice, not obnoxious parenting advice. I will never understand the rating system here.
Besides, *if* you have kids (those without who are responding are utterly unqualified to answer, no matter how opinionated they may be), you will notice that not very many young kids have a real interest in how a computer works (just go visit their classes in school), and many of those never had any real exposure to computers at home. Beeps and blips have a draw to some kids, but it is not what keeps them coming back.
Primarily because I work with computers, my kids were all very interested in computers at a very young age (sitting on my lap as babies when I was working from home, wanting to do what I am doing, etc). A simple "stress reliever" game, oddly enough, taught my kids how to use the mouse. An old keyboard with the cord cut off became a lot of fun for the kids to bang on when they we babies (but they quickly realized that it didn't do anything on the screen).
We used (and still use) a standard home-built tower machine with a wireless keyboard & mouse, and a 19" LCD monitor I picked up one black Friday ages ago.
I'd recommend a PC rather than something custom like a "learning pc" since you can aim for inexpensive/under-powered now since your child is so young, and you can upgrade it as needed over time. Try for a smaller case, though.. something that can hold a MicroATX motherboard so it won't be that obtrusive where ever you decide to put it. We have ours tucked in the corner of our family room (my kids are a bit older now, so we gain some comfort in being able to see what they are doing on the computer when they are on it, and they are only allowed (via squid) to certain sites, but that's another discussion) and the tower computer, while hidden, is still a bit bulky.
Still, you want to stick with something off the shelf because some of the kids learning games have odd requirements. Many of them, however, are built to run on Windows 98. :)
Like some responses have hinted, though, there is a balance between how much time they spend on the computer and how much time they spend with you. You need to use your own judgment when it comes to that.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:3, Insightful)
Also don't forget that kids love to imitate what they see the people around them doing, in this case the parents.
I agree with the grandparent though that a computer isn't something you should buy for a 2 year old: Just get off your own computer and play games: Much better for the development of their brains/body imho.
He/she still has plenty of years left to fudge about with computers; But you'll never ever have the chance again to play with toys all day.
I did this with both of my kids at age 2 (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I have a 3 year old (Score:2, Insightful)
and you should. anything within their reach will be broken or sticky.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:2, Insightful)
As a father of two (3 and 0.5):
Take him outdoors, dig holes, build a hut, explain how the trees grow and the cycle of the seasons.
As other posters have pointed out, come back in three years. He will be interested in what you are doing anyway and learn quickly when he's ready - but for now he needs to learn tons of other stuff.
--blametheduck
Re:Don't do it. Not yet. (Score:4, Insightful)
Naw - get him interested in one of the trades - that's where the real money is. Start an apprenticeship right out of high school and by the time his buddies have graduated with their law degrees and a pile of debt he could own his own plumbing business and be bringing it serious coin.
Get him a damn book (Score:4, Insightful)
Because a computer is pretty limited for them until s/he is able to read. Reading to your child from a book is a great way to not only socialize and bond with them, as well as getting their imagination active.
He might still want on your computer, which is fine, but find something simple for him to do (you might consider having a look at http://virtualapple.org/ [virtualapple.org] for some old, but good games.) and put him in your lap while he does it so you can help guide him, and keep your equipment from getting destroyed. No 2 year old should be on a computer alone.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, teach him how to use ping then...
Here is a user manual [amazon.com] more appropriate to his age range.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:2, Insightful)
Hey, why don't you read the f-ing question. The guy never said his kid was a prodigy, he said he wants to foster an apparent interest in computers and electronics. When I was a kid, I had similar interests, and my parents were shop workers.
To the parent asking the question: don't listen to these morons. Your kid is at a critical point in his life, fill his head with scientific and technical stimulus and he will be brilliant. Ignore his gifts and meet him at his level and he will be behind. Help your kid grow, get him an Eee, I think its sturdy enough.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
So... my point is, go buy an eee for yourself if your really wish it, and share your time with your son/daughter. Since one of the things you can do is playing a bit with the machine, go on.
Perhaps the real question is "How can I convince my wife to let me buy yet another gadget?"
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:3, Insightful)
I *hated* little kids toys when I was little, and they haven't changed that much in the 16 years span. I wanted things that were interesting and meaningful to me...
But, hey, that's me...
The kid who was reading at 2, skipped 2 grades in math classes, and reads technical manuals for fun.
Yeah... on second thought, don't listen to me. Your kid could end up TOTALLY fucked up.
Re:Oh, get over yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
Please forgive me my heinous crime of threadjacking, but I can't possibly reply to everyone so I'm just gonna aim for the top of the comments page.
This question has provoked a flood of condescending "OMG, YOU WANT TO LOCK YOUR TODDLER IN A ROOM WITH A COMPUTER AND NEVER INTERACT WITH HIM EVER? LEARN TO PARENT, SHITFACE" type of comments, and they're dumb.
Relax, guys. The OP didn't say anything about the level of involvement he wants to maintain with his kid's computer activities, he didn't ask you which laptop would make the best babysitter, he just asked about sturdiness and kid-friendliness.
For all you know, his plan is to do all of the hands-on stuff that you're lecturing him on, play some blinky, noisy sheep-goes-baa games together, and he just doesn't want to clean burp goo out of his work laptop. Maybe his plan is to gradually expand the computer activities as the kid's skills and autonomy grow.
I have noticed that Slashdotters, while not being an especially baby-having demographic themselves, are just full of haughty, authoritative-sounding advice about what kids need. Am I detecting some psychological projection here, or what?
your wondering why it's dark... (Score:3, Insightful)
wake up and realize that children as young as 2 need to develop various skills:physical, social, metacognition. a computer can capture their attention, and the ability to focus on something is an important step in metacognitive skills, but you're gonna turn your kid into an idiot if his early childhood development is poorly balanced with a computer at it's center...
buy your child toys that require him to exercise his brain and hands, like duplo/lego blocks, wooden stacking blocks, a trainset, or for that matter any early learning toy (there's alot of great early learning toys from germany, why don't you use the intertubes to look them up).
instead of buying him his own computer, let him use your computer TOGETHER WITH YOU, for carefully measured durations of time. in the mean time YOU need to LEARN how to interact with your child in meatspace, man. talk and sing and teach, build legos, take walks, fly a kite, be physically INTERACTIVE, not VIRTUAL.
deeper computer learning, and maybe his own computer might be more appropriate at age 5-7, not 2.
figure it out.
MOD PARENT UP (Score:5, Insightful)
The sort of response you are chastising is very typical of ask slashdot responses. And there is nothing wrong with using the computer (or the TV) as a babysitter now and then for a short time, in the same way that you give a child a toy to play with by themselves.
If you spent every waking moment with your child you would both go insane, and you'd never get anything else done - meals still have to be cooked, dishes have to be cleaned, clothes have to be washed, etc, and everyone needs a few minutes to chill out and relax for a few minutes.
Obviously if you expect your child to spend every waking minute in front of a TV or on a computer then something is wrong, but the OP never said that, and never even implied that.