How Will Recent Financial Downturns Affect IT Jobs? 372
An anonymous reader writes "So, with the financial crisis and loss of jobs everywhere, what are the chances of getting a good IT job? I'm going to graduate this year with a BS in Software Engineering majoring in Network Security. I'll be looking for a job as a penetration tester eventually, but I hear that is hard to get right out of college so I'll be looking for a job as a Junior Network Admin or similar type of job to start off in. Is there a lack of jobs in this field? I figure computers always need fixing so they have to have some sort of IT personnel on staff to maintain the core of their business. Anyone have a good insight on this issue?"
Re:Play the long game (Score:2, Interesting)
In five years, we'll be out of this slump
It may take much longer than that. After 1929, the stock market didn't reach its previous high until 1954. And that was with WWII in the middle. Japan hasn't come back from their 1989 crash yet. This recession may be "L-shaped".
The really depressing analysis is that not only is this the start of the Second Great Depression, it's when we start running out of key raw materials like oil, copper, etc. Slowly, industrial civilization, which is only two centuries old, winds down. The world becomes the Rust Belt. We end up with a sustainable society in which life is nasty, brutish, and short. Probably Islamic, too; Islam does well in dysfunctional societies.
Whatever you do, don't be idle! (Score:1, Interesting)
Absolutely don't be idle. Do something that you can put on your resume that isn't laughable. The less you can show for a longer period of time the more untouchable you become.
Volunteer for an open source project. Or start your own company making websites, shareware, or mobile apps.
No matter what you do, you bust your ass working. None of this play video games and watch TV in your parents basement while you wait around for a good idea. If you can point to it on the web and demo it, you're as good as hired if you want a job. If it's just a line on your resume with nothing substantial to demonstrate in an interview, forget it. You might as well have watched movies.
Obviously if you can do all this and have zero time unemployed (i.e. graduate with open source and/or commercial projects already in the wild), you will do even better.
Grad School (Score:3, Interesting)
Go to grad school while you wait for the economy to turn around. In fact, you might want to go for a PhD.
Re:Penetration Tester (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, it might be common jargon in the industry, but you need to really think about how you're marketing yourself. Talking about "penetration testing" at work could reasonably be viewed as creating a hostile or harassing work environment at any corporation that takes it's sexual harassment policies seriously. Moreover, if a woman in human resources scans "penetration testing" in your resume, how quick do you think it's going to take her to click 'delete' and toss your resume in the garbage? I'm guessing between 2 and 3 seconds.
"Security Auditor" is probably a much better term to use.
I Just Graduated (Score:4, Interesting)
The media called recession first. (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't you remember? Our government was BSing about "ooooohhh...we can't know yet, etc...", while all the "oh shit! recession!" stories were popping up.
You think the economy is going to turn around mid-2009? OK, I'll stick my neck out, you're fucking insane. You sound like a conservative talk radio pundit.
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this one's gonna stretch into 2010.
Oh, and for the submitter, you've got an OK chance...you're young and cheap. Salary and healthcare-wise. Don't feel so glum.
Re:As an interviewer I agree (Score:5, Interesting)
I hope you aren't relying on this hire to manage your backups or do anything else that you deem critical. If his attention to detail is that lax on something that is presumably important to him, imagine how lax it'll be on something that's important to you.
Re:Best Advice is to Stand Out (Score:5, Interesting)
Academia jobs, I believe, prefer people without experience because they aren't yet spoiled by the real world, just as corporations and such prefer people with as much experience as possible because they've "forgotten the useless crap from school".
So really, depends on what you want to do, but working in the real world both pays better and is, to me, more gratifying since you see your creations put to work instead of just being peer-reviewed and if you're lucky at one point adopted by a real-world guy.
Re:Best Advice is to Stand Out (Score:5, Interesting)
They will call and all that will be said is that yes you worked there. Short of getting fired and charged with a crime a previous employer will say very little during a reference check.
Believe it! This is policy where I work. The issue is the organization could be liable for causing an applicant to not get the position they were seeking. In other words, we would probably get sued for saying Bob* was a shitty dev. We will only verify past employment.
* My apologies to anyone named Bob or Robert.
Re:Best Advice is to Stand Out (Score:3, Interesting)
"Academia jobs, I believe, prefer people without experience because they aren't yet spoiled by the real world"
Academic jobs where you develop software tend to cap out at about half of what you should be able to get in the private sector.
That alone will give you some job security and there are some benefits to consider besides cash compensation. My academic job was fun, but paid under $50K. The reason I stayed was for tuition reimbursement (to the tune of almost $20K per *semester* for my spouse's professional program.) Even *with* that, it was less than half my previous salary, but, I had reasons for going into academia that went beyond money.
Re:Best Advice is to Stand Out (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, there are exceptions. I interviewed for a job a few years ago at SAIC and they asked for my college GPA back from 1981!
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Best Advice is to Stand Out (Score:3, Interesting)
Problem solving skills is HUGE. Of course, the only way to have a chance at proving you have problem solving skills is through your experience.
I cringe when my coworkers' first thought is to call tech support.
Re:Grades? Nah. Experience. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Best Advice is to Stand Out (Score:3, Interesting)
i can count on one hand the number of times my references have been called.
Seconded.
I was actually amazed a few months ago when someone called me asking for a reference regarding a colleague. It was the only time I've ever gotten a call for one, and I'm a reference for a number of people...
Re:Bullshit-"behavioral interviewing" (Score:5, Interesting)
With that being said, one problem I've faced in the past was never being seen as taking problems seriously. $WIDGET is down, everyone else is shouting, don't you appreciate the problem. Gee, I understand the problem, wrote the chapter on how to resolve it, and can give you a planning estimate (which is always longer than my internal estimate). I'm not freaking out because I don't feel the need to put on a show.
Oh by the way, when $SYSTEM was planned out, the stakeholders decided redundancy was too expensive. Would you like to review that decision? Learning to say that politely is still something that I have to approach carefully.