Linked In Or Out? 474
Mr_Whoopass writes "I am the IT Administrator for a regional restaurant chain, and as of late I am noticing more and more people sending me invitations to sites like LinkedIn, FaceBook, etc. Mother always taught me to be a skeptic, and, knowing more than the average Joe about how information can be used in this digital era, I am reticent to say the least about posting such personal details as my full name and where I work on the net for all to see. I have thus far managed to stay completely below the radar, and a search on Google has nothing on my real persona. However, now times are tough, and I see sales dropping in the industry I work in as it is a discretionary spending market to be sure. I wonder if I should loosen up on the paranoia a bit and start networking with some of these folks in case of the all too common layoff scenario that seems to be happening lately. What do other folks here think about this? I am specifically interested in what people who work in IT think (since I know that just about every moron who has 'Vice President' or sits on the 'Executive Team' is already on LinkedIn and has no clue about why they should be trying to protect their identity)."
You can't win if you don't play (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole social network phenomenon is a lot like the lottery:
* You can't win if you don't play.
* You can't loose if you don't play.
The price of admission to the social network game is:
* Loss of privacy.
* You may meet new people. Some may be good and others may be bad.
* Get a new free email account because harvesting emails out of social networks is the new hotness for small time spamtrepreneurs.
It's a lot like real life. The more friends you have the less private life is, and the more people want you to sign up for their MLM.
Degree (Score:5, Insightful)
The only site I use is LinkedIn, because it is a good way to keep a thin attachment to people who are just contacts, but people I don't want to loose touch with entirely. That to me is far different than telling people misc details about my life that I consider to be private.
Questionable advantage (Score:1, Insightful)
I am a very private and cautious person also when it comes to giving out personal information. I really doubt that your giving any personal information would actually bring in any substantial business and you would be best served by continuing to protect your identity.
It is entirely optional (Score:5, Insightful)
I love this stuff... It is all optional. There is no requirement to do it. Oh, but if you don't opt in, your life will suck.
My favorite is medical privacy forms:
I, James T Victim, hereby give my consent to Dr. Scrupulous to share every facet of my every bodily function, my entire medical history (including incriminating stuff I have to reveal for medical purposes), and my entire credit record to whomever may request it for whatever reason. I understand that I can refuse to allow this sharing, but then the doctor may deny me medical care and I will likely die a horrible, painful death.
Re:Questionable advantage (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends on how you use the sites and what you put on your profile. I have a lot of detail on my Facebook profile, but the only people who can see that information are the people on my friends list. My LinkedIn profile, which is geared for a more professional atmosphere, contains parts of my resume and my previous work history because I use it as a professional networking tool.
Facebook has really fine-grained privacy controls that allows you to restrict who in your networks can see your profile, what they can see, and when they can see it. You can even go as far as adding "friends" to limited profile lists that restricts what they can see or blocking them outright.
Use Social Networking to Defend Your Reputation (Score:5, Insightful)
Social networking sites can be one avenue in which you lose your privacy. However, there is another side to this coin. Namely, do you want to be able to make your identity online, or do you want others to determine your identity?
By using LinkedIN, Facebook and others, you can craft a very professional image that is put forth. In kind, you can be selective as to who you allow as a 'friend' or 'contact.' Therefor, your professional image retains intact.
Obviously you want to avoid posting pictures of you doing your last beer bong, or wearing a lampshade on your head, whilst posting white papers, and pictures of you presenting at conferences.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You can't win if you don't play (Score:5, Insightful)
As sites like LinkedIn grow in popularity, and as users learn to game the system to their advantage, I expect that the value of such services for hiring decisions will be diminished to the point where actual word of mouth matters as much as it did before the existence of the service.
You're afraid to send out a resume? (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait... so you're afraid to post your resume online?
Who cares what your name is and where you work? The Yellow Pages are more invasive. They give your home address and name.
When you meet someone at an informal function do you keep you name and place of employment secret as well? Just what exactly are you afraid someone would do with this information?
When you send out a resume do you just list "'Company A', 'Company B', and 'Company C'" on your empoyment history? Or do you write it out and then black it all out with a marker like a top secret intelligence report?
Stop waffling and start getting noticed online. I've gotten numerous job interviews that I didn't even apply for because people were reading forums and thought I sounded competant and knowledgable. In fact so far I've never needed to even apply for a job.
If the only people who know about you work in your server room that's as far as your reputation extends. If they google your name which would you rather them find: Nothing or an insightful blog on proper network security procedures and a list of glowing praise from your superiors and coworkers?
You are your name. That's your brand. Sell it! Make it famous!
Re:It propably won't.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:no offense.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Should have tried a nicely worded one instead. That worked in one go for me.
Re:Want a job? Get on LinkedIn (Score:5, Insightful)
LinkedIn shows to potential employers the professionals you know, which is valuable information to them.
Why? What specifically is valuable about people who know me? How does who I know affect how well I can do my job?
They can choose you above someone else because of the people you know, and will be incorporated in the company's network by hiring you.
Again, how exactly does who I know affect how competent I am at my job?
And if the answer is "it doesn't, but they might want to know anyway" - why isn't it possible that they might decide *not* to hire me, based on the people I know?
Re:It propably won't.. (Score:3, Insightful)
People don't hand out job offers, on or off LinkedIn. What may happen is recruiters may attempt to contact you if your profile is desirable.
I've had dozens of recruiters mail me through linked in over the last couple years, atleast one every couple of weeks. But that is missing the point. I'm less interested in making the recruiter's job easier and more interested in watching where my colleagues and former colleagues find new employment. *This* is the tool that is most interesting about linked in, traversing the connection tree of people you've work with from now to 10 years ago. And the person with the right mindset could use it to their advantage when looking for a new job.
Re:Questionable advantage (Score:2, Insightful)
...the only people who can see that information are the people on my friends list.
So can anybody with a subpoena. Or even without one nowadays.
Don't be too paranoid (Score:4, Insightful)
Consider this: your name, address and who you work for are hardly personal, private information (in most cases, at least). The first two anybody can find by opening the phone book. The last probably isn't instantly available to J. Random Passerby but generally isn't something you keep too private. I'd guess most of your friends know where you work, as does anybody they talk to about you. So I'm personally not too concerned about that information being on places like Facebook, Linkedin and the like. I actually put it up there myself so somebody else doesn't impersonate me or get mistaken for me (or if they do, I can point whoever's making the mistake at my page and point out that their mistake wasn't for my lack of having the correct entry up there).
Now, I'm not going to put details of my personal life up on those sites. It's strictly name, address, current employer, and a pointer to my Web site and resume. More than that, is not those social-networking sites are for as far as I'm concerned.
Re:You can't win if you don't play (Score:5, Insightful)
I chose LinkedIn to be my employment oriented networking site because nobody there cares what half-assed band you like.
Re:Want a job? Get on LinkedIn (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, I am first-level connected to several people who have written a moderately well-known RFC. I have more direct access to them than the average person, and I can pick their brain for free.
If I was hunting for a job in that particular field, then my connections might help, especially if the people doing the hiring know those names (even if they don't know the people personally).
On the other hand, I can't see a reason why somebody would not hire me just because I know somebody. For example, I have first-level connections to people that I have done business with (provided them consulting, etc.), but I'm not drinking buddies with (i.e., I don't know everything about them). Now, it's possible that those people are real slime except when dealing with me, but even if they are, it doesn't mean anything...I didn't say I recommended them, just that I know them.
Re:Want a job? Get on LinkedIn (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? What specifically is valuable about people who know me? How does who I know affect how well I can do my job?
Do you have soft skills? Do you have to work with other companies or service providers on a regular basis? It largely depends on what your company does, but there are a LOT of reasons why knowing people in a field is an advantage, and having someone you can work with to establish a relationship or you know has worked with someone (possibly difficult) before is an advantage.
Again, how exactly does who I know affect how competent I am at my job?
I suggest you talk to someone who makes a living getting people hired. Its about marketing your self. You could be the Stephen Hawking of computer programming but it means jack if you know no one and only have some very limited references.
Really, LinkedIn is a tool to use to your advantage if you need to. A very useful and underestimated tool. The advantages are fairly obvious and the drawbacks negligible. If you can't reason that out then again I suggest you speak with a career services professional to find out (provided you need to).
And if the answer is "it doesn't, but they might want to know anyway" - why isn't it possible that they might decide *not* to hire me, based on the people I know?
And that kind of arguing is called "self defeating". The vast majority of people will hire you despite who you know rather than not. If they think someone is a tool that's their problem. You don't have to let that become an issue. But if you are a medium sized business, knowing people is power.
Re:First questions first (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:no online id == no xp (Score:3, Insightful)
Which means you won't be hiring many mature non-narcissists.
As we both are currently doing, many people use a nom de plume on the web. As a sometime consultant this part ticularily useful - I can be honest in my opinions on line without embarassing clients who, for perfectly valid business reasons, chose a path other than "the right one".
Re:no online id == no xp (Score:3, Insightful)
Most IT professionals will at some time or another HAVE to do something they are unfamiliar with and have posted in a forum online a question on how to integrate or use a library or so on. This has nothing to do with being a narcissist. It has to do with searching for information. People who don't do this scare me as they think they can do everything themselves without asking for help. A person who knows their limits and knows how to ask for help is someone I want to hire plus I want to see their communication style.
Not having a trail signifies that you do not communicate, feel that you are a one man show or are inexperienced. All are red flags for hiring.
Re:You can't win if you don't play (Score:3, Insightful)
While there is truth in what you are saying, control constantly shifts between employe[e/r] in the game. For small companies, you will never be able to out-shine the "big guys". That doesn't make the pay or opportunity less, but it changes the advertising dynamics.
As for facebook profiles, it is hard to look at a potential candidate puking up a lung and take them serious. When you hire someone, it is hard to weigh sources of information, given the limited and controlled environment of an interview.
Re:First questions first (Score:5, Insightful)
Corrupt, not cowardly. Remember, it was a Brit (of the House of Lords in fact (read: unelected)) that invited him over to show to film. It was the home secretary of the elected government that got his visit rejected. I saw the interview of Lord Pearson (who invited him over) at Westminster, in front of a bunch of reporters representing various newspapers and tv channels, trying to educate them on the importance of free speech. I don't think there's a more fitting picture for the times we live, than one of our unelected, trying to convince members of the press, the importance of freedom of expression. "He should be free to say it, and we should be free to ridicule him for it". Never underestimage the driving force, the motivation, of saving face. This is how people learn. Taking it away does not have good consequences.
Re:Want a job? Get on LinkedIn (Score:4, Insightful)
...until they figure out that LinkedIn is just MySpace wearing a suit, and you don't really *know* the people you know.
Dance Monkey Boy, Dance. (Score:3, Insightful)
LOL!
I love your type, putting on airs and strutting around saying that you wouldn't work for me because you feel my online presence is inadequate.
I have the money that you want. Dance Monkey Boy, dance!
You can say that you weren't forced and you can convince yourself that you really wanted to dance, on your own time.
Bitch! Thy name is Owned!
Re:You can't win if you don't play (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not so much a question of whether we'll get along as it is a question of whether you'll embarrass me in front of a client. You taking bong hits in a FB pic implies that you have questionable judgment and you don't care who knows it.
Not saying that i've seen that pic of you. Just a for-example.
Re:Dance Monkey Boy, Dance. (Score:3, Insightful)
dur... I'm an engineer. I have an education that will give me a decent rate of pay compared to my neighbours almost anywhere on the planet. so, like all skilled professionals, I can be a little choosier...
I know you're just a troll, but I had to throw that out there, because I've actually turned down an employer once word got out among my alumni that they were doing this. not hiring someone because they have drunk photos of themselves on facebook implies all kinds of moral hypocrisy, because odds are you get drunk with friends too.
LinkedIn through the eyes of a headhunter (Score:2, Insightful)
In the past, headhunting was very much about who you knew, the company's own database, thrashing through newsfeeds, list of associations, etc., and a lot of cold calling. LinkedIn has, in a very short time, topped them all.
LinkedIn provides a headhunter with a database that updates itself and that constantly grows without much effort (each connection who adds a connection "expands" my network). It also gives direct access to top executives and allows the headhunter to read the executive's profile before speaking with him/her.
Through the eyes of the user, indeed, the entry price is a little loss of privacy, but I believe the gains outweigh the losses. A LinkedIn user enters the radar screen of headhunters, allows you to stay in touch with former colleagues and friends, and, who knows?!, lands you a job [linkedin.com].
Re:First questions first (Score:3, Insightful)
Now look around you, and at the GP post and see if you can see what I'm saying. There was no need to add sarcasm tags because this is far too serious a subject for sarcasm. Take a look at history, and you'll notice that the rise of the nazi party didn't have anything to do with gassing jews, it was all about better rights for the average German, a better deal for the German, because you can see how people who control all the money are fucking you over. If you can't see a parallel between those early days and the current situation in Europe viz Muslims and terrorism, you're not looking very hard. I could make a film just like the Dutch MP Geert Wilders but it would present Christianity in exactly the same light. Does that mean all Christians are terrorists ? Should such a pointless and deliberately divisive film be accorded the special honour of being presented to members of our government ? My point about it not being fair was taken from the attitude presented in an article written by a current member of the UK Liberal-Democrat party. I find that scary and as you noticed, childish. When the most moderate members of a democratic society find it necessary to stoop to hate speech and playground politics, I think we are all in danger.
I would have linked the MP's article, but I made the mistake 2 weeks ago (when I first came across it) of emailing said MP and calling him out on it. Consequently, and unsurprisingly, that article has disappeared from the NSS site ! But although I didn't think to make a note of the URL, I did copy the text -
Re:Want a job? Get on LinkedIn (Score:4, Insightful)
And frankly, that view of work as something which "we can personally accomplish" is outdated and does not scale in any company larger than a hundred or so people, maybe even less. There is virtually NO job description in IT at any company above a certain size which will not require you to be able to work with other people.
Let's please dispense with the ridiculous illusion that IT people don't have to have social skills to do their job effectively. That's a comforting conceit for those in IT who are socially inept, but it is not the reality. You do not have to be best friends with everybody you work with. You DO have to be able to communicate and interact with others in a professional manner.Maybe you're the only email server admin or domain admin guy, but then you've got dozens or hundreds or thousands of customers you've got to work with. Maybe you're a developer; chances are you have to work with dba's and technical writers and other developers and business folks.
Having a network on LinkedIn does not necessarily mean you are socially adept, but it is a bit of circumstantial evidence that at least a few people could handle working with your ass and didn't despise the experience enough to want nothing to do with you.
Re:You can't win if you don't play (Score:2, Insightful)
Be discretionary. Don't invite people to link with you or accepts invitations from others if you don't know and respect them. Don't endorse people unless you personally would jump through hoops to hire them yourself. LinkedIn can be either a great tool or a social networking farce - you can control which way you want it to go.