With a Computer Science Degree, an Old Man At 35? 918
GrApHiX42 writes "I pissed away my 20s and now I want to go to school and get a bachelor's degree in computer science. The thing is, I'll be 35 when I get out of school, and I've read on numerous sites that there seems to be some ageism going on in the IT industry when it comes to older geeks. What have some of the 'older' Slashdot readers experienced as far as being replaced or just plain not getting hired because IT is a 'young man's game'?"
Get the degree (Score:1, Informative)
I'm pushing 60 and only recently left the technical-production field (I'm still "technical" but more as an expert consultant than producer). Even when you're so long in an industry that the degree itself no longer matters for your day-to-day work, it will still open avenues for you.
Re:Yes, go for it. (Score:5, Informative)
Great, great, response. I know the poster is not asking whether or not he/she should do it, and I'm not really an "older" reader (currently trying not to piss my 20's away), but perhaps they'll find this useful as well.
You have a blessing in front of you in having a strong desire to do something, namely, to go to school and get your CS degree. If that's what you are passionate about right now then you need to take advantage of that energy and do it, because you'll make the most effective use of your effort by doing so. I am at a top CS program and many of my classmates are so-called "non-traditional" (read: have more life experience than your average student) students, and not only are they often the ones setting the curve, they ask the best questions, they are motivated, they take advantage of the opportunities available to them better than most, and all in all they enrich the quality of our program.
Some advice I might offer as a young student. Most of my friends who are older students tend to be a bit disconnected from the rest of the University. Don't make that mistake: as much as you might think so, you're not a graduate student, even if you're the same age as them, and your academic life does not only revolve around your department. At the very least, you'll have to fill gen ed requirements. More importantly, as an undergraduate, the university has resources that can be very helpful and enriching to your education. Make friends with some (highly motivated) younger students (even outside your dept) who tend to be more aware of these things and can help you get more connected.
You should be focused on your objective. But undergraduate college years are an excellent time to take some risks and go different directions than you may have previously seen yourself going. Do that: universities are breeding grounds for opportunity, and you might be surprised at what doors you might open for yourself by trying something new.
Good luck!
I was in a similar situation (Score:2, Informative)
i.e. Spent my 20's....experimenting.
I'm not sure it was pissed away, as I did learn a lot that isn't really taught anywhere, and keeping your head, while all about you are losing theirs, is a excellent ability that I feel my life experiences has given me. Early 30's decided I needed more direction, and of course I wanted to earn more than unskilled pay.
Cisco certs were the answer for me, easier than a degree, but still requires a certain level of self discipline.
They gave me the leverage to enter the internetworking field, in my 30's, and now with a decade of experience, I still look fairly secure even in these tough times.
I don't even want to think about where I may be if I hadn't got those pieces of paper.
It's almost impossible that you will be facepalming "If only I didn't have that pesky degree", and almost certain that it will be an advantage.
The correct piece of paper, will open doors.
I'm 35 and youngest in my department (Score:2, Informative)
I'm working for a leading worldwide business software provider in their SaaS division. I'm 35. I'm the youngest person on the team. While I have no doubt that ageism exists in IT, I'm very encouraged that the folks I work with are dedicated geeks of varying ages. This is also the best job I've ever had.
Go for the degree and keep a positive attitude.
Do you want to be a developer, or be in IT? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't know that Computer Science classes really prepare you for IT... one is developing applications and writing code, and the other is managing computers. Many, many people in lower-level IT positions don't even have bachelors degrees... they have associates or often less than that, but have gone to trade colleges or done some studying and gotten their MSCEs or other certifications.
If your heart is in computer science, then go for it. Go to college for 4 years, write a lot of code (really... many places when interviewing for entry-level positions with bachelors candidates will ask you how many lines of code you've written), really understand CS and a couple key langagues or paradigms (e.g. OOP or REST or whatever they're teaching now... I'm older than you ;-) and don't worry about it too much.
Again, IT is different, and who knows how IT in 4 years will look compared to IT today. I don't think 35 is too old for an entry level position... the key concern about age is desire and the ability to work. Few people at 25 have a wife and kids and other associated "lifestyle influences" to prevent them from regularly working 10-12 hours a day. People in their late 30s have all manner of excuses or other distractions they may deal with in entry level positions.
Re:Yes, go for it. (Score:5, Informative)
When it comes down to it, experience will trump a degree anyday... Let's face it... A degree means you were taught how things *should* work. Real world experience teaches you how things *really* work. The only way to get that real world experience is to do it.
If you don't have the experience, or just want the degree, then the degree is worth it.
However, please don't wave the degree around saying that "I, who have a degree, will trump you, who doesn't, every time". It's just not going to work out that way.
Now, if you have your degree, and experience then it's a more equal footing, and let the best person win. If a place only looks at the degree, then chances are, they're missing out on some of the most talented people in the field.
In 24 years, I've received job offers for every job I've interviewed for, and that's without any kind of degree, unless you count real world experience. I was lucky in that I was able to pick the job I wanted, and do the things I want to do. I work in a field that I've chosen as a hobby, as well as where my aptitude and interests are. It's fun to go to work on most days, and a learning experience, even on the days that aren't so fun.
Re:Yes, go for it. (Score:5, Informative)
It really depends on the company (Score:3, Informative)
that is doing the hiring.
Some companies hire young people because they know:
#1 They aren't married yet and are willing to work extra hours for no extra pay. have no spouse or children that need them at home after 5pm.
#2 They are willing to work for less because they have less experience than a 35 year old and up, so the company hires them at a below average salary.
#3 Management knows that younger people can handle stress more than older people, so they work the younger people harder.
#4 A younger person is less likely to need more benefits skips the 401K and insurance benefits, that help save the company money.
In reality these companies are run by scumbags and dirtbags and you are better off not working for them. They will cause you to get sicker until you eventually become like me and get too sick to work and end up on disability. If they do hire you, it will be at a below average salary with minimum benefits and a lot of overtime for no extra pay or bonuses.
What you need to do is research a company before applying for them, search the Internet for feedback to see if they are run by dirtbags or scumbags. There used to be a web site named f*ckedcompany.com but now I think people just resort to writing blogs or forums about their employers. But others exist Boss B*tchers [bossbitchers.com] Office Whisper [officewhisper.com] Jobvent [jobvent.com] and My Boss is a Jerk [mybossisajerk.com] to see if any of the companies you want to apply for have people complaining about them.
For older people you can always get a contract right to hire opportunity where they start you out on a six month or one year contract and if you work good enough they hire you on as an employee. You might like working as a contractor instead of an employee and you might earn more pay and fund your own health insurance and donate to an IRA.
Another option is to start up your own small business. Go to a community college to learn how to run a small business by their continuing education department and learn Quickbooks and Turbo Tax for filing the accounting and tax papers.
age can be a benefit (Score:3, Informative)
I'm pushing 30 and I find that many people (including employers) assume that you have experience in your chosen field just because of your age alone, even before they've seen your resume. If the choice for a position comes down to you and a pimply-faced youth just out of college, age can be huge advantage. A lot of employers look for maturity and intellect first, raw skills second.
And anyway, it's never the case that your resume is what gets you a job, although it might limit you to an entry-level position. Either a strong recommendation or an excellent interview will get you the job. And if you spend your next few years boning up on I.T. or whatever you want to do, the interview will be easier than you think.
Re:Yes, go for it. (Score:4, Informative)
Wow. That was completely uncalled for. Did you even pay attention at all>? Or did you read that one sentence, then decide to go off on a tirade? You obviously missed that I was pointing to the generation prior to home computers existing. I even ended my post with:
"Of course, the younger generation is getting older. So it's getting more and more common to see older programmers."
If you'd taken time to apply a critical eye to my post, you would have realized that I was referring to a traditional view brought on by a factual smaller size in workforce. When the number of computer-related jobs booms with the advent of the personal computer, is there any wonder that the young people growing up with those computers boom along with it? (You know, like yourself?)
I do not believe that age is a determining factor for the skill of a programmer. And as you quite aptly proved, age is also not a factor in determining if someone is an oversensitive jerk or not.
Re:Yes, go for it. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Yes, go for it. (Score:4, Informative)
Have you ever talked to a 21 year old?
Because I have. They hire plenty of them at my company and they are invariably about as smart as a bag of hammers. They're fairly obedient and most have a pretty good work ethic though, and their long term loyalty to the company was killed long ago.
I'm 41 and I will take that Pepsi challenge any day of the week and twice on Saturday at 7am. We can start with a one page written (in English, using appropriate grammar, spelling, capitalization, and punctuation) paper correlating the business of IT for the IT associated with their business. Maybe follow that with filling in a circle with all the major degree arcs (0, 30, 45, 60, 90, etc) and then penciling in the tan(), sin(), cos() at those points. While we are banging out math without the calculators, we can swing by the Kwik-E-Mart and buy random amounts of goods, pay for it with a 20 and see who can calculate the change we're going to get back faster, or maybe speed fill in the boxes in a multiplication table that goes up to 12x12. Random memorization not a good test? Ok lets switch it up to something more business appropriate, such as generalizing the differences between event driven programming and object oriented programming, or perhaps why using binary implementations to represent money isn't the brightest idea, and why overnormalizing a database used for reporting is going to result in unreasonably long wait times during the batch cycle. Maybe top if off with simply Googling each other and finding just how many pictures of us doing stupid (or illegal) shit on the net we can find of each other - because if anything says sharp as a tack, it's posting pictures of myself taking hits from the bong with seven gold medals around my neck.
Age and wisdom vs. youth and treachery - I will put my money on the old guy for the win.
-x-
Here's the easiest way to see it : ever watch a three year old playing with a ball in the living room? When the ball goes under the coffee table, and the kid goes under to get it - you know exactly what is going to happen next. The kid is going to stand up, full speed, and bang the hell out of his head on the underside of the table. It is going to happen faster than you can do anything to stop it, you wish you could jump down there to prevent it but you can't, and sure enough - BAM! followed by half an hour of crying. You knew it was going to happen before it even happened, you knew the kid didn't have a clue and was in for a world of hurt, and all you could do was watch it happen. The kid doesn't even know what he doesn't know yet, and at three years old simply believes the world revolves around him. Fast forward 20 years and it's the same story - different tabletops, different headaches.
Do It! (Score:3, Informative)
I have a good friend who did exactly what you're describing. We actually met in the CS program in college. He's now an IT manager doing very well. One of things he did well was take his previous work experience and leverage it in useful ways in IT.
I say go for it.