What Do You Call People Who "Do HTML"? 586
gilgongo writes "It's more than 10 years since people started making a living writing web page markup, yet the job title (and role) has yet to settle down. Not only that, but there are different types of people who write markup: those that approach the craft as essentially an integration task, and those that see it as part of UI design overall. The situation is further complicated by the existence of other roles in the workplace such as graphic designer and information architect. This is making recruitment for this role a real headache. So, how do you describe people who 'do HTML' (and CSS and maybe a bit of JavaScript and graphics manipulation)? Some job titles I've seen include: Design Technologist, Web Developer, Front-end Developer, HTML/CSS Developer, Client-side Developer and UI Engineer. Do you have any favourite job titles for this role?"
'Expendable' (Score:5, Insightful)
The time where 'doing HTML' (and CSS) was enough to give you a decent career is over imo.
Unemployed? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's this, a set up for a joke about unemployment?
In my more recent experience, html people are liberal arty types who pick up some web design to complement their other skills. Photographers, animators, graphical artists. Webapp designers usually have some html, but often you have a coder and a design person and they have different responsibilities.
HTML by itself just isn't a marketable skillset anymore. Hell, it's hard enough being a graphic artist, or a flash designer, or something like that, who also does html.
Markup Writer (Score:3, Insightful)
Design technologist? You're not designing anything.
UI Engineer? Sorry, you're not really engineering anything if you're only using HTML. Either that or you're writing bloated, non-semantic markup.
Front-end / Client Side Developer? If the front end is ONLY HTML (what a boring site)
Re:Not very bright in most cases (Score:4, Insightful)
But why should an employer pay for PHP when all he needs is the basic skills? The point of the question is that they need to hire some people with basic skills, but they don't know what to call the skillset.
BTW, I vote for "web layout artist".
Web Designer (Score:4, Insightful)
Web Designer. At least that title was used a lot in off-shores/out-sourcing companies I had to deal with.
Web Developer was also used, but to lesser extent and only to distinguish those who can also do JavaScript, PHP, Perl, etc.
Easiest way to find the word du jour is to check job listings.
Screwed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Screwed? (Score:2, Insightful)
Webmaster
It's old fashion, I like it.
Simple (Score:5, Insightful)
Those would be my definitions as they relate to the production of HTML. Betty, the lady who types things up, puts them into some simple HTML, and makes a few things italic or bold or adds images is a coder. Bob, who uses PHP to make dynamic pages, is a programmer. Jerry, who uses Dreamweaver to do both, is a designer.
Re:Screwed? (Score:5, Insightful)
A webmaster is someone who controls the content of a web site. It doesn't necessarily mean they "do HTML". they might just write a document in Word format and hand it to the web monkey to do up in HTML, or they might enter data into an HTML.
Whilst I refer to people who "do HTML" as web monkeys, I think Front End Developer might be what I'd put in a job ad. Strictly speaking, I think a Front End Developer should only apply to someone who knows Javascript too, but most web monkeys know a bit of that too.
Re:Screwed? (errata) (Score:4, Insightful)
Errata:
"or they might enter data into an HTML."
Should be:
"or they might enter data into a CMS."
Web Authors or Web Builders (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't let them fool you into thinking they're programmers ;)
Seriously though, HTML is usually a starting point and they usually go on to design or web programming. You have to start somewhere.
Funny or an idiot? (Score:4, Insightful)
How about child care? No money to be made there either?
Give me someone who can do proper HTML anytime over some jack of all trades who can do everything a little bit but is master of none.
Sure, if you think slashdot layout is good, then perhaps you don't need a html/css wizard but some of us have higher standards.
If you are serious about web apps you need just a good a HTML "coder" as a database expert and sysadmin as a coder and project manager.
But what to call it? No idea, the job is pretty rare on its own but as long as HTML is constantly evolving standard raped by every browser, only a handfull will be really good in it.
Re:'Expendable' (Score:5, Insightful)
The time where 'doing HTML' (and CSS) was enough to give you a decent career is over imo.
Aside from very specialized work or defense contracting, I think that's becoming true of all coding. More and more of it, especially the business development is going overseas or is being replaced by newer types of technology - see BPEL. Who needs a programmer when the accounting department can just draw their process and have something implement it.
And as far as those tools are concerned, you have the very rare CS person design those things and then have the overseas guys code that thing. Even then, all those CS folks that the developing countries are paying to be trained out of the tax dollars, will be able to design and develop their own systems cutting out us in the developed World. India is constantly weeding out the "dumb" folks and sending the smart ones to IIT or over here to study. Which means those of us who are average will be SOL.
There's no more room for average or above average folks anymore in the Globalized World. You are either exceptional or you're working at Walmart. I think the skilled trades are going to have a renaissance in popularity in a few years - that will be one of the few places where a young person will have a future. No wonder parents today are so concerned about their kids and hover around them!
Yes, I am extremely pessimistic about our futures.
Re:I just call them Web Designers (Score:2, Insightful)
Designers = artists. They plan layouts (often just static images and slide shows).
Developers = coders who realize a designer's plan.
Two different jobs, two different skill sets. Some (FEW!) people bridge the gap.
Re:Does anyone still write html? (Score:2, Insightful)
I know quite a few people that do, such as myself, simply because I find it faster to work. I can also make it easier to read in source code than the spaghetti code most of the GUI apps make, which means easier to track down issues, and there always are issues.
Re:I just call them Web Designers (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh god, not the "if you don't pass the PE test you can't call yourself an engineer" nonsense again.
Re:Funny or an idiot? (Score:5, Insightful)
Amen. Lots of people can "do HTML" - in Dreamweaver.
Give me someone who can create clean, syntactically correct, semantic markup. That's a rare gem, indeed.
Re:Funny or an idiot? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's harder than that (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? So there's a drag-and-drop program with nice visual effects that creates a standards-compliant page that works in all browsers, is accessible and resizable, and degrades gracefully when JS/CSS aren't available? Because last time I checked that was kinda hard.
Or were you thinking of crappy pages made in Microsoft FrontPage?
(Note: I sass you hesitantly because I recognize your username and remember you are a smart guy. :) )
Not an easy job... (Score:5, Insightful)
Depending on how you're developing your site and/or Web application, having a guy or gal that can take the designer's design mockup (usually still in .PSD format) and properly interpret it into clean HTML and CSS wireframes is a godsend for the Web Developers.
There's a lot of finesse involved in doing this right: you need to make sure it works in all browsers, that the page size isn't too large, and that it stretches and scrolls and wraps in all the right places. And no, Dreamweaver still doesn't cut it, so it takes quite a bit of skill and experience to do it right.
With experience, most of the good ones move either up or down the stack, depending on their interest/strengths, but we wouldn't have been able to complete several large client projects without our "HTML/CSS/JS/UI/stuck-between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place guy".
Re:Simple (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I just call them Web Designers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I just call them Web Designers (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I just call them Web Designers (Score:3, Insightful)
"Six munce ago I cudn't evin spel Injuneer - and now I are one."
Re:Screwed? (Score:1, Insightful)
> I mean, it's great to have someone available to handle that sort of thing, but can you really sustain a job with this as your only skill?
That depends on how much if it there is to do!
Re:Funny or an idiot? (Score:2, Insightful)
Good point.
I'd like to highlight another, and possibly even more scarce, skill:
Actually knowing how to optimize the stuff.
Knowing how to open up for good caching, using css-sprites for images, minimizing http-requests, and other things that improve performance and scalability is a real asset, and something that acually makes the front-end developer (which i prefer to call those people) worth it's salt.
wouldn't that depend... (Score:3, Insightful)
..on what the website that needs design and maintenance does in the first place? There's no such thing as a generic website, some are just for fun, and may be quite involved and complex, but aren't really designed to rake in cash, so no, it couldn't be self supporting for the web-person most likely, whereas others are designed from the start to be profitable, an e-commerce site for instance.
Just as a casual web surfer, I can see the difference between a well designed and easy to use site or not, and that has to come from someone or a team that has superior skills, and a lot of those folks DO make a living at it, so it is like any other job.
"Wow, all you can do really well is run this CNC machine, is that really enough to make a living? I mean, you can't build a house or run a vineyard, your skills are lacking from my own leetness, so you must be inferior to me"
"Can someone who only understands transmissions really expect to make a living at that, just that one
skill, when cars are so much more than just the transmission"?
What's your skill, and how do you justify your check? Really, what are you saying?
The only reasonable answer is, if you somehow get a check from that skill, and the check cashes. That's the only justification or criteria needed to determine if your skill set is adequate or not.
Re:Screwed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I just call them Web Designers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I just call them Web Designers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Screwed? (Score:3, Insightful)
You haven't looked at much secretaries lately, have you?
Re:Screwed? (Score:2, Insightful)
You're not a webmaster unless you maintain the web server.
If you maintain a web server you're a sys admin.
Personally, I prefer the term web developer. I don't care about the semantics of HTML/CSS vs scripting/coding because if you are in the profession, you damn well better know some scripting/coding. Otherwise all you're doing is writing a static page and you shouldn't be doing it for more than yourself. Once you know some scripting you know code. Once you know code you are a developer. Be it entry level, senior, guru, whatever.
Re:I just call them Web Designers (Score:4, Insightful)
Doctors of Philosophy and Doctors of Divinity probably outweigh Medical Doctors (you know, M.D.), even if you throw in Doctors of Dental Surgery (D.D.S.), or D.V.M.s (Doctors of Veterinary Medicine).
The question though is one of Credentials. You obviously wouldn't (and shouldn't) trust a Doctor of Philosophy to handle your medical needs, any more than you'd trust a Civic Engineer to design a circuit in place of an Electrical Engineer (though an E.E. usually can't wire their house since they'd need to be a Licensed Electrical Contractor).
So, the REAL question is "What are (or should be) the different type of "engineers" in the field of Computers, and what are (or should be) the qualifications/responsibilities for those titles?"
The main problem with Computer titles is one of standardization (especially odd considering how much computers rely on standardized protocols for communication :) ).
Re:Unemployed? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, but those "simple" pages WILL probably be functional, and beautiful (eye of the beholder), and render properly across all the major browsers.
The places you usually start hitting browser issues is when you start getting "fancy" (again, eye of the beholder :) ).
Some of the simplest web designs I've seen are incredibly useable, and close to 10 years old (with no updates).
Is the technology "old" that they are using? Yes.
Does it make the site less intuitive/useful/pretty/functional? Not as much as you'd imagine.
Re:Screwed? (Score:4, Insightful)
That's like saying "the basic syntax of C is a pretty small amount of knowledge...etc"
The difference between good and bad markup can mean a lot of things in terms of bandwidth, usability, ease of maintenance, and numerous other things. Not to say you shouldn't learn more (you could and should try to learn to be a web designer *and* a web developer), but there's a difference between just knowing all of the available tags and knowing how best to use them.
I would not presume to say I know the best way to do something based solely on how long I thought it would take me to memorize a specification's salient details.
Now, in most cases, if you're learning about web design ([X]HTML/CSS/javascript/basic image editing), you're learning other things, too, since static pages aren't much in demand these days, but in a big enough company, or on a big enough project, a dedicated web designer can be an incredibly useful resource, and offload plenty of cosmetic and layout work from the developers.
Re:Screwed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not necc. At least when those terms were common the system admin dealt with the OS and the hardware related issues.
So for example:
set up the raid = system admin
install apache = system admin
configure apache = webmaster
install perl = system admin
install mod perl = webmaster
You are right though the person in control of content was often the webmaster so:
put html files on development server = web developer
put html files on production server = webmaster
What do you call them? (Score:2, Insightful)
Developer implies your putting functionality in place.
Designer implies making is pretty, and at least some basic UI design.
A lot of web developers do both but most are only good at one or the other.
They're called PC users (Score:4, Insightful)
What do you call someone who does [b]UBB[/b]?
HTML and CSS are no more difficult nor deliberately accessible than what used to be called "word processing", but is now called "writing a letter".
Back in my day, typing and/or word processing were manditory high school courses. Do they even teach them anymore?
What do you call someone who uses a screwdriver? (Score:3, Insightful)
Depending on the context, you might call that person an electrician, or an auto mechanic, or a plumber, or a computer technician, or a housewife trying to change a battery.
HTML is a tool. A job title/description tends to be more about what you are expected to accomplish.
This can be confusing, because there is such a thing as a "C++ developer." Well, yeah, but what you really are is an application developer who uses C++. Your job is to develop applications. It just so happens that C++ is the primary (maybe even only) tool you need to accomplish that job, so that's what you get called.
I think the reason this particular skill has not acquired a standard job title is that HTML, by itself, is not really a tool you can use to accomplish a whole lot. To accomplish a complete task, you will need to use it in conjunction with graphic design tools, if you're designing an interface, or with database tools if you are designing an app, or something else.
So I'd say it depends on what you are expecting them to use HTML to accomplish, and what other skills they will need in order to accomplish that task.
As for whether HTML is a complete skill set -- well, imagine applying for a job as a plumber and saying, "well, I can't use a wrench, but I can use a screwdriver..."