Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Data Storage

How To Store Internal Hard Drives? 393

mike writes "I have been ripping all my movies and TV shows for easy viewing through a media PC. Because I would rather not rip everything again I'm looking for a simple backup solution. I'm considering a hard drive dock and several internal hard drives to use as 'disks' to back things up every once in a while but I don't know what the best way to store internal drives would be in the meantime. Could they sit together in any empty box and be OK, or would a number of externals be worth the slightly higher cost with fewer worries about storing them in the meantime?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

How To Store Internal Hard Drives?

Comments Filter:
  • ick, softraid (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Benanov ( 583592 ) <brian...kemp@@@member...fsf...org> on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @10:28AM (#27921717) Journal

    Unless it's one known for its ability to work on various and sundry drives (as opposed to identical ones), and probably built into whatever OS OP is running...don't recommend softraid.

    Controller card/motherboard goes, or enough drives go and all his data's gone.

  • by paulievox ( 1455189 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @10:31AM (#27921773)
    I like these guys: http://www.wiebetech.com/products/cases.php [wiebetech.com] It's an anti-static, somewhat shock-mounted plastic case for 3.5" drives. I've got about a dozen stacked in a rubbermaid box. It eliminates the stress of the drives banging into each other, even in anti-static bags. I've never dropped a drive inside one of these, but i'll bet it'd survive a modest height.
  • Point Missed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by travisd ( 35242 ) <travisd@[ ]as.net ['tub' in gap]> on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @10:35AM (#27921839) Homepage

    The OP already has the online storage covered. This is regarding using HDD's for offline (not spinning) storage. Even if they're not being accessed and are physically separate from the primary storage, you still are subject to wear (spinning platters) and things like power surges.

    Putting the dries back into their orignal enclosures, or perhaps an "OEM Pack" piece of foam (with anti-static bags) may be the best option. Better, consider putting the whole mess into a media-rated fire-safe.

  • Re:Easy solution (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cuby ( 832037 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @10:41AM (#27921955)
    Low reliability end energy inefficient. A P4 burns more or less 60w in idle. A drive easily use 15w. If the power supply has an 50% efficiency... that is perfectly normal for old cases. If you have 3 disks you use (60+3*15)*1.5= 157.5 w. Add more 20w to motherboard, memory and stuff and you get almost 180W in idle. This is a LOT after one year.

    If you are not still convinced. Try to imagine how to recover the raid array after one disk dies... Search the net and you'll find a lot of people that was unable to recover arrays because they used cheap hardware.

    Because of this I discarded NAS and similar solutions. I have external hard drives and I plug them as I need using USB. Put them away from kids, sun and humidity and they will be fine.
  • Amazon S3? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by plams ( 744927 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @10:47AM (#27922047) Homepage
    They don't guarantee you don't lose your data, but it's probably more safe than what you can come up with yourself.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @10:58AM (#27922233)

    I made a deal with a friend of mine. We each keep a backup of each others data. Its an off site fairly up to date replica of all our important data. We each have FTP servers running so everything is always available when needed. Neither of us run a RAID setup anymore. the money saved from not having to buy more disks and controllers allows us both to increase our total storage capacity as well. The chances that we will both have a drive fail or a disaster take out both servers are pretty slim too.

  • Re:Point Missed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nhtshot ( 198470 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @10:59AM (#27922245)

    When you need to back up, turn on the machine.

    When you're done, shut it down.

    Offline storage at it's finest.

  • by danpritts ( 54685 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @11:02AM (#27922305) Homepage

    Maybe not directly relevant to the OP's question but since I see a bunch of folks mentioning using RAID, i thought i'd chime in about RAID5 survivability.

    RAID5 protects you against one failure in a stripe. if you lose a drive, that's a failure. If you have a read error on a particular sector, that is another failure, and your data is gone.

    the probability of a read error *somewhere* on a 1TB drive is actually quite high.

    So, you lose a drive, you go to rebuild, you find you have a read error and can't get your data.

    This can mean a few things.

    1) lose a particular bit of data. Maybe you don't care, if you're archiving DVDs you'll probably cope just fine. If it's important data you'll be sad.

    2) can't rebuild your RAID. Some RAID controllers will just give up if they get a read error during a rebuild, so then you have to back up the recoverable portion of your data (probably the vast majority), rebuild the RAID, etc.

    I don't know how the various software RAIDs cope with this. I had this happen with a dell/lsilogic hardware raid card.

    In my case, the read error was not something i noticed when i backed up and restored the data onto a new raid, but the parity didn't match so it wouldn't rebuild. It very well may have been on an unused portion of the filesystem.

    solutions/mitigations:

    1) scrub your RAID5's regularly. this process checks everything over and fixes any errors while you still have a full RAID5 set. This will reduce your chance of failure greatly.

    2) use RAID6. it adds an extra drive's worth of redundancy.

    3) use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive [wikipedia.org] or some similar additional layer of redundancy.

    You should also consider running an OS that supports ZFS (FreeBSD, OpenSolaris, Nexenta). It has additional data checksumming that can help. ZFS has software raid built in.

    Several good blog posts on this subject here:
    http://blogs.sun.com/relling/tags/mttdl [sun.com]

    He talks specifically about Solaris & ZFS, but the reliability stuff is generally applicable. RAID-Z is basically equivalent to RAID5; RAID-Z2 is basically RAID6.

  • by toppavak ( 943659 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @11:08AM (#27922397)
    A great way to get free anti-static bags is to order samples from semiconductor companies like TI and Analog Devices. They'll send you free stuff wrapped up in decently sized anti-static bags. Great for if you only have a couple drives to store, but if you need 10, for example, just go ahead and buy some.
  • My approach... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by raw-sewage ( 679226 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @11:15AM (#27922515)

    I have two home-built servers: one is an always-on, live NAS; the other is a backup server that I power on only to do backups (or restores if it comes to that). First rule I go by: always use the slower 5400 RPM drives, such as the Western Digital "Green" [newegg.com] or the Samsung EcoGreen [newegg.com]. For both media streaming and backup purposes, these hard drives are still plenty fast. The biggest benefit, though, is that they use less energy (particularly important if your system is always on), and don't get as hot, making cooling much easier (which usually also translates to quieter).

    My live server is currently 4 x 1TB drives in RAID-5, using Linux software RAID. (I know RAID is no substitute for backup, but I still consider it "quasi" backup. But I also have real backup.) This system is fairly un-interesting: it's your typical DIY NAS.

    The backup server is housed in the Norco RPC-4020 [newegg.com]. For $300, you get 24 SATA hot-swap bays. That price is hard to beat. I haven't filled this case up with drives yet, and I have plenty of physical space going forward. The hardware is just some unused spare components I had lying around. Extra SATA ports are provided by the Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 [newegg.com] (which works fine in "regular" 32-bit PCI slots).

    This, IMO, is a pretty simple set up. I just power up the backup server whenever I need it, and turn it off when I'm done. I don't care about performance, since backups are always run as a batch job (typically over night).

    Before I bought that Norco case, I was just using individual drives with a Thermaltake BlacX [newegg.com] SATA-to-USB hard drive docking station. This is cheaper, just slightly less convenient. I did order 50 "zip lock"-style anti-static bags for $13. I ordered them from staticbags.com [staticbags.com] ("GRC Enterprises" was listed on my invoice). After I copied data to the drive and put it in an anti-static bag, I just added it to the stack of drives I had on my bookshelf. The Norco case definitely looks better! :)

    All in all, I consider my system fairly robust. It's only semi-secure against my stupidity, and since its all housed in the apartment, does not safeguard against fire. But since the media rips are just copies of DVDs I actually own, my insurance policy becomes the ultimate backup.

  • Re:Take your pick (Score:4, Insightful)

    by linear a ( 584575 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @11:31AM (#27922727)
    Don't forget to migrate to a new (set of) drives every 5 years or so. Drives get bigger and in my experience you can collapse 4-5 into 1 after that period. This assumes you end up with lots of drives. This also refreshes your copies of the data. Sidebar - watch out for your O/S silently converting long file names to 8.3 filenames if your filepathnames are too long (esp. if you lengthen the filepathname somehow).
  • Re:Easy solution (Score:3, Insightful)

    by camperdave ( 969942 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @11:59AM (#27923125) Journal
    My guess is that if the suggestion is to get a cheap used pc and stuff it full of drives, and raid them together, that the intention *is* for them to be powered on. Otherwise, why bother with the used machine? Just get a drive toaster as suggested elsewhere.
  • Re:Take your pick (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TooMuchToDo ( 882796 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:08PM (#27923245)
    Yes, because clearly, I'm the only person who points these things out. Hard drive or not, it's a little far-fetched that if you're a huge evil organization storing copies of people's brains, you're not keeping backups somewhere, or you're using small, easily damaged media where horrible things happen if it's destroyed. I can suspend disbelief for scifi, but not common sense.
  • Re:TPBB (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @02:25PM (#27925315)

    Parent should be modded insightful as well as funny. Because, if you take all the worthwhile data the average user produces in her or his lifetime you could probably fit it on one CD or even a floppy (1.4MB ;).

    Most data people have is just available and preserved in the cloud, which takes care of it as long as it is popular enough.

  • by DerekLyons ( 302214 ) <fairwater@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @02:46PM (#27925637) Homepage

    An awful lot of effort to store (in the article in question) movies and TV shows he'll probably never watch again.
     
    I've never understood the packrat mentality with movies and TV shows... I know people with literally thousands (tens of thousands?) of hours of TV shows and movies - what's the point?

Love may laugh at locksmiths, but he has a profound respect for money bags. -- Sidney Paternoster, "The Folly of the Wise"

Working...