Emigrating To a Freer Country? 1359
puroresu writes "I currently reside in the UK. In recent years I've seen privacy, free expression and civil liberties steadily eroded, and I can't see anything changing for the better any time soon. With people being banned from the UK for expressing (admittedly reprehensible) opinions, the continuing efforts to implement mandatory ID cards and the prospect of a Conservative government in the near future, I'm seriously considering emigrating to a less restrictive country. Which countries would you recommend in terms of freedom and privacy? Distance is not an issue, though a reasonable level of stability and provision of public services would be a bonus."
List of Countries (Score:5, Interesting)
Anarchy? (Score:5, Interesting)
A Banana republic with a little anarchy thrown in for good measure would probably be the most "free". Obviously, most people would like a little civilization thrown in for good measure. The trick is finding the right balance. My guess would be maybe one of the old eastern block countries. I would have no idea which one though.
Re:What languages? (Score:5, Interesting)
You need to learn to read between the layers a little.
Re:Economic Freedom (Score:5, Interesting)
That's a bit easy. What exactly do you disagree with in the listing? Or do you just go by the source, without actually doing an analysis of the presented facts?
Avoid the Failed or Failing States (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, you could weed out the countries NOT to emigrate to. The 2009 Failed State Index is out:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/06/22/the_2009_failed_states_index
I found their rating criteria exhaustive, but fair. It's basically a shopping list for what a good country should have.
No country is 100-percent free. (Score:2, Interesting)
You are free to say that you love America or that you hate America. Most Americans respect free speech. It is codified in our constitution, and the Supreme Court has consistently favored free speech.
The flip side of that freedom is that you are also free to die or, more likely, free to suffer serious health problems, and no one will care. The USA is undergoing the worst recession in decades. Many families have lost health insurance due to job loss. They cannot afford COBRA-mandated health insurance. The end result is that minor medical problems endured by insurance-less folks are simply ignored. These problems can eventually become lethal. For example, a tiny lump in a woman's breast can lead to death within a few years years.
In Europe, the state places more restrictions on speech, but the state also tends to provide more support to you in times of crisis.
Now, here is a revolutionary idea: tying more freedoms with more support from the state. In other words, the state provides universal healthcare but, at the same time, supports your right to utter any kind of speech that you want.
This revolutionary idea is taking hold in France. President Nicolas Sarkozy greatly admires American freedoms but supports state-sponsored social welfare programs like universal healthcare. I would bet good money that he personally wants to maximize freedom of speech -- including allowing outright condemnation of Islam. Such condemnation is considered hate speech in some European countries, and anyone who utters such speech can be banned from entry into those countries.
Bobby Fischer's a good guide (Score:3, Interesting)
what kind of freedoms? (Score:3, Interesting)
some countries have better economic freedom while less social freedom, which country you wish to move to depends on which of these are more important. if it's econ then pick one of the top countries listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom_historical_rankings [wikipedia.org]
if you want social freedom, countries in soe parts of europe are better; sweden, denmark, new zealand if outside of europe is ok.. overall between the two, switzerland is high on my own personal list.
Finland (Score:5, Interesting)
Finland, however has disadvantages such as, a very difficult native language, immigrating will be tougher than other nations, cold weather, and possible invasion from Russia. If you like Finland, but can't handle the language, you could try a different Scandinavian country, as they all share the same basic values.
You should find this link helpful, it has an immigration section. http://www.finlandforum.org/index.php [finlandforum.org]
Re:New Zealand (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What languages? (Score:2, Interesting)
Let's see, for English speakers we have:
UK: Getting worse
USA: Getting worse
Canada: Not too bad, probably following the US downhill though
Australia: Getting worse
New Zealand: Not too bad, probably following Australia downhill though
Best bet is somewhere with English as an official (or unofficial but popular) second language.
Ireland: Not too bad, probably following UK/EU downhill though
Fiji: Not too bad
Samoa: Not too bad
Tonga: Not too bad
India: Not too bad
Singapore: Getting worse
Hong Kong: Getting worse
So I'd say New Zealand, Ireland or Canada for less culture shock, but be prepared to shift again in a few years, or somewhere in the South Pacific, just watch out for the coups that happen every few years.
Re:Sorry but ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, UK has one of the highest standards of living in the world.
LOL. I now earn less than I did in the UK, but my standard of living is dramatically higher... I suspect that's true of most of Europe and North America.
I don't know how anyone can suggest that Britain has a high standard of living, unless you're comparing it to some third-world crap-hole. The cost of living is among the highest in the developed world and you get crap for it.
Re:List of Countries (Score:3, Interesting)
Why not stay in your own country and fight for those rights? Run as an independent for government. Organize resistance to the plans.
How about Australia or Canada?
I'm in Australia at the moment, broadband prices arn't amazing, and they're trying to implement a useless filter, but generally speaking the police are nice and we're universally known for hating our politicians (more then most countries).
Even if the government wanted to implement some scheme to restrict freedoms, it would mean they would have to actually go about doing some governmental work. That's something that rarely happens here. For example our *entire* government, including some state governments, spent the last two weeks trying to work out who made up some email about some car dealer.
We're also notoriously fickle when it comes to freedoms and politics. The public doesn't vote along party lines so much as they do for a lesser wanker (idiot).
Re:List of Countries (Score:3, Interesting)
I live in Alberta and frankly, I think it's the best place on earth right now. We have lots of oil, clean water, food, great doctors and hospitals and on and on.
The province is not for everyone though. We have very strong libertarian tendencies. People are nice, but also want to be left alone to do their own thing.
To the submitter: you want a place more free than UK? Come to Canada, specifically Alberta. If you can take the culture, you'll love it.
Re:I'd recommend Australia or Canada...NOT the U.S (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Come to the USA! (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Come to India (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot more tolerant? I tend to disagree. Maybe there isn't as much government interference, but the social pressure in India more than makes up for it. India is a nice place to visit, but as I foreigner I would never be able to live there. The lack of infrastructure, electricity cuts in most cities, flocks of touts and beggars, men who gawk (if you're female and unaccompanied by a man, even if you dress conservatively), and uptight attitudes towards alcohol and tobacco would take it off my list.
I don't know whether you are Indian or not. But India is HUGE, and you might have experienced just a small bit of India.
It has a place for everybody. From poorest of poor to one of the richest man on earth. You can be atheist or you can be most religious person. There are many saints who stay naked for their whole life, without even getting a second look from anybody. You can belong to any race, religion, caste, creed and still feel at home in India. People may gawk at you, but they welcome all with open heart.
These are sign of open society. May not be open in western civilization's sense, but open nevertheless
India has be described a an elephant as experience by 5 blind people. The blind person touching its trunk may think elephant is like a water hose, while person touching its tail may describe the elephant as a rope, and still one touching its legs will experience it as a tower.
Come and experience the Incredible India. You will get in it what you are looking for. This has been true since the age of Alexander and before.
Re:What languages? (Score:4, Interesting)
As a New Zealander currently in Australia, I'd agree with this. Here, I have to present (and have recorded) ID to get a cell phone, or to post an international parcel, and the government has been trying to bring in compulsary internet filtering. I'd rate NZ better than Australia better than USA better than UK.
As another poster has noted, Fiji is very much 'too bad.' The current governemnt was installed by military coup, and no longer even has a free press.
Costa Rica (Score:3, Interesting)
I asked a similar question back before the US elections, just in case Bush, er, McCain won. Someone suggested Costa Rica. Apparently, they're "America-lite." They have similar institutions - three branches of govt - but just not as useless, I guess. Land is supposed to be cheap. It has coastlines on both oceans. I don't know about immigration laws, but it shouldn't be hard to look up.
I feel for ya, brother. Good luck.
Re:Come to the USA! (Score:0, Interesting)
Where do I get what you're smoking?
There are a small group of elites in this country, many descendants of the elites from the OP's country. They run the show, and have no intention of allowing any of the peons to be "peers of the king"
Adams wanted most of the power in the Senate "house of lords", little in the House "house of commons", and the President to be little more than a clerical position. This was part of the democracy, only in name, to appease the masses who were looking at the amazing ideas coming out of France. But, only lip-service was payed to power for the people.
The executive ended up with more power, but the Electoral College allowed the elites to prevent the masses from electing the wrong president. You little kings have your vote-- then we'll decide what is best.
More recently, Reagan, (war criminal to the informed, great president to the stupid and ignorant masses), stated that, "Educating the Proletariat would be dynamite [explosive, damaging]." -- yeah, he really said that. Apparently Reagan would be pleased in reading your comment.
Turn off the T.V. (and AM radio) folks, and read. There really is no excuse for how stupid Americans are. Yeah, I live in the US, and like the OP in the U.K., I want to get the hell out of my country too.
To the OP: there are very few places (none?) to go that are not run by the same global cabal of Corporations and old money. Mussolini's Fascism is taking over the entire planet. The few bright spots like those associated with the Bolevarian movements, will be cut down when the cabal decides it's time (they already tried once in Venezuela).
Homework for Americans:
Which of the following were _democracies_ when overthrown by the U.S., and which were _bloody dictatorships_ propped up by the US after? Which were due to wanting control of the nations resources?
Iran, Guatemala, Chile
(Answer: all of them. Easy exercise for reader to find at least 10 more countries overthrown by the US in pursuit of stealing their natural resources for the benefit of the ruling cabal)
Which country used its Air Force Bombers to put down a union movement by mine workers? You guessed it. The f'ing US.
Which country called out its military against students in its universities, twice (murdering students on both occasions)? The f'ing US.
So, if you are a peer to kings and in control of all these decisions, pardon me but you are pretty f'ed up, Planesdragon.
Re:New Zealand (Score:2, Interesting)
New Zealand is a modern, English speaking, very politically free and open country.. They are very much a part of the "First World", but so far have avoided many of the more "Police State-y" laws and regulations that you seem eager to be away from.
+ 1 for NZ. NZ is the only country in the world where, on average the women have had more sexual partners than men. It has the highest non-religious population in the world - meaning no laws are influenced by religion. Housing is cheap given the recession. And if you earn an income from outside of NZ while living there, you enjoy 4 years 100% tax free income.
Re:Public's problem. (Score:4, Interesting)
You may say that you have nothing to hide, but I really doubt it. Have you ever jaywalked? Gone even a mile above the speed limit? Or not even broken the law, but done something that might be just a little bit suspicious: talked to someone in another country? Snuck some food into a movie theater? Gone for a walk late at night? And how would you feel about a camera in your bathroom? Your bedroom? The voting booth?
Re:Economic Freedom (Score:5, Interesting)
To answer the topic question, I want to remind you how much of a duty you have to your fellow countryman. If possible, you need to stand up and change things, as a country full of people who don't do that will get trampled on by the first bully it encounters. And bullies are the ones who crave power. As a last resort, though, "voting with your feet" is effective, so long as you're willing to fight for your principles in your new country.
And I love your sig. I need to remember that.
-Ben Vander Jagt, a Ron Paul and Campaign For Liberty supporter
Re:Come to the USA! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Come to the USA! (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously? You think the weapons that civilians have on hand can take on the best-funded military the world has ever seen? You know, the one that has more resources than the next five biggest militaries COMBINED? I don't think you've thought about this very seriously.
125,000 troops in Iraq, the a country the size of California (with fewer people, I might add), you'd think we'd have this mopped up by now, except that somehow after the set-piece battle is done, it takes a whole lot of troops & police to create effective positive control over a civilian population. This is something Americans learned after the civil war -- the North won the war but the South very clearly won the reconstruction as the North (unfortunately) had neither the resources nor the political will to police the entire South to guarantee rights to the now-freed-slaves.
The military is a blunt weapon, not one that can be effectively used for fine-grained policing work. This is why the Soviets & company invested so much in secret police, becuase they needed a subtle way to control the masses in a fashion that didn't raise the public ire against them like the tanks did (the Chinese, since 1989 have advanced quite a bit in this respect). The E. German Stassi in particular had a file on every citizen -- this wasn't a massive waste, it was an integral part of a very effective system.
Now imagine that 125,000 man army spread across the entire US (or even just a region of it) with 60 million rifles and 65 million handguns (in 1994, gun ownership has only gone up since, especially after the last election). Even if the entire national guard joined the army (doubtful, many would defect and bring their weapons over the rebels anyway), there's still be ~500 armed civilians for each soldier.
Cites:
"A National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (NSPOF), conducted in 1994, indicates that Americans own 192 million guns, with 36% of these consisting of rifles" from wikipedia.
Re:What languages? (Score:4, Interesting)
The guy doesn't even define what he means by "freer"! Since it's not well-defined, let's look at various freedoms (restricted to Anglophonic countries):
Freedom of the Press [freedomhouse.org]
1. NZ
2. Jamaica
3. Ireland, USA (tie)
5. Bahamas, Barbados, Canada, Marshall Islands (tie)
Economic Freedoms [heritage.org]
1. Australia
2. Ireland
3. NZ
4. USA
5. Canada
There are other freedoms to look at, but I don't need to look at more. Ireland, US, NZ, and Canada seem to be the best under those two criteria (and granted those criteria are more like metacriteria themselves).
New Zealand Immigrant - Consider Many Things (Score:3, Interesting)
When I meet new immigrants that don't take in to consideration a wide variety of factors in deciding whether or not a country is right for them they inevitably end up disappointed. Emigrating is huge emotional and financial commitment so I'd recommend spending an extended period of time in the country, either on a work visa or studying. On top of that the amount of paperwork to immigrate to any country is crazy unless, even for just a work visa. If you do settle for a long term work visa there's always the unsettling feeling that you can't truly lay down roots in a country which can be stressful.
If you're considering particularly New Zealand (I don't know if you are but we get a large number of poms coming over here) there are some specifics to think of:
-We're small so if you like big cities our biggest is pretty small by most country's standards.
-Internet and technology is expensive here. Our iPhone plans (just as for comparison) on Vodafone are the most expensive in the world
-We are a multicultural society, Maoris, Europeans, Asians and many others call this country home, if you're intolerant you'll have a hard time here
-Wages are lower here and taxes are higher, you get a lot for it, including a good health care system and a no-fault society accident coverage, but you're disposable income will probably be less then what you make for the same work in other countries
-New Zealand is a long ways away from other countries, it's expensive to get anywhere from her
Things are nice here and I love it. I don't regret it at all. If you're interested in learning more about New Zealand immigration check out http://www.emigratenz.org/ [emigratenz.org] and http://www.immigration.govt.nz/ [immigration.govt.nz] It'd probably also be advisable to speak to an immigration lawyer, but unless you've got the extra cash, you can definitely do all the paperwork on your own.
Re:What languages? (Score:4, Interesting)
If he was serious about this question he wouldn't be asking.
Come on, asking other people what country to move to? Grow a pair, travel to the country that seems most interesting (and acceptable) to you, then figure out the rest. If you try to find a job from your "safe home", possibly even expecting relocation costs and all covered, you'll have to be a serious superstar or have really good connections to find anything decent. If OTOH you can walk into somebody's office anytime for a chat you'll have much better chances. The world doesn't evolve around you after all.
Switching countries can be quite a big deal, more so than you apparently think. Expect to burn through a bit of cash in the beginning until you figure out the local lifestyle and land a steady job. Obviously, the closer the cultures are, the easier the beginning. I made the switch thrice: Once to Ireland, once to Holland, then to Japan. The first two were easy but boring, as I went because of a job. Japan was the hardest obviously, but also the most rewarding. I improved my English tremendously (2nd language) and learnt Japanese (3rd language). After a year of keeping myself afloat doing random stuff in Hokkaido I found the most satisfying job I ever had in Tokyo. I'm also in the programming/IT sector.
You'll never know if a country is acceptable for you until you go there.
Re:What languages? (Score:2, Interesting)
It is not commonly known within this country but an agency of the NZ Government monitors all internet traffic and telephone calls. While we are signatories to UN Human Rights treaties we don't have a constitution so there is actually no constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech, freedom from unreasonable seizure etc.
Scott McNealy of Sun once said, "Privacy is dead, get over it". Unfortunately this appears to be true, even in little 'ole NZ. It is a shame that governments the world over feel that in order to combat crime and terrorism they are justified in stealthily eliminating privacy. It is also a shame that most citizens are far more concerned with Britney Spears latest escapades rather than the erosion of the freedoms established by their forefathers.
Re:What languages? (Score:3, Interesting)
Real unemployment is already higher than that in California. Ireland here I come!
Re:Come to the USA! (Score:2, Interesting)
#2 is right... but in a bad way. Both parties are no different in the scheme of things and continue to run their scams alongside of their owners/lobbyists.
I will add two more points:
#6: The US is huge and has a lot of fertile, sparsely populated land. If worse comes to worse, if you can't find freedom from government, you could theoretically get freedom away from it. Theoretically, though.
#7: Chicks love guys with accents, and that's no secret. You can be the mysterious British gent and you can take any girl you want home who will think you're James Bond.
Re:What languages? (Score:2, Interesting)
In fact, we've only had a white Christmas twice in the last 5 of 6 years!
This is off topic, but this sentence is ridiculously hard do decipher.
If you had a white Christmas 2 times in the last 5 of 6 years, then we can assume the one year was omitted because it was a white Christmas, to make the fraction more impressive. Then, there was a white Christmas 3 out of 6 years.
I love it when "half the time" becomes "twice in five of the last six years".
... of course, it could just be a typo. Fun exercise though!
Re:Avoid the Failed or Failing States (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think it's any coincidence that the stable countries are in the far north and south, and the most unstable parts nearer the equator. If you don't have to plan in order to keep from freezing then you can get into a lot more trouble. People living where there's a cold winter face likely death every year if their societies fall into chaos.
Re:What languages? (Score:3, Interesting)
In those countries (France and French-speaking excepted), it is necessary to have some level of English
Not true. Let me preface that by saying that I worked and lived 4 years in the US, 6 years in Italy, 3 years in Antarctica and spent many months in several others before coming back to France. Tech jobs in France require english just like anywhere else. I have an british coworkers and there are many foreigners in the company. For a while we toyed with the idea to have a weekly lunch break in english (shot down because one guy didn't want to, although he does speak it).
This being said, back to the topic at hand, I'd say NZ. Mainland European countries are a bit better in terms of 'free' than the 51st state right now, but those things tend to fluctuate (see HADOPI law currently in France).
Re:What languages? (Score:5, Interesting)
My solution was to move to an native American fishing village on tribal land [wikipedia.org] and lease my land from the tribes. This is not your normal Indian reservation. We have our own broadband [tulalipbroadband.net], water & sewer system, telco (360-716-NNNN), data services w/fiber at the curb (VZN also offers 3.5Mb/s DSL at my home), police, fire and clinics. We also have a 110 unit premium outlet mall [premiumoutlets.com], a WalMart, Home Depot and various chain eateries. For your gaming and relaxation enjoyment we have a 4-star resort and casino [tulalipcasino.com] with the best food in the county (and rivals anything that Seattle has.)
It does help that the tribes have a nice bit of land on I-5 between Vancouver, BC and Seattle, WA with 3 exits, and have made the most of it.
The laws here are interesting. We don't have to follow county or state law (although most of the traffic laws are equivalent.) US Federal laws apply but require the intervention of the BIA, FBI, and etc, and they have to go through the Tribal Police first.
And we can blow shit up [seattlepi.com] when we want.
Now granted, if you are going to do something that costs the community, you'll get busted (don't do shit in a casino for fucks sake, they watch everyone all the time.) But if you live on a rez, there is a community communication system that beats anything that twit or myface called knowing your neighbors.
If you want security then live in a small village and get to know everyone, help your community and be a neighbor. That's the hardest thing for Big Bro to bust. Treat your IP access like you're doing it over ham radio, your phone like it's a CB, your mail like it's a pin-up board at your local market.
What the hell do you have to worry about your communications for anyway? Are you trying to overthrow your government or just BTing some US network show. This "I own it because it's part of my culture" shit is crap. They play it on the radio and TV so you'll hear the ads and buy shit. That's crap that someone you don't know made and some marketing dweeb broadcast over and over guessing that you'll take it to heart and make it your own. Just like an football club trying to fill the stands. You don't know these fucks, bugger them! Find REAL people in your community that have talent and support them.
Granted there is some music and shows that I like but I've found a service that provides it with time shifting (and commercial free or commerical skipping) for a price I'm willing to pay, and it keeps my bird happy.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What languages? (Score:4, Interesting)
New Zealand was recently rated the most peaceful country on earth to live in. Race relations in NZ, while not perfect, are considerably better than the US, Canada or UK and streaks ahead of Australia. Be aware that a lot of right wing New Zealanders constantly talk the country down because it doesn't conform to their vision of a racist free market paradise.
You are unlikely to make a fortune in New Zealand, but you don't really need one.
I've been away for ten years, but I'm moving back early next year because it's a good place to raise a family, the beaches are clean and not crowded, and the fly fishing is great.
There's also another good reason to move there. Food security is never going to be a problem in New Zealand, since it produces far more than its people could ever hope to eat. Given the way things look to be going 15-20 years from now I think that is going to be an enviable position.
Re:Switzerland and perhaps Estonia! (Score:2, Interesting)
Considering the OP is from the UK, I should point out another thing that a british coworker who moved here (to Switzerland) said: he loves the reliability and price of public transport. You can pay about a thousand swiss francs for an yearly pass to ride on all the ZVV network, which is extremely large (this price is for the 9 o'clock pass, which is only valid starting 9AM during the week, all day on weekends and it covers a lot of places. I can basically go almost to all cities around the Zurich lake. For those I can't , there's the Half Fare card, which is extremely cheap as well and even valid in some other countries).
As for reliability, I know that during most hours, can just go to the station close to my house and at *:16 , *:36 and *:56 there's a train at the station that goes to Zurich main station. And at *:01, *:21, *:41, there's a train in the station close to work to bring me back home. (during peak hours, it's every 10 minutes, but I avoid peak hours even here). If the train gets delayed more than a couple minutes, they make sure to broadcast apologies at all stations in the way (I've been living here for about 4 months so far and I've only seen this happen only *once* and that happened due to a little construction issue in the Zurich main station that caused delays in all the Zurich network for a day).
Re:Switzerland and perhaps Estonia! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What languages? (Score:5, Interesting)
But Norway isn't that extremely free in my opinion. It's a very comfortable nanny state, but that I can't buy a damn beer at 7PM on a saturday is just the tip of that iceberg. Sweden and the Pirate Party is the first ones I've seen to really kick back on the massive surveillance efforts being passed by the EU, thus coming to Norway too because we're the EU's bitch. Denmark has a wonderfully more relaxed attitude to everything, but they're not exactly heading on the barricades. The netherlands has legalized soft drugs and hookers, if that's your idea of freedom.
The vast majority of Norway's population live south of the polar circle, same in Sweden so you won't have all dark days or midnight sun, that's up north where we send the tourists. Of course there's some cities up there like Tromsø with 65k people if you want to be there, but the typical job in Norway is not. Depending on where you're coming from, expect colder winters wtih snow though. Driving in the winter is a skill I see many immigrants struggle with, no you can not just pretend it's summer and expect to accelerate or break in no time. For the most part a good country though, and one of the better things is that if you become citizen of an EU country, you can always change your mind. I can move anywhere in the EU without issue if I think the going is crap. Then again, a lot of the anti-freedom crap is coming from EU....
Re:Finland (Score:3, Interesting)
Finland has the best privacy laws in the world, and Finns enjoy a lot of rights, such as "right to roam" [wikipedia.org]. Finland also had women's suffrage in 1906, much earlier than most countries. Finland is also a highly technological nation, which since you post on slashdot, is probably a plus.
Out of interest, I just thought I'd point out that Finland has, in my opinion, the best [wikipedia.org] electoral system in the world. Open-list Proportional Representation, with a unicameral parliament (IMHO, the only reason you ever need a second chamber is because the first one is so shit it needs to be slapped down occasionally - make the first better, and you don't need a second one). Maybe a coincidence, but I doubt it. Anyone who says first-past-the-post is better is, well, wrong.
Re:Switzerland and perhaps Estonia! (Score:1, Interesting)
As an Italian I wholly agree on Switzerland. I have a close friend who was lucky enough to move there many years ago and doesn't have the faintest idea to come back more than just a couple weeks during summer to see some sea water. You 're right about coming here to see the ocean (albeit the mediterranean isn't an ocean but an almost closed sea). Nowadays Italy is literally going down the shitter thanks to the criminal government gone completely out of control and the corrupt opposition that doesn't do anything to stop the criminals in power. For that matter If I had to choose a country in Europe with some sea I'd go for Spain. I have no personal accounts on how's going on there, but friends and colleagues still describe that place as very democratic and enjoyable. Then my choice would probably go to Norway, Sweden or Netherlands.
Re:What languages? (Score:5, Interesting)
You're making it much too difficult. I've lived and worked in a bunch of countries (Australia, all over Europe, the Middle East, and now Southeast Asia, though at the moment I'm on a few-week gig in Paris). The trick is to spend less time sitting at home fretting about paperwork and about how complicated you imagine it will be, and to spend more time shopping for plane tickets and getting your ass over there.
With the exception of Saudi Arabia, where there was no real way around having a job in hand before arrival, the sure-fire plan has always been this:
I do IT work and get paid well, so it's not like you have to be stuck tending bar in tourist joints either, as some would have you believe.
Unless you work for a multinational that can transfer you around the globe as easily up two flights of stairs, you've got to take matters into your own hands and stop trying to do the conventional thing like you've done at home. Live a little. Take a risk. Get outside your comfort zone. You will be well rewarded.
Re:What languages? (Score:2, Interesting)
1. Why does getting an American passport reduce the options that he has through his British passport?
2. BS on your whole point. It's easy for Americans to emigrate. In most European countries, all you have to do is hold down a job for 3-5 years and then you can naturalize. New Zealand will take anyone with a pulse. Australia's not far behind, as long as you're of child-bearing age and have a couple university degrees.
Re:What languages? (Score:5, Interesting)
There's always the alternative: stay and fight. Stand up, be heard, be diligent, don't take no for answers, get answers. Repeat. Privacy, as other rights (remember 1066?) take tenacity to achieve and hold on to. As a bonus, they'll know all about you.
Re:What languages? (Score:5, Interesting)
Try Malaysia. It's the easiest place for westerners to integrate culturally and socially, by a long shot. People speak English well and are genuinely interested in and knowledgeable about the outside world (unlike, say, Thailand). My social life in Kuala Lumpur is the best I've ever had in my life (even compared to undergrad) and my friends are 80% local. I've been invited to countless homes, met everyone's families, gone on long road trips and even international trips with my local friends (2 road trips to Singapore and one trip up to Bangkok this year alone), play on a couple local sports teams, and attended more weddings than I can recall. I'll go weeks in a row with dinner/drinks invitations 7 nights a week.
This stands in stark contrast to my prior existence in Washington DC, where despite having a lot of acquaintainces, I met few people I'd really consider friends, and often felt quite alone, voluntarily sequestering myself at home and spending my weekends on long solo bike rides because I couldn't bear another night out of shallow idiotic conversation with people who really only seemed to tolerate each other because they were familiar faces.
Here I agree with you. There's an overall slack casualness that means in daily practice you have a lot more liberty than you do in more structured, developed societies. Park wherever the hell you want, sit outside until 5am buying beer from a guy with a pushcart, etc. Just watch your step around Sensitive Topics of National Interest.
Re:What languages? (Score:3, Interesting)
As a bonus, they'll know all about you.
Yeah, unless you mean employers, "They" are usually the reason for considering emigration. I don't want to be on anyone's radar screen except for times and purposes of my choosing.
Re:What languages? (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Why does getting an American passport reduce the options that he has through his British passport?
Because a british citizen can work anywhere in the EU, an american citizen can't. A british citizen needs *no* paper work more than their passport, he just picks up his bags and leaves, while an american citizen must jump through many legal hoops like getting work permits, etc.
Re:Learn a language! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What languages? (Score:3, Interesting)
Languages? C, C++, Python, some Perl. Andon days where I want to feel dirty, VB.
I would like to point people to the Economic Index of Freedom [heritage.org]
Looks like other than USA, Hong Kong (which I like), Singapore, Australia, Ireland,New Zealand. Of these, only HK and Singapore would fit because the English-Speaking countries are all embarking on the erosion of liberties/privacies.
Of those two, you could probably find a tech job in HK. Singapore isn't as tech heavy, but I think you could manage there as well.
Re:Come to India (Score:2, Interesting)
Absolutely right! I am American by birth but have spent over 10 years of my life in India at various times from the 70s through the 90s. Now I am retiring and getting ready to move to South India. Of course it helps that I am a high initiate in a Vedic esoteric school, study Sanskrit and speak tolerable Hindi. But I would agree with the parent, you can find pretty much whatever you want there.
The cultural diversity in India is inconceivable to a Westerner. The Western educational gulag trains up everyone to be a conformist. In India you have at least 13 major cultural/linguistic/ethnic/religious groups, and countless minor and regional variations. Going to India from the West feels like getting out of jail. The biggest shock on coming back to the West is how boringly the same everyone is.
In India you can find everything from aborigines and hill tribes to the most sophisticated intellectuals in the world. I know, I have debated with some of them and come away with deep respect for the cultural traditions. And there is nothing to compare with the Indian cultural tradition of hospitality. Just don't forget your micropore water filter...
Re:Switzerland and perhaps Estonia! (Score:3, Interesting)
Many people there live in small towns, far away from others. They do not see many others, except for tourists. Who in winter are very annoying, because of their stupid after-ski partys. ^^
Just *be one of them* (do not only play it), and they will accept you way sooner. :)
(Of course you would also keep your own traditions.)
Re:What languages? (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Marry a local in your destination choice. Your spouse will teach you the local language. That will solve most paperwork issues.
2) If you decide on a country with a weaker curreny, start your own company focused on international clients. You will be competitively priced in your clients country, and the foreign currency will convert favorably. Be prepared to wait a while until you have clients. You might be able to find local work until then.
Neither of those two is easy or right for everybody, but moving to another country isn't for everyone either.
As for Brazil, imho the government tries as hard as they can to ignore you, and complaining to the government is part of the culture so you can do it as much as you like.
Re:Stay. (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's face it. A lot of the people that say they are leaving a particular place because certain political reasons are just doing so because it's convenient to do so. Apart from people that are really under political oppression, those that emigrate would most likely be because of a better standard of living, weather, career opportunities or to be closer to family and friends, etc.
Slashdot is probably the worse place to ask for immigration advice. If you want to move to a country which has good protections on privacy, free speech and civil rights in general, but you don't fight to keep those rights, then you are a net liability to that nation, whichever you might wish to choose to settle in.
No matter how people of markets as the magical solution to everything, it is unlikely that privacy and civil liberty protections in law was drafted with immigration policy in mind.
Freedom is not a thing, a state of being or something you can achieve. Freedom is a balance; a balance of self and society, a balance between individual satisfaction and collective well-being. When this balance is lost, then to one extreme there is oppression, or to the other there is anarchy.
Re:What languages? (Score:2, Interesting)
Tribal reservations are as free as the state allows.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Law_280
Re:Stay. (Score:5, Interesting)
And you don't vote with your feet. You vote with the ballot box, the soap box, the jury box and then the ammo box of all the others have been compromised.
Re:What languages? (Score:1, Interesting)
I am a student living in the US now, but I also lived in Japan before.
If you want freedom, Brazil should be a very good option. I won't deny that it has problems and
is not quite at the same level of wealth as the US, EU or Japan, but there is literally no better place
to live. For a foreigner you may have a lot of red tape to take care of, but other factors really will
compensate for it. Weather, the people, the food... I can't wait to finish my PhD and go back!
Portuguese should not be so hard to learn from English too, it's very similar to Spanish.
Re:Costa Rica (Score:3, Interesting)