Company Laptop, My Data — Can They Co-exist? 395
An anonymous reader writes "I recently replaced my old laptop. The owner of my company heard about this and offered to reimburse me for it, since he knows I have and will continue to do company work on my own hardware. I'd like the extra $1,250, but I think if I accept his offer that legally he has the right to any data on it (personal emails, files, blog posts, etc.). Even if I decide to put my personal stuff on a second drive, I'm worried that using company property to save and write to separate storage still gives them the right to it. The apps (Office, etc.) are my own licenses. We do not have a policy that intellectual property developed using company assets belongs to the company. But, if I figured out the One Great Internet Business Idea or write the Great American Novel and used the company laptop to do it, it's an avenue they could use to claim they own it. Unlikely, but scary. How many Slashdotters have been in this situation, and what agreement did you and your management come up with?"
Simple... (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't do it. (Score:2, Insightful)
I wont even allow my company to reimburse me for flash drives for this reason. It's way better to be safe when it comes to your personal data.
slashdot is not your lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
You need to ask a lawyer. His answer will depend, at least in part, on documents you have signed as part of your employment, and on state law.
Personally, I know my company is too confused to ever go after me, my data, and my ideas after I leave, so long as I don't compete directly with them. I don't worry about their supposed ownership of my every thought and dream, despite signing those rights over to them.
Don't do it (Score:5, Insightful)
Do everything in your power to keep your data and theirs separate. In fact I'd even recommend you stop doing their work on your hardware.
If they want to provide you with a company machine then let them.
Don't use personal property for work (Score:3, Insightful)
It creates an expectation that you will provide your own tools in every circumstance, and you shouldn't be subsidizing your company in any case. Create a line between your personal and business life or you will find that your personal life will erode away. That isn't fair to you or those in your personal life. No matter how much you love your job, it's still just a job at the end of the day. Don't be a sucker.
Subject (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the real question is why you're asking Slashdot instead of sitting down with your boss and hashing these issues out directly.
Re:What tracking is on your laptop??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Aren't they cute when they are young and so naïve?
Re:slashdot is not your lawyer (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Just ask (Score:3, Insightful)
P.S. IANAL so I could be mistaken.
That's the most important part of your post. I'm not a lawyer either, but I'm fairly confident that materials developed on company time or company property are defined as "work product" in a "work for hire" environment. I'd be extremely wary of presuming natural rights. The law is rarely completely reasonable, and work product is no exception.
Re:Basic Copyrights (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Easy Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
So your solution is simple:
Yes, it is. However, I'd offer that the solution is different than what you suggest. The simplest thing to do would be, have your employer buy you ANOTHER $1250 laptop expressly for work. Problem solved. Now you have an "air gap" between your life, and work life.
Why complicate things?
Re:Simple... (Score:3, Insightful)
You're using their bandwidth if you do this. Ergo, you are still using company resources. I have been in a similar situation. Nutshell solution for me? Just keep as you are, don't accept the $$. If they want you to back up your work, have them shell out for an external drive and backup the corporate work there, and only the corporate work.
Re:Don't *put* your data on it. (Score:3, Insightful)
But for heaven's sake, if you insist on keeping your stuff on the C: drive, put a self-destruct program on it that securely wipes your "Great American Novel" should your machine be seized by your corporate overlords.
Just make sure you have a ton of the nastiest (but keep it legal) pr0n on it when they do their initial checkout. That way it makes it harder for them to claim that you were surfing for that stuff at work. (You: "It was already there when the machine became a company asset")
An easier solution (Score:5, Insightful)
What about a bonus? (Score:3, Insightful)
Worked out bad with a cell phone (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Have them make it a bonus (Score:2, Insightful)
If I got a cash bonus and bought a laptop, and partially used that laptop for work, everything on that laptop except the data belonging to the company would be mine.
What he should do, then, is ask for a $1250 bonus with no strings attached, or a note to make clear that the equipment was originally purchased by him and owned by him.
Besides, I'd rather have the $1250 and pay taxes on it then not get it at all... there's never any tax incentive to NOT get money (the same way you don't somehow magically save money by donating it).
maybe not that simple... (Score:3, Insightful)
First you need to prove it is yours (onus on you, at the spur of that moment - so tape the receipt to the drive) - to the person walking you out, with you while you grab your personal stuff. Secondly, they will want to remove any company from the drive, and won't take your word for it that there ain't none. So the now pissed off IT slave will scrape through your personal stuff anyway...
Many companies sort out what's yours and theirs after walking you out, so you're short on luck in that scenario.
Re:Sorry, you're already screwed on that front. (Score:2, Insightful)
We do not have a policy that intellectual property developed using company assets belongs to the company.
I will also hazard a guess that like the company I work for, the author of this question work for a company that treats him with respect. That does not demean him or act like he will screw them over. In fact I would say that they are betting that he will have the personal integrity not to do anything immoral much less illegal. In my experience that is a much better deterrent than any contract or legal wording.
Re:Easy Solution (Score:3, Insightful)
Presumably, he would prefer having an extra $1,250.00 of discretionary money rather than having two laptops. It's not a cut-and-dry scenario.
It is cut-and-dry. You don't tell the boss about laptop number 2 because it's none of his business. It's like buying any other item for your personal use, like a box of condoms. Must that nosy boss know about everything I do outside of work?
Re:Simple... (Score:5, Insightful)
Good advice. Most places don't let you access the outside world except via the HTML browser.
I would take the ~$1300 if my boss wants to reimburse me for my laptop. I never turn-down money, and realistically I'm just an average schlub like everyone else. I'm NOT going to write the next great american novel. I'd just make sure that if I have any personal data, like pics of my kids, to offload it onto my home PC or a separate USB drive.
And of course keep silent. The boss doesn't need to know everything I type into his laptop. If I create a PS3 emulator, he doesn't need to know about it. Just offload it to my home PC and he'll never know it existed.
Re:An easier solution (Score:2, Insightful)
Take the check for $1,250 and use it to buy a new laptop. You get a free laptop that you use for work-only, and keep the other one for personal stuff. I call that the best of both worlds.
Except you're still down $1250 and now just have 2 different laptops, one of which doesn't really belong to you.
Re:Worked out bad with a cell phone (Score:1, Insightful)
I would have been adamant and insisted that I be allowed some minutes to write down the personal numbers on the phone (allowing for someone to supervisor if they so choose) and if they refused, I would not have given the phone back to them until later that day or the next day and NOT using the phone to make ANY calls (unless there's a dire emergency) and then describing the situation and informing them of your intentions in writing and then doing exactly what you wrote.
If the matter would have gone to court, the judge would have been on your side. What would the company do? Forcefully remove it from your pocket? That's assault. The company doesn't want to have to defend that in court. Hell, they don't want to go to court. They don't want you taking accounts with them either so they have a reason to retrieve the phone, but they have to give you time to retrieve the personal info.What if your kids' school needed to get a hold of you? There are far too many urgent matters that could have developed where not having a phone could have been life threatening. No company, no matter what issue they may have had with an employee would have wanted to take on that risk. Sure, they may not be happy, but we're talking about the US here, right?
Re:Simple... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Another option, #4 (Score:3, Insightful)
...not in our company :) All USB boot options are firmware disabled, as well as booting from any CDs. If the default specified HDD doesn't boot, someone from support with a BIOS password has to get in and reset the machine to enable this, and the BIOS settings are editable by a software app from within windows to re-disable this feature once an image is installed.
on many systems across the company, the USB ports are disabled entirely. generally, only execs and select machines in the suppoort areas have USB enabled. Nothing has an optical writer. SD and other memory card readers on laptops are disabled, and all HDDs are either BIOS locked, or encrpyted to both prevent them from being stolen, and to prevent other HDDs from being booted internally.
It's a bit extreme, but we have more than 15,000 employees with access to PCs, and sensitive data on millions of americans... We have to take precautions.
We also have no wifi at all, NAC devices scanning all ports, and MAC address tracking of all assets.
Re:Simple... (Score:5, Insightful)
I threatened to call the local police, but it had no effect to change their minds.
And you didn't WHY? Throwing empty threats around like that does nothing but make it harder for those of us who really WILL call the cops to get any justice.
Re:Have them make it a bonus (Score:2, Insightful)
Problem with the bonus is it's taxable. And you paid for the laptop with your cash after tax. You are out the taxed amount of money if they treat it as a bonus because it has to show up on their books. Bonuses in Canada are taxable as far as I know, but I am not an accountant.
In reality, I would keep the laptop for my own personal use or take it back to the store and say to the company if they would like to reemburse me, to have them buy me a work laptop instead.
Regarding personal data.. Its a bad idea to use company equipment for personal reasons.
1) backups are taken of all the data on the machine, so you can't know who is looking at your personal data. This is true of your encription methods. Maybe the company can't crack that partition, it doesn't change the fact that maybe some time in the future a method would be available. If the data is personal and important it doesn't belong on company equipment. It's just a bad idea.
Re:Have them make it a bonus (Score:3, Insightful)
My advice to OP: don't do it, even if you get it in writing. Even if you trust your boss. Even if it feels safe. The tide can shift in a snap, and you don't want to have to share ownership of all of your stuff when Sprint or Microsoft buy your company.
I disagree completely here; it makes little sense to turn down the money. It's your laptop, and you have the documentation to prove it. As a responsible computer user, you can backup all the personal data / media / software you care about on a home computer. If the very unlikely happens and you find the company has somehow superseded your clear ownership rights, the worst case scenario is that you lose a laptop for which you have already been reimbursed.
That seems extremely unlikely to happen, considering it's your laptop (they will have documentation of the reimbursement, but not the serial numbers, etc, which point to the exact machine, that you have). If it does, you have your personal data backed up, and can spend $1,250 on a (newer, faster, better) replacement and be better off than if you turned down the money and were 100% secure with your older hardware.
There isn't a lot of information but unless there are strings specifically attatched to the reimbursement, it is just that--a reimbursement.
I imagine this is quite similar to employers who do mobile phone or internet reimbursements in that they are offering it as a benefit and there is no transfer in ownership (though there may be some assumption of increased availability to work outside the office). When an employer reimburses you for personal vehicle use, they aren't claiming ownership on anything in your car...
This really seems to sum up the reality of the situation over the nightmare scenarios, but my point is the nightmare scenario is hardly that, so long as you do the backups you should be doing anyway.