Trust an Insurance Company's "Drive-Cam?" 480
ramen99 writes "Our new car insurance company offered us discounts for our teenage driver if we agree to install a 'drive-cam' that records driving habits and wirelessly transmits video footage to a 'neutral driving coach' for evaluation and comment. While this might be great to monitor a new teen driver, it will also monitor other adult drivers. The insurance company claims that they would never use any information obtained to consider changes in insurance rates, but that really sounds unbelievable. Would you give up your privacy to save some dough? Installation is free, and the camera mounts just under the rear-view mirror. Something seems fishy about this..." Especially when, according to a British insurance firm, computer engineers are most likely to crash (sent in by antdude).
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:2, Informative)
Would that recording from your camera be admissable if the recording system is not inside a black box that you cannot open yourself without leaving traces?
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:2, Informative)
Why do the slashmongs trot out the "correlation does not imply causation" line as if it's some deep wisdom?
Who cares about causation here? Certainly not the insurance companies, they just want to identify factors correlating with crashes.
Don't know how it is in Britain, (Score:3, Informative)
I can imagine that *most* people with their own cars will scratch their heads once or twice before filing the claim, as doing so could deprive them from no-claim bonus of said insurance company.
Re:It's simple (Score:5, Informative)
Per the slashdot post - ""Our new car insurance company offered us discounts for our teenage driver if we agree to install a 'drive-cam'"
Per the link provided in it.
"Will teens or parents participating in Teen Safe Driver get a discount on insurance?
A. No. While there are many financial and non-financial benefits from participating in Teen Safe Driver, American Family does not have enough information at this point to provide an insurance discount to participants. "
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Turn the offer down (Score:3, Informative)
Hmmm
Regardless of how much money this deal would save you, I would say no. I am cynical about the motives of the insurance company. I am from the UK, I have seen such assurances about potentially intrusive systems given many times, in the end the assurances all turned out to be worthless. Any system that can be abused will be abused.
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:5, Informative)
Given mortality rates being the highest for drivers 16-24, what would be a better alternative?
Actual driver training that might reduce the accident rate rather than just attempts to apportion blame better ?
Indeed! I'm one of several driving instructors in my local Audi Club who run several teen driving clinics per year. It's astounding how much they'll learn in a single day of instruction. I certainly feel better about their ability to handle a car when they leave, and (I think) so do they.
We teach basic car control, and give them the opportunity to actually lose control in a safe environment, so they know what it's like, know what their car is capable of (and isn't capable of) and mostly, just instill some confidence in them, so that when something happens on the road, they'll already have been there at least once, and hopefully won't panic.
"Driver education" as taught here in the US doesn't teach them anything about driving a car. It teaches them to obey the law (and not too effectively). If they had a solid sense of the amount of energy involved in even the most basic maneuvers, they'd probably look at speeding etc. in a whole new light. And I hope we help, at least a little, with that.
I'd love to require a course like ours for all new drivers before they get a license, and perhaps an occasional refresher for all drivers, period (even us instructors!)
Black boxes With GPS are out there now (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ride a bicycle (Score:3, Informative)
Already done. Most late-model vehicles have computers that can save the last X seconds of data (speed, throttle position, RPM, etc.), along with malfunction codes. So you claim your brakes went out? An insurance company gets a judge to seize your vehicle's computer, and guess what? No abnormal codes...guess those brakes were working fine in the last few seconds before you plowed into their client.
Speed limiters? Check. Maintenance records? Check. (500 miles beyond your 30,000-mile dealer check? Shame on you...vehicle probably shouldn't have been on the road.) ABS data? Check. GPS data? Check. (On-Star or Acura Satellite, anyone?)
So you see, your late-model vehicle is already likely to be fitted with a "black box" that can help others establish your proportion of guilt in the event of an accident.
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:4, Informative)
How are people supposed to know which posts are jokes if they aren't modded as Funny?
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:2, Informative)
IANAL, but from what I understand of U.S. law: For evidence purposes, you would submit the complete document, unedited. At the least, that means the whole video stream from camera turn-on to turn-off. The opposition may subpoena the whole hard drive, to examine it for tampering.
In an accident, you would want to pull the hard drive, lock it up, and put it under your attorney's control as soon as possible (to avoid suggestions that you edited it).
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:3, Informative)
That's not entirely true. There are lots of effects in movies used for cleanup... wire work removal, editing street signs, removing bystanders, etc. That most people wouldn't even know were originally on the film. They don't use it for things like "Avatar" because they want it to look CGI and "unrealistic" but it's used all the time in movies to beef up car chases and enhance special effects most people wouldn't even notice.
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:3, Informative)
Err- what's not entirely true? You actually made the next point I was going to make- that even a non-"Effects" film these days can have up to 100 effects shots and most of those are invisible.
In my above comment, I was talking about CG characters, vehicles and environments since that's what the OP seemed to be referring to- my closer was going to be your comment, that what he thinks of VFX is actually pretty narrow.
If I had a dash cam and wanted to make that blurry driver who hit me look like he had a cellphone in his hand, it wouldn't exactly be the most challenging thing I've done.
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:4, Informative)
Why would you provide evidence against yourself, ever? Don't talk. Don't give them anything. Talk to your lawyer.
If you have evidence, your lawyer will take it and present it with the correct chain of custody maintained.
Providing evidence to the police against yourself has to be one of the stupidest things people can do. Well, I guess pleading guilty to get off on a lighter sentence for something that you weren't involved in is stupider, but that happens a lot.
Re:Private Car Cameras (Score:3, Informative)
Was that a pedestrian? I thought it was a squirrel, and as far as I know, I'm under no legal obligation to stop after running over a squirrel.
If you didn't see the suicidal elderly man who jumped in front of your car, and heard the bump/thump, it could be dismissed as an animal or some other road debris. I've never hit a person, but I have unfortunately hit a few animals over the years. I once hit a plastic trash can one morning at about 55mph (the speed limit on the road), where a gust of wind during a storm blew it out in front of my car. I will honestly say, that empty trash can made a lot more noise than a Bubulcus Ibis hitting the windshield at 70mph. The ibis hit the antenna and top of the A pillar and bounced away, and even flew away after several seconds). Sure as heck, if I hear something that sounds like a trash can, that I didn't see, in the dark, when there are gusty winds, I can probably safely assume it was a trash can. I've never seen a news report of a hit and run, when there's a mystery sound.
The last "mystery sound" that me or my friends have experienced turned out to be a bullet hole in a tire. It wasn't me or my car, but I was called to bring a jack and spare tire at 2am. Luckily, they had driven about a mile on the flat, and down an off-ramp, so we were probably safe. Sometimes it's better to assume the best, than hang around for the second shot. ... and no, cats don't make much of a noise at all. I really like cats, but I hit one once. It made less noise than driving over a reflector in the road. So, saying you hit a squirrel when you hit a person really isn't a good excuse.