Best Developer's Laptop? 672
s31523 writes "I love my current laptop, but unfortunately on my last trip the primary LCD went bonkers. It's an older Gateway (2 GB RAM Intel Pentium M 2.0 GHz, ATI M7). There are a handful of features I love about it: [1] Hot-swappable drive bay, with several components that can go in: CD/DVD R/W, extra battery, floppy drive, extra hard drive, memory card reader, etc. The extra battery option is especially appreciated — I can go 4-5 hours on battery power. [2] Docking station / port replicator: I like having my home setup with keyboard, network, and dual screens (a necessity). [3] It runs Linux. OK, I'm a wus, I actually have GRUB command three different OS's: Windows 98 (I have really old embedded software compilers that only run on 98, and yes I have tried every trick in the book to make them run on Linux), Windows XP Pro, and Ubuntu. I'm trying to find a replacement setup that offers the same flexibility and a little better performance. I am open to change as well. So, I ask Slashdot: What is your pick for best developer's laptop under $1,200, considering the features above?"
Multi booting? (Score:5, Informative)
Who can be bothered with that.
Any new laptop is probably going to have a bunch of cores and hardware virtualization, so put ubuntu on that, and virtualize XP and 98.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Wine is making a lot of headway, but a neat helper program allows you to install things easily and with a pretty good GUI called http://www.playonlinux.com/en/ [playonlinux.com]
It uses scripts that has their own format to install Wine with a special setup that's taken care of by PlayOnLinux and the script. I think it's a great idea, and all that's needed is more scripts.
Re:Multi booting? (Score:4, Informative)
I agree - using a virtual machine is nice, but be sure the CPU in your laptop supports it. Start by looking here [intel.com] and make sure. Virtual machines suck without hw support.
You'd be surprised how many mainstream laptop CPUs do NOT have virtualization support, especially many of the "Sunday Ad" bargain machines.
Re:Multi booting? (Score:4, Informative)
The stock 2GB of RAM can be a pain at times (but doable) so I'd suggest at least 4GB if you want a comfortable virtualized development environment.
Re:Multi booting? (Score:4, Informative)
That's right. Intel disables VT on some chips to artificially create different market segments. AMD doesn't play this particular game, and their VT equipment is usable on all their chips.
Re:Multi booting? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, instead of picking a machine that works, you pick a machine that doesn't have the features you need, and then run another machine, thereby using power, needing a fast network connection and has it's own set of issues. No thanks, I'd rather get a machine that has virtualisation support in the hardware. It'll be faster, cheaper and a better quality solution.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Who can be bothered with that.
Any new laptop is probably going to have a bunch of cores and hardware virtualization, so put ubuntu on that, and virtualize XP and 98.
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that the submitter mentioned what type of development he's doing. If he's trying to do game development, virtualization may not be ideal for him. However for anything else I'd agree with you - except I'd personally choose a Mac as my "root kit" (as opposed to a rootkit I guess) and run VMware-based instances of Windows, Linux, et. al.
As an aside - anyone have experience with how well the EFI-enabled grub (or any other bootloader that can run on a modern Mac) works?
Re:Multi booting? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that the submitter mentioned what type of development he's doing. If he's trying to do game development, virtualization may not be ideal for him.
If you're doing game development for Windows 98, I'd say you have much bigger problems...
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
you're going to probably need to virtualize win 98 at this point anyway - i cant even get it to boot on my MSI K8MM-V + Sempron machine - you'll probably need to try something newer for it anyway.
VMWare works nicely for this as does virtualbox. Plus if seamless virtualization actually works on your host OS, its pretty smooth.
Why I chose Apple for my dev laptop (Score:5, Insightful)
I gave it a shot and have been able to do Objective C, Mono development, LAMP dev and just about everything without any problems. There effectively is not any language or environment that is left out and Eclipse and Subversion work as great as they do on my Linux box.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I love mine, and the 6 hour battery life can just about get me through the whole work day without wires.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why I chose Apple for my dev laptop (Score:4, Informative)
Kindly STFU.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
However you can always install alternative JVM's
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Write once, deploy everywhere is a concept that game developers (and all other software developers) would LOVE especially once their products have to be deployed on multiple platforms. The ignorance of forcing people to your platforms language (or version of C) is arrogance and ignorance that has shown not to succeed unless you have a monopoly.
2) Swing does look crappy on Apple but thats why they had the Cocoa Bridge for java... and thats why they
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple isn't gunning for Microsoft, simply because they can't without losing money.
This isn't because they're software or hardware is inferior, it's not. However, they're primary business is hardware, and they're very dependent on their current profit margins. To take out Microsoft, Apple would have to turn their PC's into a commodity item the same way IBM did, and from the evidence of the few times they've tried this, they just end up being undercut by third parties(just like IBM was). To beat Microsoft the
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
From jaunty:
$ java -version
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_16-b01)
Re: (Score:2)
Win 98 also runs fine in VirtualBox, OSS free for personal use from Sun.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, and it works great out of the box. I have an Apple 24" LED Cinema Display as my second monitor at 1920x1200. Not only does it work great under OSX, it also works when dual-booting to Windows 7 or other recent Microsoft OS.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And I use a Mac. And in fact, everyone I know who knows what the hell they are doing uses one too.
STFU. Please.
Re:Why I chose Apple for my dev laptop (Score:4, Insightful)
You've obviously never been to a real developers conference and seen the exploding number of Macs in the audiences of the lectures and meetings.
Hate to wake you from 1993, but the real hard-core professional developers are all buying Macs, and not because they like free stickers.
Thinkpad T-series (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thinkpad T-series (Score:5, Informative)
ThinkPads also sport a 3-button trackpoint, which is very handy when running X11. In addition, it's not hard to find ones with compatible video and wireless cards.
Re:Thinkpad T-series (Score:5, Informative)
I use a Thinkpad X61 and it is fantastic (Ubuntu + virtualized XP).
(Previously I had a T43p which was also good.)
For your price requirements and the fact that you like the second battery, I would definitely go with a T series.
It is not just the customer service that is good, the quality is top notch. I've dropped both laptops on tile floors (the T43p twice) with the worst result being a bit of chipped plastic through which you could see the METAL body on the T43p.
Docking station is superb as well (I used it for both, but it is especially great with the X61).
I have also recommended the SL series to some family, but don't have personal experience with it.
Re:Thinkpad T-series (Score:5, Informative)
Just picked up a Thinkpad T400 and it is nothing short of amazing. Advantages over the macbooks:
* Matte screen w/ WXGA+ LED backlight (new Macbook Pros are all glossy)
* Extremely easy to swap out or replace hardware (new macs have improved this, but not as easy)
* Price (I used the Lenovo IBMEPP site + E-coupons) literally saved over $1100.00 off reg price! (payed ~ $1350.00 loaded)
* Thinkpad keyboard - still one of the best in the world IMHO
* Good Linux or BSD hardware support
* Easy to dual-boot (if necessary) or you could run VM software
* Excellent battery time (i'm using a 6-cell battery) with a script to extend Linux battery life
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Glossy v. Matte is not a definitive advantage either way, IMO.
Glossy has some very interesting advantages offsetting the reflection problem. Reduced glare for one, which lets glossy screens have darker blacks. They also are easier to clean, although they are quicker to show the need.
I have a Macbook and an old Toshiba with a matte screen, and the screen on the macbook is much more useful when, say, outdoors as long as I don't have the sun directly at my back and I don't wear a bright shirt.
If I were look
Re:Thinkpad T-series (Score:4, Funny)
Fixed that for you.
Re:Thinkpad T-series (Score:4, Informative)
* Matte screen w/ WXGA+ LED backlight (new Macbook Pros are all glossy)
Not any more. Matte is available on 15" and 17" at this point.
Glossy and Matte (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'm on my second R series. The first one was an R51 and lasted over 2 years on the road and lots of days on construction sites or in oily dusty industrial settings. The LCD started to get vertical lines on it which were multiplying. I always used to pick it up by the LCD though. It is still going strong (nearly 4 years old now) with an external monitor and ubuntu.
I'm on an R61 now and I think it is pretty solid as well. Runs ubuntu great.
I agree with another poster though that the software lenovo loads o
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
OK, if you want to remove the extra software, go into the factory restore software, and uncheck all of the checkboxes.
The way Lenovo's software works is, it goes through three passes - it installs an image of a clean OS with all packages in a directory, then reboots, installs the drivers, reboots again, then installs the desired packages, then runs sysprep and reboots again.
As for the "pressing on the bottom right corner of the machine" thing... are you resting your finger on the TrackPoint? I've never hear
Re:Thinkpad T-series (Score:4, Interesting)
My experience regarding the customer service has been largely the same (although my Thinkpad is a cheap SL500 consumer series model), but for the price, I'm relatively satisfied with the hardware. The casing is feels cheap, the keyboard flexes a little, and there were a few internal mechanical problems (mainly cables not placed in the proper channels causing PCB stress+flex, and other stuff like that) that I had to fix myself before deciding to keep the machine, but in terms of build quality and important features (decent keyboard, awesome pointing device, wsxga+ on a 15.4" TFT) it's still better than anything else I've found at this price point ($800)...
Never having seen a modern T-, W- or R-Series model myself (I've only used older ones like the T4x and T60/61) I can't offer an opinion regarding those, but just extrapolating from my experiences with the SL500 (which is, as I mentioned above, the cheapest entry-level Thinkpad line - not even considered a real Thinkpad by most long-time Thinkpad users), I'd expect them to be better than other devices in their price range in terms of durability and input options.
How about repair? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like the Gateway/MPC 450-series laptops to me. The problem is usually the video system of the motherboard. Are you open to simply replacing the motherboard? Look at http://mundocorp.com/ [mundocorp.com] or http://blueraven.com/ [blueraven.com]. Either will sell you the parts or do the whole job for you.
To Mac or Not (Score:5, Informative)
I go to a lot of developer forums. Be it stuff designed in Java, PHP, Ruby, etc, there is one common thread I've noted of all the developers that present. 8 of 10 presents will use a mac. I switched a few years ago and couldn't be happier. I have VM Ware. Many people use VMs to run various windows versions, I like to use it to run Linux VMs that I eventually move off to other machines. Works fantastic. No need to reboot.
Now, if the OP is a .net person, well, Mac may not be for them. But there's something nice about being able to pop a BSD style terminal window.
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
I work for a company that does .NET development (with a product that doesn't even work outside IE), and yet about 1/4 of the developers use a MacBook (including myself).
They're pricey, but I figure that the cost is really very low considering I use it all day every day. Even if you're just going to run Windows in a VM or Boot Camp most of the time, MacBooks are very high quality machines.
If you don't *have* to run Windows, MacBook wins hands down if you can afford it.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The reason I could never take MAC seriously for any sort of business is lack of docking ports..
My old machine (loved it).. IBM T41p.. still one of the best laptops ever made - though out-dated
My current developer machine.. Dell Precision M4400.. 2.53ghz quad-core.. not huge, durable, RGB LED 1920x1200 screen, docking port, display port (can present using display port to dvi adapter), XP 64bit.. great for virtualization
It drives me nuts to see how often MAC gets recommended as a laptop.. Sure.. it's the nice
Re:To Mac or Not (Score:5, Insightful)
no corporation should ever consider using laptops that don't have docking ports.
This advise is just silly. I work for a large corporation (10K+ employees) and Mac is fully supported in every area of the business (along with PCs/Windows). I know it's really hard to plug 3 cables into the very accessible ports on the side of my computer every morning when I get to work, but somehow I manage.
So, let's not say "no corporation should ever" about anything. There are tradeoffs with most anything. Where you may want a dock, other people like me couldn't care less (I actually prefer not to have the extra hardware on my desk).
I think in general the "Macs are bad for business" argument died about 5 years ago. It's simply not true anymore. On the contrary, I find myself far more productive on my Mac. The computer I had before at the same company was an HP NC6220 running XP. It was a nightmare.
Re: (Score:2)
Disclaimer: I've been a Linux user since 1994.
For my recent position I decided to try full-time development on a Macbook Pro. Things have been... Less than pleasant.
I'm not used to a single application taking down the entire system, or frequent and unpredictable focus-switching. Those irritants came quickly, in the first few weeks. Common dev apps like the Cisco VPN, P4V, et al, behave very poorly in a Mac environment. Not an indictment of apple, for certain, but still a real irritant you
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Modifier Keys, select keyboard to apply to. I've had per-keyboard mappings (one for my macbook's builtin keyboard and one for my Model M) since 10.4.x (Tiger).
Hope that helps.
Re:To Mac or Not (Score:5, Interesting)
This has been true for a while, and even before Apple switched to x86; see, for example, Paul Graham's March 2005 essay, The Return of the Mac [paulgraham.com]:
A 13" MacBook will fulfill some but not all of the requirements listed by the OP (the major missing one being a dock) for $1,200, and it's relatively easy to virtualize and/or dual boot all three major OSes (Windows, Linux, OS X). What more is there?
MacBook Docks (Score:3, Informative)
A 13" MacBook will fulfill some but not all of the requirements listed by the OP (the major missing one being a dock) for $1,200, and it's relatively easy to virtualize and/or dual boot all three major OSes (Windows, Linux, OS X). What more is there?
BookEndz [bookendzdocks.com] sells a line of docks for Apple laptops but they look kind of clunky to me. Thanks to the USB hub in my display and bluetooth all I have to plug into my 13" MacBook when I sit down at my desk are the power cord, the Mini DisplayPort connector and the USB root connector which takes all of five seconds so I never felt the need to shell out €€€/$$$ for a dock. What really annoys me about the new MacBook Pro line is the built in battery, 7-8 hours of wifi enabled battery life are IMHO
In general... (Score:2, Interesting)
From my personal experience, if you want to have efficiency:
1. You will need as much screen estate as possible. Coding against spec? Against existing code? Against requirements? Writing tests against code? In all these cases you would want to have at least 2 windows open in parallel
Thus resolutions such as 1680x1050 or 1920x1080 are desirable. Don't go for 1280x800 unless portability is #1 goal.
2. Compiling ... Compiling ...
Investing in faster CPU will pay off in both short and long term. You won't be able
Easy: ThinkPad. (Score:5, Informative)
ThinkPad has the hotswap bays, excellent Linux support, excellent hardware support and turnaround from the factory, and there's always a 20% off coupon floating around. You can get a T series laptop with discrete graphics and well equipped for that $1,200 you're willing to spend, and probably far less. Not only that, but you generally get higher resolution displays than you get with Dell or Gateway laptops.
As for your Windows 98 installs -- why not use VirtualBox?
Value Line and save. (Score:2, Informative)
If you can, why not save a few bucks and get the "Value Line" or be able to spend the extra money on more RAM, peripherals, etc.... or beer? I see a few features with the Thinkpad line that may be unnecessary for a developer.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The Value Line lacks the nice ThinkVantage tools like System Update, gets rid of the Trackpoint in most cases, the spill free keyboard in most cases, and the keyboard and trackpad aren't as good. As much as I enjoy saving money, playing with a VL for a few minutes convinced me to continue buying ThinkPad.
Thinkpad is worth considering (Score:2)
I'm typing this response from a Thinkpad R500 :-)
Thinkpad docks are solid and have been around a long time, as have hotswap bays; some stuff like memory card readers are already present. Ubuntu works very well with both suspend and hibernate, many models support dual monitors via the dock (I think mine supports dual external monitors via the VGA and DisplayPort connectors, but haven't tested more than one external monitor; according to documentation two external monitors via the dock aren't supported), and
I am not so enthusiastic (Score:2)
I am also typing this from a T500 -- I am running Ubuntu 9.04 on it and I keep having problems with the graphics. The laptop comes with an ATI Mobility Radeon and the default driver doesnt deliver proper 3D performance and the proprieatry driver causes problems and X crashes.
The keyboard is ok, but not the good quality any more that oler Thinkpads had to offer.
Also, Lenovo does not offer to sell the laptop without a forced Windows license.
Another problem at least in my country is that Lenovo does not offer
Re: (Score:2)
I'll admit I have yet to hear anything positive about AMD/ATI's proprietary Linux driver, and it's been a while since anyone seemed to say nice things about the open source X.org driver either. Mine has integrated Intel graphics, and it works great; I can't play 3D games, but a) I program on this laptop, not game, and b) it runs Linux; how high should your hopes really be?
I previously had a T21, and yes, the keyboard was a little better - I guess your mileage may vary how much worse you think it is.
Also, I
Why Laptop? (Score:2)
Laptops, notebooks, netbooks etc all have their uses. (I am using one now while I watch TV). They seem to suffer from a couple of problems though...
Most of these problems are irrespective of the OS or make. These things are designed for specific uses, portability etc. If you want something to do your regular work on, get something with a full sized keyboard, mouse & screen. L
Re: (Score:2)
All of these problems are easily solved [flickr.com]
My laptop has enough power. If I wanted more, I could get a "desktop replacement" laptop; but I'm fine with what I've got.
When I'm not going mobile, I plug in a keyboard. I can even drive the classic AT keyboard you see in this picture, via adapters which aren't expensive at all.
I've also plugged in an auxilliary monitor.
My chair (not pictured) is not fancy, but it's comfortable enough for me.
As you can see, I've even got multimedia speakers plugged in. I watch vi
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Hm? Laptops are more expensive. But cheaper than a laptop and a desktop. Presumably the guy wants to have the option of taking the thing with him.
Laptops aren't underpowered for development work. They're underpowered for hard core gamers but that's about it. If you find your laptop is underpowered for development you really should be considering what the users of your code might be running it on.
My notebook (MBP) has a full size keyboard, except for the numeric keypad. I've never used the numeric keyp
Hmm Developer Laptop... (Score:2, Interesting)
So, I guess, you would want the laptop to come with Java preinstalled [apple.com] (if you a Java Dev), or PHP / Apache [apple.com] installed, if you are that way inclinded. For source control, best make sure it comes with a mainstream SCM software, something like Subversion [apple.com] and hopefully the same company will create an IDE that supports it out of the box [apple.com], while at the same time recognizing that alternative IDE's are out there [apple.com] and provide support and assistance to those who want to use it. Of course, been a developer laptop, ha
TROLL???? Moderator, are you on Crack? (Score:2)
Please remind me exactly why my post is troll...
I have a guess (Score:2, Insightful)
Windows 98 (I have really old embedded software compilers that only run on 98, and yes I have tried every trick in the book to make them run on Linux)...
If can't get it to run on Linux, what will make it run on Mac OS?
Your post does have a bit of Mac Fanboy feel to it - just saying.
Re:TROLL???? Moderator, are you on Crack? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's about the 50th comment recommending a Macbook, despite the other 50 comments noting that a Macbook doesn't qualify for any of the OP's needs. It's a shame that buying a Mac comes with an EULA demading you work as a freelance PR agent for Apple. Also, it's a shame that you morons will recommend buying a Mac even when it blatantly isn't fit for the job.
If big is OK (Score:2)
I've loved my HP HDX series laptop. Now, it's probably the largest laptop you will ever buy, but for development it is awesome. It has an 18.4" display, built-in blue ray ROM, and two internal hard drives and an e-sata port for a hot-swappable external. I can easily run two virtual machines at the same time on it (using Vista as the host operating system) and there's enough screen space to arrange your development environment however you want.
If that is too large for you they also have a 16" version of the
Re: (Score:2)
I've loved my HP HDX series laptop. Now, it's probably the largest laptop you will ever buy, but for development it is awesome. It has an 18.4" display, built-in blue ray ROM, and two internal hard drives and an e-sata port for a hot-swappable external. I can easily run two virtual machines at the same time on it (using Vista as the host operating system) and there's enough screen space to arrange your development environment however you want.
If that is too large for you they also have a 16" version of the laptop.
As for its portability, I have hauled it all over Europe via backpack (using one of the giant Rick Steves traveling backpacks). It worked for me, but I'm young and didn't have to walk miles with it or anything. It was just small enough to be used on all the flights I've taken on so far. If it was any larger you'd have to be in business class to use it without interfering with others.
The base 18" version comes in at around $1200.
Each to his own. My laptop, that I use for development, has one major criterion: it must be light, because I carry it around with me everywhere. Less important criteria: it must have a full-sized keyboard (so no netbooks). The sweet spot with those two criteria are things like the HP Elite series, such as the 2510p that I have right now. Not the fastest notebook around, and lacks many of the hot swapping features that the OP requested, but when I need stuff that the OP listed, I am invariably sitting at
Virtualizing is "almost" the answer (Score:4, Informative)
But as most/many people know, a virtualized Windows9x installation often doesn't work particularly well. In VirtualBox, it all but doesn't work at all because of the way "idle" time is handled. (I don't recall having much trouble using VMWare workstation long ago however)
Virtualizing instead of multi-booting is a far better idea for me. I use Windows XP on rare occasion and I definitely don't like taking my Linux down to run another OS.
For professionals? (Score:3, Interesting)
Any of these I recommend over home/gaming/entertainment equipment.
What's the best developer's laptop? (Score:2)
I ask Slashdot: What is your pick for best developer's laptop under $1,200, considering the features above?"
The problem I have with this is the price. I too wanted a new laptop for development, and photography. After making a list of requirements, from a fast CPU to a fast and large hard disk drive, I looked at a bunch of laptops. The cheapest laptop I found that met the requirements was more than twice as expensive. Prices have come down since then and if you have an open mind on the hardware and softw
Get an Ubuntu netbook Remix to go with it. (Score:2)
My setup is a little different then what the OP is looking for, but it works well for me, in case anyone else is interested.
For 300 euros, I bought an Asus Eee 1000HE several months ago. The honest 6+ hrs battery life plus its weight makes it truly ultraportable, since I don't need to carry any cord or brick in my backpack. The Ubuntu Netbook interface works well on the small screen, and the CPU is efficient running Linux, & Firefox, etc. Skype audio/video doesn't work well I find (the Ubuntu Skype vers
Acer Aspire One (Score:3, Informative)
Couldn't be much happier. When I'm in the office or home I hook up my USB keyboard/Mouse, my large monitor and 500G backup drive (for nightly backups of my subversion DB.).
When I'm out and about the long extension cord comes in handy. So does the two hour battery life. Sure, there are times when I really need to plug in and I can't so the trick is to keep your battery full (charge overnight) and when I hit the cafes I wait for the tables near the power plugs to empty out and jump on those tables. I've not had any problems. YMMV depending on location.
The small size really does mean portable. I've got 160G HD, 1.6G Hz ATOM CPU. Unless your compiling multi-million line projects, I find mine rather comfy. I built the entire boost library in ~1.5 hours.
Now for the killer: less than $300.00!! My last LT cost me almost $3,000.00 but was a PITA to lug around. It's still a fantastic machine but it's been relegated to the special projects heap. If this LT goes, who gives a crap. remove the HD, copy the data from the it (if it didn't make the nightly backups), buy another cheap-ass LT and move on with life.
It runs linux fine. I've been playing with SLAX lately (still a little flaky from a USB key, though) and it's exceeded my needs there, too. The Atheros WIFI card works great. (My HP never got the WIFI working.)
The only draw back I have with the device is its small screen resolution: 1024x600. Yes, that's six hundred.
Now, I've not done it but a friend of mine tells me his son runs WOW on his. I wouldn't run games as there isn't much in the way of cooling for the LT - no bottom fans. Just a large intake vent on the front and a exhaust port on the LHS.
I use both a Thinkpad t61p and MacBook Pro (Score:3, Interesting)
MacBook Pro advantages:
+ much brighter screen
+ Nicer OS w/ native Unix support
+ trackpad is way better if you use trackpads
Lenovo Thinkpad t61p advantages:
+ 1920x1200 resolution fits *alot* of code on one screen
+ better build quality-- yes, I think the build quality is better than the macbook pro
+ its got the trackpoint (aka nipple) if you don't like the trackpad
+ much better keyboard
Consider a Dell Latitude E-series. (Score:4, Interesting)
I just bought a new laptop to replace the mobile workstation our school gives us (HP nw8240 for the 2005 class; now you know where I go to school!). While that computer was, even to today's standards, pretty freaking fast, I had no warranty on it and saw that the LCD was going at some points.
Instead of waiting a few months, I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade two weeks ago. I was deliberating between a non-unibody Macbook Pro, a Dell Precision M-series and a Latitude E-series. Since I commute and am moving around a lot, I really wanted a computer that could take a bit of a beating and hold a decent charge, all while still being not being as powerful and svelte as my old machine.
In the end, I landed up getting a Latitude E6500 with the Intel Core 2 Duo CPU (P8600 - 2.4GHz with 3MB L2 Cache), 2GB of RAM (though the eBay ad advertised it as having 3GB...bastards :p), 80GB SATA hard drive, nVIDIA Quadro NVS 160M 256MB discrete graphics (not good for Crysis, but good enough for a non-gamer like myself :D), 15.4" LED WXGA LCD and an integrated webcame (VERY IMPORTANT) for $695 shipped.
This thing is awesome. Scratch that; it's FREAKING awesome. It runs Windows 7 like a Cadillac, looks damn good, has THE perfect keyboard (no, really...it's really, really good) and is pretty light (something like six pounds). It's 6-cell battery usually lasts me 3.5 hours, which is perfect for me. Thus, doing development work on it (right now, I'm working on projects in C, though I mainly do a good amount of scripting and am learning C# in the future) is just fantastic. You might want a bigger LCD; they have a WUXGA LED screen available, which I hear is phenomenal. I personally wanted something with a lower-resolution, as I hardly use 1920x1200 anyway (and most mobile graphics cards can't push that many pixels smoothly anyway when under load).
To add, I can get the fingerprint sensor, Bluetooth module and LED-backlit keyboard from Dell (more like from eBay) when I need it. Oh, and it came with a 3-year limited warranty, which isn't business-class, but it's perfect for me.
In short: Macbooks are still overpriced, and AppleCare still comes separately. My Latitude does EVERYTHING a Macbook would do (yes, it even runs OS X successfully)...while looking just as good and with more AWESOME.
A Thinkpad (Score:3, Informative)
The best developers laptop is a Thinkpad. End of discussion. There is a Thinkpad model for everyone, and they have the most open-source friendly hardware. There is not a single other manufacturer which provides similiar features in a package as appealing as a Thinkpad. As far as I am concerned, and I have tried to use everything from plastic-fantastic to Dells to expensive Vaios, there is only one option for a serious developer. A used Thinkpad T42, which is in my opinion made for developing software, is to be had for something like $200-$250. A new Thinkpad T400 costs $1000, and a T400s, its slimmer brother and IBM/Lenovos most expensive offering these days, is about $1300.
Re:ehh (Score:5, Funny)
And it meets none of the poster's requirements. Good jerb!
requirements (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:requirements (Score:4, Insightful)
The presence of a docking station port is hardly an indication that a laptop is not well made.
Plenty of users - myself included - have need for a larger and/or dual-monitor display and full keyboard for some tasks, while valuing comfort and portability the rest of the time (like when reading Slashot). Docking stations are not absolutely necessary to achieve this, but make it a lot more convenient.
When evaluating how well-made a laptop is, I look at things like how the keys feel, how responsive the touch pad is, how bright and sharp the display is, how the speakers sound, how the lid feels when opening and closing it. How hot it gets.
I also look at what type of connectors it has. Having a docking station connector is a plus.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A well made laptop needs a "port replicator" or "docking station" like a fish needs a bicycle.
Can you direct me towards a laptop capable of driving two 30" LCDs without a docking station ?
Can you explain to me why I should have to go through the annoyance of plugging in a half dozen cables every time I sit down at one of the three desks I regularly work at ?
A well made a laptop doesn't need a docking station ? Any laptop that _doesn't_ have an option for a docking station is a consumer toy.
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Can you direct me towards a laptop capable of driving two 30" LCDs without a docking station ?
It is highly unlikely that someone with a budget allowing dual 30" displays (and that's just for one desk - you mentioned three), would be limited to $1200 for the laptop.
This guy is running Windows 98, Ubuntu and XP Pro. How's the drivers situation for running the two 30" displays (plus the laptops' own screen) on those OSes? Can Windows 98 and XP run much more than a debugger on the second screen?
This guy coul
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Re:ehh (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the "benefits" of the extra swappable drive bay are nullified in newer laptops.
Here's his list: CD/DVD R/W, extra battery, floppy drive, extra hard drive, memory card reader, etc
Floppy drives are obsolete
Since this is a developers' machine, a 17" should have 2 drive bays, so who needs to swap out drives? Failing that, use an external USB drive.
Memory card readers are built in nowadays.
If you're going to be lugging an extra battery around, just carry a spare.
So just go with the built-in DVD R/W, built in 4 USB ports, built-in 2nd hard drive, built-in card reader, etc. A grand should get you all this, including 4 gigs of ram and twin 500 gig hard drives.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If you're going to be lugging an extra battery around, just carry a spare.
Yeah, because nothing's quite so convenient as hibernating your laptop, swapping out the batteries, and resuming.
Actually the double-convenience of the swappable bay battery is that if you don't want to lug anything extra around, and you know you need the battery life and not the CD/DVD, you can drop that extra battery RIGHT IN YOUR LAPTOP and don't need to carry it separately. Added bonus: don't waste power spinning up the CD at boot time.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason you need to swap the battery is because there is no external power to plug the thing in to.
I'll leave taking a laptop with some holes drilled in it and some wires connecting it to an external battery pack though said holes through airport security for you, thanks.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm happy with 1440 x 900 for a 17" laptop - but I've seen the same model, but with a lower-res screen - 1280x800.
The question I have is how much squinting at fine fonts I'd do at 1920x1200 on only 17" of screen - it's great on a 26", but can't see it being that good on a laptop.
Re: (Score:2)
You are not really being objective. You are comparing your older generation notebook with your current generation Mac Book. That accounts for the price better than whether Mac is value for it's price (maybe it is, but that is a different argument). It would have helped if you detailed how you defined build quality and stability. Should be easy given that you claim remarkable difference, not subtle. And it would have been fair to compare the your current MacBook to a current Windows laptop (not that I expect
one at a time (Score:2)
Re:ehh (Score:5, Insightful)
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What magazines have done is irrelevent to me against comparisions *I* have done, for myself, using hardware configurations I care about. You can swing numbers all over the place depending on what options you want, but without fail, I can get the machine I want from IBM or Dell for significantly less than I'd get from Apple. I'd also get a keyboard and touchpad that doesn't make me want to kill myself.
at the same
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The only devs that Macs are good for are Mac devs? (Score:5, Insightful)
The only devs that Macs are good for are Mac devs.
You do realize that OS X is a certified [opengroup.org] Unix? That means that OS X shares an enormous commonality/overlap with the entire *nix software developing world including AIX, HPUX, Solaris, BSD and Linux. In fact OS X ships with a huge amount of OSS software pre-installed along with Apple's own proprietary stuff and optional developer packages that include a lot more OSS stuff. Apple also contributes to the OSS movement. Macs are also quite popular for all kinds of platform independent and web development. Apple deserves criticism like any other soulless megacorp and their computers aren't the best development machines ever conceived by the mind of man but Macs are useful for a lot more than just Mac development.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
hundreds of flavors of *nix for free, yet none of them run iMovie, iTunes, iDvd, Photoshop, Illustrator, Aperture, Lightroom, Visio*, Word, Excel, an Exchange client or a dozen other business/personal critical apps for normal human beings.
Do a check - last time I priced a Dell with comparable hardware to a Mac, they were MORE expensive, not less.
I own a lovely Sony Vaio, and ditched it for a 24" iMac which was _cheaper_, faster, ran OS X not Vista, so could do more with less, and supported Apache/Postgresql
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Weeelll... you can't just nuke it and install anything yet. I tried to install only Linux on the Macbook I have only to find it uses EFI only, so until grub2 makes it into distros and it fully supports the Macbook EFI, you're stuck with having OS X around just to setup bootcamp (and emulate the regular BIOS, I guess)
I have read they don't have all the bugs nailed out in grub2/EFI/Macbooks yet, and this post: http://www.mail-archive.com/grub-devel@gnu.org/msg12901.html [mail-archive.com] looks like it agrees with what I read.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Isn't Grub2 one of the features of Ubuntu Karmic Koala?
EFI (Score:3, Informative)
Weeelll... you can't just nuke it and install anything yet. I tried to install only Linux on the Macbook I have only to find it uses EFI only, so until grub2 makes it into distros and it fully supports the Macbook EFI, you're stuck with having OS X around just to setup bootcamp (and emulate the regular BIOS, I guess)
You can install and use rEFIt [sourceforge.net] on an Intel Mac. Of course it's a good idea to keep a bootable OS X partition if no other reason than to update firmware.
To tell the truth I don't know why anyone
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Build quality? Really?
My MBP's keyboard backlight was misbehaving within a couple of months of buying it. The machine regularly overheated playing games. The motherboard fried itself and needed replacement after a couple of years. The DVD drive is now extremely fussy about recognizing an inserted disc.
The last two Dell laptops I've owned each lasted well over 5 years with no problems.
Macs may have their advantages, but IMHO build quality is not one of them. You know, to be brutally honest.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I happen to agree with this poster about the dell laptops. I have had 3, the most current one I run is an Inspiron 8500 and it works very well. the others were also dell laptops.
I think the most important thing I do with my laptop is the cleaning, I bust it open every year, take out all the dust an 4 times a year I just remove the fan and blow that dust out.
it has survived decently well.
Re:brutal honesty (Score:4, Insightful)
Expressing my personal opinion is not a logical fallacy. Reporting my personal experience is not a logical fallacy. My inferences regarding build quality drawn from that experience, while subject to the usual caveats about inductive reasoning, are no less reasonable than those drawn by the O.P.
So I'm a little mystified as to what on Earth you're complaining about.
Re:brutal honesty (Score:5, Funny)
Heathen.
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I fix laptops for a living and Macs don't seem to be any more or less reliable than other brands.* This is based on fixing around 80 laptops a month.
The main issue is that they are a bugger to work on when things go wrong and the parts are about 2x the price of Acer or Toshiba parts. Sony is the only other brand that rivals them for that.
* Every HP made in the last few years has the nVidia chipset failure problem so they have around a 100% mortality rate after a year or two. Toshibas all seem to get clogged
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I had a cheap ass Gateway laptop that lasted me for 4 years, while a friend's Macbook died within a few months. On
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make sure you get the extended warranty then - I've had to replace the battery, hard drive, dvd player, and screen of my macbook, and this thing doesn't even get used when I'm not travelling.
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A docking port! I've run into the same issue... it really, really gets annoying plugging in DVI, keyboard, mouse, network when I want to take my Macbook to work!
Jeez Apple 1999 called they want their already solved problem back
(see here for thread started in 2006... http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-244340.html [macrumors.com] )
BookEndz for the docking station nerds (Score:2)
Hey upstream docking station whiners! Have you heard of this new fangled thingy called Google [google.com]? You might like it.
Re: (Score:2)
While the Mac may be a predictable answer, it doesn't answer the challenge of a port replicator or a hot swappable drive bay.
While I have to disclose that I'm typing this on a 24" iMac Merom, and that i own 100 shares of Apple, the MacBook Pro comes closes to the challenge, given the hefty built-in battery and optical drive (and no need to choose between them), but only barely meets the price. You won't find a MacBook Pro docking station either. The processor will be a noticable upgrade, and a few vitrual
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
For the umpteenth time, a Mac doesn't fit what he needs. There are no Macbooks which offer hot-swappable drive bays or docking ports. And a Dell Latitude with a 9-cell can also use a slice battery and bay drive battery which will get you well over a Macbook's 7 hours. With a solid state drive you can be into double digits of battery life easily.
A Mac fits some needs, some very well in fact, but the submitter is not going to find what he needs from Apple.