Is Working For the Gambling Industry a Black Mark? 467
An anonymous reader writes 'I'm a recent university graduate and I have been offered a software developer position in a company that supplies software to the gambling and betting industry. At first I was very excited about the opportunity, however, a few of my friends have told me that working for the gambling industry will put a permanent black mark on my career as a software developer. I don't know that many people in the industry with experience in hiring. Google has not helped, and everybody else I ask doesn't know. So I'm asking Slashdot. In your experience is this true? When you hire developers, is the fact that they worked for a gambling company a big turn off? Also, I'm currently in the UK, but would like the freedom of working in US or somewhere else later on in life. So experience from anywhere in the world is welcome.'
Uh, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
A job is a job (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe if this, working for the gambling industry, is your concern, you don't really need a job.
Yes and No (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No. Its not a black mark. Its a bad industry (Score:3, Insightful)
In Nevada. If you were to move elsewhere, though, you might be surprised.
(Might be. I personally don't know... I just think that perspectives might be a bit skewed in Nevada due to Vegas).
Re:porn? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not entirely sure how you managed to arrive at this conclusion.
People gambling aren't always idiots that think "Ima go win a million bucks". Often times they are people that do it for recreation or fun knowing full well that they're loosing money. For example, you can gamble at a slot machine for many hours on only $20-$50. Some people have fun watching the wheels spin and lights flash. For them, it's worth the money. Other people enjoy the social aspect of gambling such as in blackjack where the players aren't competing against each other. Or in craps, where the players are all competing against... the shooter... or the house.. unless they roll a 7 and it's the third tuesday of the month.... anyway, there's a lot of people cheering for someone so someone is having fun.
Re:No. Its not a black mark. Its a bad industry (Score:5, Insightful)
You've just described about 90% of all jobs.
The Value Proposition (Score:2, Insightful)
We seem to get a lot of these sorts of questions at /. -- and as someone who interviews and makes hiring decisions, let me tell you about the number one factor for making the call:
The Value Proposition
At the end of the day, what I'm doing is entering into an agreement where I give you money (and things that cost money, ie. benefits), and you give me your labor. Your skills and experience and a few other factors (ie. culture fit) alter your "productivity", or how much "labor" I get for my money. In other words, I am spending my money on you, and I want to make sure I get good "value" for that money.
As such, I really don't particularly care who you worked for in the past, unless it can be used as some predictor of future performance. I do care about the skills and experience you have picked up along the way, your personality, your thought-process, etc.
Occasionally, very occasionally, the "where you used to work" question does become relevant. If your last job was for a blood-relative, that is going to be a yellow-flag that needs further investigation and verification. That's probably the most common scenario where it comes into play.
Black Mark (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Isn't that a highly regulated industry? (Score:3, Insightful)
IGT is one of the worlds largest suppliers of slot machines, and trust me, they hire just as many mediocre programmers as any other industry. The thing is that because releases of slot machines and other gaming devices throughout the US is so heavily regulated that they have better quality control and testing procedures than most other industries. The on top of that the gaming commissions from each state that allow gaming follow up with their own testing procedures and protocols. Even with all of that slots with bugs still get out. There were three men recently arrested on the east coast for getting a slot tech to put a machine into a different game mode, and then used a series of rapid button presses/screen changes to cause the slot to fail and award erroneous jackpots. They apparently got about $300k before it was figured out what was going on. Of course the fact that they always hit on the same machine should have been the first clue to casino staff.
As for it being a black mark on your resume... well that's probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of unless of course this person is indeed referring to offshore/shady gambling sites. Not that there aren't or can't be legitimate online gaming sources, just that I wouldn't trust most of them.
Anything but telemarketing is kind-of ok :-) (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see experience with a gambling site to be an instant disqualifier. Maybe if that's the only kind of site you were involved in it would be, but if it's one of various projects, it shouldn't be big deal.
The only time a resume gets thrown into the trashcan right away is if I see "telemarketing" in any fashion that doesn't involve stopping them or hunting them down. It's something you try to hide, not something to put on your resume. I want someone with some brains.
Also, as an aside: try to avoid going into detail about any activities that are trivial compared to the job you're applying for. Some people seem to think that if they have a 10 page resume padded with irrelevant history, they'll look better. Nope, doesn't work.
Re:porn? (Score:1, Insightful)
There is one and only one way of winning in gamling. Luck.
What you say is true for some forms of gambling such as keno or the lottery, but there are other forms where knowledge of the game and skill actually do play a big part. Blackjack has been beaten badly, and, at least in the past, with methods that no reasonable person (which excludes pit bosses and casino executives) would consider cheating. There's also a reason you often see one or more of a comparatively small set of professionals at the final table of big poker tournaments. These folks are highly skilled and experienced players who know how to do the math. Being able to read people helps too.
On the hiring topic, I can see where some people would look unfavorably on someone who'd been employed in the gambling industry. Some people would probably look unfavorably on my years spent building defense systems. I don't think either of these groups make up a significant portion of hiring managers in engineering. I suspect most would find a job in the gambling industry to be interesting.
Re:Not a black mark (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't associate the gambling industry with organized crime, but I consider it predatory. Still, gotta legalize it or it'll just be run by criminals again.
Re:porn? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:porn? (Score:3, Insightful)
Making choices based on your future career prospects is bad. Making choices based on magic is good! Great advice!
Anything can be a black mark. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Isn't that a highly regulated industry? (Score:4, Insightful)
I read that as "Moron"
Re:porn? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sadly, they are similiar in that people cheat either way.
Whether it's loaded dice or insider data, someone is always happy to rip someone else off.
Re:A job is a job (Score:5, Insightful)
Try doing some research on economics before you speak next time.
The rich tend to lose the most during recessions, due to most of their wealth being in stocks. That's why it has been shown many times throughout history that the wealth gap shrinks after recessions because stocks lose so much value and many people sell what they had instead of holding it because they are worried about losing ALL of the money in stocks.
Secondly, as businesses lose money, they lay people off (or go bankrupt) which means less people have jobs and so on. When people stop having money coming in, they can't pay bills. When they can't pay bills (wait for it!) the person they owe money to loses money . That's why we're in this mess - people bought more than they could afford and then started defaulting on bills, due to the defaults companies laid people off, defaults increased - add to that people then being afraid to spend money due to fear of losing their job, and it spiraled to where we are now (though we are slowly recovering).
All you did in your post was show a complete ignorance of Economics.
Re:The parent is correct. (Score:2, Insightful)
one man I knew was fond of making quite genuine threats to the life and limb of his programming team, to coerce them to go along with his dishonest schemes
FBI agents make careers on that kind of bust. Someone should have made a call.
LK
Gaming Experience: I've never had any problems. (Score:2, Insightful)
I spent the first twelve years of my career working in both the Class II and Class III gaming industries, we don't call it gambling. :)
I'm primarily a systems administrator and recently decided to find a job outside of the gaming industry. I had expected to find that employers may be concerned about my past employment. On the contrary, most of the employers I interviewed with seemed to be curious about the industry and many of them thought that my experiences from that industry could be an asset.
The gaming biz is very fast paced, requires real-time systems, requires massive networks, requires high-speed communication, requires complex databases, extensive code-review, requires extensive documentation and may requires extensive background investigations (for certain positions). There's a lot to learn in the business and it's a great place to cut your teeth, it's also very broad regarding the types of development that're needed and you could find just about any type of development position you'd want.
Just like any industry, there are both good and bad things about the gaming biz but I've enjoyed my time in the business and may go back to it someday and I'd definitely recommend it to others.
Also, I know few developers in Vancouver that were in the biz for a couple of years and they had no trouble with transitions to other industries.
-tharant
Re:Not a black mark (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:porn? (Score:4, Insightful)
How is it so hard to understand that playing a game for stakes can be simple, recreational fun? Going into an evening of gambling with only the money you are prepared to lose is no different than going to a fair or holiday holding only the money you are prepared to spend on rides, gifts, foods, and frivolous purchases.
Re:porn? (Score:2, Insightful)
I work in the gaming industry (Score:3, Insightful)
I work in the gaming industry for the last 8 years currently as a programmer, just like you at a place where gambling operations are legal. Before working as a programmer I worked as a sysadmin and for a year as a manager (with technical duties too). I have a formal college degree and I pay taxes and report my income. So does the company where I have a full time consultant (oxymoron??) deal.
What I see this far is that there are good and bad guys in the industry. While I consider casinos a total scam (even the honest ones) sports betting operations are usually a lot better. Also credit vs post-up operations differ a lot from each other post up ones being more problematic (charge backs, books does not want to pay, legal problems with US gamblers, etc).
About the US concern: our company does not accept US bettors' money, is completely legal here and so writing programs (or maintaining them) is not illegal by any standards. I see more contacts and work in the industry than at any other workplace this far. Everyone knows everyone and if you are willing to do and can take a little stress here and there you will have people wanting to hire you left and right. Mostly from the gaming industry though.
There is a movie with a quote "Where there is gambling there are criminals", and take this as an advice. There are people in the industry I do not want to talk to, do not want to be seen with, do not want to know and feel extremely uncomfortable around. Not necessarily criminals, but people whose behavior is not compatible with my standards, but then again I saw upper management at the largest computer manufacturer's IT/Middleware division who did not behave much better than that.
So... my bet (pun intended) is that you have to look at the environment and the people you will have to work with/for and make a decision. Also find out about what sites/services they run and google the hell out of it. If you see that there are payout complaints and similar issues; RUN.
I once worked at a place where it became evident that they were ripping people off, I quit after the next paycheck.
Oh, consider that at gaming operations you might have to deal with extreme paranoia if you are anywhere near their data (financial or player info). You do not want to steal and email out their player list or do something similarly stupid. Be clear about not wanting to see any data or make sure you follow protocol near data. If you are tempted to "prove that their security sucks" either make sure they know your are about to demonstrate something or do not do it. Trust me on that one.....
Soooo.. this is my 5c of advice, just use common sense and if you see something wrong just pack your stuff and go somewhere else.
Cheers
Re:Not a black mark (Score:4, Insightful)
I would think this depends a lot on what exactly you are doing. If you're writing a DB back-end for a Caribbean island company who specializes in selling what is likely to be illegal gambling services to americans, that might be a black eye for your resume.
Then again, if you're writing bleeding edge gambling software for video poker machines, that could be a huge positive mark on the resume.
Re:A job is a job (Score:4, Insightful)
Rich does not necessarily equal "powerful". Yes, powerful politicians stay in power at the expense of everyone else, but that's not how it is with business owners.
I know this will come as a shock to a collectivist who thinks that business owners are the enemy, but business owners create jobs. If Joe doesn't start his pizza company, there's no delivery boys, no waitresses, no cooks, no cashiers. Fact of life is that rich people are the ones creating jobs for most of the population.
Re:Isn't that a highly regulated industry? (Score:1, Insightful)
You're a fucking idiot. Does the term "mark" mean anything to you? Shit, you might as well tell your young blonde daughter with big tits and a heavy lisp that she will make it as an actress in hollywood - if not just for the experience.
Goddamn, what is it about paid serial killers that turns people on? Let me assure you, they ain't cool, they ain't romantic, they don't follow rules, most of them can't run a business for shit, and if they think you got something they want they will put a knife to your throat and tell you to put a trojan on the system or die. You get to go to prison when it's all said and done, they walk with the money or you get to hide for the rest of your life.
Re:porn? (Score:3, Insightful)
There is one and only one way of winning in gamling. Luck.
I don't know about gamling, but gambling is different.
It all depends on the type of gambling involved. If you are playing against the house, then the only path for success is to attempt to exploit short term variance, because the long term odds always favor the house.
However, if you're playing against other players - that is, if you're playing poker or you're a parimutuel player, then you can succeed simply by being more skillful than your opponents.
Hint: The object of poker is not to win or lose the pot at hand. The object of poker is to make the correct decision at every opportunity. If every decision you make has the most positive expected value possible, then you will succeed.
sorry, nope look at the numbers (Score:3, Insightful)
How many of those people are the "slow players?" There are a few high rollers in any given casino and the fact they are treated well is simple logic - but those high rollers can also win and the house has to cover it. How do they cover it? On all those "slow players."
Why do you think casinos have player's clubs? There's not a casino around that doesn't offer perks of some sort and there are scads of people who exchange info on these perks and use that info in selecting their next vacation destination. Retirees sometimes count in that lot but as often as not don't.
Those "slow gamblers" are the bread and butter. They're the people willing to write off 50 or 100 bucks as "entertainment expenses" and will leave happy and return first chance they get so long as they have a full belly from a cheap dinner, or a nice buzz from the cheap booze, or just a good attitude brought on by the hours of fun and the good floor show they watched while they played.
People become addicted to gambling and lose sight of reality. This is no different than any other addiction. You can't make other people's weakness your problem or you'll never work again - I can't work in food services cuz fat people will get fatter; I can't work in medicine because people use hospitals to seek drugs and avoid work; I can't work in the engineering sector because someone might use my project for stealing data or swapping kiddy porn or whatever.
Gambling is entertainment. I know dozens of people who love to gamble and venture from time to time to the casinos. Not one of them leaves for the casino expecting anything but a full belly and a good time. It's not a problem for a single one of them - save for most are too poor due to the aftereffects of king george's collapsed economy to play as often as they'd like.
Re:great experience (Score:3, Insightful)
Nah, oranges and apples here: the gaming is much more tightly regulated.
Re:Anything but telemarketing is kind-of ok :-) (Score:3, Insightful)
Talent is not in short supply, ethics are. Given that you dismiss my resentment of one of *the* most annoying activities as mere "personal bias" shows that you have neither.
Re:porn? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Isn't that a highly regulated industry? (Score:4, Insightful)
Tax benefits AND the right to discriminate openly?
Hell, if I start a business, it's going to be a religion.