Reusing Old TiVo Hardware? 197
buss_error writes "I have old TiVo hardware that I'd like to reuse — however, I find in searching that the most frequent reply is: 'Don't cheat TiVo!' I don't want to cheat TiVo — in fact, I'd like to nuke the drive with a completely open-source distro with no TiVo drivers at all. Some uses I think would be interesting: recording video for security cameras or a drive cam; a unit for weather reporting; fax/telephone; a power monitor for the home; or other home automation. I would prefer a completely TiVo-free install — this is because I have major issues with TiVo and don't want the slightest taint of their intellectual property. But, since I paid for the hardware, I'd like to wring some use out of it rather than simply putting it in the landfill."
TiVO-IZATION (Score:3, Informative)
Isn't TiVO-ization one of the main reasons why the GPL was updated to v3?
They call it Tivoization. (Score:5, Informative)
Everyone knows that you can't do anything with a tivo. It may be using open-source software, but the hardware checks the software's checksum, and if it doesn't match, it simply doesn't run the software. If you remember, this is a major reason (if not the only reason) why Richard Stallman got all upset and created GPL v3.
The security cam recording might be easy (Score:5, Informative)
Some possibilities (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.debian.org/ports/mipsel/ [debian.org]
* An older thread on video sharing hacking with TIVO boxes
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25139 [dealdatabase.com]
* Knoppix MythTV
http://www.mysettopbox.tv/ [mysettopbox.tv]
Re:The security cam recording might be easy (Score:5, Informative)
Now THAT is interesting. Great idea. The cool thing is that a series 2 can record 2 channels at the same time, so you could have 2 security cameras. You can also use Tivo Desktop to move the videos off to your PC if you wanted longer term storage.
check this site (Score:3, Informative)
Re:They call it Tivoization. (Score:5, Informative)
It's not the only reason. The American software patent system is, fundamentally, insane unless you're a large corporation that can afford a suite of patents large enough to provide Mutual Assured Destruction for anyone who sues you. But the NVidia kernel drivers, Microsoft's McCarthy-like claim of "47 infringing patents" and the lack of software patents in Europe made software patents important to deal with.
Similar problems are inherent in Microsoft's Palladium digital rights management system, relabeled "Trusted Computing". The idea that it is for "protection" is naive and not based on looking at how the software works: it's designed to block software, and files, and _hardware_ from working with anything else but vendor authorized components.
WHO TAGGED THIS HARDHACK? IT IS _NOT_! (Score:1, Informative)
Uhm.....NOT a hardhack. A hardhack involves hardware modification to the hardware at a nontrivial level. How is this then a hardhack?
Re:The security cam recording might be easy (Score:5, Informative)
That's only true for the oldest, Series 1 TiVo's sold before a certain date. After that, TiVo requires service. No service, and no manual recording.
And, as I recall, it'll also nag you about the lack of service every time you go into the menus.
Re:The security cam recording might be easy (Score:2, Informative)
Check it out, but From what I've read, the old TiVo's, the series 1's can do this type of recording like a VCR. The newer ones will shut down that feature.
I've also heard that if don't let the series 2 or higher TiVo phone home after you delete the account, you might be able to bypass that restriction.
Re:The security cam recording might be easy (Score:5, Informative)
This is only true of certain very specific models. It's called something like "Tivo Basic". Most Series 2, DirectTV Tivo (aka DirecTivo) and all Series 3 and Tivo HD do not function in this way. Most Tivos will only support watching and pausing live TV without Tivo service.
Re:The security cam recording might be easy (Score:4, Informative)
My Series 2 Tivo can't. You need a dual tuner (DT) TiVo for that.
Re:Some possibilities (Score:5, Informative)
* Knoppix MythTV
http://www.mysettopbox.tv/ [mysettopbox.tv]
As the creator of KnoppMyth (now LinHES), I can tell you that KnoppMyth doesn't work on a TiVO (neither does LinHES).
Warm regards,
Cecil
Only one site for Tivo Series 1 hacks... (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=46
The drama queen (Score:3, Informative)
Sell it and be done with it.
Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab (Score:4, Informative)
It's about the guide data. Tivo would sell a DVR for $199 but charge $5 a month so you could dial into their server monthly to download the guide (and some value added TVGuide stuff.) They also sold identical hardware for $350 that had a lifetime subscription. You could simply alter a few bits on the non-lifetime DVR and re-sale it for a profit as having a lifetime sub. (past tense, since I have no idea what tivo has done in the last 2 years) TIVO did deserve the hack though. They sold lifetime subscriptions for $150. Even on hardware with a service plan, the hardware failed (even under warranty) they would replace the hardware and refuse to update to lifetime subscription unless you paid another $150. This pissed off a programmer so much he went on a mission to avoid paying twice, succeded and shared it with all.
Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab (Score:3, Informative)
Re: "cracking" / "ripping off" -- Typically it means buying the hardware at a discount and then modifying the software to use some sort of alternative TV Guide feed, instead of the TiVo paid subscription service.
At least some TiVos (I have one; it's actually a Toshiba/TiVo joint-branded thing, also a DVD player, which I bought 4 or so years ago) were sold w/ lifetime service (lifetime of the device, not the purchaser ;)), rather than subscription.
timothy
Re:Don't buy TIVO, or any other locked down device (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously, why do people buy a locked down piece of hardware, then wonder why they can't do anything that hasn't specifically been authorised with it? Your solution starts with not buying the damn product in the first place!!!
I my case, it's because I heard Tivo used Linux, and they allowed hackers. Turns out, that's only on the series 1 machines, and some early series 2's. I got a series 2.5.
This is the case with any business that want's to rent hardware to do a specific purpose. Tivo just decided to avoid the hassles of actually renting it, so they "sell" you a locked down box.
Anyway, no-one's mentioned it yet, but you can desolder the boot prom, and substitute one that has the checksums bypassed.
Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab (Score:4, Informative)
so why not have discount hardware and subscription _agreement_ for some defined period of time ?
the only reasin against this that i can imagine is some law preventing such agreement clauses that disallow customer to cancel subscription but keep the device.
Er, this is how cell phones work in the US. You get a phone at deep discounts or even free and sign a multi-year contract. You cancel early you pay through the nose in 'cancellation fees' and the phone is yours to keep. Or you complete the contract and the phone is yours to keep. Nothing illegal about this sort of arrangement.
However, people don't generally LIKE these contracts and we should hardly cry foul when a company gives you discount hardware without the lock-in, and tries to rely on things like 'good customer service' and 'quality product' to keep its customers.
Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab (Score:3, Informative)
If you're using a TiVo, as a TiVo, without paying TiVo, you're 'stealing'.
No, you're not. If you paid $ for a piece of hardware, that's your hardware. Perhaps you mean attempting to access TiVo's schedule/listing service with an unofficial client, or otherwise outside the terms of its contract. Alternate, platform-neutral and OSS-friendly listings services do exist, try http://www.schedulesdirect.org/ [schedulesdirect.org] .
Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab (Score:1, Informative)
I have never paid a dime directly to TiVo (though no doubt Toshiba paid some form of licensing fee), and use one of their their products 100% legitimately. I do note, however, that they appear to no longer offer their "basic" service, nor any "lifetime" terms...
I can tell you haven't looked at Tivo's web site in around two years, as they've been (and still are) offering "lifetime" service since one year after they introduced the very first Series 3.
Originally they reintroduced lifetime service only for pre-release Series 3 buyers who were willing to transfer their earlier lifetime service to the new unit. Then they continued the same offer beyond the release date. Then they expanded it to allow any existing subscribers to upgrade. Then new lifetime subscriptions were available to any subscribers, plus any "friends and family" by referral from any Tivo subscriber. Then they offered it to anyone. And that was about two years ago.
They still offer lifetime subscriptions today. Not that you'd know, you haven't checked within the last two years...
Tivo+broadcom=hard (Score:1, Informative)
Second, even if tivo doesnt have these checks, you may be able to get a kernel going, as pretty much every set top runs linux including the tivo's, but without the proprietary drivers to interface with every piece of the broadcom processors inside, its pretty damn useless to use one. These arent generic processors but more in the vein of microcontrollers with many separate functions in blocks inside the processor and without the drivers they are fairly useless as you cant really use them. That is unless you want to illegally dig up the docs which you wont have since you arent a paying customer to broadcom. Either way its going to be hard to build your own working software running on there without all this, and even with all the docs it is an insane amount of work for one person to try.
Of course this is all based on the tivo's running broadcom chips, the older ones I would have no clue on.
You can provide your own listings to a TIVO (Score:1, Informative)
Posting anonymously because I don't feel like getting flamed by the Tivo cultists.
I've done this; the info is out there if you look hard enough. OZTivo is a great source; there's a TIVO service emulator that consists of a few perl CGI scripts that sit on Apache; I have it in a file called "tivo-service-emu-djb.zip" so look for that.
Also, look for "wktivoguide-3.5.tar.gz" (http://minnie.tuhs.org/Programs/Wktivoguide/index.html) as a means to convert listings in a certain format to TIVO "slices", which are binary listings data files.
I wrote a perl script to convert the download XML program data from XMLTV to the format that wktivoguide wants, then ran the wktivoguide script to convert those to TIVO slices and copy them into the appropriate directory to be served by the Tivo service emulator on Apache.
It took a bit of research but I did figure it out and have been running this set of scripts for years. I just need to install a bunch of CPAN modules to satisfy dependencies when I move the setup from one machine to another, but it's no big deal. I run this stuff on a Mac using the provided copy of perl and Apache that comes with OS X, so there's really nothing special.
After getting the service emulator and listings pipeline working, you need to hack your Tivo to point it at your own Apache site; that's thoroughly documented on the web. Look at dealdatabase.com.
I got my tivo for free from a co-worker because its drive had died; I bought a Tivo OS installation CD and installed to a new drive, hacked it, and did the work described above. Would I have paid for Tivo listings? Probably not; it's been a lot more fun to have figured out what I did anyway.
Am I pirating listings? Well, I'm not stealing from Tivo - at worst I'm violating a EULA for the tivo software. I don't care. It's my box and I'll do as I please with it.
Happy hacking.