Easing the Job of Family Tech Support? 932
DarkDevil writes "Ever since I was introduced to computers at a very young age, I've been the resident tech support for a household of 7 users. I've been in a cycle for the last ~8 years where something happens to my parents' computer, I spend a week or two trying to non-destructively fix the problem (and try to explain to the users what caused it and how to avoid it), and then if it's not easily fixed I'll reformat and start from scratch. Most often, the level of infection warrants a reformat, which usually ends up taking even more time to get the computer back to how my parents know how to use it. 4-8 months later, it happens again. Recently, I found ~380 instances of malware and 6 viruses. I only realized something was wrong with their computer after it slowed down the entire network whenever anyone used it. My question for Slashdot is: are there any resources out there that explain computer viruses, malware, adware, and general safe computer practices to non-technical people in an easy-to-digest format? The security flaws in my house are 9, 26, and ~50 years old, with no technical background aside from surfing the internet. Something in video format would be ideal as they are perfectly happy with our current arrangement and so it'll be hard to get them reading pages and pages of technical papers."
here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:4, Insightful)
Install Ubuntu (Score:5, Insightful)
just install linux the next time you reformat (Score:1, Insightful)
Related question (Score:5, Insightful)
I keep sticking a knife into my eye every three months. Can anyone provide detail instructions on how I can do this without causing so much pain?
Sometimes giving an answer to the asked question isn't appropriate. Sometimes you have to tell the asker that they are looking at it all wrong.
Revoke admin rights. (Score:1, Insightful)
If you revoke their admin rights and keep their software (acrobat, flash, java, windows) patches up to date you will reduce your clean up burden. But it comes at the cost of a maintenance burden. Pick your poison.
Win (Score:1, Insightful)
1. Reformat Computers
2. Setup Restricted Accounts
3. Win
Correct User Access (Score:5, Insightful)
I've found the best thing is to treat them like a corporation. Make sure their accounts are only user level, and either hold on to the Administrator password or make sure they know the real reason to use it. Done that with a few family friends I do work for and the amount of trouble i've had has dropped drastically.
The butterfly Parable (Score:5, Insightful)
An insight into Mentoring & coaching
One day a man finds a cocoon for a butterfly with a small opening, he sits and watches the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole. Then it seemed to stop making any progress. It appeared stuck.
The man decided to help the butterfly and with a pair of scissors he cut open the cocoon. The butterfly emerges easily, but something was strange. The butterfly had a swollen body and shrivelled wings. The man watched the butterfly expecting it to take on its correct proportions. But nothing changed.
The butterfly stayed the same. It was never able to fly. In his kindness and haste the man did not realise that the butterfly's struggle to get through the small opening of the cocoon is nature's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight.
Like the sapling which grows strong from being buffeted by the wind, in life we all need to struggle sometimes to make us strong.
When we coach others it is helpful to recognize when people need to do things for themselves.
Only every 8 months? Lucky. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have systematically made all my family members get Macs over the years and this has reduced requirements for my support services to near to nothing. I have tried a few on Linux and that helped but they tended to be the most technically literate. Others who insisted that Windows was all they could use got XP with non-administrator accounts and I would remote desktop in as needed. That worked pretty well but not as well as a Mac and that person (my wife's 92 year old grandmother) is about to get a Mac mini.
I can't understand why you have people who only want to do basic tasks with anything other than an non-admin account? Even on a Mac I reserve the admin rights for myself.
You can't teach people who don't want to learn (Score:5, Insightful)
In my experience, it is not an issue of easy-to-digest material, and explanations that they understand. It's a hard mental block. I've been in the same cycle for 10+ years, and my parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn". I've tried written, step-by-step instructions; I've tried demonstrating; I've tried tutorials. It's not the information or how it is presented. It's a mental block about learning new things.
"Why can't it just work?", and the fact that it doesn't is put on my shoulders as the "tech" generation. And that's that.
What really gets me angry is that they are helpless to do anything in their daily lives without their computer, and blame me for that fact (Cause *I* created all malware and put it on their computer, clearly), while simultaneously ridiculing my choice of career as worthless, because "technology is not important". The irony is lost on them. Completely.
The war you are facing is a cultural one, not a technical, or information/communication one. It's one better asked to a psychologist than Slashdot. Best of luck.
Make them pay (Score:4, Insightful)
There is probably one major offender, and you could probably do some detective work to figure out who that person is if you tried.
I moved my relatives to Linux to free my weekends (Score:1, Insightful)
I was in exactly the same problem, compounded by the fact that some of my relatives were a long distance away. My weekends were spend "fixing the computers" of in-laws and relatives.
So finally, I announced that I will stop supporting Windows. I moved 3 households to Linux (Ubuntu) and gave each user several hours of instruction on email, pictures and browsing. One user decided to buy a Mac instead.
The request for support are now down to one every couple of months for something trivial, generally a forgotten password.
I have my weekends back.
Get a Mac (Score:5, Insightful)
I got my mom a iMac 5 years ago & have maybe spend a total of 7 hours working on it since then. Two of those were upgrading the RAM & two more were upgrading OSX.
I had never even touched OSX until we opened that iMac up. I had no problems setting it up & she has had no problems using or maintaining it.
Lock it down (Score:4, Insightful)
Using an operating system other than windows is a good idea also, but unrealistic that it will result in a better situation for the tech support family member. Your virus issues will be replaced with compatibility complaints. If the family doesn't want to learn how to avoid viruses they don't want to learn a new operating system.
Re:Install Ubuntu (Score:5, Insightful)
... and if it has to be Windows for some strange reason. Give them Limited User accounts. You'll be the sole Admin (and you won't use it yourself... just User for day to day tasks) and because of that you'll have to approve or disapprove all software that has to be installed.
I have this modus operandi with my family and it works very well. Technically, you have to see a family as a small business operation where you are the IT guy.
Re:Give Up (Score:3, Insightful)
The 9-year-old is the key (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like it's time to transition your support job to the next generation.
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:5, Insightful)
You know? It's pretty damned sad that OS stability and security has to be offered as a separate frickin' package to the OS itself.
Lessons learned from too many years in that role (Score:4, Insightful)
Their cost is a second hard drive that they pay for, typically this is well under $100. It's more work up front on this, but teaching them basic safe browsing, automating what they don't want to deal with and have an image (and the ability to freely blow away the boot drive) are all things that will save you time in spades in the long run. I've significantly reduced how often I have to perform the friends and family computer work this way, and they feel better knowing that they have regained some level of control over their computer.
Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn (Score:5, Insightful)
parents have said, flat out, they they "just can't learn".
Proper response: If you can't learn, I can't help. Sorry.
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Give Up (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Give Up (Score:3, Insightful)
If they cannot acknowledge this lack of trustworthiness, there is nothing you can do.
That's the key. ,when it took them that long to learn how to use the damn current one?
People will talk about locking down the computer, or making them use linux or a thin client, or whatever. But it is too late. Do you honestly think you can convince your parents to use a different system
My dad was smart and bought his mother something along the lines of a dumb terminal. It goes on the web, and checks email, and that is it (It might even be running linux!). But his case was easy, this was her first computer.
Really, the answer is: You're boned. If you have tried a few times to explain out to them why they shouldn't open the email that says "I Love You", your cause is lost. These aren't clients/employees, you can't tell them "well, sod off" and quit.
Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn (Score:3, Insightful)
PROTIP: If your girlfriend ridicules your career/life choice, she's not marriage material.
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:5, Insightful)
Same here. Please mod parent up. Its the damn truth!
Unsure what all the hating of Apple hardware is on /. lately.
Solid Unix based OS that your parents would never know about. Google developers use them.
It's actually not about being hip. It's about getting work done.
Re:Give Up (Score:5, Insightful)
My usual approach is in the form of an analogy.
"You're driving down the road, and you stop at a traffic light. A man, dressed like a mechanic, approaches your car and says 'I think your car has a problem. Please pop the hood, and let me do a free analysis." Do you let him?"
"You get a package in the mail. You don't recognize the return address. You open it, and inside is a device with a note that says 'want a good laugh? press this button'. Do you press it?"
"A stranger walks up to you on the bus, and says 'My name is Rev. Kwame. I want a reliable person who could assist us
to transfer the sum of Twenty Million Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollars ( $20,500,000 ) into his / her account.This fund resulted by way
of gratification from a contract awarded by us under the budget allocation to my Ministry and this bill has been approved for payment by
the concerned Ministries.' Do you give them your bank account number?"
Etc.
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:2, Insightful)
It's true, in spades. (Score:3, Insightful)
My mom switched to Mac. Result: I only have to really do something semi-serious (i.e. more than 30 mins work) once every 2 years. My (mentally handicapped!) brother uses a Mac. Aside from an occasional correction of his mail settings via ARD Admin I'm hassle-free.
My brother and his g/f still use Windows. I just spent four f***ing days reinstalling Windows XP because Vista figured Autocad was either already installed, couldn't be installed, or shouldn't be installed. I told them it was the last time and I would only support them if they bought Macs. Microsoft is a group of clueless arrogant monopolists as far as I'm concerned. Apple is also arrogant but at least they make something decent. Vista scared me into fits and out of family tech support for life unless they pay me $ 75,- an hour. That got their attention, I can tell you. After some "but what will we do then?" comments of disbelief I explained my motivations to them and told them the truth: Windows is a bloated platform with no vision designed by a company that is run more by lawyers than by true genius and I've given up on them completely. Sorry if this is a bit rantish (I suppose it is a rant) but I really want to underline it for you in simple terms: M$ is your problem.
I think Apple has several ups over Windows:
- it's designed to be learned by playing with it
- it gets out of your way instead of in your face
- it has a much, much, much clearer structure; people can find the things / settings they need more easily, and with less actions. Try setting up a dual monitor and occasionally attaching e.g. a beamer. It only costs 1 or 2 clicks after the 5 whole clicks you need to configure it the first time around. Try doing that in Windows and you're at least 20 clicks farther, and of course something or other b0rks along the way every f***ing time
- supporting it remotely is pretty much hassle-free aside from opening a port here and there (or else you could use something like Teamviewer)
- if you ever DO need to reinstall, the migration assistant will keep your settings whole, and you can drag/drop the software from the old installation; it's MUCH easier than reinstalling everything from scratch.
If you're in doubt, download it and stuff it into a VM and play with it. See how long it takes you to get mail etc set up. Now don't get me wrong - no OS is perfect, and OSX has its idiosyncrasies like any other - but it has a lot less of them, and any issues are usually fairly well documented. Just stay away from newest releases until the 10.x.1 update is out, at the least, and you will do fine.
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:5, Insightful)
"You're the shithead that broke it. You fix it, or you pay Best Buy to fix it, or you pay me to fix it. Those are your choices."
As you can tell, after ten years of this, I'm fed up with trying to support my idiot family.
I'm tired of giving-up my weekends doing what amounts to my fulltime job - for free.
Re:Correct User Access (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you give a brief overview of how to remove write access to particular parts of the registry on a per-user (or per-group) basis?
I'm typing this on Vista Business; XP Home and Vista Home Premium might not have these same features.
To lock down a part of the registry:
Group Policy is also a great tool - gpedit.msc is powerful. If you're running a gimped version (XP Home/Vista Home Premium) most of its options can be directly set in the registry with some Googling.
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You have the control, so use it! (Score:2, Insightful)
Have you considered making their system into a VM host?
This is exactly what I did with my son. I installed vmplayer, created a VM and locked everything down so that the only internet access that he has is via the VM. The one difference from the parent is that I do not back up and restore any files, that is his problem. When he screws up the current VM, I just remove it and drop in a copy of the original VM. I am done within a half hour. You should have seen my son's face the first time that he screwed up the VM. He could not believe that I just blew away the VM with all his data on it. He learned very quickly after that to keep backups of everything that he wants to keep.
Re:Give Up (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:5, Insightful)
Of the two options, I like the unbundled, doesn't bloat my OS further, option.
Get a Mac (Score:4, Insightful)
No I'm not trying to be smug. I simply refuse to maintain windows computers. Linux is not an option for most people. Ergo, a mac. Someday perhaps macs will be rife with trojans too. I'm not living in a dream where macs are perfect. But the very problem raised here is solved by a mac. So why fart around. Is your time worth nothing? if not these folks can cough up $599 for a mac mini. You don't have to use a mac, cause you are not the one with the problem. But they do.
Re:The butterfly Parable (Score:3, Insightful)
How is this "informative"? Unless you are a creationist or subscribe to the wholly un-scientific "intelligent design theory", there is no explanation other than evolution for a plant's having developed the remarkable ability to trigger a re-engineering of it's structure through a chemical feedback loop.
Re:Give Up (Score:5, Insightful)
Reasonable and useful analogies. However ...
"You're driving down the road, and you stop at a traffic light. A man, dressed like a mechanic, approaches your car and says 'I think your car has a problem. Please pop the hood, and let me do a free analysis." Do you let him?"
In a GUI centric world, the average user doesn't understand the source or meaning of error messages, warnings, or confirmation dialogs. They're just another window that pops up on what they believe to be an "appliance". It isn't the window they're interested in, and not knowing what to do with it, they just want it to go away.
"You get a package in the mail. You don't recognize the return address. You open it, and inside is a device with a note that says 'want a good laugh? press this button'. Do you press it?"
A package in the mail has all it's shipping information clearly printed on the outside. With email, the information is in the headers, most all of which are routinely hidden (what is visible is often useless or suspect). The average user has no idea headers exist, and will reject any prodding that they learn how to read them, replying that they clutter up their screen (like viewing file extensions).
Moreover, they certainly don't want to know about MIME structures. Attachments? If it's like a package in the mail, how to know what it is if you don't open it?
"A stranger walks up to you on the bus, and says 'My name is Rev. Kwame. I want a reliable person who could assist us to transfer the sum of ... Do you give them your bank account number?"
An example that's more "real world" to the average user. Regrettably, in the real world, people (especially older folks) do fall prey to scams or otherwise obvious fraud.
Stop "helping"! (Score:3, Insightful)
For 8 years they have relied upon you to solve their issues and apparently not learned anything! they are "non-technical" but have been using computers this entire time? I'm sorry but after that many years of using the damned thing if they haven't learned anything it's because you're always there to help them - stop helping. The excuse that they're non-technical doesn't fly after that length of time IMO. If they are so disinterested in the device but rely on it so heavily then there's a serious disconnect.
They aren't learning anything because they don't have to. If you always had someone to wipe your ass you probably would never have learned but somewhere along the way your parents decided it was time you did it yourself and TaDah YOU learned. Think of it as AA for computers - they have to hit rock bottom before they will get off their butts and bother to learn anything. A once in awhile help session is one thing but not to the extent that has been laid out here. Do they even bother to sit and watch while you fix their stuff? Or do they get to go off and do other things all the while whining that they want their computer fixed? Make them feel pain, make them sit and watch silently if you work on the computer for them and answer questions if you want. You're being taken advantage of and it;s not helping anyone except maybe you a little as you find out ever more innovative ways to solve their issues.
Here's another thought - stop trying to fix their computer. Simply reformat the thing, patch it, and walk away. Let them have to go through the pain of fixing it up the way they like it - maybe with some ramifications they will begin to get a clue and understand the cause\effect that's going on here....
Re:The last time I had this problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait... so, you installed Ubuntu for someone and left them to use it with no discussion. It would appear that you never let him see it boot before handing it over, and never discussed the differences. And, as you say, he refused to use it.
I assume this level of casual computer fixing is reserved for family members, yet you say he took you to court. If your family are taking you to court, I think you have other things to worry about than the computers. If he wasn't a family member, why the hell were you fixing it for free and/or not discussing/explaining the solution?
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason it's like that is because developers are too lazy to test with a regular user account.
Re:The butterfly Parable (Score:3, Insightful)
It has nothing to do with evolution. Plant tissues that experience pressures (say from bending in the wind) release hormones that make the tissue stronger, to better withstand that pressure.
Well, it has something to do with evolution. Plants that can create and use this hormone would tend to more often live to maturity, compared to competing plants lacking it. That would make them more likely to produce offspring.
Re:Oblig. XKCD (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like you both enjoy poking fun at each other and bickering about inconsequential things. Assuming this doesn't rise to the level of genuine arguments (like couch guy below) I say it sounds like a normal and healthy relationship. Just thought you might appreciate the thought after all the other comments soon to follow.
(5 year wedding anniversary 2 weeks ago, goin' on 9 years together, bicker like it's been 80)
Re:here's where we get to hear someone spew (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, we will hear that... BECAUSE IT'S TRUE. Not ONE serious widespread virus in the wild IN THE EIGHT+ YEAR HISTORY of the operating system. The only reason I have to qualify that statement AT ALL is because yes, there are a couple trojans. But NOTHING like Windows. There are NOT a million drive-by downloads, self-spreading worms, or a bunch of malware-infested crappy freeware apps like Windows has.
Is it because it's a better OS? Smaller market share? Lazy virus writers that's can't be bothered to learn to use XCode? WHO CARES!!! The fact is it's NOT a problem right now. Maybe it will be someday. I'll worry about it then. In the meantime, I'm enjoying my near-DECADE of peaceful, pleasant, safe computing.* If you can afford it, it's a great way to go.
Note: Linux is also very good in this regard. But the parent was talking about Macs.
* I, along with plenty of other readers here, can, and have, used Windows boxes without viruses for years. But this thread isn't about what's POSSIBLE for someone who is smart and cares--it's about what DOES HAPPEN to users who AREN'T and DON'T.
Re:Give Up (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't listen to those who tell you to give up or make it unpleasant for family to turn to you for help. If you are at least a halfway decent person, chances are you got that way because your parents didn't give up on you when you needed help and education. Time to pay back the favor. I'd guess that re-educating them on computer use may help things, but will not fix them. My suggestions:
Be prepared.
When re-imaging a system:
Doing all that will take a lot of time, but can mostly run without a babysitter.
If their computer has enough power to make it worthwhile, you could also set up a VM machine for them to run in. Start with a known-good OS image, create a VM from it, clone the VM, and let them run the clone. Erase the clone when it gets buggy, re-clone the original, patch it, and off they go again.
(1) - There are a number of different ways to do backups with little or no further hardware investment. If there is a network available with more than one computer attached, I might load one system with cheap disk and back up to that. Otherwise, I'd get an external drive with a USB connection and dump my backups to that as needed. Or you can get a USB key and back up to that, although that won't give you much room for incremental backups. Or back up to DVD+R, although restoring from DVD might not be convenient on a system with only 1 CD/DVD drive if you are running from a live cd.
Re:Make them pay (Score:3, Insightful)
There's "helping", and then there's enabling. For example, I need to deal with a reformat/re-install about once a year for my mother. No biggy: she does pretty well, but just can't keep up with new threats, and simply isn't perfect. That's what family is for.
On the other hand, I refuse to help one of my cousins anymore, because he refused to follow my basic advice on being safe - he insists on using IE and Outlook Express, he disables his AV to "make installs go faster", he declines AV updates, he refuses to run without admin rights, etc.. If I keep bailing him out for free, I'm not helping anymore.
See, you can't eat your cake and still have it. If you really value me as family, you'll respect my skills and my advice, and you'll show it by trying to make it as unnecessary as possible for me to have to help you. If you refuse to do anything to make my life easier, you show that you don't respect my skills, so why should I waste them on you?
Re:You can't teach people who don't want to learn (Score:1, Insightful)
PROTIP: If your girlfriend ridicules your career/life choice, she's not marriage material.
And vice versa.
And I'm linux! (Score:1, Insightful)
Get a mac or install linux. Staying with Windows? You might want to see what Einstein said about people who do the same thing over and over and expect different results.
In your situation, a mac will pay for itself. If they don't want to learn to use linux, tell them to get a mac and be done with it.
Sure, they'll have to learn how to do a few things differently ... but they're obviously going to have to anyway, so have them bite the bullet one way or another and be done with it.
If you don't, or don't stand firm, you have only yourself to blame next time you waste a weekend.
Re:The last time I had this problem... (Score:1, Insightful)
I gotta side with the old man on this one. While I do think the law suit is much, it seems like you installed Ubuntu w/o his consultation. In that case, you're definitely in the wrong.
Some people think differently then the way you think. Especially with older people, they don't see the UI affordances. If you watch them take notes on using Windows, it'll always start with "Click on the Start Button". Ubuntu was something he wasn't use to, and therefore he couldn't do what he wanted.
Re:Give Up (Score:4, Insightful)
True, but 9 times out of ten, it is easier and faster to change the OS than the human's behavior.
Re:Give Up (Score:3, Insightful)
Congratulations! You are the first person in the history of Slashdot to type "MAC" and not mean it as a borderline-illiterate abbreviation for "Macintosh". Excellent work.
Re:MS SteadyState (Score:2, Insightful)
My Ubuntu experience:
My best friend of 20 years is a linux/unix sysadmin and in his spare time sets up clusters with petabyte storage for universities, oil companies, physics labs, etc. He is a Linux zealot (lovably so, not the annoying kind) and has performed many OS conversions with friends and neighbors. So I buy a new windows vista box a year and a half a go and he says, "Lets dual boot it with Ubuntu!" To which I respond, "Great! I'll buy beer and pizza, you come over and set it up while I watch." I was genuinely excited about the prospect. I had heard Ubuntu was not only simple to install but also to use so I was definitely game.
The result? After three plus hours of unsucessfully plumbing the depths of the web for working wireless drivers, I released him from his obligation and we all get drunk. Later, I blow the partition off the drive and mentally assign Ubuntu and Linux in general to the "failed experiments" category.
Maybe the driver situation has improved, but just watching the lenghts that he had to go to made me realize that even the "easiest of all Linux OS systems" can still be a giant pain in the ass.
It isn't a favor unless someone asks for it. (Score:3, Insightful)
I installed Ubuntu to head off a lot of these problem but he refused to use it.
It doesn't matter if it's friend, family or client.
It doesn't matter if your are working for a cold beer and a plate of pretzels or charging twice the going rate for your "professional services."
You never make fundamental changes without asking.
Without informed consent.
If I ask you to secure and return my Windows system -
I expect you to secure and return my Windows system - not to replace it with whatever Linux distro and Open Source apps that suit your fancy.
"What part of "No" didn't you understand?" That is as sound a way for a judge to approach a suit for breach of contract as it is when he considers a charge of rape.
Re:Give Up (Score:3, Insightful)
I actually have to agree, although I'd argue part the issue is that the person asking the question doesn't have a massively high level of technical competence if it takes them so long to solve these sorts of problem which compounds the issue.
I had the same problem with my Dad, and although it didn't take long to fix each time, it was annoying because having spent all day fixing stupid IT problems back then at work, the last thing I wanted to do when I got home was exactly the same thing.
The real solution is summed up in the parents title "Give up". I told him that it was the last time I'm going to fix it and he'd have to take it to PC World who'd charge him probably £50 or more if he wanted it done after that. I explained every time that he was getting the problems because he was clicking stupid things or opening attachments he wasn't expecting or giving his e-mail address out to any web form that asked, yet only when under threat of having to pay to get the problem fixed did this actually sink in with him, because since then, he's never had a piece of Malware again.
The more you help these people, the less reason they have to pay attention and not be stupid. Force them to think for themselves or they'll simply never bother to and you'll be stuck supporting them forever.
Keep a replacement on hand! (Score:2, Insightful)