Linus Torvalds For Nobel Peace Prize? 541
An anonymous reader writes "I'm as much of a Linux fanboy as anyone else, but I've never thought of anything in computing as being worth a Nobel Peace Prize. Apparently, there are those who take global collaboration seriously, though..." The suggestion has been bouncing around the Portland Linux community, where Torvalds lives. Is it worthy of wider attention and discussion?
List his peace initiatives... (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps we could better decide if we saw a list of Linus' global peace initiatives...
Gregor
Linux Peace Prize? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:List his peace initiatives... (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets see Obama's as well...
Not a Campaigned Award (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it worthy of wider attention and discussion?
Why do you talk about it? Find someone in this list:
University rectors; professors of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology; directors of peace research institutes and foreign policy institutes;
Willing to Submit him for it [nobelprize.org] and go back to coding. Don't go campaigning for some person to win the Nobel peace prize, call up your contacts at Washington University and discuss it with them. If you can't convince them to nominate him, it's probably not going to work.
This is not an elected award so I wouldn't waste my time trying to impose outside influence on a committee for a Nobel prize. The committee decides, not the community. I'm sure every profession has their savior/icon that they think deserves this award for revolutionizing something and altering humanity for the better. You're free to talk all you want but it's not going to change anything. Discussing it online is nothing but a waste of time unless your intentions are to embarrass Linus.
Yes! (Score:2, Insightful)
You know...why not? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've always been interested in seeing how computers get used in the far-flung parts of the world, and between OLPC and websites showing off pics of tribemen using Linux on laptops to check prices, weather info, etc., it would seem that Linux has made a difference both in the "developed" world as well as the places where computers may not be as prevalent.
Certainly it stands to reason that not everyone needs access to email, say, but everyone would like to know whether it's going to rain tomorrow, and there may not be a local radio or tv station to provide that info, but a computer with some sort of internet access could. So if I'm only going to use a computer once in a blue moon, or if I'm one who provides computers to folks who only need an extremely limited data set, why not be Linux? It's totally dependable and, most importantly, it's free. This is critical when the local economy may rely more on bartering and the exchange of physical goods for services; I can't imagine Microsoft would be willing to sell Windows for a few dozen eggs.
So yes, I'd be behind such an honor; the whole point of the Nobel Peace prize is to award people who have made other lives better, and providing the platform on which anyone, anywhere can build upon to provide anything, at the most local level, I can't see how this *doesn't* qualify.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe not the Peace Prize, but I can see him getting the Economic Prize for Linux's economic impact on the business world & Internet.
Richard M. Stallman is doing the real work (Score:4, Insightful)
Stallman's working for social justice, freedom and equality. He gets chosen less often as a posterboy, but he's the one doing the really important work.
Linus is only popular because his style is convenient for IBM and the other megacorps. He goes with the flow, let's those with power do what they want.
Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not? I mean, sure Torvalds isn't exactly a Ghandi (who ironically never got one, IIRC)...
Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:2, Insightful)
I think it's not going to happen either, but it's interesting to think that if somebody managed to pull off a successful large scale OLPC-type venture involving Linux, it would be him or her to be considered for the prize. The truth is, the world is a lot better with Linux, even though the people who could really do with using it generally aren't. Apart from the fact that it allows so much to be kept from the corporate stranglehold, Linux is really the driving force behind the open source movement, which is a very real and significant thing. Who would have thought ten years ago that CodePlex was to come?
There should be more recognition for the people that are "behind the scenes" - the people without whom we couldn't have the big, headline-catching, landmark events that showmen get all the credit for. I think that's what is the desire in the article for someone who's not a politician getting the prize, although the argument wasn't terribly well formed.
One reason that so many of us are initially (or permanently) dismissive of the notion is that it's so hard to gauge what Linus has done for the world. How can we really know what the world would be like without Linux? Would *BSD or HURD get the development attention to bring them to Linux's standard (apologies to fans of these OS's)? Personally, I believe that Linux is quite strongly responsible for the quality of these and Haiku and all the rest of the OS OS's in use now. Linux has been a strong driving force because of the philosophy, and vitally, because of Linus Torvalds.
Don't use past recipients' unworthiness as reason to give it to him: Linus is worthy regardless.
Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why Insult him with that? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Well he's at least done more than Obama (Score:4, Insightful)
Not starting a nuclear war with Iran is technically doing nothing, but I still think it's a very, very good idea.
George W. Bush didn't start a nuclear war with Iran and he didn't get a Nobel Peace Prize.
Also, keep in mind that Obama has a few more years in which he could start a nuclear war with Iran.
Re:List his peace initiatives... (Score:3, Insightful)
Nobel laureate would certainly be a good way to reward a man who has done something far more extraordinary than anything BillG or the Steve's ever did - without the benefit of a corporation (note MS needed IBM to be where it is) or a formal product (the Steve's SOLD hardware) and created a world-class operating system.
Not only that, he is still there, still writing code, corralling the cats and making progress in developing, instead of just cashing in.
This is in my not so humble opinion the ultimate leadership by example - and it can and has been applied to thousands of other projects. Richard Stallman may have "invented" open source - Linus made it real for everyone, from greedy businessman to naive undergraduate CS student.
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
I tend to agree, though I wouldn't discount Linus that much. He wrote the first versions of the kernel and has been its guiding force ever since, so it's not just a matter of being some random guy in an age long gone. Still, the whole movement in which Linux blossomed was by and large Stallman's creation and initiative, and even though he's a bit loopy and can be a major prick, if anyone deserves it, it's Stallman.
Re:He deserves it (Score:4, Insightful)
No (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:List his peace initiatives... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:4, Insightful)
First off, Linus didn't do anything but release some code out to the wild. What happened happened because of others, most of whom you'll never know the name of. Linus didn't do anything except keep hacking away at his tool.
Secondly, the GNU Project [wikipedia.org] would most likely like to have a word with you. Founded (not by Linus) in 1983. Created most of an OS using a distributed development model (sound familiar) and was at the point that all Linus had to do was put a kernel under it in 1991. The Free Software community you attribute to Linus already existed. Linus used the fruits of their labor. The BSD project also already existed and if it weren't for a lawsuit from AT&T, you probably never would have heard of Linus Torvalds or Linux.
FOSS is *much* larger then just Linux, and was around before it existed.
Re:Why not? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:5, Insightful)
It is given specifically for improving relations between nations, reducing standing armies, and promoting peace congresses.
That sounds really nice, but doesn't explain Al Gore receiving it. Even if you totally buy into global warming hysteria it still doesn't work. It also doesn't, if you are going to be honest, explain President Obama, who despite all the hype, has never accomplished anything of substance, leave alone improving international relations or anything promoting peace.
The truth is that Nobel Peace Prize is given by 5 guys in Norway to whomever the hell they want for whatever damn reason they want. Lately, that reason has amounted to little more than "Not being George W. Bush". Now, to a lot of people, "Not being George W. Bush" is a laudable accomplishment, but the Nobel Committee cannot pretend they are anything other than another bully pulpit for promoting their preferred flavor of politics.
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
If anyone, it should be Stallman, for writing the GPL, for starting the free software movement and spreading knowlege of the existence of free software and for explicitly backing a public cause, and basically dedicating his life to it. In comparison, Torvalds is just an above average software engineer/project manager, who doesn't care about the public good so much as writing good code and getting the credit.
That is the point. Stallman founded a religion, and Torvalds gave us a tool. Yes, you needed the religion first, but a lot more people were willing to work on the tool. That was the real tipping point for FOSS.
I would proudly vote for RMS (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd hate to see the guy who calls his co-opetition "masturbating monkeys" get a peace prize. :)
That aside, I firmly believe that the GPL is the reason for the success of the Linux kernel and of GNU/Linux. Compare the success of Linux and GNU/Linux to other systems which are more stable and have better documentation (like OpenBSD). There are many reasons why this might be, but I think that there would have been far fewer contributions to the Linux kernel if its license did not provide equal access for all contributors. A substantial part of Linux was written by commercial entities who would undoubtedly not be willing to invest in a product which their competition could build upon without contributing likewise in return.
We all owe a tremendous debt to RMS that I doubt will ever be repaid.
Re:He deserves it (Stallman) (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:List his peace initiatives... (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed, but not a Nobel *Peace* Prize...
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that without Linus I have a feeling that Linux would now be where Hurd is. Sometimes the people who have the best ideas are not necessarily the best people to implement them.
Is there any reason they can't just give it to both of them?
Re:Can we stop with the Obama comparisons? (Score:3, Insightful)
What about giving the prize to someone who has the power to withdrawal troops, but continues the wars? Get this: someone who is actively perpetuating a war gets a peace prize...
Re:Torvalds ... peaceful? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why not? (Score:1, Insightful)
the nobel peace prize should be discontinued (Score:4, Insightful)
the nobel peace prize has entered the realm of farce (arafat, kissinger, and obama for smiling nicely) and has destroyed its legitimacy
of course, maybe the whole idea was doomed from the start as a flawed idea
perhaps the prize should be reconstituted as a way to recognize truly deserving underappreciated efforts, such as microlending in poor areas or water purification projects. in other words: no matinee idols or celebrities need apply. this would rule out deserving celebrities like nelson mandela, but it would also rule out the likes of kissinger and arafat. no more stunt prizes like obama's
a prize only for the truly anonymous makes a heck of a lot more sense actually in the realm of what it really means to labor for peace selflessly, which is true peacemaking anyways
so if not discontinued, the prize should be reconsituted with strict guidelines as a prize for the truly anonymous
Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh please. If it was up to GNU we'd still be waiting for Herd and the concept of a viable Free operating system would still be considered impossible. And without MIT's X-Windows system, BSD's sockets system, others' file system(s), etc, etc, you wouldn't have a viable operating system. Certainly GNU was a major contributor to Linux, but their contribution joins many others to make Linux what it is today. And it was really through Torvalds' guidance and systems engineering, not Stallman's or GNU's, that the operating system came together and became something great.
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
That is the point. Stallman founded a religion, and Torvalds gave us a tool.
Really? Maybe you aren't aware of the tools Stallman wrote? Stallman wrote the first versions of gcc, gdb, emacs, etc.
So if you still want to oversimplify it, this is more accurate: Stallman created tools and created open source. Torvalds created a tool.
Re:Why not? (Score:3, Insightful)
He's a great speaker when he's reading sentences that someone else wrote. Listening to him speak without a teleprompter aren't nearly as impressive.
That still puts him ahead of the last president, who couldn't seem to talk with or without technological assistance.
Re:Why not? (Score:3, Insightful)
...at the expense of solid relationships with our long-term allies [spectator.co.uk]. Considering with whom our interests as a country more closely align, do you think this is a good trade? I don't. I think he has a particularly deep hate for the Brits out of some misplaced loyalty to the Kenyan baby-daddy who spawned him, but he's giving the rest of our allies the finger to varying degrees as well.
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
No. It was Stallman who gave us the tool; the GPL. This licence is the magic ingredient that makes open source software possible. Without it, without Stallman's contribution, we'd still be stuck with mostly BSD style licences. Private companies would be mooching off and appropriating the work of FOSS programmers, people would be cynical about writing software for nothing, and we wouldn't have a fraction of the fantastic array of software we all have running on our desktops, including the Linux kernel.
We'd all be paying $500 per operating system, and our program suites would mostly consist of massively duplicated pay to use, single function programs or else expensively licensed monolithic program suites like MS Office. Programs provided by private companies with lots of scope to monopolise, little incentive to innovate, and with general contempt for their users. Ask yourself, how would you encode a CD in windows, how would you compile a program, what email client would you use if you couldn't use open source software?
This is what Richard Stallman rescued us from. Restrictive, expensive, bug ridden and often vindictive closed source software. Perhaps you do not like stances. That's fine. But you had best acknowledge that the reason you have a modern web browser to read this site with is largely down to the efforts he made probably before you were even born.
Re:He deserves it (Stallman) (Score:5, Insightful)
My thoughts exactly. I once saw Stallman talking about what he envisions for GPL and freedom of software in the future, and it really looks like he's aiming at a more collaborative and free society. Not only that, but he has taken positive and large steps in getting there, by turning copyright against itself and actively advocating free software and its benefits.
Genius indeed.
I see it as unfortunate that he doesn't get the recognition he deserves. If he were more "accepted", his ideas would probably have an even stronger impact.
How about the Turing award instead? (Score:2, Insightful)
It [acm.org] is given to an individual selected for contributions of a technical nature made to the computing community. The contributions should be of lasting and major technical importance to the computer field.
It isn't as famous as a Peace Prize, but it does recognize real accomplishment.
Re:He deserves it (Stallman) (Score:3, Insightful)
I see it as unfortunate that he doesn't get the recognition he deserves. If he were more "accepted", his ideas would probably have an even stronger impact.
A shave and a shower wouldn't hurt in this regard.
Re:What are you talking about? (Score:2, Insightful)
Most of these prizes are political anyway. Reagan, Thatcher, and Gorbachev should have won the prize for ending the Cold War in a peaceful way, but since the committee that makes the decision is mostly made of socialist nut jobs they were ignored.
As always, this is just my $0.02 worth.
Re:Bill Gates (Score:1, Insightful)
Computers would have become popular without Windows. All we have Gates to thank for is how well he can market a buggy, incompatible, rarely-updated OS.
Re:He deserves it (Score:3, Insightful)
Can you compile a Linux kernel without gcc?
Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not knocking Linus Torvalds' achievements, but I don't see the connection here.
Stallman set out with a vision and objectives (freedom of expression) that are consistent with the merits associated with the Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not sure Linus' motivations were ever more than an itch to scratch to satisfy his own needs (the lack of a suitably available kernel). He has stated that if either the GNU or 386BSD kernels were available at the time, he likely would not have written his own. It just snowballed from there and he was a better project manager than Stallman in making it happen. The success of Linux may largely be attributed to Linus' technical skills as well as his dictatorial style, which may effective in managing a largely distributed open source project, but is hardly representative of the traits and merits of the Nobel Peace Prize.
Re:He deserves it (Score:2, Insightful)
Personally, I respect Stallman's philosophical approach to the whole thing way more than Linus' business approach.
I am very sorry to shit on your ego but I doubt you will feel the same when you are a real grown up and actually pay your own way through life.
Are you actually a business person? What is your specialty? If mummy and daddy go broke could your business survive?