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Comments: 541 +- Ask Slashdot: Linus Torvalds For Nobel Peace Prize? on Friday November 20, @11:36AM
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kdawson
on Friday November 20, @11:36AM
from the nice-step-towards-world-domination dept.
from the nice-step-towards-world-domination dept.
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An anonymous reader writes "I'm as much of a Linux fanboy as anyone else, but I've never thought of anything in computing as being worth a Nobel Peace Prize. Apparently, there are those who take global collaboration seriously, though..." The suggestion has been bouncing around the Portland Linux community, where Torvalds lives. Is it worthy of wider attention and discussion?
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Submission: Linus Torvalds suggested for Nobel Peace Prize by Anonymous Coward
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He deserves it (Score:5, Funny)
I come from 2051, in a timeline where Linux didn't exist. You don't want to hear about the Microsoft vs Apple netwar.
Re:He deserves it (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, it was terrible, all those Windows machines loaded with malware, all trying and failing to attack anything non-Microsoft, until Apple ended it by buying what was left of Microsoft in 2018 in an all-stock deal of 100 Microsoft shares for 1 Apple share, plus the lint in Steve Jobs' bellybutton.
Now people's Windows machines work perfectly. Microsoft Windows - a product of Apple, Inc.
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Re:He deserves it (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:He deserves it (Score:4, Informative)
Number 4 according to Squaretrade, a company that sells warranties on computers and is a direct competitor to Apple's Applecare.
Just saying.
fwiw, Consumer Reports consistently ranks Apple at the top or near the top in satisfaction, reliability, and tech support. I can't draw any overall conclusions of my own since most laptop failures I have seen among my friends (covering the gamut of manufacturers) have been a result of physical abuse. otoh a laptop's ability to take abuse without breaking is a big selling point for me.
-b
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Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Funny)
Now people's Windows machines work perfectly. Microsoft Windows - a product of Apple, Inc.
...but they now cost 1000x more than they should and they only do what robot warlord Steve Jobs thinks you should be able to do.
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Re:Apple and Parallels Desktop (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
I tend to agree, though I wouldn't discount Linus that much. He wrote the first versions of the kernel and has been its guiding force ever since, so it's not just a matter of being some random guy in an age long gone. Still, the whole movement in which Linux blossomed was by and large Stallman's creation and initiative, and even though he's a bit loopy and can be a major prick, if anyone deserves it, it's Stallman.
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Re:He deserves it (Stallman) (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:He deserves it (Stallman) (Score:5, Insightful)
My thoughts exactly. I once saw Stallman talking about what he envisions for GPL and freedom of software in the future, and it really looks like he's aiming at a more collaborative and free society. Not only that, but he has taken positive and large steps in getting there, by turning copyright against itself and actively advocating free software and its benefits.
Genius indeed.
I see it as unfortunate that he doesn't get the recognition he deserves. If he were more "accepted", his ideas would probably have an even stronger impact.
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Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that without Linus I have a feeling that Linux would now be where Hurd is. Sometimes the people who have the best ideas are not necessarily the best people to implement them.
Is there any reason they can't just give it to both of them?
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Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not knocking Linus Torvalds' achievements, but I don't see the connection here.
Stallman set out with a vision and objectives (freedom of expression) that are consistent with the merits associated with the Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not sure Linus' motivations were ever more than an itch to scratch to satisfy his own needs (the lack of a suitably available kernel). He has stated that if either the GNU or 386BSD kernels were available at the time, he likely would not have written his own. It just snowballed from there and he was a better project manager than Stallman in making it happen. The success of Linux may largely be attributed to Linus' technical skills as well as his dictatorial style, which may effective in managing a largely distributed open source project, but is hardly representative of the traits and merits of the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
If anyone, it should be Stallman, for writing the GPL, for starting the free software movement and spreading knowlege of the existence of free software and for explicitly backing a public cause, and basically dedicating his life to it. In comparison, Torvalds is just an above average software engineer/project manager, who doesn't care about the public good so much as writing good code and getting the credit.
That is the point. Stallman founded a religion, and Torvalds gave us a tool. Yes, you needed the religion first, but a lot more people were willing to work on the tool. That was the real tipping point for FOSS.
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Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
That is the point. Stallman founded a religion, and Torvalds gave us a tool.
Really? Maybe you aren't aware of the tools Stallman wrote? Stallman wrote the first versions of gcc, gdb, emacs, etc.
So if you still want to oversimplify it, this is more accurate: Stallman created tools and created open source. Torvalds created a tool.
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Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Insightful)
No. It was Stallman who gave us the tool; the GPL. This licence is the magic ingredient that makes open source software possible. Without it, without Stallman's contribution, we'd still be stuck with mostly BSD style licences. Private companies would be mooching off and appropriating the work of FOSS programmers, people would be cynical about writing software for nothing, and we wouldn't have a fraction of the fantastic array of software we all have running on our desktops, including the Linux kernel.
We'd all be paying $500 per operating system, and our program suites would mostly consist of massively duplicated pay to use, single function programs or else expensively licensed monolithic program suites like MS Office. Programs provided by private companies with lots of scope to monopolise, little incentive to innovate, and with general contempt for their users. Ask yourself, how would you encode a CD in windows, how would you compile a program, what email client would you use if you couldn't use open source software?
This is what Richard Stallman rescued us from. Restrictive, expensive, bug ridden and often vindictive closed source software. Perhaps you do not like stances. That's fine. But you had best acknowledge that the reason you have a modern web browser to read this site with is largely down to the efforts he made probably before you were even born.
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Re:He deserves it (Score:5, Informative)
You are right (which I have to say, otherwise you will try to continue being argumentative) that the other developers deserve credit, too. Of course they do. RMS couldn't have done it alone. But there is a reason RMS is well recognized.
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Why not? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why not? (Score:4, Interesting)
He actually has put something tangible together, and overseen it for years, as opposed to someone nominated recently before he had even done anything.
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Re:Why not? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Why not? (Score:5, Interesting)
I was hoping somebody would point that out. I'd just say that, if you can get an award for things that you're *going* to do, Linus should start telling people that he's going to work hard for world peace in version 3.8 of the kernel. It'd be a no-brainer!
For that matter...I'm working on version 6.0 of the linux kernel, which will not only end hunger, but make fusion-based power a reality and cure cancer. Who's gonna nominate me?
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Linux Peace Prize? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not? I mean, sure Torvalds isn't exactly a Ghandi (who ironically never got one, IIRC)...
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Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:5, Informative)
"(okay, Carter brokered the Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement back in the 1970's which later fell apart, and did a lot of post-presidential negotiation work, but really..."
Look, I loathe Carter as much as the next gut, but at least get your facts straight. Carter won the prize for brokering the Egypt/Israeli peace agreement which, last I checked, still holds. That puts him pretty high on the list of people who have done something to further peace in the world, and he deserved the prize.
Now, if he had only spent more time and attention on the US, maybe his presidency wouldn't be viewed as a total failure.
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Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe not the Peace Prize, but I can see him getting the Economic Prize for Linux's economic impact on the business world & Internet.
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Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:4, Insightful)
First off, Linus didn't do anything but release some code out to the wild. What happened happened because of others, most of whom you'll never know the name of. Linus didn't do anything except keep hacking away at his tool.
Secondly, the GNU Project [wikipedia.org] would most likely like to have a word with you. Founded (not by Linus) in 1983. Created most of an OS using a distributed development model (sound familiar) and was at the point that all Linus had to do was put a kernel under it in 1991. The Free Software community you attribute to Linus already existed. Linus used the fruits of their labor. The BSD project also already existed and if it weren't for a lawsuit from AT&T, you probably never would have heard of Linus Torvalds or Linux.
FOSS is *much* larger then just Linux, and was around before it existed.
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Re:Linux Peace Prize? (Score:5, Insightful)
It is given specifically for improving relations between nations, reducing standing armies, and promoting peace congresses.
That sounds really nice, but doesn't explain Al Gore receiving it. Even if you totally buy into global warming hysteria it still doesn't work. It also doesn't, if you are going to be honest, explain President Obama, who despite all the hype, has never accomplished anything of substance, leave alone improving international relations or anything promoting peace.
The truth is that Nobel Peace Prize is given by 5 guys in Norway to whomever the hell they want for whatever damn reason they want. Lately, that reason has amounted to little more than "Not being George W. Bush". Now, to a lot of people, "Not being George W. Bush" is a laudable accomplishment, but the Nobel Committee cannot pretend they are anything other than another bully pulpit for promoting their preferred flavor of politics.
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Well... (Score:5, Funny)
I can't say he is less worthy than Obama. Obama's biggest claim to fame is that he is not George Bush. Linus isn't George Bush either, so I guess his qualifications are in order.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Linus has though, fueled many thousands of flame-wars with his product.
Obama just fuels just one Afgan war.
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You know...why not? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've always been interested in seeing how computers get used in the far-flung parts of the world, and between OLPC and websites showing off pics of tribemen using Linux on laptops to check prices, weather info, etc., it would seem that Linux has made a difference both in the "developed" world as well as the places where computers may not be as prevalent.
Certainly it stands to reason that not everyone needs access to email, say, but everyone would like to know whether it's going to rain tomorrow, and there may not be a local radio or tv station to provide that info, but a computer with some sort of internet access could. So if I'm only going to use a computer once in a blue moon, or if I'm one who provides computers to folks who only need an extremely limited data set, why not be Linux? It's totally dependable and, most importantly, it's free. This is critical when the local economy may rely more on bartering and the exchange of physical goods for services; I can't imagine Microsoft would be willing to sell Windows for a few dozen eggs.
So yes, I'd be behind such an honor; the whole point of the Nobel Peace prize is to award people who have made other lives better, and providing the platform on which anyone, anywhere can build upon to provide anything, at the most local level, I can't see how this *doesn't* qualify.
Proof that Linux does NOT promote peace... (Score:5, Funny)
run away! run away!
Re:Proof that Linux does NOT promote peace... (Score:5, Funny)
No, Ubuntu is Debian de-gimped. Pay attention.
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Bill Gates (Score:5, Interesting)
His philanthropy is unparalleled (by monetory value alone, anyway). His influence on the world of computing is undisputed. I'm not saying his influence has been good or bad... just that he's had influence. The world wouldn't be the same without Windows. Regardless of which operating system you favour (for me, it's a tie between OSX and Ubuntu), you cannot deny that Windows has been an important component in the spread of information and education across the world, and enabled all kinds of communication.
A lot of this stuff would have happened anyway, without Windows... but then I could argue that the US civil rights movement would have happened at some point without Martin Luther King (a previous Nobel Peace Prize winner).
No (Score:4, Insightful)
I would proudly vote for RMS (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd hate to see the guy who calls his co-opetition "masturbating monkeys" get a peace prize. :)
That aside, I firmly believe that the GPL is the reason for the success of the Linux kernel and of GNU/Linux. Compare the success of Linux and GNU/Linux to other systems which are more stable and have better documentation (like OpenBSD). There are many reasons why this might be, but I think that there would have been far fewer contributions to the Linux kernel if its license did not provide equal access for all contributors. A substantial part of Linux was written by commercial entities who would undoubtedly not be willing to invest in a product which their competition could build upon without contributing likewise in return.
We all owe a tremendous debt to RMS that I doubt will ever be repaid.
Unfortunately Comp Sci isn't considered science (Score:5, Interesting)
the nobel peace prize should be discontinued (Score:4, Insightful)
the nobel peace prize has entered the realm of farce (arafat, kissinger, and obama for smiling nicely) and has destroyed its legitimacy
of course, maybe the whole idea was doomed from the start as a flawed idea
perhaps the prize should be reconstituted as a way to recognize truly deserving underappreciated efforts, such as microlending in poor areas or water purification projects. in other words: no matinee idols or celebrities need apply. this would rule out deserving celebrities like nelson mandela, but it would also rule out the likes of kissinger and arafat. no more stunt prizes like obama's
a prize only for the truly anonymous makes a heck of a lot more sense actually in the realm of what it really means to labor for peace selflessly, which is true peacemaking anyways
so if not discontinued, the prize should be reconsituted with strict guidelines as a prize for the truly anonymous
Re:List his peace initiatives... (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets see Obama's as well...
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Re:List his peace initiatives... (Score:5, Informative)
He created a multinational project of cooperation between tons of people all over the globe and made a project that has helped change the computer industry and lower costs, making computing more affordable for everyone. Sounds good to me.
That's a lot better than saying you'll do things but not having done them yet.
He'll never win. The prize is very political, and I doubt they would give it to someone who isn't in their group of admired people. As a PR tool, it could be much more valuable to give it to someone else.
Are there better candidates? I'd certainly expect so. But look at the list of winners [nobelprizes.com]. While some are obviously good (Doctors Without Borders, The Dalai Llama) others are much more questionable.
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Re:List his peace initiatives... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:List his peace initiatives... (Score:5, Funny)
Since Obama got one for not being George W. Bush, Linus should get one for not being Theo de Raadt.
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Re:Well he's at least done more than Obama (Score:5, Funny)
Linus didn't start a nuclear war with Iran either.
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Re:Well he's at least done more than Obama (Score:5, Funny)
Linus didn't start a nuclear war with Iran either
...yet.
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Re:Well he's at least done more than Obama (Score:5, Funny)
Technically true, but you're forgetting Linus' herring genocide of 1997.
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Re:Well he's at least done more than Obama (Score:4, Insightful)
Not starting a nuclear war with Iran is technically doing nothing, but I still think it's a very, very good idea.
George W. Bush didn't start a nuclear war with Iran and he didn't get a Nobel Peace Prize.
Also, keep in mind that Obama has a few more years in which he could start a nuclear war with Iran.
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Re:That's GNU/Linux, you insensitive clod! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:That's GNU/Linux, you insensitive clod! (Score:5, Funny)
...he would refuse it anyway, on the grounds that it wasn't called the "GNU/Nobel Peace Prize".
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Richard M. Stallman is doing the real work (Score:4, Insightful)
Stallman's working for social justice, freedom and equality. He gets chosen less often as a posterboy, but he's the one doing the really important work.
Linus is only popular because his style is convenient for IBM and the other megacorps. He goes with the flow, let's those with power do what they want.
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Re:Why Insult him with that? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Can we stop with the Obama comparisons? (Score:4, Informative)
The Obama peace prize meme is really annoying. I don't think it was a great idea to give the prize to him but it the idea that we don't give nobel peace prizes to people to encourage/support/recognize potential work is just wrong. For example, the 1935 prize went to Carl von Ossietsky for his journalism and peace activism against the Nazis. He had at that point done very little to stop the Nazis. And we all know how well he actually succeeded. Not at all. But that prize was completely reasonable. There's a long history of giving the prizes to people who promise future work.
Carl von Ossietsky did not receive the peace prize for "potential work". he received the prize for the work he had done publicizing the German violations of the Treaty of Versailles and for speaking out against the Nazi Party. He received the prize for actions he had already taken, even if such actions had been ineffective. Please try again to provide an example of someone (other than Obama) who received the Nobel Peace Prize for actions they had promised to take at some indefinite time in the future.
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Re:Sure, why not? (Score:5, Interesting)
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