Do You Hate Being Called an "IT Guy?" 736
An anonymous reader writes "The phrase 'IT' is so overused, I'm not sure what it means any more. OK, maybe it's an ego thing, but I spent a lot of years in grad school, lots of years getting good at creating software, and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze. I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company, and they refer to everything about software development, data center operations, and desktop support as 'IT.' I'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required. Am I just being petty? Should I just forget it? Change it slowly over time? These folks are really developing products, but we don't normally call software creators 'product developers.' Just call them the 'Tech Department' or the 'Engineering Deptartment?'"
What's in a name (Score:4, Interesting)
The you realize the tunnel view you get when following such a path. And after a couple of years of having tried to adopt a fancy name -senior consultant, senior anything- I resolved to name myself that what defines me. If people ask I'll tell them I'm a programmer. Doing well for years with a lovely family, a very good income and a sports car that turns heads. But still a programmer.
I can develop products -which is much more than coding-, I can look through the organization and suggest improvements and I can tell anyone paying me he's brilliant. Still I'm a programmer.
Mainstream will never be able to keep cracks charlatans so don't set your hopes too high on job titles.
Consider job titles at Google. Naming Vint Cerf an Internet Evangelist is a way of telling the world that job titles don't really matter and that the substance matters way more.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
It's just not very descript, the connotations that the term 'IT' has attached are different to those of 'programmer', at least to myself, and I've no reason to believe I'm unique with that. IT in my experiences will tend to be more office/user facing; easing other peoples use of other peoples products, dealing with word processing, spreadsheets, all that kind of stuff. Programmers create the stuff that the people in IT use.
Personally I find it easy to escape the label of 'IT' by not having a clue how to use Excel or Word leaving me very much being not the person to ask :-) System architecture, coding problems, no sweat, that stuff interests me, so that's the stuff I'm interested in being associated with. I don't look down on people who fix the office printers or get peoples mail clients working with their AV or whatever... I don't look down on teachers, but it doesn't mean I wanna be one or believe that calling me one is an accurate description.
Re:Information Technology (IT) (Score:2, Interesting)
I expect Accountants get tired of it too (Wait! You mean the girl who looks after the petty cash isn't interchangeable with the CFO?)
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't see why this would matter.
I can. Where I work (as in most places I imagine), the IT department handles the network and helpdesk. IT also includes database administrators. While the database admins can write some really good SQL, they don't know jack about networks or computer maintenance. This is all fine and good. However, management doesn't know jack about IT. So we end up with a bunch of database administrators trying to run a network and maintain computers. And management wonders why everything is falling apart all of the time.
Keeping the titles separate might help management make the distinction between the database guys and network engineers.
Member of Technical Staff (Score:4, Interesting)
That's THE title at Bell Labs. If it's good enough for Dennis it's good enough for me.
Yes, But..... (Score:1, Interesting)
Yes, but when someone asked you questions about drag coefficient and fuel consumption, did or did you not answer "Dunno about any of that, but I can fold a mean paper airplane"?
Yes, I do. But people don't call me one. (Score:5, Interesting)
Would you call someone who designs aircraft engines a mechanic? Would you call someone who designs central heating boilers a plumber? Would you call someone who runs a team working on ALU design at Intel an electrician?
My point is that nowadays IT is actually a trade, and mostly attracts the sort of people who in the past would have become plumbers, electricians and mechanics. Which is not to knock them, because these are essential and valuable trades, but basically they implement what other people have designed and specified. Programmers who are not just coders, systems designers, user interface designers - these are creative professions.
In the UK we have a terrible tradition of confusing professionals with tradesmen, caused by our emphasis on "administrative" skills. We've just had the Government dismiss their principal expert on drugs because he dared to disagree with the irrational "omg smelling cannabis kills you I need a stiff drink or five before I can go back to work" culture of the Government and the Civil Service. In a properly organised world we would sack the Government for lying to us, but in the mind of the Govt., Prof. Nutt's status is about that of a plumber. The point is that you go to tradesmen for advice on implementation of what you want to do, but you go to professionals to tell you what to do in the first place. You somehow need to get back to that position (I say you. I hope to retire in 5-6 years; then it will be someone else's problem. For now, I am quite happy being a software architect, because that is actually what I do.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
From what I've understood companies in the US are extremely tightfisted about giving information about employees, so you'd better take what little you get. If you were a DBA but all your resume says is "IT department" and that's all they'll confirm then you have an uphill battle just to convince them that you were in fact a DBA, and not the guy replacing broken keyboards and fixing paper jams who is now desperately seeking a new job.
Of course there's such a thing as title inflation so too excessive a title will set off bullshit detectors, but there's no reason to sell yourself short either. I'm hardly a career ladder climber, but I would react negatively to a job title that would sell me short with my next employer. While it's not as bad here as in the US, the resumes do get screen by recruiting companies and HR and not having the title could lose me interviews before I even got to talk about what I've been doing.
Re:IT guys use the same about other departments (Score:1, Interesting)
Speak for yourself. I worked in a world-class marketing company, and I learned a lot about what marketing can do.
FTFY.
New here? jcr worked for Apple.
Re:Build a bridge.... (Score:0, Interesting)
Re:I don't work in IT, but.... (Score:1, Interesting)
Well, yes. At my school at least, the "IT" major was seemingly designed explicitly for students who started out as CS majors but realized they couldn't hack it. This way they could still do something computer related and apply the credit hours they had earned. The students themselves were pretty frank about this, too.
Re:You have an ego problem (Score:2, Interesting)
My wife happens to think that I spend too much time on the computer, and as I work in I.T. at work I shouldn't need to touch a computer when I get home. My "hobby" and "work" are the same... apparently. My work is actually maintaining servers, and my hobby is programming. I wish there were a way to explain to her the difference... *sigh*
I can sympathize (Score:2, Interesting)
There are people who are walking the earth today who, were it not for me, would be dead. Not "I was a member of a team", not "If I hadn't been there, someone else would." because of me.
And yet I am referred to by a huge number of people as being an "Ambulance Driver".
Now, I don't see what's so degrading about being referred to as an "IT guy", but if it bothers you, then by all means try to change it. Speaking from my experience as a person who is exceedingly inept at the whole office politics thing, though, I'd suggest not putting that forth as a demand of taking the job, that sort of thing (I've come to find out), tends to make people think you're...well...a pain in the ass.
(Unkie) Reamus
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Re:It matters to future employers (Score:3, Interesting)
Tell them federal law says they must pay you overtime with an IT title. It's not actually true, only real IT workers get overtime by law, developers only get overtime when the company is being nice. But surely HR perceives their titles as being correct. So either you are eligible for overtime or HR must admit they are lying about your title.
Re:Self-important Douchebag (Score:1, Interesting)
"What's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good. Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it." --Andy Warhol
To be fair, it seems that everyone in the Americas (North, Central, and South) to the exclusion of those living in the United States of America get to drink the good Coke (made with real sugar). In the USA, we get corn syrup Coke. Of course, this all happened after Mr Warhol said this.
Re:Self-important Douchebag (Score:3, Interesting)
Ha! You call *him* self-important?
Well you could have called me King of Computing; Lord Protector of Communication Infrastructure; Suzerein of Anything That Might Break; and Keeper of the Secret of Setting Digital Watches.
I'd have answered to Patron Saint of Lost Files or The Last Best Hope of the Desperate Cubicle Dwellers.
I don't play that role any longer, but when I did, I had no doubt I was important to *other* people. They turned to me when they were in doubt or trouble, and I and I sent them away feeling like they had some control over their lives. I kept things running smoothly, and when somebody did something really stupid I helped them get back on track.
Now doing those things made me feel pretty damned important. I could be proud, sometimes even arrogant, but I knew my business and took it seriously. I made the people I worked with see my job as important too, *and that made them happier customers.*
Any young guy in the business who does his job well is entitled to pat himself on the back, because people don't give the IT guy respect just because he deserves it as a human being. Oh, no. Left to their own devices, they'll see him as an extension of the machines they work with and treat him accordingly. You've got to understand for most people that means abusing the machinery.
You've got to establish a zone of respect around yourself so you can do your job. You've got to be mentally tough. You deal with a lot of angry, pissed off people, and beneath that anger is the customer's fear of failure, guilt over lousy planning, and shame over not knowing how everything works. You've got to project confidence and self-respect, otherwise when you need the people you work with to act rationally, they won't.
And you've got to exact respect from people. When you *do* not only *you* will be happier, your *customers* are happier too. Nobody wants to rely on somebody they don't respect.
Re:Yes, I do. But people don't call me one. (Score:3, Interesting)
You're a pet peeve of mine ;)
I design buildings for a living, and in my field, the job title "architect" is pretty highly regulated. I have a masters degree in architecture and over 4 years of experience practicing, yet I can't refer to myself as anything containing the word "architect" or else I face potential legal issues. To use the word "architect" in my job description, I have to be licensed, which requires 3 years of internship work, then passing a bunch of licensing exams. And then continuous education credits as well as yearly fees for pretty much the rest of my life.
My gripe isn't with you, it's just silly how the architecture profession has gone to all of this trouble harassing the newcomers to its profession, yet at the same time allowed other fields to take the term "architect" and hand it out almost arbitrarily.
OK, I'm done.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't look down on people who fix the office printers or get peoples mail clients working with their AV or whatever... I don't look down on teachers, but it doesn't mean I wanna be one or believe that calling me one is an accurate description.
I once worked at a university (doing "IT" for the engineering school) and during one of the staff meetings, the management suggested that they could save money by having the computer science professors take over all the IT tasks in the school.
Fortunately one of CS profs quickly suggested that the EE professors could fix wiring and changing light bulbs and the Civil Engineering profs could clean bathrooms and unplug toilets. The idea died almost quicker than it was born. But it belies the point of this article. Most people have no idea what "IT" even means and assume that if you can do one thing with a computer then you are automatically able to do all things.
Re:IT Guy ? (Score:3, Interesting)
LOL An IT-Guy.. Ah well I have been at this since what.. 97 or so? Worked out in the field with telco guys, programmed routers, firewalls, linux boxes, fixed windows... data recovery.. so I am used to the guy thing. it IS a male dominated field.. so I accept it and go with the flow. Specially gaming ;)
And, I prefer the intelligent geek IT guy myself ;)
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Re:It matters to future employers (Score:3, Interesting)
occasionally you get those that just WILL NOT let you wipe the drive. I had one guy come in with well over 1000 bugs. I told him I would have to wipe the drive, he said no. I said it would cost $500 for me to remove that many infections, and even then I could make no guarantees, he cut me a check right there.
I can't really complain with that -- though I don't know I'd have the balls to ask for $500, as I don't work with windows enough to have good instincts about where to look.
Oh, and as for your "recover their data" part? BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Do you have any idea how many times I have had to deal with asking customers MULITPLE times if they had any "weird" places they kept data, only to have them say no and later come back with "oh by the way..." I even had one moron who kept important data in the recycle bin!
So image their drive?
Seriously, it's a bit unprofessional to lose data, ever.
So now if I gotta wipe I tell them "name anything you wanted backed up RIGHT NOW" you don't name it, it is gone"
They won't be able to. Hell, I wouldn't be able to, unless you could back up my entire home directory.
Now, what you can do is say "If you aren't ABSOLUTELY SURE, pay me $x more so I can store an image of all your data. That way, you won't lose ANYTHING until you tell me you're absolutely sure."
ignorance saves them money (Score:1, Interesting)
Its the way of poor management, to keep low retainers to all, no matter their expertise.
I simply refuse those customers, although they are the majority.
drbin
ps: I'm stuck with a lot of (L)users though, but thats another story