Do You Hate Being Called an "IT Guy?" 736
An anonymous reader writes "The phrase 'IT' is so overused, I'm not sure what it means any more. OK, maybe it's an ego thing, but I spent a lot of years in grad school, lots of years getting good at creating software, and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze. I'm looking at a tech management job at a content company that is trying to become a software company, and they refer to everything about software development, data center operations, and desktop support as 'IT.' I'd like to tell the CEO before I take the job that we have to stop referring to all these people as 'IT people' or I'm not going to be able to attract and retain the top-tier talent that is required. Am I just being petty? Should I just forget it? Change it slowly over time? These folks are really developing products, but we don't normally call software creators 'product developers.' Just call them the 'Tech Department' or the 'Engineering Deptartment?'"
Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't see why this would matter. Hopefully potential candidates will look beyond whatever their official job title is. I'd change it slowly over time.
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Me neither. It's just as stupid as if the finance people didn't want to be finance people anymore... Engineering department? That's where the engineers are - you know, the people who design hardware of different types
And by the way - by writing "[...]don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze." you clearly have earned the same label.
It matters to future employers (Score:5, Insightful)
Potential employees are probably more worried about future employers/their resumes, and it's not unreasonable of them to do so.
Frankly, a respectable-sounding title is one very cheap way for employers to compensate their employees that costs the company absolutely nothing yet is of material benefit to the employee. It's one reason nearly everyone in sales and marketing is a "director" or "head" of some tiny sliver of a given institution's sales/marketing operation. "Director, Central California Sales," "Head of E-marketing Business Development" etc. You're more likely to attract ambitious, driven people if your position comes with a nice title. These are also the sort of people who will work very hard for you, because they're hungry for advancement. Of course, they also are likely to leave the company as soon as a better offer comes along. But I'd rather get 3 years of work from a ambitious employee than 10 years from a just-getting-by timecard-puncher.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It matters to future employers (Score:5, Insightful)
Just from a developer: I think I really appreciate the "fix Windoze" people (if they know what they are doing), because I sure wouldn't want to do it. That's why I don't like to have "IT" used a catch-all, it means that during jobs searching you often have to sort out manually those jobs that are not relevant to you (how many developers are looking for and admin job and the other way round?) and even worse, as a developer with a bit of a more mathematical and OS-design background you also have to look at the "Research & Development" job openings for some countries. It really is quite a mess, and I just can't help the feeling that in many cases for the HR department everyone from the scientific supercomputing guy to the one switching out the graphics card they are all "computer guys" which obviously makes as much sense as lumping the guy cleaning the toilets together with the one making sure the air is clean in you chip manufacturing area.
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Theda Bara was the IT girl, and she didn't mind the title.
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Re:It matters to future employers (Score:4, Funny)
/ now they can all just get off my lawn
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occasionally you get those that just WILL NOT let you wipe the drive. I had one guy come in with well over 1000 bugs. I told him I would have to wipe the drive, he said no. I said it would cost $500 for me to remove that many infections, and even then I could make no guarantees, he cut me a check right there.
I can't really complain with that -- though I don't know I'd have the balls to ask for $500, as I don't work with windows enough to have good instincts about where to look.
Oh, and as for your "recover their data" part? BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Do you have any idea how many times I have had to deal with asking customers MULITPLE times if they had any "weird" places they kept data, only to have them say no and later come back with "oh by the way..." I even had one moron who kept important data in the recycle bin!
So image their drive?
Seriously, it's a bit unprofessional to lose data, ever.
So now if I gotta wipe I tell them "name anything you wanted backed up RIGHT NOW" you don't name it, it is gone"
They won't be able to. Hell, I wouldn't be able to, unless you could back up my entire home directory.
Now, what you can do is say "If you aren't ABSOLUTELY SURE, pay me $x more so I can store an image of all your data. That way, you won't lose ANYTHING until you
Re:It matters to future employers (Score:4, Insightful)
For non-degree holders, titles are given instead of raises.
It makes us feel important and costs nothing.
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Tell them federal law says they must pay you overtime with an IT title. It's not actually true, only real IT workers get overtime by law, developers only get overtime when the company is being nice. But surely HR perceives their titles as being correct. So either you are eligible for overtime or HR must admit they are lying about your title.
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Your situation sucks.
You need to find a way to do just your academic work, or seriously, find another job. What they're doing to you will stifle you until you really just want to die.
It's not worth it.
I'm in a similar boat. I showed a capability to do databases in my current job and have been doing that more than the job on my title, and have built quite an interesting system that does a certain job really well. Now we actually want backup and I see why they were content having me do it. Our IT dept is
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a reason why we don't refer to screwdrivers, circular saws and sanding machines all as "hammers". There is a reason why we have different words for "poisonous" and "tasty"... if you're not eating them, then just "berries" might be a sufficient description to you, but language evolves for a reason, we have vocabulary for a reason, description is important. Not understanding the different between two different terms shows you haven't been exposed to it. Not understanding that there could be important differences that may lie outside of what you've been exposed to show narrow mindedness. Personally, I'd rather go with the label of 'petty over my label' than that of 'deliberately ignorant', so I respect even the differences that I don't understand.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a reason why we don't refer to screwdrivers, circular saws and sanding machines all as "hammers"
Yes there is such a reason and that's because they're not "hammers" an "tools," which is why we don't call them "hammers" but we call them "tools." And while we're at it, please hand me that "toolbox." No, not that "screwdrivers-and-circular-saws-and-hammers-box" just the "toolbox." Thanks.
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People call me a tool all the time.
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There is a reason why we don't refer to screwdrivers, circular saws and sanding machines all as "hammers". There is a reason why we have different words for "poisonous" and "tasty"... if you're not eating them, then just "berries" might be a sufficient description to you, but language evolves for a reason, we have vocabulary for a reason, description is important. Not understanding the different between two different terms shows you haven't been exposed to it. Not understanding that there could be important differences that may lie outside of what you've been exposed to show narrow mindedness. Personally, I'd rather go with the label of 'petty over my label' than that of 'deliberately ignorant', so I respect even the differences that I don't understand.
Normally, I'd agree with you. I'm a big fan of using the appropriate words for the appropriate things. It frustrates me to no end to see people appropriating words for their own purposes and completely mis-using the English language.
However, "IT" is more of a generic label than a specific title. It refers to an entire department - just as "HR" does. Not everyone in HR is a manager... Nor do they all do the same job... Nor are they all on the same pay grade... But they're all in HR.
Same thing goes for
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Calling software development, network engineering, web design etc. all "IT" is a bit like calling HR, accounting and legal all "paperwork". I agree with the story author - the need to call everyone who produces or maintains software or hardware "IT" just shows how little most people understand the businesses they run and the people they employ. It's that reasoning that leads to (in small companies... hopefully) the pimply faced youth who reboots the servers being asked to design and deploy a mission-critical database because he 'knows about computers'. Your post typifies this: they're all "vaguely related to Information Technology" therefore they should be the same department? That makes no sense at all, and many companies get this wrong, wrong, wrong.
If this were a board dedicated to HR-related topics... Instead of IT-related topics... I'm sure we'd see people on here complaining that they don't like being referred to as an "HR guy." I'm also sure that you've at least once in your life referred to someone as "working in HR" or being "from HR" or having to go talk to "somebody in HR."
Is it accurate? Is it specific? No... But it doesn't need to be.
If your company is big enough to have an entire software department, I'm sure you get referred to as a
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:4, Insightful)
However, I think most people understand the difference between an HR manager, accountant and lawyer, and they would have different job titles even if they were all in an administration dept. It's unlikely they would all be called 'administration guy' and be expected to deal with the same queries, unless it's a really, really small company, in which case it's fair enough and everyone is expected to be versatile. I don't think IT is given the same respect/insight, so I think the article author's point stands.
Of course they'll have different job titles - just as I assume our "IT guy" is going to have some kind of official job title like "Senior Network Administrator" - but that doesn't really matter. We're talking about somebody who doesn't want to be called an "IT guy" even though he works in the "IT Department."
HR is responsible for human resources... Accounting is responsible for money... Legal is responsible for all the legal mumbo-jumbo...
So, where does payroll fit into things? Is that HR or Accounting?
How about whoever it is that handles things like the hiring and firing procedures... Does that fall under Legal, or HR?
I'm sure you've got people working in HR who have skillsets that more closely resemble folks in Accounting or Legal... Or you've got people who have duties that fall somewhere between the departmental lines... But you've still got to stick them on an organizational chart somewhere.
So you get guys in HR who don't know the first thing about hiring or firing people... Who went to years and years of school to learn all kinds of neat accounting stuff... But they're still in HR, whether they like it or not. And they'll still be introduced as "Joe from HR" - even if they don't like the association with the people who fire you. And maybe they'll be asked about some benefit package during lunch, and they won't be able to answer, because they don't know anything about benefits.
How does that differ from someone in IT who went to school for years and years to learn programming and has nothing to do with actually fixing a broken PC?
It may very well be that your average human being doesn't understand the intricacies of IT work... May not understand the subtle differences between a DBA and a network administrator (they're both administrators, right?) But that doesn't really have much to do with organizational charts.
If your company has an IT department, and you work in it, you're an IT guy. Just as you're an HR guy if you work in the HR department, and you're a Sales guy if you work in the Sales department.
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>There is a reason why we don't refer to screwdrivers, circular saws and sanding machines all as "hammers".
All tools are hammers, except screwdrivers and they're chisels.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:4, Insightful)
Hi there,
I'm a software engineer. Take your funny definitions of what is and what isn't engineering somewhere else.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:4, Funny)
haha! You're just a software engineer? I'm a supreme senior software analyst advisor head of the developmental engineering analytics division!
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's where the engineers are - you know, the people who design hardware of different types
Please don't give credence to professional engineering societies who try to fetishize the word "engineer".
Engineers are also people who adjust the mix levels of audio recordings. Or dig ditches for the military. Or drive trains or fire trucks. Or keeps the radio equipment running.
Or engage in the (IEEE-recognized, for what little that's worth) field of software engineering.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
It's just not very descript, the connotations that the term 'IT' has attached are different to those of 'programmer', at least to myself, and I've no reason to believe I'm unique with that. IT in my experiences will tend to be more office/user facing; easing other peoples use of other peoples products, dealing with word processing, spreadsheets, all that kind of stuff. Programmers create the stuff that the people in IT use.
Personally I find it easy to escape the label of 'IT' by not having a clue how to use Excel or Word leaving me very much being not the person to ask :-) System architecture, coding problems, no sweat, that stuff interests me, so that's the stuff I'm interested in being associated with. I don't look down on people who fix the office printers or get peoples mail clients working with their AV or whatever... I don't look down on teachers, but it doesn't mean I wanna be one or believe that calling me one is an accurate description.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't look down on people who fix the office printers or get peoples mail clients working with their AV or whatever... I don't look down on teachers, but it doesn't mean I wanna be one or believe that calling me one is an accurate description.
I once worked at a university (doing "IT" for the engineering school) and during one of the staff meetings, the management suggested that they could save money by having the computer science professors take over all the IT tasks in the school.
Fortunately one of CS profs quickly suggested that the EE professors could fix wiring and changing light bulbs and the Civil Engineering profs could clean bathrooms and unplug toilets. The idea died almost quicker than it was born. But it belies the point of this article. Most people have no idea what "IT" even means and assume that if you can do one thing with a computer then you are automatically able to do all things.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't see why this would matter.
I can. Where I work (as in most places I imagine), the IT department handles the network and helpdesk. IT also includes database administrators. While the database admins can write some really good SQL, they don't know jack about networks or computer maintenance. This is all fine and good. However, management doesn't know jack about IT. So we end up with a bunch of database administrators trying to run a network and maintain computers. And management wonders why everything is falling apart all of the time.
Keeping the titles separate might help management make the distinction between the database guys and network engineers.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Funny)
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Yeah, good luck with that. The only view of computers they see is the screen, keyboard, mouse, and if they are really sophisticated Power Users, a USB stick. They are now considered experts by those Upper Management (UM) that fear to even gaze upon a computer and have their secretaries print out their emails for markup and reply. The UM will gladly turn to these experts since they are all Business School Product and speak the language of widgets, product, cash-flow, and will fondly recall bits of Buzzword B
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
"IT guy" or "computer guy" or whatever. People need a generic term to describe people who work in some area they don't (or won't be bothered to) understand. "doctor" or "engineer" or "lawyer" just the same. A cardiac surgeon doesn't know much otolaryngology; an EE doesn't know much about steam turbines; a personal injury lawyer isn't going to be much help with your corporate takeover. It's easier to lump all of the people who do similar work together and refer to the whole group by a generic term - eg, "IT people" for all the computer-centric jobs, whether hardware, software, or support; eg, "lawyers" whether they're finance, liability, or contract. "IT people" should probably have descriptive titles for internal use, once the group gets large enough for division of labor and effort to be important, but you shouldn't get too upset if people outside the group just see "computer people."
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Funny)
Except for us Prius driving Austin Texans. We prefer to be called "star child". Now pass the aromatherapy candle.
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As a native Texan (now living in Berkeley) I have to admit that my childhood conception of New England included every state north of Georgia.
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"Computer guy" is pretty much fine... you could manage servers, you could be on the floor keeping office workstations going so that people don't lose access to their accounting information, or you could be a games programmer, they are all computer jobs. But could you call the guys at ID "IT"?
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
A cardiac surgeon doesn't know much otolaryngology;
That analogy would be correct if people wouldn't know the difference between Java programmers and C++ programmers. I'm pretty sure every cardiologist would feel a bit insulted if a patient wouldn't know the difference between him and a nurse. Nothing against nurses, every hospital would collapse without their work.
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I work in IT. I'm an IT Professional. Do I know anything about fixing windoze? HELL NO! Do people assume I know about PCs and wireless routers and (sheeze!) printers? Yep ... all the time!
To the untrained eye IT is IT is IT. It's like wine tasting vs beer tasting. Until you expose yourself to the knowledge you just think they all taste th
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:4, Funny)
Some of these people think the server is a "CPU" or a "Hard Drive". I get calls where they say "the internet is down" because they somehow deleted the IE icon. They don't even know how to use the address bar in their browser, they type the url into one of the 10 search toolbars they've installed. You face the wrath of god when you delete their Weather Bug crapware. "my weather doesn't work, the it guy broke it"
If I talk Java or C++ their eyes glaze over as they pretend to know what I am talking about. Never underestimate the stupidity of people. I say that as a stupid person.
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
A cardiac surgeon doesn't know much otolaryngology; an EE doesn't know much about steam turbines; a personal injury lawyer isn't going to be much help with your corporate takeover.
Comparisons:
Now, don't you think those on the right side of the above descriptions would frown own being referred to as health/electric stuff/law guy if the terms had the meanings I gave them above? And for "IT guy" that's exactly how the term is commonly used, the guy who gives you a new keyboard when you spill coffee on it gets referred to as an "IT guy" and so do your senior developers and sysadmins, guess why they're grumpy about it...
/Mikael
Re:Can't see why this would matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
From what I've understood companies in the US are extremely tightfisted about giving information about employees, so you'd better take what little you get. If you were a DBA but all your resume says is "IT department" and that's all they'll confirm then you have an uphill battle just to convince them that you were in fact a DBA, and not the guy replacing broken keyboards and fixing paper jams who is now desperately seeking a new job.
Of course there's such a thing as title inflation so too excessive a title will set off bullshit detectors, but there's no reason to sell yourself short either. I'm hardly a career ladder climber, but I would react negatively to a job title that would sell me short with my next employer. While it's not as bad here as in the US, the resumes do get screen by recruiting companies and HR and not having the title could lose me interviews before I even got to talk about what I've been doing.
You have an ego problem (Score:4, Informative)
You're in IT. Deal with it.
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I think the title most suited to him would be "PHB".
Nothing wrong with ego ;) (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, there's nothing wrong with ego. I, for one, always wanted to be called The High Priest Of The Sun. But then the barstards switched from Sun to IBM servers :p
Re:You have an ego problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Her understanding the difference between server admin and programming is irrelevant, and won't fix the problem: If your wife is telling you she thinks you're spending too much time at the computer, it's because she'd rather you spend the time with her, and were doing something romantic. Relationships work, and stay alive, on doing stuff together and having common interests.
When was the last time you brought her flowers? (assuming she likes them, I do know a couple of women who don't). When was the last time you went out on a date? Was it planned, or did you get home in the evening and say "let's go out tonight"? When was the last time you stayed in, and had a quiet evening snuggling? When was the last time you went dancing, or to the theater?
Getting married does not mean that you have to stop working at the romance side of things. You could probably earn yourself a week's worth of being left alone to program by taking her out on Friday. Try to do something romantic with her at least once a week, preferably more often, and you'll find that she stops feeling neglected, and will give you your time to do things like your hobby of programming.
*sighs*
Tara
Re:You have an ego problem (Score:5, Funny)
who has the ego problem here? (Score:3, Insightful)
*sighs*
Right back at you.
I actually broke my mod point to post this- do you understand how arrogant it is that you feel a)you understand the problem based on one or two sentences, b)you are qualified to give advice on the subject, and c)that it's your business to do the analysis and hand out advice? Nevermind that apparently "you spend too much time in front of the computer" somehow turned into:
Grammar Nazi to the Rescue! (Score:5, Insightful)
That aside, I think "Software Engineer," "Software Architect," "Analyst," "Lead Developer," and such are common titles for people who are creating things with software, as opposed to "IT's" tech-support implications.
Re:Grammar Nazi to the Rescue! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Strangely enough, my experience is exactly the opposite: When I say that I work in IT, people instantly assume that I'm a programmer, and it takes some time for me to make them understand that I don't know Jack about that.
(Well, I do a little PHP and C at times, but that doesn't make me a programmer.)
But yes, "IT guys" is the correct term for all of us: Programmers, admins, security specialists, tech support
Petty? (Score:5, Insightful)
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What do you mean ?
John Doe,
Senior Artificial Intelligence Architect, Coordinator, MSc, PMP, PO,
CBAP, PhD, MBA, Senior Rocket Scientist.
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Exactly there are a lot of business functions with rather generic names.
Human Resource... Are these the guys who keep track of your sick days or are they the ones who analyses all the people in there jobs and makes sure each one is the right fit and is being compensated for their work, and that their home/work life can stay balanced.
Marketing... Are these guys the ones who do cold calls to the customer during dinner. Or are they the ones who do a lot of work to figure out who their target market is and cr
GOOD GOD (Score:5, Funny)
Did the submitter forget his Twitter account password? Is his navel so big that he can't help but gaze into it?
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Whether you're a programmer or are IT support is not simple a matter of studying something different... you could study software development and end up in IT support, or you could study biology and end up as a programmer. I don't think this is a matter of refering to someone's abilities, it's a matter of refering to what they actually do. If you work for a marketting company, but you just make the tea, it wouldn't really be correct to say "I work in marketing", because you don't, you just happen to work for
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But he doesn't have an English degree, he studied commerce and has an MBA!
Hrmm (Score:5, Insightful)
In my view of the industry when someone says IT I think of the technical support, admin and sys planning teams. The ones who make the systems work and keep working.
Programmers and the such, I put in the developers group. Graphic designers, html jockeys or software developers. The ones who make what people see on their desktops look pretty.
You dont call someone who washes your car and gives it a bit of a polish a mechanic would you?
I'll let you (Score:5, Insightful)
call me Sue if you'll give me a job.
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Life ain't easy for a boy named "Sue" [azlyrics.com]
Get over yourself IT guy (Score:2, Informative)
Quality Control (Score:5, Funny)
Just call them the 'Tech Department' or the 'Engineering Deptartment?'" [sic]
The spelling Deptartment just called. They need more budget.
Information Technology (IT) (Score:5, Insightful)
You ARE in IT.
However, it's the equivalent of calling a Brain surgeon a Doctor
Or referring to a Nuclear physicist as a scientist.
It is kind of vague. Sometimes being more specific is good, as it points out people's specialty more.
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I really find this medical analogy apt, especially when extended a bit. Everyone in 'IT' does have some generalized knowledge, but that doesn't mean that the programmer is necessarily going to be able to help you figure out how to do something Word, just like a brain surgeon might not be the best person to help you with your ingrown toenail.
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I expect Accountants get tired of it too (Wait! You mean the girl who looks after the petty cash isn't interchangeable with the CFO?)
Re:Information Technology (IT) (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right, but I also see his point.
it doesn't matter (Score:3, Funny)
What's in a name (Score:4, Interesting)
The you realize the tunnel view you get when following such a path. And after a couple of years of having tried to adopt a fancy name -senior consultant, senior anything- I resolved to name myself that what defines me. If people ask I'll tell them I'm a programmer. Doing well for years with a lovely family, a very good income and a sports car that turns heads. But still a programmer.
I can develop products -which is much more than coding-, I can look through the organization and suggest improvements and I can tell anyone paying me he's brilliant. Still I'm a programmer.
Mainstream will never be able to keep cracks charlatans so don't set your hopes too high on job titles.
Consider job titles at Google. Naming Vint Cerf an Internet Evangelist is a way of telling the world that job titles don't really matter and that the substance matters way more.
Being called the IT Girl on the other hand... (Score:2)
I am a software engineer (Score:5, Funny)
IT guys are the scumbags who put desktop remote control software on my suse workstation. They are the reason I keep rootkits (ie, system rescue CDs) in my desk draw, and why most of the guys I directly work with run gentoo.
These are the people who solemnly told me they would improve my WAN latency issue by compressing the link. When I said that won't work they said they could always put two compressors in series.
When they replaced my Dell desktop with an equally crappy ASUS or something they replaced the Dell branded logitech keyboard and mouse with an ASUS branded logitech keyboard and mouse on the grounds that using the wrong type of peripheral might cause "incompatibilities".
Since they stopped supporting POP and SMTP I now have to use outlook inside windows inside vmware, except there used to be outlook web access which stopped working last weekend so I logged a call with the helpless desk and they got the whole story (running firefox on suse, etc) then they had to get me to give them the version of IE I had there (stuffed if I know why). So they didn't fix it (Exchange server cant authenticate me for some reason) and escalated it a few times then the second or third level guy called me back and asked if I had thought of restarting firefox. When I said yes he asked if I had restarted my system (said so, I had an import or ten on the go at the time). This after I had given them the error message which came back from exchange.
I wish I could sack these idiots. In theory they work for my organisation you know, but they seem to have their hooks in us.
Re:I am a software engineer (Score:4, Informative)
Someone seems to have confused someone who can turn on a computer with a competent technician.
The people you speak belong in a call center reading a script to AOL users.
How do these people get these jobs?
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There's a few colleges in a similar situation where it seems basically students who know how to manage with computers will avoid their college helldesk like the plague. Leading to getting, well, people who get taken on"do you want to work in IT?" "what's IT?" "you're hired!"
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Does the word WANKER have anything to do with WAN latency ?
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Assuming an unsaturated link, you are of course correct. With a saturated link, or with highly compressable data, light compression can make a difference. Of course it can't increase the speed of light, so I'm still gonna get annoying lag when pressing a key in my ssh client to my server in the states, but tunnelling my smtp/imap/sql/etc connections through that compressed ssh link does make a noticable difference, even with me only using 1% of my available bandwidth.
More than IT (Score:2)
I don't like people assuming that since my group is part of IS that we are "just" technology people. Yeah, we are programmers, but we are far more than that. We have to truly understand the business needs of our organization, and we do. We are partners with the business units, not just a bunch of geeks turning out code that we hope does what is needed, or coding to specs that may or may not be the best solution that some accountant thought up.
Self-important Douchebag (Score:4, Insightful)
"The phrase 'IT' is so overused, I'm not sure what it means any more.
It means "information technology".
OK, maybe it's an ego thing, but I spent a lot of years in grad school, lots of years getting good at creating software, and lots of years getting good at creating technical products and I don't want the same label as the intern who fixes windoze.
What's wrong with that? Are you really so shallow as this? (Don't answer) I can understand wanting some sort of prestige, but not liking something because the proles get to have it too is one of the worst features of human nature, and it's something that used to get trained out of non-upper-class Americans. Is it really that irritating to be in the same industry as the intern who fixes "Windoze"[sic]? From urbandictionary.com: douchebag "An individual who has an over-inflated sense of self worth, compounded by a low level of intelligence, behaving ridiculously in front of colleagues with no sense of how moronic he appears."
How does the following passage make you feel? Does it make you feel comforted or outraged?
"What's great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good. Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it."
--Andy Warhol
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
How does the following passage make you feel? Does it make you feel comforted or outraged?
Outraged. The idea that America (I assume he's speaking about the USA, not actually America, the continent) started something that pretty much existed since the beginning of time is... well... a bit silly.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Ha! You call *him* self-important?
Well you could have called me King of Computing; Lord Protector of Communication Infrastructure; Suzerein of Anything That Might Break; and Keeper of the Secret of Setting Digital Watches.
I'd have answered to Patron Saint of Lost Files or The Last Best Hope of the Desperate Cubicle Dwellers.
I don't play that role any longer, but when I did, I had no doubt I was important to *other* people. They turned to me when they were in doubt or trouble, and I and I sent them away
Titles before substance (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you really value titles before substance?
'IT Guy' isn't a term of abuse, why should you care if people call you that?
Do they value you in your current position? Of so great, if not fix it or leave. Either way being called an 'IT Guy' is not worth worrying about.
Member of Technical Staff (Score:4, Interesting)
That's THE title at Bell Labs. If it's good enough for Dennis it's good enough for me.
Anyone think of South Park after the summary? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't work in IT, but.... (Score:3, Insightful)
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Not so much that it seemed like the IT major was designed specifically for CS dropouts, but I noticed that most CS dropouts did end up there.
It could be worse (Score:2, Funny)
IT Guy ? (Score:5, Funny)
yup, specially when the client realizes I am a woman, not a guy :)
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LOL An IT-Guy.. Ah well I have been at this since what.. 97 or so? Worked out in the field with telco guys, programmed routers, firewalls, linux boxes, fixed windows... data recovery.. so I am used to the guy thing. it IS a male dominated field.. so I accept it and go with the flow. Specially gaming ;)
And, I prefer the intelligent geek IT guy myself ;)
Yes, I do. But people don't call me one. (Score:5, Interesting)
Would you call someone who designs aircraft engines a mechanic? Would you call someone who designs central heating boilers a plumber? Would you call someone who runs a team working on ALU design at Intel an electrician?
My point is that nowadays IT is actually a trade, and mostly attracts the sort of people who in the past would have become plumbers, electricians and mechanics. Which is not to knock them, because these are essential and valuable trades, but basically they implement what other people have designed and specified. Programmers who are not just coders, systems designers, user interface designers - these are creative professions.
In the UK we have a terrible tradition of confusing professionals with tradesmen, caused by our emphasis on "administrative" skills. We've just had the Government dismiss their principal expert on drugs because he dared to disagree with the irrational "omg smelling cannabis kills you I need a stiff drink or five before I can go back to work" culture of the Government and the Civil Service. In a properly organised world we would sack the Government for lying to us, but in the mind of the Govt., Prof. Nutt's status is about that of a plumber. The point is that you go to tradesmen for advice on implementation of what you want to do, but you go to professionals to tell you what to do in the first place. You somehow need to get back to that position (I say you. I hope to retire in 5-6 years; then it will be someone else's problem. For now, I am quite happy being a software architect, because that is actually what I do.
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You're a pet peeve of mine ;)
I design buildings for a living, and in my field, the job title "architect" is pretty highly regulated. I have a masters degree in architecture and over 4 years of experience practicing, yet I can't refer to myself as anything containing the word "architect" or else I face potential legal issues. To use the word "architect" in my job description, I have to be licensed, which requires 3 years of internship work, then passing a bunch of licensing exams. And then continuous educat
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed, and you have the same hierarchy within an engineering / machine shop, within a hospital, within a building services company, within electricians shops, on board a ship.... you name it.
What ***___IS___*** different now is that back in the old days the only route to being top dog was to work your way up through all the other levels and disciplines.
Now you just take a degree course in engineering and get to be a manager put in charge of people who, for example, use a hacksaw every day of their lives, e
Who *cares*? (Score:2)
I couldn't give a stuff what they call me. People at work generally know if they want their PC to be fixed, we have two people in the department who spend much time fixing PCs. They know if they need something developing, they go the developers. But it's all the "IT department" and the "IT guys". People seem to be able to figure out that we're not all the same, regardless.
Similarly, we call everyone in finance "the bean counters" right from the lowliest of them all the way up to the CFO.
Who cares.
Deptartment (Score:3, Insightful)
One thing is certain: Referring to any group as a deptartment (or worse, a deptardment) will not win favor with anyone, top-tier talent or not.
It doesn't matter that much (Score:4, Insightful)
We already have numerous title for someone who does programming. Too many in fact and it's because of those two types mentioned above or companies wanting to avoid paying a decent wage by giving you a title that is hard to compare to other titles.
Dialect (Score:3, Informative)
Briefly adding my own $0.02:
In Britain, 'IT' seems more acceptable to be used as a catchall for anything computer-related. In the US, many narrow the definition to helpdesk support, and the personnel responsible for the ongoing operation of anything computer-related. Developers and architects are separate (with DBAs and a few other positions hanging somewhere in the void between) --- I'm not sure if this is a regional distinction in the US, primarily because personnel in these fields tend to move around quite a bit.
Frankly, they're both valuable professions. I've worn both hats, and it's a bit of a shock to make the switch from one to the other, as both fields evolve and change so rapidly that it's very difficult to stay current in both. That said, I can easily understand why one would want their job title to accurate reflect their duties!
Stupid question, badly phrased (are you trolling?) (Score:3, Insightful)
So apparently you want to be taken more seriously, but you decide to drop "windoze" into your question? Do you really think that the people who hand out jobs - and titles - care about your personal prejudices? As a professional, if the best solution for your company is "Microsoft`s platform" then you deliver it, you don't spend time complaining about how no one respects you because your proposal to migrate Visual Studio to vi isn't taken seriously. If it makes sense, make a business case for it and argue for it, but if the guys upstairs decide against it then either shut up or get out. This is what happens every day in Sales, Marketing, Production, Finance etc., but you seem to believe that IT is different.
If you're so obsessed about a job title then insist on it your contract. As some people say, that may make sense if you're concerned about your next job, but how bad is this job if you're already thinking about the next one?
Stop being pretentious and get over IT (Score:3, Informative)
My first IT job was as a basic programmer on the TRS-80 back in the 80's when I was a kid (unique situation where the grown ups had no idea what to do with it but the company thought they needed to do inventory on a computer). Since then I have been called a Web programmer, router jockey, network engineer, NTAC, consultant, etc... The most offensive to me is Engineer, not for me but for those that really are engineers, I have no engineering degree and dont operate locomotives so I qualify for neither. I work in IT, I do alot of things. IT changes so often that there is no box to really put into it as a title description. IT Person works just fine.
I've really never understood the obsession with cool titles, I have worked with others who thought they had to have some goofy title as if it somehow made them royalty. As long as you get a paycheck and are treated with a fair amount of dignity does it really matter?
Re:I swear (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, you're in IT.
Sorry you don't have a shiny title to distinguish yourself from the lowly CPU-fixers and computer janitors, but there you go.
You're in IT. Face it. You're in IT. No way around it, might as well say it with me: You're in IT.
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Using downgrading terms for Us, how dare those lowly "users".
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IT = Information Technology
No matter how you twist it, all of the jobs you list deal with technology that processes information, or "information technology" if you will.
You can refine the job titles if you want (in fact, you've already given some examples), but they are all part of IT.