Saying No To Promotions Away From Tech? 410
lunchlady55 writes "I have been happily working for my current employer for five years. After moving up the ranks within my department from Intern to Technical Lead, a new manager essentially told me that I have to move into a different role, oriented toward 'administrative duties and management.' We are a 24x7 shop, and will now be required to work five 8-hour days rather than four 10-hour days and be on call during the other two days of the week. Every week. Including holidays. My question is: have any Slashdotters been forced into a non-technical role, and how did it work out? Has anyone said 'No thanks' to this kind of promotion and managed to keep their jobs?"
Re:You can't say NO (Score:5, Informative)
Stay tech at all costs (Score:0, Informative)
I haven't had to face this directly, but I've seen several of my co-workers be "promoted" to managerial positions, and they pretty much universally hate it. Besides just the crazy increase in workload and responsibility, they barely get to do technical work anymore, which I think is the biggest downside for most of them. As an engineer, I've got 2, maybe 3 meetings on my calendar each week, the rest of the time is spent...engineering. My supervisor's calendar, who is supposed to be a lead engineer, is chuck full of meetings, most are non-technical. There are weeks where he doesn't do any engineering at all because he's too busy being a manager.
Obviously, if your job is at stake, it's a tough call to make, especially in this economic climate. Depending on what kind of relationship you have with him, you might be able to just talk to your superior about it, tell them you'd really prefer to keep your old position, but explain that it's not worth your job (assuming that's the case).
Best of luck with it.
My dad had something similar happen to him. (Score:1, Informative)
Here's what you have to consider (Score:4, Informative)
Is...is this something that's good for your career? Is it a promotion? Is it a lateral move?
If it's a promotion you didn't ask for, and you turn it down for very clear reasons, AND you're doing a good job at your current role, there's a good chance you'll be fine. After all a valuable employee at Position X who turns down a promotion to X+1, is still valuable at X. However, it is likely that future promotions will be unavailable to you, at least for a while, as you'll be perceived as "happy where you are"
On the other hand, if you're being moved laterally to a non-technical position, there's a decent chance they say something like, "Well, lunchlady55 is smart, and very organized, good manager, but not really hands-on technical enough for what we need. We don't want to lose lunchlady55, but we're suffering because of L55's technical weaknesses. Why don't we move L55 laterally to a project manager-type role where we can leverage his/her strengths and backfill the technical position with someone who's very technical but requires lots of oversight"
In that situation, they're actually being good managers, by recognizing that they have a valuable employee who is just in the wrong position, and trying to rectify the situation. On the gripping hand, they're being bad managers, because if this is the case, it should really be explained to you.
If the latter situation is the case, you put them in a much rougher position, because they like you, but you're not meeting their needs in one area or another. In this case, you may lose your job.
The best way to handle this is to have an open and frank conversation with your manager. Talk about what the organizational chart looks like. Who will you be reporting to? Is there a raise or other compensation for being on-call? Be frank - are there concerns about your current job performance that led to this lateral move? Are they eliminating your position and they're just trying to protect you personally?
Based on all this, you can make an informed decision about what the situation is. You may want to try to negotiate yourself a better deal. For example, you're on call for the weekends, but whenever you have to do off-hours work while on-call, you get 2x that amount of time off your regular day during the week. Or you get paid for on-call time. Don't try to negotiate this until you understand why this is happening.
Didn't Work For Me (Score:3, Informative)
I wasn't pushed out of IT but about a year after starting my first job after grad I was pushed out of software development into a support role. At the time I went along, more out of fear of my job than anything else, but also because I didn't know any better. Ironically, I got so depressed in the support role that I eventually started looking for new work. And I loved the company I worked for too - good industry, respected company - so even thinking of leaving them was gut-wrenching.
They finally moved me back to my original development role at the last minute (I had another offer on the table) but it never did sit well with the management, who was unfortunately rather clueless about IT to begin with. A year later they outsourced their software development to India and I was told they "could not find a new role for me", which was very suspicious because there were numerous BA positions listed as vacant at the time I departed. However I did at least get severance.
So, to answer the question, no. If you resist, be prepared to start looking elsewhere. Also, be careful you aren't turning in your resignation by saying no: in many places if you turn down a promotion or lateral move you are deemed to have quit voluntarily and are thus not eligible for severance, options, or anything else. So one option might be to try it - it's possible you might like it, and if not at least it will buy you time to find something new.
P.S. That's the bad news of my story... the good news is I eventually realised that towing corporate lines wasn't for me, went into contracting, and now I make a whole lot more money exclusively doing something I really enjoy. I realise not everyone is that fortunate, but sometimes good things do come out of these situations.
Honestly assess yourself (Score:3, Informative)
Then there's the more common category, those whithout technical or leadership skills. Those folks often make the transition earlier because they're not motivated by quality or productivity. They languish in middle management.
So I suggest that you assess what career path best uses your skills and preferences (as you can see them now). Achieving that at your current employer may be difficult, but it's worth knowing if fighting to stay technical is really the right path for you.
I went "up" to management and back "down" to tech (Score:2, Informative)
If you're fundamentally unsuited to the job and are not interested in it then you will fail. In that situation nobody wins!
As for the change in hours - presumably you'll be getting "on call" pay, overtime etc? Or are they just trying to piss you off and make you leave?
Make sure your resume is up to date and start looking elsewhere anyway.
Where do you want your career to go? (Score:2, Informative)
I became a manager by accident once. Trying to get a few people trained up to take over my "unique skill" so I could quit without leaving clients of 8-9 years in the lurch. Within a month, I wasn't training them, I was managing them. And hating every minute of it. I once spent an entire week doing nothing but prioritizing workloads, shifting schedules, handling exceptions, facilitating communication between subcontractors and government agencies, attending meetings [shudder], etc. without doing a single piece of actual work myself. The next week, I started making a point of doing at least one project a day myself just to do it. (Yes, I understand that what I was doing was very important and kept the workload of an entire department flowing smoothly and efficiently but it wasn't the kind of work I was hired to do or the kind of work I wanted to do.) Before I could get around to actually quitting, the company shut down. When I interviewed for new positions, I didn't mention management on my resume and didn't bring it up unless asked. When my current boss interviewed me, he seemed concerned that I might be after his job because someone with my years of experience is generally getting ready to make that transition if they haven't already. I assured him that I had wasn't interested in his job. I'm good at what I do and I enjoy doing it as long as he does HIS job and insulates me from fools and meetings. So far, it's working out just fine.
So are you the guy who likes to DO things or the guy who likes to facilitate the activities of others, improve efficiency, direct future development, etc.?
Re:Negotiate (Score:3, Informative)
And I'd prefer to have the same stamina that I had when I was nineteen, too. I mean, it'd be cool if I could get absolutely smashed, and be fine the next day. I'm sure my SO would like it if I had the same stamina in the bedroom, too. I can't and I don't. There's a natural progression when it comes to a career, and being involved with managing other people is a part of that.
I'd probably ask about what my new job duties would be, and see if they fit with my desires, otherwise, it's a shot in the dark as to whether to take the job, fight to keep your current position, or find a new employer.
And be willing to accept whatever trade-offs come with it? That includes salary stagnation, and competition with younger people who might be more intellectually curious than you are, and expect a much smaller salary than you do.
One of the things that constantly bothers me when interviewing older workers is the fact that, in many ways, tech is no longer a joy....it's all job. I've found myself in that position more and more as I get older; building a Linux kernel is now tedious instead of exciting. I haven't had a GNU/Hurd install in years.
Interviewed a CCNA one time; when I asked him some questions about IPv6, he got defensive, then tried to convince me that it was never going to happen, and anyone looking at it was wasting his time.....
Needless to say, we had requirements from the customer for IPv6 work, and were trying to put together a team to address the project. Ended up hiring a 24 year-old without a degree or a cert, who was genuinely interested in where the technology is headed. Oh, and he wanted 60% of the salary (even without the military retirement, which the old guy had coming in, too.).
Re:Negotiate (Score:4, Informative)
2003 wants it's business model back.
And apostrophes would like you to stop abusing them. /pedant
I went from Senior IT lead to IT manager and made less if you calculate in hours. I was pulling in 60 hour work weeks as top of the pile IT grunt, all that OT adds up fast. As manager I got a 25% increase and switched to Salaried Exempt. I now work 60 hour weeks and get LESS cash.
Again, that's a management/billing problem. If everyone is pulling hours like that, you're understaffed. Perhaps it might be appropriate if IT is a parasitic function for your company; I know I worked those kinds of hours in a former job, where IT/engineering were secondary functions. But if you're directly billing a client for work, there shouldn't be many uncompensated hours. If you're selling a product/service, there's a management problem if your revenue isn't matching what your true expenses are. Charge more, or find a different way of doing things. Too 2003?
Re:You can't say NO (Score:5, Informative)
It only took our company 6 months to figure this out, and they ended up hiring back 400+ people that they had RIF'd. It took Accenture only that long to blow up a 4 month work backlog into a 2 year backlog.
24x7 Moving Away from Tech (Score:3, Informative)
Well, if it is 24x7, I would immediately demand 2 extra weeks paid vacation per year, and a tier one health plan.
(No deductables for anything, including prescriptions.)
After just 2 years of 24x7 calls, your health will be a lot worse. Lots of studies show people who do not get good nights sleep have a DOUBLE the cancer risk, psychological problems and get the flu way way more often than people who get a good nights sleep.
Second I would demand a health spa at the place of work, cardio vascular machines, and a shower locker room facilities simply because rushing out of bed, and going to work and not looking professional if the on call brings you into the work day, is unprofessional on your employers part.
Finally, of course, I would demand a night premium for all 24x7 calls serviced.
I due 24x7 support for companies for $120 and hour on the weekends, and $100 an hour on the weekdays.
If you make less that that per hour, I would say NO WAY.
-Hack
Re:Managers are on call to make up for employee sl (Score:3, Informative)
Your salary accounts for ~1/3 of the cost to the employer for having you around, if you count facilities and energy costs and taxes. This is only going to get worse as taxes go up to cover the costs of government spending on things like the war in Afghanistan and on universal healthcare. So it's a lot easier to increase responsibility at the cost of a small increase in salary and some title inflation than it is to hire more people.
I don't know where you come up with the 1/3 figure, but where I work the fully burdened cost per employee is 1.28 * salary. Most of that is benefits and employer paid taxes. Facilities charges are only a few thousand per person.