Music While Programming? 1019
BubbaDoom writes "In our cubicle-ville, we have programmers intermixed with accounting, customer support and marketing. As programmers, it is our habit to put on our headphones and listen to our portable music players to drown out all of the noise from everyone else. The boss recently sent an email just to the programmers demanding that we do not use our music players at work because he thinks it distracts us from our jobs and causes us to make mistakes. Of course, we've explained to him that prattle from the other people is much, much more distracting, but he insists his policy is the right one. What is the Slashdot community's experience with music at work for programmers?"
Ah, good (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, sure your headphones don't leak, but other people's do. And I'm not running around buying headphones for everyone. Why should I change, they're the ones who suck!
Other reason (Score:5, Interesting)
my experience (Score:2, Interesting)
My experience with listening to music at the workplace has been more positive than negative. Only one employer (NEC) actively prohibited listening to personal music, while others allowed it. One other employer in particular (Epson) even had music streamed non-stop over a PA. (Granted, when management realized more people were listening to personal players instead, they discontinued the use of the PA.)
you're always going to have noise (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:music as a distraction? depends (Score:3, Interesting)
That just depends on how much you concentrate on the music: if you really listen to it, it can be distracting. If you merely hear it, that shouldn't be detrimental.
Personally, I find the best music to code to - if any - is either ambient music or "smooth jazz", genres that are mostly made for staying in the background and not claiming too much attention.
Constant Noise (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't work with music (Score:5, Interesting)
I like music, and when it's on, I can't help but listen to it. That means that while music is playing, I can't concentrate on reading a book, let alone write code. This applies to all but the most ambient styles of music. And a drone doesn't help me work either. If I thought all programmers were like me, I'd ban headphones too.
But, we're all different, and I know some people do their best work when zoned out behind their headphones.
It sounds like this management decision comes from someone who doesn't realise how much people vary.
It would make sense to provide programmers with an environment where they can escape prattle when they need to, as well.
Foam earplugs (Score:4, Interesting)
Earplugs (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Programming without music? (Score:5, Interesting)
Music makes good background, and can be easily tuned out.
On the other hand, conversations are something I can't help but respond to, especially when it's a question.
Even worse, a questions of a technical nature regarding computers.
Music is a stimulator (Score:2, Interesting)
When working with music on, I've found that whatever the style of music I listen to (from ambient to afrobeat to folk rock to heavy metal), it tends to put me into a trance-like state, where I am able to do good designing or a lot of routine coding work, or debugging, which makes me much more productive. But what I've also noticed is that every kind of music sets a different working rhythm, so different kinds of programming work need a different type of music for the best results.
Nice ambient, lounge, trance for example, tend to be somewhat good for designing and implementing new stuff, or cracking hard debugging issues (i.e. they stimulate abstract thinking and imagination). Hard rock, afrobeat, drum'n'bass make it easier doing some routine coding (I mean, coding which is routine) and simple routine debugging and testing, increasing your raw productivity.
I have also found, that just putting on big noise-cancelling headphones decreases the amount of effort needed to concentrate, while still allowing you to quickly respond to anyone asking you about anything. This is detrimental though, since closed earphones tend to make your ears more susceptible to catching cold, when you're using such headphones too much, something I have found out myself the hard way.
Re:music as a distraction? depends (Score:1, Interesting)
however i don't think slapping on headphones is the solution; music is also a distraction; you should be thinking about the problems and coding rather than focusing on the deep beats of the music :)
As a programmer I disagree with this statement. If you're coding anything that is complex or requires focusing then the music disappears but has that wonderful side effect of drowning out all that annoying background noise. If you're coding that boring repetitive crap that seems to be 90% of what we do then the music is the only thing getting you through.
I can't work with music, but I can work with noise (Score:4, Interesting)
I have programmed drunk, with not enough sleep, in my dreams (thats code that always run but is written in the most volatile material), angry, happy, hot, ...everything. I have programmed in enviroments with HEAVY noise around, not problem. But I can't work with music, and much less with radio of people talking. My mind is distracted by sound (information) that has a message. To be honest, I like programming in the night, with zero sounds. I like the silence much more than music.
Headphones & Music (Score:2, Interesting)
My position on this is that the manager is a troll and is a control freak.
I listen to a very large collection of music & podcasts at work.
If I had a manager actually state that as a position with the particular environs you mentioned I would be demanding a number of things:
1) segregation of the programmers to a more isolated area
2) segregation of anyone who is in sales to a basement office with sound proofing
3) scientific studies that the manager in question was not beaten up and stuffed in lockers in high school
Now while much of what I'm writing above may be construed as flame bait, I just posit it for laughs.
Seriously though, music and/or podcasts are some of the mechanisms I was using to deal with either utter silence (because my dev team was fairly isolated) or high volume sales people (after consolidation of the office employees after 1st round of layoffs).
Then play fair but play to win - ask for data (Score:5, Interesting)
So your boss claims when you listen to music you're collectively distracted and you make more mistakes. You should then, since you take anything that can improve the quality of the code seriously, hold this meta-contribution to the corporate codebase to the same standard as anything else - in other words, require it be tested and verified before committing it.
While from your standpoint this is likely to get you what you want, since it's very unlikely that your boss has anything factual to back up their position, it's also the most respectful way of considering your boss' potential contribution. "OK, even though you're not a skilled programmer, we'll still accept and treat your contribution just as if you were. Now here's the level of quality we all expect and demand from everything we put in our product - does what you intend to add actually meet the standards our company requires?"
And this also gives them the possibility of showing you how they're right, and for whatever reason the programming group is distracted and error-prone. Even if music isn't the immediate cause (perhaps more of a late-stage symptom of some other systemic problem), that would still be very helpful to know.
Of course, if you're just a bunch guys sitting around slinging code, you're gonna be SOL in this if you don't have any structure, testing and metrics to your development - and if you don't then your boss might strictly speaking be mistaken but indirectly be life's way of helpfully prompting you to get your act together.
Good luck improving your work environment. Rock out with your awk out!
Robert M. Pirsig's advice (Score:3, Interesting)
Robert M. Pirsig in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance said very clearly that seeing mechanics work with music in the background was the sound of a poor quality workshop. I've thought about this with regard to programming and I sway between needing total silence and needing music.
Pete Boyd
Re:Earplugs (Score:3, Interesting)
Earplugs give me a headache. Music is as distracting as the accounting group sitting all around me. What saved me were white noise mp3s. I put on noise reducing headphones and pipe ocean or rain sounds through them. My productivity went way up. At the end of the day I wasn't completely wiped from trying to focus on my work so I was able to have a social life. I am also much less irritable during the day.
Many people have auditory processing and other disorders that cause them to react strongly to distracting noises.
In the end it should be up the to profession programmer to decide what makes him most productive.
Your manager is an idiot.
White Noise (Score:4, Interesting)
I do a lot of work next to the sales team -- mostly that is not a problem as I am fairly able to tune out their prattle.
But something I really NEED to concentrate on something. I find that listening to white noise (ocean waves or something) quickly filters out the conversations around me.
I am completely unable to work with music on -- my preferred working environment is one of pure silence.
Re:Fire your boss for overstepping his authority (Score:2, Interesting)
If you are in the US, the odds are very high that you have a similar set of rights. It is just the way that it is. Don't like it? Go freelance, or start your own operation. But I guarantee you that after you add a few employees, you will probably adopt a similar privacy policy.
I know that most of Europe has much moe expectation of privacy, and also other rights, but here in the USA, not so much.
Re:Just following orders (Score:2, Interesting)
My goal at work is to get fired for bringing things to people's attention.
We got a 5% pay cut because of financial performance, but I don't have anyone under me - I just follow orders. So following orders like a good worker resulted in a pay cut.
We also took a survey to represent the supposed Voice Of the Workforce, and a major action item is to improve things. Like 'management makes good decisions' type questions and 'Id recommend this place to a friend'. We're supposed to fix things because the responses are negative at this point.
The only way is to stand your ground. I have survey results and a pay cut as my explanation if my manager wants to question why I'm causing problems. Following orders got me a pay cut, exposing stupidity will get me either smart coworkers at my current job, or smart coworkers at a job I'll be forced to look for when I get fired. Either way, I'm not going to be responsible for other peoples' decisions. If they don't want you to be a happy employee, you probably don't want to work there anyway.
I'm 0 for 2 on getting fired, meaning I complained enough that I feared getting fired, twice, and they fixed things instead. I'm currently working on a third complaint, will let you know how it goes on Monday.
Re:Programming without music? (Score:3, Interesting)
To paraphrase my AC post elsewhere, let the employer choose if they want to keep you. If they want unhappy employees they can make that choice.
It doesn't give the employer power over you. You can choose to continue working there or quit. If you work there without complaining, that's when you give the company power over you. If you complain, or quit, or do anything else other than simply follow orders, you are taking charge. Giving an ultimatum gives the employer warning that they can choose, while quitting is kind of a passive-aggressive way of dealing with it. Quitting just allows management to say it was a personality conflict, and the new guy will be fine, so no need to change things. High numbers of quitters (attrition) will raise eyebrows, but not until long after you're gone.
Given the above, the only reasonable response is an ultimatum. You need to change things, so let me know if you're going to, or if I'm going to have to leave.
The only down side is giving warning like this gives them a heads up to avoid having you on the layoff list, because contesting unemployment benefits is a lot easier with someone who doesn't want to work there anyway. So it isn't a bargaining chip - it's potentially a life-changing declaration.
Re:Def better with music (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm a musician, and when I compose music I like to listen to people write code.
Actually, since I do a lot of my work in Cycling 74 MAXdsp, which is not unlike working in a visual development system for software or IDE for music and sound, you could say that when I compose music I listen to myself program. Or when I program, I listen to myself write music.
But I absolutely must have a TV on with the sound turned down.
White noise (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:White Noise (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Programming without music? (Score:4, Interesting)
Moderate silence, such as you would find in an empty office building, is full of small, repetitive noises and visuals such as fans, air conditioning, blinking router lights, analog (face) clocks ticking, etc. To this day I am unable to work, concentrate, watch television or even sleep in the same room as an analog clock that ticks. Even if the ticking is so faint you can barely hear it.
Complete silence (isolation room quiet) is a little better, but at that volume I start counting my own hearbeats, breathing, the number of times my teeth touch each other. As many people here can probably contest, the smallest things can cause the biggest distraction. I can hear a CRT television (as rare as they may be now-a-days) turn on through 3 walls and a server clicking from a floor away.
I have found that some music, particularly "house" or "trance" music (without vocals) to be very calming by covering up those subtle distractions while not supplying a new one. The only thing I have EVER found to be more effective than music is a real water fountain. I have tried simulated and even recorded water, but only real water (my previous workplace co-worker had a real miniature one on a table) will work.
Not everyone fits the general results of a widespread "experimental study" and the sooner people start to both understand their own bodies and more importantly the fact that not everyone's is equal, the sooner we can get some real work done.
If a boss ever told me to not use my headphones because they distract me, I would ask him to first turn off the AC, heating and the noisy computer next door that is clicking.
Need headphones even in full offices (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a full office (walls, door) where I work, and I still need to use headphones because of the sound conduction through the wall and suspended tile ceiling, and I only have to deal with one person in the adjacent office, but sometimes it is due to people blabbing out in the hallway. I find that certain types of music are conducive to my concentration if I am programming, and if I am not programming, more types of music are also acceptable.
Re:Constant Noise (Score:3, Interesting)
A human being CAN NOT EVER focus 100% on a single thing for a prolonged time!
A list of people [wikipedia.org] that concentrate 100% for a prolonged period of time (4 hours at a time)... because their lives count on it.
But apparently, you are very far from knowing how to use it.
I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Your rant was all over the place. It didn't even seem like you could focus on one concept in just writing a single post
Been there (Score:2, Interesting)
Show this thread to your boss (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Lyrics distract (Score:4, Interesting)
One place I worked had a guitar we could use when we wanted. Again, no lyrics, just people quietly playing away to the best of their ability, easily drowned out by headphones if necessary.
There is something about the rhythm, pace and harmony of playing on a guitar for half an hour that seemed to help me make the right changes to the code when I went back to the computer. This was a place where the importance of making the right changes (and preferably only the right changes) was well understood.
Re:Programming without music? (Score:1, Interesting)
Like you I like multi hour dance/trance mixes. However I also like to hear new stuff while working. The trouble is that when I really concentrate on the task at hand, I can't hear (or remember) the music anymore! So after the task is done and I listen to the same music again it is still new to me :)
Re:Programming without music? (Score:3, Interesting)
In our office they got us all Plantronics phone headsets. It ain't music, but I can put them on, take the phone off the hook (and hit 'Goodbye' so it goes back on-hook again) and work in relative silence, and everyone thinks I'm on a conference call.
I don't need music, I just need to blank out the ladies in the next cube talking while they're working.
Re:track the difference (Score:1, Interesting)
Turn that around and make him do it. Make him show that there are numbers and studies to prove that it is a distraction. Most people when presented with 'doing work' simply decide it is not worth it. In this case it is the appearance of 'doing something'. Even though he doesn't have to do anything. *HE* personally finds it annoying and is trying to come up with a way to remove *HIS* annoyance. I am seeing lots of this behavior out of many companies. People using the 'economy' as an excuse to be a twat.
I have also seen this method too. 'Show my the HR policy against MP3 devices'. This means he has to work with HR to 'fix' the policy. They will be looking out for the interests of the company. Ticking off the employees who are already being nice and just putting on headphones is usually not in HR's best interest.
Re:Music is bad...sorta (Score:3, Interesting)
I've found that vocal music is just as detrimental as voices chatting. So now I have yet another reason to not play country music. Instrumental music, most classical music, vocal-free electronica, and even heavy metal that manages to drown own their own vocals, works to boost the creative process ... at least for me. I code to everything from Beethoven to Burzum.
Re:Micromanagement (Score:4, Interesting)
It would be even better if every programmer sent out their updated resumes, and those that can find jobs coordinated their start dates for maximum impact. It might send an important message.
Where I work, we still have a couple openings for Java, Python, and/or C++ programmers. Programming experience counts well for lack of the exact language experience. Search skills, like figuring out how to get the resume to me, counts well, too.
Re:They do tend to hinders communication (Score:3, Interesting)
We get around this with IM, Email, and PostIt notes.
Better Answer (Score:3, Interesting)
Fire off a memo/email to the boss and HR every time you're distracted by the ambient noise.
Guy comes to fill the vending machines? That's a memo.
Someone in a nearby cube on the phone? That's a memo.
Boss walks through the cubes talking to someone else? That's a memo.
Make the point that unless you either have a private office with a door, OR SOME METHOD OF ISOLATING THE AMBIENT DISTRACTIONS IN YOUR CUBE, you're going to continue documenting every time you're distracted due to his stupidity.
Concentration (Score:2, Interesting)
I have noticed that music actually hinders my ability to program slightly. I am not as "in the zone" with music playing, but it is MUCH easier to concentrate with a song you can tune out than with people laughing and talking about their weekends (or even work related talk).
People that don't require that level of concentration at work don't (and can't) understand...scheduling meetings, talking on the phone, writing emails, and multitasking is much easier to do without concentration compared to wrapping your head around hundreds of lines or thousands of code and how they all interact. I think programming without concentration would be nearly impossible for me, and more importantly would be dangerous...music avoids that.
Re:Earplugs (Score:1, Interesting)
Be cautious with earplugs.
Prolonged usage in a normal environment which is not too loud may cause hyperacusis [hyperacusis.net] (oversensitivity to sound) and possibly tinnitus (ear ringing) over time.
Basically, by depriving yourself from auditory sensory input, you habituate the part of your brain responsible for hearing to this silence (like a preamplifier, with increased gain) , and eventually, many typical sounds like car brakes will be painfully loud to your ears.
I know all too well about it, since my hyperacusis started exactly like this: I used musician's earplugs at work all day to mute the voices from colleagues and street noise. Recuperating may take many months, and while I've improved somewhat, I am still suffering tinnitus (with an otherwise perfect hearing).
Re:Programming without music? (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess it has to do with everyone's brain being wired differently.
Personally, I can hardly get anything done in silence, hell, I can't even get to sleep easily at night without something in the background. I go to sleep with my tv on as my 'nightlight'...it is at a low level, and I set the timer to turn off in about 1.5 hours. I drop right off to sleep it if it on, but, will toss and turn usually taking longer to crash in a totally dark room that is quiet.
I've almost always been this way, even in school, especially cramming for tests in college, I had to have my CD's playing in the background and/or the tv on. I would load up the changer with 6 disks....and it would play and I'd study...tapping my pen while reading, studying and writing...and a few hours later, I'd pause and notice the room had gotten quiet, and go throw more music on. Often if not music, the tv was on....if I had a quiet room with no distractions, I'd find my mind would wander from the task at hand...I'd start daydreaming or doodling or finding something else to do like learning to juggle (literally happened).
While I'm not quite as bad that way at work any more as I've gotten a bit older, it still goes with work. Heck, in years past, I used to joke that the reason people working around me wore headphones was because "I" did not...hehe...I prefer to play through speakers, it makes it easier for me to concentrate than with earphones in/on. I currently don't have speakers at work (hey, they used to give them out and I used them)...but, now I use my iPods...and have a pair of the high end Shure earphones I use. It helps me tune out things....even the phone ringing, which is nice...I can just periodically check the messages on the phone, get it done at once, and then go back to uninterrupted work.
I find people interrupting my concentration is the biggest distraction....I mean, I'm social and I love to talk with co-workers, and find it hard not to stop and join in when I hear interesting topics (which is most anything with me). I have to plug up and tune out to avoid that...
I bet you didn't know (Score:2, Interesting)
Good call on symphonies. Ballets are even better. (Score:3, Interesting)
What I mean is that in a symphony each movement has its own underlying theme, upon which variations are built. Ballet, on the other hand, tends to carry the same themes through the entire work (although often more than one - usually one for each major character).
I'm very easily distracted by sound and need to choose very carefully what I listen to when I need to concentrate. I always seem to come back to ballet.
Re:Programming without music? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've found the second half of this to be persuasive in the past:
* http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000068.html [joelonsoftware.com]
--
Here's the trouble. We all know that knowledge workers work best by getting into "flow", also known as being "in the zone", where they are fully concentrated on their work and fully tuned out of their environment. They lose track of time and produce great stuff through absolute concentration. This is when they get all of their productive work done. Writers, programmers, scientists, and even basketball players will tell you about being in the zone.
The trouble is, getting into "the zone" is not easy. When you try to measure it, it looks like it takes an average of 15 minutes to start working at maximum productivity. Sometimes, if you're tired or have already done a lot of creative work that day, you just can't get into the zone and you spend the rest of your work day fiddling around, reading the web, playing Tetris.
The other trouble is that it's so easy to get knocked out of the zone. Noise, phone calls, going out for lunch, having to drive 5 minutes to Starbucks for coffee, and interruptions by coworkers -- ESPECIALLY interruptions by coworkers -- all knock you out of the zone. If you take a 1 minute interruption by a coworker asking you a question, and this knocks out your concentration enough that it takes you half an hour to get productive again, your overall productivity is in serious trouble. If you're in a noisy bullpen environment like the type that caffinated dotcoms love to create, with marketing guys screaming on the phone next to programmers, your productivity will plunge as knowledge workers get interrupted time after time and never get into the zone.
With programmers, it's especially hard. Productivity depends on being able to juggle a lot of little details in short term memory all at once. Any kind of interruption can cause these details to come crashing down. When you resume work, you can't remember any of the details (like local variable names you were using, or where you were up to in implementing that search algorithm) and you have to keep looking these things up, which slows you down a lot until you get back up to speed.
Here's the simple algebra. Let's say (as the evidence seems to suggest) that if we interrupt a programmer, even for a minute, we're really blowing away 15 minutes of productivity. For this example, lets put two programmers, Jeff and Mutt, in open cubicles next to each other in a standard Dilbert veal-fattening farm. Mutt can't remember the name of the Unicode version of the strcpy function. He could look it up, which takes 30 seconds, or he could ask Jeff, which takes 15 seconds. Since he's sitting right next to Jeff, he asks Jeff. Jeff gets distracted and loses 15 minutes of productivity (to save Mutt 15 seconds).
Now let's move them into separate offices with walls and doors. Now when Mutt can't remember the name of that function, he could look it up, which still takes 30 seconds, or he could ask Jeff, which now takes 45 seconds and involves standing up (not an easy task given the average physical fitness of programmers!). So he looks it up. So now Mutt loses 30 seconds of productivity, but we save 15 minutes for Jeff.
Anyway, I fully expect that most of you, reading this, will write to say, "what the heck are you doing reading Upside anyway? You get what you deserve". How true. Serves me right.
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Re:Programming without music? (Score:4, Interesting)
Music without vocals is a lot easier to concentrate to. It also needs to be non-novel, where you've listened to it enough that it is familiar to the brain.
Agreed. I tend to listen to video game soundtracks (usually C&C: Red Alert and Total Annihilation) or sometimes the Star Wars or Lord of the Rings movie soundtracks.
Re:White noise / surf ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not all background noise is from outside the ears. I have a condition (tinnitus? sp?) whereby there is a constant ringing in my ears, and so silence has the ability to drive me absolutely batty. I have to run a fan when I sleep, and any time I'm trying to work music is my constant companion. More than that, though, the music keeps me motivated -- I take a lot of energy from the music I listen to.
Re:Programming without music? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm glad I'm not the only one!
I found a few years ago that VG soundtracks were the best coding music for me. It makes sense, though, since VG music is by design not meant to grab your attention but to be a pleasant background layer.
Re:Programming without music? (Score:2, Interesting)
Why not? If it's that what makes you productive it's only benefit to the company... That's real Free Market.
If you're the best, you can get away with many things. Back a few years, I witnessed a (female) customer kneeling down to my supervisor and begging him to fix a bug. I turned around and said: "David, this is your chance to get a blowjob". Oh, sure she became a red like a tomato... Nothing ever happened to me. Seriously.... Falling on your knees before a coworker isn't professional either. But from the talks I heard, what really happened is that she raised some shit and she went nowhere because I was too good to be fired.
Rememeber: if you're good at what you do, you can get away with anything on the workplace.... You just need to know first you're good, that's the tricky part.
Re:Wear earmuffs. (Score:3, Interesting)
Good noise-blocking earmuffs are better than earplugs. If they are of good quality, they will be more comfortable than all but the best headphones. Be careful, because many of these earmuffs are designed to block loud noises like jet engines, while letting in conversations. You do not want something that lets conversations in, but instead, muffs that block everything.
The best set I have found (other than very expensive examples) are the Bilsom Viking V3 earmuffs. See http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/bilsom-viking-v3-1.html [yahoo.net] as one example.
When I am wearing my earmuffs, I can barely hear my phone ring. If someone walks up behind me and talks to me, I do not know they are there.
-Todd
P.s. One more important consideration is one way to block noise is to block air movement. Some inexpensive earmuffs do this, but it causes pressure issues in your ears, similar to pushing your hands against your ears (painful!).
You can tell whether a set of earmuffs is good by putting them on and then pressing the muffs tighter into your head. If the pressure goes up like you are in an airplane, these are cheap. The Vikings will NOT do this.